“This Will Make You INSANELY Rich!” The Next 365 Days Will Make MILLIONAIRES From Nothing | Gary Vee

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Iced Coffee Hour

Episode Title: “This Will Make You INSANELY Rich!” The Next 365 Days Will Make MILLIONAIRES From Nothing | Gary Vee
Release Date: May 12, 2025
Hosts: Graham Stephan & Jack Selby
Guest: Gary Vaynerchuk

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Introduction

In this dynamic episode of The Iced Coffee Hour, hosts Graham Stephan and Jack Selby engage in an in-depth conversation with renowned entrepreneur and social media mogul Gary Vaynerchuk (Gary Vee). The discussion spans a wide array of topics, including perseverance, energy management, burnout, work-life balance, authenticity in the digital age, effective employee management, and the future of AI in society.

Persistence and Quitting

Gary Vaynerchuk opens the conversation by emphasizing the high rate at which people give up just before achieving success. He shares his personal journey, highlighting the significant financial growth he experienced by age 35, where his income surged from $67,000 at 34 to $240,000 at 35.

Gary Vee [00:29]: “The amount of people that quit a week before it was all going to turn is actually quite high... People that are good, that are awesome, that come from the heart, are going to win.”

When asked how to determine when to push through challenges or pivot, Gary offers a straightforward approach:

Gary Vee [22:47]: “Do you like it? And how long can you hold your breath? Those are my two questions to you.”

Energy and Gratitude

A significant portion of the dialogue focuses on Gary's exceptional energy levels and the role of gratitude in maintaining high productivity. He attributes his sustained energy to a combination of natural adrenaline, DNA, and a profound sense of gratitude.

Gary Vee [01:41]: “I thrive on optimism and gratitude. So I'm in a good mood. And when you're in a good mood, you get more done.”

When Graham inquires whether more people practicing gratitude would enhance their daily energy, Gary confidently agrees:

Gary Vee [02:36]: “100%. And not even, like, from a business, I love my business life, but I'm just talking about, like, life... it's better.”

Overcoming Burnout

Gary discusses his experiences with burnout, particularly during his time working extensively for his father's business and later with Wine Library TV. He redefines burnout as sustained unhappiness over a prolonged period, which he has fortunately avoided by being driven and passionate about his endeavors.

Gary Vee [09:46]: “I don't view it as burnout. I view it as ready to move on.”

Work-Life Balance

The conversation delves into the complexities of achieving work-life balance, especially when financial ambitions are high. Gary emphasizes the subjective nature of financial success and work-life balance, encouraging individuals to define these terms for themselves rather than adhering to societal standards.

Gary Vee [08:38]: “I think the amount of time you're willing to sacrifice is your choice... You're allowed to change your strategy.”

Authenticity in the Digital Age

Gary addresses the evolving concept of authenticity, arguing that true authenticity lies in longevity and consistency rather than forced or superficial portrayals. He cautions against the overemphasis of authenticity as a strategy, suggesting that genuine behavior fosters lasting connections.

Gary Vee [24:49]: “Authenticity's always worked. People try to force it all the time, which is the complete opposite of it.”

Effective Employee Management

Discussing employee relations, Gary shares his philosophy on managing a large workforce with empathy and effort. He believes in tailoring incentives to individual needs and maintaining open communication to enhance retention and productivity.

Gary Vee [16:14]: “The actual answer to your question is effort.”

He further elaborates on the importance of reversing engineering employee motivations to create a fulfilling work environment.

The Future of AI and Society

A significant segment of the episode explores Gary's provocative predictions about AI's role in future relationships and societal structures. He foresees a world where humans might form marriages with AI entities, potentially reshaping human interactions and societal norms.

Gary Vee [53:11]: “Your grandkids will marry an AI human.”

He discusses the implications of virtual influencers and AI-driven relationships, contemplating both the potential societal isolation and the possibilities for reducing current feelings of loneliness.

Gary Vee [58:36]: “Humans are the most underestimated, underrated brand and entity in the world.”

Overcoming Societal Challenges

Gary asserts that the root of many societal issues lies in the lack of personal accountability and an overreliance on external factors for one's circumstances. He advocates for a mindset shift toward personal responsibility to unlock one's full potential.

Gary Vee [62:00]: “Over coddling, lack of accountability.”

He emphasizes that individuals hold the key to changing their lives by focusing on what they can control and taking proactive steps to address challenges.

Rapid Fire Insights

As the episode winds down, Gary participates in a rapid-fire segment, offering candid responses to light-hearted questions. Highlights include his disdain for complaining, admiration for Walt Disney, and his guilty pleasure of enjoying cereals like Captain Crunch and Grape Nuts.

Gary Vee [70:18]: “Complaining.”

Closing Remarks

Gary concludes the episode with a heartfelt appreciation for the conversation and acknowledges the importance of maintaining authenticity and self-awareness in both personal and professional spheres. The hosts express their admiration for Gary's insights and the depth of his experience.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Gary Vee [00:29]: “The amount of people that quit a week before it was all going to turn is actually quite high... People that are good, that are awesome, that come from the heart, are going to win.”

• Gary Vee [01:41]: “I thrive on optimism and gratitude. So I'm in a good mood. And when you're in a good mood, you get more done.”

• Gary Vee [02:36]: “100%. And not even, like, from a business, I love my business life, but I'm just talking about, like, life... it's better.”

• Gary Vee [09:46]: “I don't view it as burnout. I view it as ready to move on.”

• Gary Vee [16:14]: “The actual answer to your question is effort.”

• Gary Vee [53:11]: “Your grandkids will marry an AI human.”

• Gary Vee [24:49]: “Authenticity's always worked. People try to force it all the time, which is the complete opposite of it.”

• Gary Vee [62:00]: “Over coddling, lack of accountability.”

• Gary Vee [70:18]: “Complaining.”

Key Takeaways

1. Perseverance Pays Off: Success often comes to those who persist beyond the point where most give up. Personal passion and enjoyment of one's work are crucial drivers.

2. Harnessing Energy through Gratitude: Maintaining a positive outlook and practicing gratitude can significantly enhance productivity and overall well-being.

3. Redefining Burnout: Burnout should be viewed as sustained unhappiness rather than mere exhaustion. Recognizing when to move on is vital for personal growth.

4. Customized Work-Life Balance: Individuals should define their own terms for financial success and work-life balance, avoiding societal pressures.

5. Authenticity over Strategy: Genuine behavior fosters enduring connections, whereas forced authenticity is ineffective.

6. Empathetic Employee Management: Tailoring incentives and maintaining open communication can enhance employee satisfaction and retention.

7. AI's Transformative Role: AI is poised to revolutionize personal relationships and societal structures, presenting both opportunities and challenges.

Conclusion

Gary Vaynerchuk's candid and insightful conversation on The Iced Coffee Hour offers listeners a wealth of knowledge on achieving success, maintaining energy and positivity, managing burnout, fostering authenticity, and navigating the future landscape shaped by AI. His emphasis on personal accountability and self-awareness serves as a powerful reminder that individuals hold the key to unlocking their full potential.

Transcript

[Graham Stephan]

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[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The amount of people that quit a week before it was all going to turn is actually quite high. My answer to this question is, do you like it? And how long can you hold your breath? At 34, I made $67,000 for the year. At 35, I made 240. People that are good, that are awesome, that come from the heart, are going to win. Everybody has become remarkable at pointing fingers. It has become a global pand. When somebody's upset today, where is I suck?

[Jack]

I don't feel sorry for you people.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because you deserve it, because it's the decision you made. My belief is that 99% of people are uncomfortably trickable.

[Jack]

What do you mean?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think most people are so insecure, so short term, that if you just feed them what they need, that you can basically manipulate them into anything you want to do. And this is extremely dangerous to our democracy. I hate that. I think what people need to do is find their selfish place.

[Jack]

First of all, Cole, how do you have so much energy? Is it pure adrenaline or is it caffeine? Do you get like 12 hours of sleep every night? You must not, because you work so much.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, it's funny. So to answer your question, I think it's a combination of two things. I think it's natural adrenaline energy. Like, I think there's a DNA part going on for sure. Hyper schmiper. But I do believe that I have extra energy on top of that because of my emotional and mental perspective. I think I'm incredibly driven by gratitude. It is not lost on me that a day that I wake up where no one that I care about has died or became terminally ill is a good day. I'm very half glass full. I really thrive on optimism and gratitude. So I'm in a good mood. And when you're in a good mood, you get more done. Like if you're dwelling, you're not as productive, you're not as excited, if you're not happy. Like when I'm concerned or challenged, my energy is not as high, I'm not as light.

[Graham Stephan]

So you think if More people practice that they would have more energy throughout the day to get more done.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

100%. And not even, like, from a business, you know, I love my business life, but I'm just talking about, like, life, like, more done as in, like, and just, like, it's better.

[Jack]

How do you consciously and actively practice gratitude? Is it like a journal or is it every morning you get.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's a conversation with myself. Pretty consistent. It's. I think I'm so deep on this. Like, I don't need a journal. I don't need an app. I don't need a. A guru. I don't need a podcast to listen to to get me there. I think I've been on it for so long, in fact, it's a little weird. You catch me at a good time. I've become very introspective. I'm gonna go pretty deep with you on this one. Both my parents lost a parent very, very early on. My mom lost her mom at 5. My dad lost his dad at 15. Recently, I've realized how big of a currency and a backdrop that was to my own childhood. I was pretty petrified to lose one of my parents. Like, for real. Like, you guys are young enough that you probably can remember your childhood pretty solidly. I do not believe you. Or Mike, who's my dude here in the background. I don't think the three of you or the millions that are listening over next decade, I don't think most people thought about their parents dying suddenly multiple times a week in their youth. I did. So I think kind of my curse of that became my gift. By the time I got to 18, I was so grateful that it didn't happen. It's almost like I've been playing with house money since. This has been a really new revelation for me that I've been thinking through. So I think that. I think as I got older and even as a kid, I just knew that I had talent. As a kid, I knew I was talented. I knew I could make people like me. I knew people naturally liked me, so I didn't even have to try to make them like me. Even if I did, I knew that I cared about people. I knew I was good at stuff like hand eye coordination. I always focused on positives. Like, I was good at hand eye coordination, but I wasn't big and strong, but I was like, I'm great at hand eye coordination. Not crying about not being big and strong, but being like, I have better hand eye coordination. Like, I always focused on the positive. It was ingrained in me. I was parented that way. I think my mom has a huge impact on who I am to the. I give her pretty much all the flowers. That's why it's easy for me to talk about myself. I don't think on the record, I don't think I. Every time you're like, gary Vee, you're the best. I'm like, tamara and Sasha are the best. They're the best. They made me. I'm the product. Vee friends, when I build it, I'll take those accolades. I built it, you know, but me, it's so. Yeah, I think I. It's so deep, bro. I think, like, whatever, the monks and the Buddhists and like the deepest on anything, you know, like athletes, like, how do you move like that? They've been doing it their whole. I've been grateful my whole life.

[Jack]

It's interesting that it's the gratitude. One thing that's really admirable, admirable about you is your ability to be so productive and work so hard. I'm curious, for those that want to be successful, what's something that they should be willing to sacrifice that they don't sacrifice?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, the cliche answers. People think the answers go into, like, time with your friends and family. It's real, but that's not kind of like what naturally I felt when you said that. I think I'm going to say something interesting. I think if you're in your perfect pocket, you're not sacrificing. I actually think you're being selfish. I think what people need to do is find their selfish place.

[Graham Stephan]

What about for people, though, who want a balance in addition to, let's say, financial success?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It depends on what financial success is and what balances. This is like, why these are important combos, like real talk.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What's financial success to you right this minute? What do you personally believe financial success is to the average man and woman? How much do they make in a year?

[Graham Stephan]

I would say for the average person, probably gotta be about 250 grand a year. And that would be enough to.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What do you think yours is for you right now, at this point in your life?

[Graham Stephan]

At this point, gosh, I think it's an everlasting treadmill. I don't. Of course it is.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's why I'm notice. I'm asking you the question, right. For you personally, right this minute, what is financial success in a year?

[Graham Stephan]

A dollar amount.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes. Right now, at this point in your.

[Jack]

Like, right this second, Graham doesn't want to say this because I feel like he'll get screwed.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

By the way. By the way. Before, by the way. That's fair. And I want, I want everybody hear this. Whatever you say, it's not too big or too small. This is where we need to give grace to each other, all of us. It's just your subjective feelings at this moment.

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

There's nothing. If he says 14 million, what's going to happen in the comments, like he's a piece of. Because like the average American detached from reality, fair to him. That's where he's at right now, by the way. Let me give you all the preview. He will go up and down even though he has the capacity to make more things change. I'm just asking you in this moment.

[Graham Stephan]

Eventually It'd be awesome. 10 million.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Great. So to me, here's the question.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Next. What do you think the work life balance is on for you? Balance on 10 million a year.

[Graham Stephan]

It would probably be a constant 24 hour a day, seven day a week. Thought struggle for me to just focus on one thing and do that nonstop.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Do you want to do that?

[Graham Stephan]

No.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Okay, that's it. Like this. What? When you start breaking down these questions, like when you say 10 to me, the next question is like, why not 15?

[Graham Stephan]

It just seems like an even round number.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I appreciate it. I think that's right. The other question becomes like, what is balance? Like you're married. Yes. Are you?

[Jack]

No.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right. Let's just go there. That's per. That worked out super well for me.

[Graham Stephan]

Shit's different.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You remember not being married? Yeah. Easier to put more into work.

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Real, then child, then parent sick, then parent not sick, then burnt out after a while of something and just like it's not as fun as it was for six years. Like when I did wine, library, TV every day for five days a week. I loved it all the way until I didn't like it at all. You guys like this right now?

[Graham Stephan]

Love it.

[Jack]

Love it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'll tell you, there's going to be a day where you don't. For real. That's okay.

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's just human. So you know, to answer your question, brother, like, you know, how does one balance it? By being the judge and jury of themselves. Like, whose standard of work life balance am I supposed to achieve to or you or you? Whose definition of financial success am I supposed to. What is it? Is it your 250k for the average or is it the American average of 60, 70, 80k? 250k makes a lot of sense in San Francisco and New York and LA 250k in rural middle of nowhere Tennessee.

[Graham Stephan]

Or what does your current work life balance look like?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

My normal Monday through Friday is 8:30 to 10:00pm that's my normal now. There's times when my son has basketball practice and 7:30 I'll go into that world or Knicks are in the playoffs. Right now I'll go to a Knicks game. But my normal right now is probably nine to nine. Somewhere in the range of 12 hours a day.

[Graham Stephan]

And when was the last time you felt burnt out? How did you overcome that?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I define subjectively burnt out as sustained unhappiness doing the thing. And my definition of sustained is probably a hundred days in a row. I've not had that. Here are my moments of change. In my late 20s or early 30s, I had spent working 150 hours a week building a huge business for my father and was getting paid nothing. In my late from 22 to 28, six years straight, 365 days a year. In my late 20s I started to feel anxiety that I was in a bad spot because I had no money and I was built a huge business and I had nothing to show for it. I was just getting married at the time and I was like, oh my God, I'm poor. I was making $50,000 a year. So. And not that 50,000 is poor, but 50,000 when you actually work 150 hours a week is real bad. You know, it's different if you're working 40 hours. Unless you're getting the bowling team and the weekends and your kids. Right.

[Jack]

Wage your hourly.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Exactly. So I was in a real tough spot that went from like 28 to like 30 to a really interesting time for me and my dad. We had a lot of friction. I was reconciling my feelings, he was reconciling his. And it finally hit an inflection point where I was like, I gotta leave this business and start my own thing. And my brother was graduating college. I started this vaynermedia. So I would say the last time I really felt burnt out Macro was the last years of Wine Library because I felt like the trade wasn't fair. And I don't blame my dad, actually. It's immigrant business. He's like, you're going to inherit it, it's going to be yours. So it was like all those immigrant, you know. The other time I felt burnt out was with Wine Library TV the last 50 episodes. I was like, I'm done with this. I've done this. It's five days a week, five years, I'm done. DailyVee put me on the map in a lot of ways for a lot of people.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah, that's what I remember.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, even now when the guys want to film me, I'm, like, so used to not being filmed, it feels weird. Whereas for the first year after DailyVee, it felt weird to not be filmed. There's that. So projects feel, like, burnt out, but I don't feel burnt out. I don't feel, like, soulless or sad.

[Graham Stephan]

It sounds like, though, you feel burnt out when you've accomplished everything that you've set out for.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. And I'll be honest with you, I really don't view it as burnt out. I view it as, like, ready to move on.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think words have gotten weird. Like, I think a lot of people use the. Like, weaponize the word anxiety when they're inconvenienced. I think we've created words like imposter syndrome to make the word insecure or ick.

[Jack]

Use the word ick.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So I really, genuinely do not associate with burnout. I think there's been moments where I was done.

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

To your point. But I don't like burnout. To me, seems like I define burnout as emotionally struggling.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

I like how you break down what a word actually means. It reminds me of Jordan Peterson or reminds me of Alex Hormozi. You know who that is. I'm on the podcast recently. He said that he doesn't like to use words like burnout because he prefers to use words in observable reality.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And that's what you did. You broke down burnout to be, like. I consider it as sustained, you know, displeasure with something for a hundred days.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think words. I think that's interesting insight. I think words have been weaponized. Words have been.

[Jack]

It's too ambiguous. It's subjective. But if you break it down into something that's observable, then it actually is.

[Graham Stephan]

Speaking of words, a popular one lately is Quiet quitting.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Do you feel like this is a way for people to support a healthy boundary, or is it something that people use as an excuse for just both not working hard?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, both. Or just, like, cheating the system? Like, people will cheat the system if they can if they don't respect or like the system. Like, I don't worry about people vayner that way because I think we like them too much and do the right things. And I know people do, but it's not a sustained issue for us. But I think another company that doesn't give a about their employees have it at scale because what you put in is what you get out.

[Graham Stephan]

So do you think it's a problem with the employer in those situations, not the employee?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I do. I'm going to say it again. We have 2,000 plus employees here at VaynerX. There are definitely dozens and dozens that are doing all sorts of that I would not be happy about because we no longer work in a five day like you can like. Right. But I'm not crippled by it because it's inconceivable that it's at scale cause we're too productive as an organization. And I just know what we do for our employees, which is we're not Mother Teresa, but we like, we have, we have humanity. I think, I think if corporations had more humanity, they would win.

[Graham Stephan]

What's a way that you would recommend they incentivize their employees to work harder.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

By reverse engineering them individually?

[Graham Stephan]

Although really quick. Before we go into that, you have to ask yourself the question, what makes a leader stand out? Because it's not just about taking charge, but about setting new standards and embracing bold moves. That's why if you lead by example and live with passion, then our our sponsor, the Range Rover Sport is made for you. Every model of the Range Rover Sport offers a unique blend of dynamic sophistication and sporting luxury. It's where refined elegance meets visceral power. With focused on road performance and world renowned off road capability, this vehicle rises to every occasion.

[Jack]

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[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Some employees want more money.

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Some people want a new title. Some people want more work life balance. Some people want to work in a different department. We're in constant I and I don't like saying I but I'm going to say because I dictate this from the top, I more than even my direct reports and their direct reports. And now as I keep putting more pressure on this, we do a pretty darn good job of being open for business for the other person. Because the more we make it awesome. The more they'll stay, the more retention I have, the faster I think we can go. I think businesses like sports, I think speed matters.

[Graham Stephan]

And how do you do that at scale with so many employees?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Effort. Effort. Like it's just something I give a shit about.

[Graham Stephan]

And for people, you know, like.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, like. Like, you know, you'll find it so interesting. It's. It's an interest. The reason I'm please double clicking is I want to bring value to the audience and I felt I left it kind of high, but. But I'll tell you why I left it high and why I'm gonna go low now. If you care about something, you will do it. The end. Like the actual answer to your question is effort.

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Underneath that. Allocating time in my schedule for one on ones using the people that have been here for a decade and deploying them on places I can't get to that I know needs humans. You know what I mean? Like it takes up my mind time. This may actually. Actually this is really cool. You'll find this interesting because of what you guys do and I have a sense of how you're paying attention. Both of you know, I've been less Gary VEED out the last 12 to 18 months in the personal brand game. There's other people that have popped like I've been operating. This is actually me now deciding I'm going back into effort of Gary Vee. So I guarantee people will feel me around more and know more of me and feel like Gary Vee is everywhere more in 26 than in 24 and 25. Because in 24 and 25 I operated Vayner X and V friends effort.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Jack]

What do you think about potential overexposure? Does that ever bother you in terms not achievable?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You don't think it's possible who's overexposed?

[Jack]

I think it depends. I think if. If you have a story and you go on 30 podcasts.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Generally speaking, each performance of, you know, each unique podcast will start to dwindle because the story gets redundant. People have heard it enough times.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're looking at it from the wrong angle. You're in the game of knowing what the going on right now. To you it'll become redundant. Right.

[Jack]

But to the the guest on the show, it's still new eyeballs.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The overlaps are there. And by the way, here's how it's going to play out. Okay. By the way, back to me, I'm going to be out and about. Okay. Gary Vee showing up on all the same. Let me hear. I haven't heard. Ironically, some people, like, I haven't heard, like, probably talk about the same. But let me say, oh, some new. Then they go and listen. A second week later, I'm on something else. They're like, let me listen again. Pretty similar to what he just did with coffee. You know, like. And then the third time I show up in the results of, like, the new podcast, they're like, I'm not going to listen. They're not. I'm not getting overexposed. They've gotten their fulfillment. But every one of these shows has different audiences. Not to mention, this will resonate for you guys because you had a journey of consuming my content. We also like the greatest hits from our favorite artists like Elton John and the Rolling Stones and Billy Joel are still playing the same.

[Graham Stephan]

But there is something to be said about people or bands or brands who only make an appearance every now and then. And it's such a big special occasion. Like My chemical romance taken 20 years off and then coming back once, and that's like a big hit event.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Why are we so addicted to. Or what about. And you're right.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And people don't get overexposed that have consistent awareness. And Bill Brand, listen, I've been one of the most prolific public figures in social media, which is the medium of dominance today. An ungodly amount of people know me. I'm stunned every time I'm outside. A much bigger group does not.

[Graham Stephan]

It's interesting from our perspective because I've started posting less, but the less I post now, the more views each video.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Gets, of course, because it's sitting there longer. Correct.

[Graham Stephan]

But it's also a bit more special when it's like once a week or once every other week.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're choosing ideology.

[Jack]

I actually disagree with that. I think your net.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Your net awareness is down.

[Jack]

You've increased your. Your barrier to post. Like, it needs to be a more pressing event. It needs to be a bigger deal. And so for that, it probably raises the average.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But by the way, you're allowed. And by the way, you may want less people to know, but be impacted deeper but by.

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But people are like, gary, get more views. I'm like, no, like, but what about your gross views for the month?

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So by the way, everyone's allowed. You're allowed to be Marlon Brando and you're allowed to be Arnold Schwarzenegger. Like, you know, like, or Whoever's. That was the 80s of, like, being in every movie or like, you're Kevin Hart. Yeah, you're allowed to be Kevin Hart and you're allowed to be, you know, a Once in a Blue Moon. They're both, they both work. My answer is and, and. But I want everyone to hear this right now. They're like, oh yeah, I'm more that. I'm more like you, not like Gary. But then, but what about you're allowed to be both versions, by the way. I'm just living through me being less content out there, even though my less is like quite a bit, by the way. I may wake up in a year and get into the concept of one post a month and do that for a year and then be like, that was awesome. And be like that. I'm back to volume at scale. The restrictions we put on ourselves is fascinating to me. So like, for me, when I hear that, I'm like, that's awesome. Like, enjoy this chapter and you'll make decisions. If this works for you. It doesn't. And you're also allowed to change your strategy.

[Graham Stephan]

Now for people who are on that entrepreneurial journey, how do you know or how do you dictate when to push through something versus when to quit and try something different? Now, one of the things that Gary Vaynerchuk really reinforced in this episode is that sometimes you just have to go for it. You have to stop overthinking things. And when it comes to starting a business, the first thing you have to do is take action. And that starts with making sure it's set up properly.

[Jack]

One of the questions we get asked all the time is, how do you actually start a business? Like, do I need an S Corp, do I need an llc? And where do I even go to create one of those? Well, I can honestly say I've personally used the sponsor of today's video, Bizee. And the process of creating a business couldn't have been any easier. Setting up my LLC took less than 10 minutes, which is just absolutely crazy. And it felt great knowing everything was being filed properly and professionally.

[Graham Stephan]

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[Jack]

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[Graham Stephan]

How do you know or how do you dictate when to push through something versus when to. When to quit and try something different?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Only God knows. The amount of people that quit a week before it was all going to turn is actually quite high in the scheme of the last hundred years. The amount of people that right now continue to do something that is based on nothing but delusion is even higher. My answer to this question is, do you like it?

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And how long can you hold your breath? Those are my two questions to you. If, if this, if we were three brothers and we're just jamming on this for real, not on a podcast, I'd be like, do you like it? How long can you hold your breath?

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's it. That's the answer to that question.

[Jack]

It's interesting. So for this podcast, obviously for any guests we have on the show, we do copious amounts of research. And so I feel like I've listened to you for I don't even know how many tens of hours in the past, you know, couple weeks easily. But I'm curious because you seem different now than in the previous things I've seen you on. Like, you seem way more introspective, way more like, subjective. Like you've been more meta.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, do you know why?

[Jack]

Why?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because your guy's energy is that I'm chameleon.

[Graham Stephan]

I feel like you've been on some pretty relaxed podcasts though. Like, you did one recently with a, with a veteran that I saw that I felt was pretty laid back.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I would say that what I'm feeling right now while I'm doing this is I really respect your audience and I'm pushing myself to bring as much value as I can, which is what I do in every setting, intuitively. In a relaxed podcast, sometimes I think energy is the highest value. I'm going on my intuition on what I think could bring the most value. And I think, and I also, to your point, I think life is like day to day as well. Like, I'm also fresh. I don't know what podcast you're talking about and like, when they came out, when they were filmed, but because I haven't been put it on so many podcasts so often for so long lately, I do feel a little fresh and When I'm fresh, it takes me down new paths too.

[Graham Stephan]

That's interesting. I think when it comes to social media too, I think people really value authenticity.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Do you feel like now authenticity is almost becoming like a strategy where people are really like over emphasizing authenticity?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I have good news. Like you can go back to interviews I did in 2007 on YouTube and that was the buzzword of 2007. Social. Yeah. I think authenticity's always worked. I think people try to force it all the time, which is the complete opposite of it. And I think there's the way to really judge authenticity is longevity. I think the people that try to fake authenticity do not have very long plays.

[Graham Stephan]

How much is there out there that you choose publicly not to talk about? Because you're pretty open about quite a few things. And how do you dictate what you are public about versus what you're not?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

My private life is something I don't talk about. I always thought that I was too important because I kind of had a sense early on that I was gonna. It was gonna work. I just knew, you know, when you know?

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, just knew. So I was like, let me be thoughtful about this. Like, if I get like, actually, this is like 2006. I'm like, if I get actually famous, like, what. What is the worry about that? It's like, oh, privacy is valuable. Plus, actually, actually, you know what? That might even be. That might not even be fully authentic. I am inherently private, which is wild, right? But like, yeah, I mean, I think talking about your passions or ideas or business, that feels like public domain. But like my children or my relationships or I don't know, like, you know.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So I talk about my parents a lot because it's a framework to like stuff, but it's not like I'm telling you like, what's going on in their lives or like where, like, I'm not in reality TV mod, so that was conscious. Things like politics or religion or things that are a little spicier, I don't talk about them because it's. Because I don't love to contribute from a place of opinion. I like to come from a place of observation. So if I talk about politics, my observation is that the opposite sides of every issue weaponize fear to get people into a frenzy. And that's it. That's my observation. It's like uncomfortably boring.

[Graham Stephan]

Do you recommend other influencers keep certain parts of their lives private as well?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think people have to reverse engineer their truth, you know, like, I don't have real Hunger for fame. If someone has intrinsic deep value and hunger for fame, giving the world your personal life is one of the clear paths. I don't really want to deploy my judgment on someone else's journey.

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So no, I don't. I recommend people being self. Aware. What are some of the things I recommend? People being self aware. And I recommend. I just said this earlier and I saw you picking up on this. I also recommend people having the ability to change their mind. Like right now, if you're listening right now, I'll be like, yeah, man, I am pouring out my children too much. And I'm starting to see the negatives of that. Like my four year old daughter was like stopped in a park by somebody the other day because I'm doing that. Well, you're allowed to change. People struggle with change like that. Like this. A lot of the genre of this convo right now. I want people to have the strength to change their mind because that really is liberating to allow you to do a lot of.

[Graham Stephan]

What do you think holds people back from change? Is it fear?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Course of judgment from other human beings? Insecurity is the poison that navigates our world.

[Jack]

What are you insecure about?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

In my youth I was insecure about girls rejecting me.

[Jack]

Like, did you get rejected or something?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, because back to not doing like, I didn't ask out a lot of girls in high school and college that I wanted to cause I was fearful of the rejection in a world where like I was like pretty charismatic and had my game together in a way. Like, you know, as you get older, especially because I became a public figure. The amount of like when I first started happening, the amount of girls that reach out to me, like, why didn't you ask me out? And like, and like I could be grounded in the fact that I don't think they were saying that now because this was even happening. Like not the Gary Vee, you know now like even when the wine thing happened, which meant nothing to nobody, it was just like reconnecting. Like so that was a part of my life that I. That was very clear in fear. I feared most basic adolescence things. I feared to ride a bike. I didn't want to skin my knee. I feared swimming, I didn't want to drown. I feared those two things very heavily. But by comparing like, I was a late bloomer in a lot of ways that way. But.

[Jack]

But what are you insecure about now?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Not much. What am I insecure about now? Deep, like. Like, and this will probably go into territory of things I don't want to share. But, like, let me say it this way. I. I'll say it in a way that I feel comfortable because I want to answer it and not. Not answer it. The number one thing I probably fear now is I want to be as good of a father as I possibly can. And so that's very top of my list. Like, am I achieving that? I'm scared about things that I haven't been able to get to the place where I wanted to.

[Graham Stephan]

What do you think could hold you back from that?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Being able. The thing that I've always struggled with, historically, it's a wild one. My greatest weakness, my kryptonite. In a world where I was luck of the draw, gifted with a ton of circumstances and a lot of other things, and then put in a lot of work and feel very comfortable in that was I'm not canderous with people I love. Like, my lack of candor, it blows people away.

[Jack]

Like, that doesn't make sense.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'll explain. I don't give a what you two think of me. I do not care what anyone who's listening cares. I care very deeply. I care more of what Mike thinks about me than you guys and anybody listening. And he's a young employee in my life, and I care more about what Kaylin, who's worked here for 13 years, feels than Mike. But you start getting into my children and my parents. The more I love you, the more I care about how you feel. And I was raised by a mother who was not canderous, who had such gift of gab and charisma and personality, too, that she could just get to the result without making conflict. Got it. I also was raised by a father who was ridiculous with conflict and looked for conflict at every point. So I had two very opposite parents, and I was formed in a way where I viewed candor as creating fear for someone, because I've always had leverage. For most of my life, I have been the financial and emotional leader of my life, meaning me and everybody around me. So when you have leverage and you're deploying candor, there's a lot that comes with that. When you're telling an employee that, bro, you're not good at your job, my brain goes into Mike, walks out of here and starts to go to LinkedIn, starts to cry, starts to go do drugs, and I'm gonna lose my job, I just created fear. I had to have a very tough chapter in my life about five to seven years ago when I realized this was my kryptonite. And What I was actually doing was creating fear because people would have to get fired when you're running a company. I would have to break up with girls if I didn't like them anymore. And what people started to understand was they didn't know where they stood with me. And that became the ultimate fear. Very humbling moment in my mid-40s.

[Graham Stephan]

And how did you navigate that? And how do you break into just being open and honest with people without creating fear?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

All of our vulnerabilities are things we can't see. I'm really fortunate with self awareness and paying attention, but I couldn't see the candor thing. Once it became obvious to me, both with my employees and some of my personal relationships, I was like, oh, oh. And I'm talking, like, looking myself in the mirror, brushing my teeth and looking at my eyes and being like, dude, my inner dialogue is really cool. Like, me and me are good, you know, I really just went there. I was like, dude, you suck at this, man. Like, and this is gonna ruin your life.

[Graham Stephan]

Was there a specific moment that was.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like a wake up combination, you know, not to go too far, but it was a combination of things going on at work, which I'm comfortable with, which was, I love my employees. Super heavy. There was just enough employees and I knew why they were mad at me that were running around the world being like, all I care about is anyone who knows me to think I'm a decent man. Having employees that were running around the world being like, Gary Vee was like, this is wrong. The only ones that were saying Gary Vee were people that were consistently underperforming. But I didn't have the ability to over communicate it and then would pull the rug from underneath them. It was black and white on my subjective opinion. Maybe they were performing and I was wrong. But that's, you know, that's the judge and the jury when you own a business, right?

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I was like, that sucks. I got to fix that. And then things in my personal life, which I'm less comfortable sharing. But ultimately I was like, look, I've got to fix this. And it's hard, bro. Like, you're in pretty good shape. I don't know if you've always been or not. I'm in better shape than I've been historically. Like. Like it's work.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, I was in Toronto for a board meeting meeting last night. I landed last night at midnight. I was in the gym at 6am this morning. In the gym. I landed at midnight in the gym, not working out, having one on one basketball coach practice. Because my son's gotten so good at basketball, I think he's about to beat me one on one. And I'm so scared of that that I literally had one on one basketball practice this morning. And you have to put in the work to be able to be better. And so I had a and I continue to practice candor right now and I'm still a 5 out of 10. But that jump from 1 to 5 has closed a lot of wounds and vulnerabilities.

[Graham Stephan]

Who do you go to for advice?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The truth is no one, which is a great gift and a great weakness.

[Graham Stephan]

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[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What I do when I'm in a place of thought is go into more of a cocoon. I'm actually talking and advising and jamming. Like if we were like, if we hung out, if we like knew each other, we'd have dinner, we'd have these kind of dinners. Different because we're a podcast. But it would be this. I'm always thinking and philosophizing and strategizing and vulnerable and like I'm living and I'm taking it like, it's almost like advice is happening all the time. But when it's in the moment that you're asking where I'm like really thinking through something, I weirdly do the reverse. I think most people don't advice every day and then when they have a problem, go for advice. I'm the reverse. I'm like constantly like advising. But then when something's really important, I go into cocoon and I'm in my own and I think it through.

[Jack]

How do people improve self awareness? It seems like, like you were saying, the ability to be dynamic and change your opinion, change your mind, change your beliefs is one of the best ways that you can improve your overall life. I think that is self awareness is required for that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think therapy is good. I think going to therapy and having another human being who's professionally trained try to throw some things at you really is good. I Think what I've done is I think there's a very big relationship between humility and self awareness. So I have a very big thesis that humans are not trickable. And then I have another thesis that humans are the most trickable. So they break it down. My belief is that 99% of people are uncomfortably trickable and that's how the world works.

[Jack]

What do you mean?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think most people are so insecure, so short term, so selfish that if you just feed them what they need that you can basically manipulate them into anything you want to do. It's what politics does, it's what businesses do. It's like what life is. I hate that. What I like is trying to win with the 1% that are the reverse. And those people are completely the reverse. They're completely not trickable. And I think when you understand that, what I just said, or if you believe it and whether my percentages are right, maybe it's 80, 20, but like the concept that the masses are in this one place and then there's a different group of people that you actually want to be friends with that you actually want to know that it's the actual thing that if you think that you'll constantly be in a place of humility and self, you know, analyzation, and you're humble, you're listening, and I think there's something there in a real way to what you're asking. I think surrounding yourself with the right type of people has the potential to create a lot of self awareness.

[Jack]

And what would be the main qualities of someone who is trickable versus non trickable? Like, is it an intelligence thing?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I believe it's a security thing. I think it's confidence versus insecurity. I have come to. I turned 50 in November. Fun number, you know, like, how old are you guys?

[Jack]

26.

[Graham Stephan]

I'm 35.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, like even at, you know, you're a straight baby, but even at 35. Right. At 35, you know, back to like my life, you think about 10 mil. I think this will be very exciting for you.

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And I hope it's very exciting. More importantly to the audience. At 34, I made $67,000 for the year. Yeah, that's why I believe it. That's why you hear so much Gary Vee about Be patient.

[Jack]

What'd you make at 35?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

35 was when I started doing this and I just signed a book deal, So I got 100k for crush it. I made like probably 2:40.

[Jack]

Do you think that you needed to have the actual Accolades to play off of that confidence or did the confidence exist from the beginning to the end?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Beginning to the end. DNA, parenting circumstance.

[Jack]

You never questioned your aptitude, you never questioned business?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No. Like I said earlier, what's, what's a child's childhood? Does the opposite sex like you? That was a third of my whole life. So I had plenty of insecurity there. Sports, right? I was good early on because I have crazy hand eye coordination. I got worse as we got into middle school because speed, height, power, strength mattered. So that was off school. Big one, right? Kids self esteem in school, right? Good grades, smart. Bad grades, dumb. Especially if you're almost 50. You grew up in a different world. I'm 25 years ahead of you that way. 23 years ahead of you. Teachers told me I was an idiot, that I was going to be a loser. These are grown ups telling you to your face you're going to be a loser. So I had plenty of things that could be insecurities. I just had the most important things, right? 1. I had a mother who parented me in a way that made me believe in myself. But she didn't do what modern parents are doing, which is create a delusion. She said, you're a good dude, you're good at, you've got strengths. But when I had shortcomings, I had ramifications, I had consequences.

[Graham Stephan]

How do you try to instill those same qualities in your children?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

By doing that, by telling them the truth. By cheering for things that are good. Like are they nice people, are they not entitled? But I can't do one of the most important parts. Environment. I did grow up in lower middle class neighborhoods in Jersey. They are growing up very wealthy.

[Graham Stephan]

How do you think that's gonna change their perspective? Or the fear that they can't live up to what you've accomplished?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That part I feel good about because I create almost. No. They may have their own version, but one of the great mistakes a parent that is successful makes is ask their child to live up to their. I do not have. The problem is there's too many people that are successful that are actually insecure. So then they ask their children to do things because they care what other people think about their children's accomplishments. On the record, on this podcast, I do not give a about what people think about what my children do for a living. So my children will have the luxury of not having a father that wants them to do what? Live up to my legacy. Me. I'm their dad. I just want them to be happy the way I'm happy. And whether they're entrepreneurs like me and what makes them happy is to build Mazel tov. If they. If what makes them happy is to give away all the money I made because that somehow makes them feel better for being rich kids. And that's what they see the world as. As long as they're happy. Not that that's some sort of poisonous up thing. Like I just am very focused on do they enjoy their life, Are they productive? But like environment so can't be fake.

[Graham Stephan]

How close is happiness linked to being productive? Because we had Grant Cardone on about year ago and with his daughter in the room, he said he doesn't want her to be happy. He wants her to be productive. And if she's productive by default, she's going to be happy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, look, I think every parent is allowed to see the world how they want. I'm also a buyer of productivity. But productive is defined by different metrics. What is productive is productive. Making a million dollars a year, ten hundred is productivity. Knowing that you were born into luxury and thus you give your life's work to give back to humanity and everything in between. I don't know. But yes. I do not think waking up in the morning and having nothing to do leads to anything but bad.

[Graham Stephan]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But what one defines as productive I think is different for every human.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

For example, I have a lot of ways to maximize for a lot more wealth than I have. That's just not where I'm at. I feel like I'm being more productive by leaving good deposits, by spending a lot of time on Gary Vee and now veefriends. My Pokemon Sesame street thing feels like I'm gonna be able to do both. I can be selfish and selfless. I can build one of the biggest intellectual properties of all time, which is very, very valuable. But I also can get these characters so popular that I can start getting to kids younger and instilling good virtues into them. What's more productive? Yeah, my income statement this year or the impact I made on alpha dudes not being complete dick faces? What's more productive? How much money I made or the fact that I've gained muscle mass and that injury I got in my dad's liquor store with my left glute. Now that I've been able to actually get my mind muscle right and I'm fixing it and I have better life quality, which who decides? Productivity.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

If you make $43 million a year, but you're human behaviors of alcohol and eating and gluttony and all this stuff leads to you dying two years later. Were you productive in the 43rd year where you made all that money? Or because you're not productive at 45 because you're dead? So I think the definition of But I agree with the macro thesis.

[Graham Stephan]

Got it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I do believe in productivity. I think who gets to define productivity? My answer is you get to define it and then you get to change your mind. If you want to go from 20 to 30 and eat Doritos all day and build an empire, good. And then 30 to 40 is pure love and enjoying those, knock yourself out. But don't do it for someone else. And don't do it for the cheering. Because if you're doing it for the cheering when they're booing, you're dead.

[Graham Stephan]

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[Jack]

Shopify is basically your all in one business partner and they power millions of businesses worldwide, from major brands like Mattel and Gymshark to entrepreneurs just getting started. Fun fact, if you've ever shopped online in the us, there's a really good chance it was through Shopify because they power about 10% of all American e commerce.

[Graham Stephan]

What's great about Shopify is that they offer you a complete design studio with hundreds of ready to use templates to build a beautiful online store that perfectly matches your brand. And even better, there's no coding required. Their AI tools also help you write product descriptions or enhance your product photos.

[Jack]

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[Graham Stephan]

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[Jack]

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[Graham Stephan]

Thank you so much to Shopify for sponsoring this episode. One of the things I've really admired about you is that you've been able to almost see and predict the future of what's going to be happening when it comes to social media. And I remember you saying in like 2019 or 2018 about TikTok.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Graham Stephan]

And I remember starting to post on TikTok because of what you were saying.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Thank you.

[Graham Stephan]

Back in like 2018 or 2019, I think my first TikTok. What are you seeing now as the future landscape for business or for marketing or for getting yourself out there? I know you've mentioned I got a ton of TikTok shop. Live shop.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, love shop. Obsessed with live shopping. If you're listening right now, you sell stuff. You need to go to whatnot and TikTok shop and start selling ASAP. The QVC application of social media is here in the West. It's been going on in China for 10 years. Do it do it. The acceleration of organic is also on my mind. I could not speak more to my belief of non overexposure volume. Creative for relevance for different consumers. For example, you have Gary Vee on now your clip with me and you on your social. If the next post is you with a female entrepreneur in her 80s, that's going to hit different audiences, different subjects we're going to talk about in this podcast. So relevance at scale across all seven platforms. Facebook proper. I'm obsessed. If you want to go, go. Very nerdy face. Are you guys posting a lot on Facebook regular?

[Graham Stephan]

We've done it in the past, so.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That was the perfect answer.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You guys are about to be happy with Gary Vee again. You're going to walk the out of here. Look me in the face and really understand this. This podcast will explode if you get serious about posting multiple times a day on Facebook Organic. Facebook organic.

[Jack]

Are you talking clips, like 4 to 12 minute clips? Are you talking about full length podcast? Are you talking about shorts?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. Yep.

[Jack]

Vertical. So just everything.

[Graham Stephan]

I'll be honest with you. What happened to our Facebook was that it got completely demonetized and it's been shut down basically for a year and a half because they deemed it as reused content, even though it was our original content. And reaching anybody at Facebook is a business impossible.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Start another page.

[Graham Stephan]

Oh, we had 200 something 300,000 followers on it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Who gives a.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That would be like saying I had $200,000. I went to Atlantic City, I lost all the money, so I'm not going to make more money.

[Graham Stephan]

We did that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I want you to start page.

[Graham Stephan]

But they shut that one, the new one down too do for reused content. It was so it was something on our page. We've, we've ex. I don't want to go too much into it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, we don't have to waste. This is actually going to be valuable to a lot of people. Start a brand new one with a separate email because maybe it was some technicality. If that gets shut down, then maybe something bigger. But just because you had 200. First of all, followers don't matter anymore. You know that, right?

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Do you? Yeah. Like literally.

[Jack]

I think they matter a little bit.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

They do, you're right.

[Jack]

But not as much as they did back in the day.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It was. Oh yeah, true by the way. And it is way on its way to being to a place where it's completely not going to matter. We are fully no longer in social media. We are fully in interest media. We're fully in interest Media, social media, Word social. Who you hang out with, who you follow. Like, we don't see that now. I actually think all the social networks should create two feeds. 100% guaranteed view rates from who you. You care about, maybe limiting that. There was a great app that I was an investor in called Path years ago that was made by Dave Morin, a great entrepreneur who was an early Facebook employee. His app was called Path. He basically made an Instagram. He made Instagram before Instagram, where he came out the same time. I don't recall. But you could only have 145 or 120 or 150. I don't remember. It was based on a law of, like, how many relationships can a human have? I don't remember the name, but you could only have 150 followers. It was awesome, right? Because you would only follow who you really want to follow. I think if Facebook implemented on Instagram and Facebook, and if TikTok implemented one feed, that is a hundred people max, but you see every post from them and the other one, fully interest, fully interest, that that's the killer app. That's what I would build right now.

[Jack]

Another thing that allows virtual influencers.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

To answer your question, I think the rise of virtual influencers is gonna be one of the biggest things over the next five years. I think you guys should create humans that promote your shit.

[Jack]

Graham and I, I don't think that's possible with two males.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, I understand that part the old way. I think Graham and you should hire a company and actually make your third host a female who's not a real person who's involved in your content, promoting your show, selling your product. I think. I think every human is going to be in the IP business. In 2006, 7, I predicted that everybody would be in social media. And I got really laughed at because it was like, nobody was on it and everybody thought it was stupid. Like, who cares if you're walking the dog? Like, Twitter used to get on. Like, why would you tweet like you're eating pizza? Who gives a. You understand, you're young and you were too young for this. Like, the concept of sharing your thoughts was, like, not acceptable. That was relegated for people on TV in certain programs. This is a new phenomenon. The fact that everybody thinks, like, I'm out there. I believe every person's in the intellectual property business. I believe that within a decade, many people, millions of people will own virtual people and monetize them the way that Disney monetizes Mickey Mouse.

[Graham Stephan]

So I've seen some of these with, like, fake only fans.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Correct.

[Graham Stephan]

Where they've just created Avatar.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right. And if you look at only fans and you know the sex industry, always porn only they're always. And obviously only fans. Is now broading out. But, like, they're always ahead.

[Graham Stephan]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You. If you've seen that, you probably also know that a year ago, those girls predominantly looked really fake. I'm gonna say something to you right now. You have consumed a piece of content on Instagram that is an AI person and your eyes and brain.

[Graham Stephan]

100%. Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Already.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Now you're still consuming a lot in there. That is clearly fake. A lot better than it looked a year ago. And in three years, not one human's gonna know the difference.

[Graham Stephan]

I believe it. I saw on Twitter there's a whole thread about this guy making $10,000 a month in profit from an AI character that he made, that he's posting on Instagram and doing brand deals.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right.

[Graham Stephan]

With this whole character.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right. That's a scale already and hasn't even.

[Jack]

Started on the topic of AI. What are your top three most insane AI predictions?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That your grandkids will marry an AI human.

[Jack]

What's your conviction level on that?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

100%.

[Jack]

That they're going to marry an AI.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Your grandchild is going to marry an AI human.

[Graham Stephan]

So this is what we've been talking about. I think people are going to have relationships, fully AI. Boyfriend, girlfriends. I think it's going to be indistinguishable.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You mean be Fox, Right? The thing like from that movie. You saw that?

[Graham Stephan]

No, Netflix.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like the AI Robo.

[Jack]

I talk about she or her or whatever.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Not that one. There was a Megan Fox one that just came out. Nonetheless, they're all the same. Same. I believe a robot that is fully AI will marry a human and vice versa. For real. In your lifetime at scale.

[Jack]

And when you say an AI, does that mean like a physical body of a robot? So you're saying that the bodies will get so good that it will look like you. And like, I could.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I don't know if you know this, but people have sex with sex dolls. What?

[Graham Stephan]

Jack does that. That explains what that thing is.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And obviously, like, that is, like, super taboo. And it's 2025 and I. I'm not educated on it, though. I don't, like. I don't judge anyone who does. But my intuition is that in 20 years, because the AI can power the robot and because of where we're going and what's going on, that that's fully.

[Graham Stephan]

See, I've said the same thing because certain AIs people are getting really attached to them. Just like back and forth.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What the. What do you think putting online dating is? That's the same. You know that, right?

[Graham Stephan]

But I'm like, no, no.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

People fall in love on text. Like people on Tinder or Raya. After three hours of texting back and forth fall in love. Then the physical part happens.

[Graham Stephan]

So what is this going to do to society if we're all just with little robots?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Society looks like right now to a caveman. If we dug up a caveman.

[Graham Stephan]

But do you think this is just population collapse? That just people are not going to reproduce?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Maybe, but probably not fully. Because everyone thinks an or. Just because I'm a robot doesn't mean I'm not willing to a human.

[Jack]

So you think.

[Graham Stephan]

But if it's indiscriming.

[Jack]

You think it would be non exclusive relationships? What you think it would be non exclusive relationships?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Actually, you know, it's funny, I've thought about this. I actually think AI robots may save marriages. Like I've been thinking about that a lot, which is like, does a couple introduce just like real couples introduce swinging and another partner? Now is it even better to introduce an AI robot that may help whatever sexual or emotional things are going on in that relationship to become an offsetting contributor to America? One could argue this was gonna be my second one that AI will be the reason marriage increases longevity and decreases divorce.

[Graham Stephan]

I would almost argue that it would be the reason why people just wouldn't get married because you would just have.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

This AI but it might be both. Both can exist in that scenario.

[Jack]

I feel like the word of the day is and. And not a sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I would tell you that, you know, as people continue to dissect everybody, I have a feeling people will like I'm starting to learn. I figured out and I'm sure people that will are for whatever weird reason interested in dissecting me. Yes and versus or is foundationally to why I'm happy and successful. Foundational. I actually can't see the word. I can't see the world in any other way. It's always. And everything to me is maybe yes and no are both vulnerabilities. You know that, right? Right.

[Graham Stephan]

I mean things are going to be absolutes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes and no are vulnerabilities. So if you start with something with an immediate yes or an immediate no, there's vulnerabilities. I hate no because it's defense and cynicism. I kind of weirdly love. Yes. Because it's optimism, but a lot of times it's delusional, maybe is a great place to start everything.

[Graham Stephan]

I just think this is going to lead to complete population collapse, that people are going to be more isolated than ever because they'll have an AI person that they could constantly be around that's going to be perfect for them.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What if we're the most isolated now and AI actually starts a decrease of isolation because you fully feel emotionally all the way there.

[Graham Stephan]

Sure. But I think in terms of population collapse.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

I think the government's going to have to come in and really incentivize.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's already happened.

[Graham Stephan]

Well, I. I think they have to offer. I think they have to offer bonuses for people to have children.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're too smart. You already know that's true. That's already happened. That's what, Korea, right now.

[Graham Stephan]

But to an extreme, here in the.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

United States, what are we protected from everything else? Of course that's what's gonna happen. Governments are gonna be fighting for people. Do you understand what's about to happen, right? Governments are gonna be paying. I'm gonna get offered ungodly amounts of money to live somewhere else. You know that, right? Governments are fighting with each other for talent.

[Jack]

So what good will a human be, though, when we have AI that's better?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, I don't know if. I don't know if it'll be better. It'll be different. It's again, an and state. Like, I don't know if it's gonna be better, but like. Like a human will. Oh, like, our brains are pretty intense, bro. You know that, right? Like, our brains are legit. Like, we're gonna do other. Like when the tractor was invented, everyone's like, what are people gonna do? We all work on farms. We figured it out.

[Graham Stephan]

You don't think this would be demotivating for people who could just plug into something, zone out, or be with an AI avatar or whatever and just be perfectly content sitting in the room all day?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think most people are doing that.

[Graham Stephan]

Now in a different way, but to an extreme. But even more people, like, if someone's having an average Life going to a 9 to 5, but they could stay home and just be with this avatar, plug into this system that keeps them perfect.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let's just play it out. Why is that bad? I'm like, Like, I'm. I'm not. I haven't thought it through. I'm actually just, like, framing the banter.

[Graham Stephan]

I would say that a large portion of society would be Isolated in that regard. And you'll have a few select people who don't want to go in that direction.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. Running. I think you're looking at way too surface level. Okay, let's bring it up.

[Graham Stephan]

Fair.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Isolated. If you're not feeling isolated. This was the argument of online dating. You're basically just doing a more mature argument of online dating, of why online dating was creepy and weird and not gonna work. Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

The counter to that though is that you do have such a high percentage of people now under. It's like 30. Not leaving their parents, not meeting people, not doing anything. Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Hey, what the, bro? My argument. You're actually. You're actually countering your argument. You know that. Right, right.

[Graham Stephan]

How so?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

AI's not here that we're talking about.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah. But we're going in that direction. When it's here now, it's like.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no.

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm arguing that this might solve the problem we're in right now.

[Jack]

Graham, I think, is trying to say that it might exacerbate it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

He might be right. Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

I don't think it's to solve a problem. I think it's just going to make it worse.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think you're a pessimist.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And. And maybe practical and maybe ca. And maybe not delusional. Let me say this though. Humans are the most underestimated, underrated brand and entity in the world. Let me give you an example.

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let's say this interesting conversation was in 1950 and we were talking about the atomic bomb. Just indented. Just dropped. And now we know Russia has one too. I have a funny feeling if I sat here and said it will not be used for the next 70 years, that you would have taken the counter. Humans are underestimated, bro. That's what everyone who's listening, I'm telling you right now. Humans are underestimated. This AI is big. These last 10 minutes was super fun and like fun banter. We're all trying to think it through. I would say underestimating the human is a mistake. And I would say that for all the people like, what are you talking about, Gary Vee? It's now. I would say that you don't understand history. It is not now. You believe it's now because all of you have gotten sucked into listening to dumb.

[Jack]

What do you think are the main things that are holding people back right now? And if they could make these adaptations, they'd be able to unlock their full potential. You seem like a very.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I have a very good thought on this. Share Number 1 2, 3, 4, and 5 is the utter lack of accountability. What's going on right now, brother, has nothing to do with anything other than we've been over coddled for 30 years. The end. You can do anything once you decide it's your fault. If you think it's your mommy and daddy's fault, that's what takes up the oxygen. You just spend all your time telling everybody about your mommy and daddy. If you think it's Trump or Biden or Putin or China, that's what you spend your time talking about. Everybody has become remarkable at pointing fingers. It has become a global pandemic.

[Graham Stephan]

Why is that over?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Over coddling, lack of accountability.

[Graham Stephan]

Where do you think that started?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Overcorrection to a lot of parents that got under, loved and overcorrected too far and we lost our way.

[Graham Stephan]

So you think the pendulum is swinging back to accountability?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No. That is my great hope.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, I do not feel like we're there right now, unfortunately. I feel like we're still in the very heavy mist of. I mean, we find so many things to blame on. Do you know that? Nobody. Do you know that? I didn't even know I was in Gen X my whole life. We didn't talk about generations. Like, do you have any hours? Gen Z talks about boomers.

[Graham Stephan]

It's become a meme now, though.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's. We're just.

[Jack]

So is that creating just cages for ourselves, thinking that we have to subscribe to a certain thing?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Of course. But most of all, the ultimate cage is when you think somebody else is in control of your life, you. You're dead.

[Graham Stephan]

But you know what? But people get rewarded for that online. And I feel like that's a slippery slope because when people post about themselves being a victim, they get so much support and so much sympathy online. It feels good to post something.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You've. Yes. Ish. You've lived through these last three years, the pendulum swinging. They also get a ton of hate.

[Graham Stephan]

I feel like it's. It's not balanced, though, in terms of the hate to love.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I feel like it's getting balanced. I feel like you're right three, four years ago, but I think changing.

[Jack]

I think it depends on the person in their audience, of course. Like, mostly, like if you have, like a girl that's crying, like on a camera and her audience is like 95% women, like all of the comments. But if it's a guy that's like, opening up about something, I get it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But let's talk about this. That goes back to the point of how we got here, that girl didn't wake up at 23 looking for unlimited sympathy. She's yearning for how she was parented. She wants to be coddled. That guy wants to be coddled. We want to blame his fault, your fault, that fault, this fault, that generation's fault, that politician's fault, that government's fault. Fuck. California, New York, Trump, Biden, Florida, Texas, her. Like, everybody, like, where's this? But real quick, where's this when somebody's upset today? Where is. I suck, and that's not the same as I suck. Let's go into depression. I'm talking about I'm accountable and capable. I don't like America. I can move to Costa Rica. I don't like my boss. I can quit. Oh, but Gary, I have a mortgage. Get out of it. Like, we.

[Jack]

You can do.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know that, right?

[Jack]

But that's also purposely and consciously subscribing to mild delusion because there are certain things that happen to certain people.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That is not.

[Jack]

That is not their fault.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Is it important, by the way, people, somebody just died of a stroke. It's not his fault, that. No, no.

[Jack]

So it's. It's important to delineate what I'm trying to get at between fault and responsibility.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no. I don't care about the semantics to your point. Fair. But let's go to where I'm trying to go, which is. Okay. Something happened to you. You don't have a lot of money saved up. A rock bounced on the highway and smattered your windshield, and now you have to fix it. That. What? You know, I guess you could say I should have left my house earlier or later, and the rock wouldn't be there. It's not the. Not. Not the ridiculousness. I'm looking forward to it. I'm asking, like, what do you do about it now? Like, you. Everything is about what you do about it. Could that person go on Craigslist and pick up on the free listings and sell it at the flea market this Saturday and make 320 bucks? They could. They could. They don't have to. Could that person ring the doorbell of his neighbor and say, hey, you're. You've always talked about my garden being awesome. Your garden. I'd like to do your garden for the next four months, but I want 300 bucks for it because my windshield just broke? Would you like to do that deal? They could. Like, like, happens all the time how you react to shit. All that life is. All life is. Is happening all the time. There is nothing else. The only thing that happens in life is happening all the time. What I'm interested in is what do you do about it? Is your life perfect?

[Jack]

I think I have a pretty good life.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Guess what? Bad news, something's gonna happen. That's life. You're not gonna be the one that goes through life without pain or struggle or micro issues. When you answer like that, here's where I go. That's awesome. That made my heart smile. Now what I wanna say to you if you were my younger brother is, bro, do not complain one day. If that's your truth, not one complaint out of your mouth. Cause in the macro so good, you're one of the few people on earth that gets to say that. Two, be mentally prepared. And let's start thinking about that for when it doesn't. Because a lot of people that are only accustomed to being good or get addicted to being good when they get caught with bad, don't have the backbone to take the punch in the face. And that's when the starts to get bad, right? Those are the things I like to start thinking about.

[Jack]

So if you could say one thing that would make the biggest splash. The people listening right now that think that they don't have control over their own life or that they have found themselves disagreeing or subconsciously they're disagreeing, they just don't consciously know it. What could you say to make the biggest splash, the biggest impact, to wake them up?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

There's so many different places I go. One, a part of me goes into a really deep tough love place of like, cool you, I don't give a, like, what the do you want from me? Like, I'm desperately trying to tell you in life you find what you're looking for. And if you're looking for good, it's good. And if you're looking for bad, it's bad. And what, what do you, what, what do you want from me, human sitting over here like, I don't need to convince you. You want to have a life, you have a life. There's that part, then there's the compassionate part which is like, bro, please, like, you have one life. The math around having a life is 400 trillion to one. You won already. You actually won. No matter how. Alcoholic, abusive father, sexual abuse, like, like, where do you want to go? Third world country? Like, where do you want to go? You still can actually, like, you still have a shot. You still, you could have not been born. Like, you have a shot. Like, you have a shot. You know, the sports Fan, how many times do you want to watch a game? Look at what the Pacers did to the Bucks the other day. The game was over, but it wasn't. Like, you could suck in life. You could be 53 right now and be a loser and dominate from 60 to 80. Enjoy it. You could. Like, it's never over. Like, I don't know. There's a lot of versions to your question. I don't know which one's going to work for someone. That's why I use them all. I've got nothing but compassion to hard luck. Like, I'm trying. I'm throwing out. Why do you think I make so much content? I'm desperate out here to make everybody understand. Please, for the love of God. Because deep down, what do you want from all of us? I don't judge you, but I can't change you either. Yeah, that was. That felt good. I've never said that. That's me. I don't judge you. I really don't. Because I know people have different circumstances, luck of the draw, all that stuff, but I can't change you. You have to change you.

[Jack]

You're way more impressive than I. And I'm not just saying that to, like, I'm not just saying that. And I don't say that usually, like, almost ever on the podcast. But I had high expectations. And first of all, this entire unit.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Or whatever you call this floor, is incredible.

[Graham Stephan]

Oh, my God.

[Jack]

But also, you're way, like, sharper and just maybe it's because you took that break, but I don't know.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I don't think so. I think. I think we talk about this a lot. Like, I sandbag it a little bit publicly in. In hindsight, like, I. What am I gonna say? I'm smart, I'm sharp. Like, I'm obsessed with value for the audience. But to your point, like, this is nothing. You should, like, you live here for a month, you'll be like, holy. Don't forget I did it. And then talked about it and continue to do it. So thank you for that. That means a lot to me. And again, the reason I like dealing with my compliments is again, that just my mom's 70th birthday is this weekend. Like, I can't wait to tell her what you just said, because it's gonna make her happy, because I'm her product.

[Jack]

Well, shout out Gary's mom.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, tomorrow.

[Jack]

Okay, so we got some rapid fire questions. What's something you hate that everyone else seems to love? This could be anything.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Complaining.

[Jack]

Okay.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay.

[Jack]

That's a good answer dialed answer.

[Graham Stephan]

All right.

[Jack]

If you could have a 30 minute conversation with any entrepreneur from history, who would you pick?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's a great question. Who would I pick? I would pick Walt Disney.

[Jack]

You get 10 million tax free today, but you can't invest it or use it for business. You just have to spend it on fun. What do you buy?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no, it's cool. I Love that question. 10 million for fun or do. I would probably courtside MBA like real exports is going to be way up there. I do like restaurants, so I'd probably like. And wine. So I'd probably go super hardcore on. It's less about going to like travel. It'd be travel for purpose around food. So I would say very ridiculous meals. Fun. I mean I would give away. I would love the feeling of giving away loads of cash at scale in like fun environments. Not like the stuff we see like the influencers do. More like I would go to like Peru and give somebody really like $30,000 where that's like 4 trillion. So some of that stuff would be really enjoyable with the cash.

[Jack]

Okay, what's one guilty pleasure you have that would surprise people?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That would surprise most of my silly stuff. I've shared a lot guilty pleasure that surprise people. Surprise. I'm not a very big guilty pleasure person. Like I have a incredible, like. It's funny, my fiance Mona is such a clean eater. But I think people know that I'm like willing to like eat 13 Snickers bars if I have to.

[Jack]

Snickers are great though.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Whatchamacallants I'm obsessed with. I got one, but it's not a surprise, which is why I'm probably. I'm obsessed with cereal. But weird ones like I'm huge on Captain Crunch.

[Jack]

Captain Crunch is the best.

[Graham Stephan]

Mr.

[Jack]

Beast should have a Captain Crunch is.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The other favorite cereal I have is Grape Nuts, which is completely different. Yeah, look, I'll check it out.

[Jack]

Would you rather own the New York jets but never see them win a Super bowl or see them number two bowl but never to own them?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And. And not even close. By the way, chasing the jets is my great love. Actually owning them. I'm neutral about winning a Super bowl is everything to me. Winning and not owning.

[Jack]

Why do you do this?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because my mom knitted me a jersey. A Jets jersey. When we were really poor with the number five on it. When all my friends in the neighborhood had a jersey and I asked for one but we couldn't buy one because we didn't have that kind of money. 25 bucks on a jersey was not in the cards. So at night while we were sleeping, my mom knitted me a jersey. It's the pinned Instagram that I have that if you go to my Instagram, it's pinned to the top. Why I want to actually buy the jets has a lot to do with why I want to buy them. And every time I take a photo, I just want to pay an homage to my mom.

[Graham Stephan]

Cool.

[Jack]

Thank you so much for joining the podcast.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Thank you.

[Jack]

This was incredible. Thank you, everyone who's wondering, hopefully this makes a change. And if you don't need it, congratulations.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

We all need it. Me included. Sam.