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The Iced Coffee Hour
"Time To Sell!" Doug Demuro's Shocking Prediction For Used Car Prices, Broke Buyers & 2026 Economy
02:26:40
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- [00:00]
Doug DeMuro
I know that this person is about one video away from bankruptcy, you know, And I'm just, like, terrified for all of them. Guys sit here and watch all these other people on YouTube doing this stuff, and I'm like, damn, I'm jealous. Like, I could have some of the cars I've always wanted if I was just willing to go into crazy debt driving my own Lamborghini. Kutash. I can't lose 100 grand in depreciation, like, mentally, like, it just. I can't.
- [00:24]
Graham
What do most people do, you think, get wrong about the car market?
- [00:27]
Doug DeMuro
People just take. Think depreciation is going to be a thing that happens to them, and they don't take steps to minimize it like they should. You have to kind of know which cars to buy, how to look for them, what to look for to actually not lose money. If you take a look at the car market over the last 15 years, cars are an asset class. We're like, the only logical, rational people on this platform.
- [00:57]
Graham
Who do you think is the most irresponsible?
- [01:09]
Jack
Doug Demuro, thank you so much for coming on the Iced Coffee Hour.
- [01:12]
Doug DeMuro
Thank you. Thank you for coming to my lair.
- [01:14]
Jack
So we just asked Freddy Tavares who is the worst with money out of all the car youtubers. He said, take a guess.
- [01:22]
Doug DeMuro
Himself.
- [01:24]
Jack
That would be correct. Yeah, he said himself. And then we asked who's the best? And this is what he said.
- [01:29]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, boy.
- [01:31]
Graham
Stradman the best with money?
- [01:33]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [01:34]
Graham
More than Doug demuro.
- [01:36]
Jack
Doug demuro, yeah.
- [01:37]
Doug DeMuro
No, no, no, no. Doug's very specific with money, but he can be pretty frivolous. He'll. He'll buy.
- [01:43]
Jack
He'll buy some. Some car that he considers cool.
- [01:45]
Doug DeMuro
And. And then that's like, I think. I don't think Doug Demuro. I'm glad.
- [01:51]
Graham
I'm.
- [01:51]
Doug DeMuro
I think he's totally fine with money.
- [01:53]
Jack
I think he's.
- [01:54]
Doug DeMuro
Is great. I think Stradman has monetized himself in such a way that he can afford hypercars and an incredible house and an incredible lifestyle, and he's opening up pizza places, and there's, like, upward mobility there. Doug, I think, put all his eggs.
- [02:11]
Jack
In one basket, and it.
- [02:13]
Doug DeMuro
It did pan out for him very, very well. But he said it himself. He's like, well, I don't know if I can do this again.
- [02:19]
Jack
I'm sure he can.
- [02:20]
Doug DeMuro
I have a lot of faith in Doug, and I know he does. He's very calculated with his decisions. But I feel like Stradman's probably, like, in terms of growth and roi.
- [02:30]
Jack
I think he's probably better.
- [02:33]
Doug DeMuro
I think that with no offense intended to Freddie or James, I think that Freddie is exactly the type of person who would think that James is the best.
- [02:43]
Jack
That is hilarious.
- [02:47]
Doug DeMuro
But. But I'm glad that he recognizes, though, that he is the worst. That's definitely true.
- [02:54]
Graham
Do you think he's worse than Hoovy's Garage?
- [02:56]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. Yeah. Because. Because. Because Freddy takes big swings with those. The P1 and the 918 and all that. Hoovy's who. He's pretty liquid. Like his. He's got 50 cars. You know, at any point, he could sell 12 of them and. And get some real money back. But. But Freddie's big problem, I think, is that, you know, his whole thing is kind of based on getting to these cars to a place where they're usable again. And if. If you can't do that, it causes a problem, as he explained to you guys, like. And it's very expensive to do that, especially the level of car that he is buying.
- [03:28]
Jack
He said that you're frivolous. So what's the most frivolous thing you've done with cars?
- [03:32]
Doug DeMuro
That's insane to me. I can't think of anything frivolous.
- [03:36]
Jack
Well, how much did you pay for this car behind you?
- [03:38]
Doug DeMuro
Well, that car was like a million two when I bought it, but it's a lot more now. Yeah, all cars like this are frivolous. Like, everything like this is kind of frivolous. Right. But I also really believe in diversifying, and I think that right now, like, if you take a look at the car market over the last 15 years, cars are an asset class. I mean, I drive my asset. That's probably not the right way to do it, but I have money that sits in the stock market that I don't drive, you know, like this. I can gain a little bit, not as much, but actually use it.
- [04:10]
Jack
I would love to know a 1.2 million. What's the car worth now?
- [04:14]
Doug DeMuro
I. I don't. There was just a crazy sale the other day that kind of rewrites my mind about what it's worth. I. In. I don't want it to be worth more than what I paid because it makes me really nervous to drive it. But I don't know. 1:1. Probably 1:5. I need to probably.
- [04:27]
Graham
Oh, I think it's probably more than that.
- [04:29]
Jack
So this $1.5 million car right behind you, how much does that cost to drive per mile?
- [04:34]
Doug DeMuro
That's a good question. I haven't really spent much in it but previous owners definitely did. I will say, though, the guy who bought it there was the second owner. If he had. If the second owner had kept it until I sold. Until I bought it. So from like 09 until 22, he would have beat the S and P. Including all. All service records. If you add them all up and fuel and insurance.
- [04:55]
Jack
But the mileage that you're adding to it every time you drive one mile, that alongside all of the maintenance and then the insurance and the. The carrying cost. What do you think it costs per mile to drive the car?
- [05:04]
Doug DeMuro
It's hard to. It's hard to assess because. Because, um. Like, for example, there was a service at the end of 20 that was $80,000. That dude who. I didn't do it. It was previous owner. That guy paid a lot per mile. Right. I have been driving in a lot of miles, and I've been benefiting from some of the. From some. Some of that service already being done. And so my cost per mile is pretty low, especially because the value's gone up. I mean, truthfully, there hasn't been a cost per mile. If you. If you also will include what I paid and what it's worth. But I. I don't. I actually don't know. I've probably. I've probably spent. If you factor in insurance and tax and all that, I've probably. I don't know. I guess if you take out sales tax, which I think is like part of. Maybe. Maybe you need to include sales tax because that's. But if you take it out, I'm probably in that car. 50 grand on top of what I bought it for. Maybe a little more. Something like that. 60. But part of it was I did some stuff to it that I wanted to do. Like I put in heated seats, I put in Bluetooth. I completely replaced the factory suspension with aftermarket suspension. That is more modern. Modern. The car sits at the same height, but the feel of it is tighter. Those are all elective.
- [06:13]
Graham
You know, that's interesting.
- [06:15]
Jack
You threw in Bluetooth Bluetooth in this car that you paid $1.2 million for a car that didn't have Bluetooth.
- [06:20]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, I mean, it's older. That predates Bluetooth. Yeah.
- [06:23]
Jack
How much more expensive is it to install Bluetooth in a hypercar than it is to install it in, like, a Corolla?
- [06:29]
Doug DeMuro
It wasn't. There's a guy in Connecticut who's famous for servicing these called. Called Jimmy Rapasi. He has a shop called Rapasi Motorworks, and he's come up with all These kind of interesting solutions for guys who want to really use these cars. So did we put in an axle lifter which wasn't a thing back in 05. Now every supercar has you press a button and shoots up, but that car didn't have one. However, that car is notoriously low in the front. It scrapes on everything. And so I put in an axle lifter too and he, he created, there's a solution for like he, he figured out a way to work with a suspension supplier and like get that, get that done. And so you push a button and the thing goes up and things like that. I, yeah, Bluetooth is expensive and heated seats were expensive to add it. I wanted to make sure the car was as drivable as possible so that I had no excuses not to use it basically.
- [07:10]
Graham
How much do you think your car collection has gone up in value over the last year?
- [07:14]
Doug DeMuro
A lot in last year. I don't know. I think that this over the last year has gone up more than I wish it had. Countach. Pretty flat. Ford GT's gone up our 4 GTS. Yeah, I consider Ford GT like a bond investment. Like it's not the strongest but it is like dead safe. Like it is just continued and it's, and it's, it's not expensive to own that car. I don't know, a couple hundred grand probably. It's crazy.
- [07:38]
Graham
So what's interesting is that we're seeing these record prices right now for cars at auction. Like supercars are going up in value. Lamborghini is having record sales, prices are skyrocketing. But meanwhile you see the consumers purchasing power is going down each and every year. They're spending a record amount of their disposable income on cars. I think payments over $1,000 a month have now also hit a record. What is your thought on this K shaped car?
- [08:04]
Doug DeMuro
It is, isn't it? But I think a lot of it is. It's also, it actually reminds me and almost in a scary way of what we saw, which was that a lot of the rich people are kind of moving back into assets. You're seeing gold and silver where they are. You're seeing cars, you're seeing art. Like you wonder if maybe people are starting to get worried about holding, you know, non physical assets for whatever reason or they think that there's a good, there's a good investment opportunity in that stuff. But clearly that's happened. Like some of these cars that were 3 million bucks, I mean I'm talking about my cars going up and it's been. It's been something. But there are some cars that Enzo sales recently out of this world. To me, that mentally that's a three, $4 million car. Well, the three sales have been 8, 8, 10, $12 million for them. Like, that's crazy. That's. That. That appreciation beats out any. Almost any like investment security investment you're going to make.
- [08:51]
Graham
You know, what does that do instantaneously to the rest of the market? When you see one big sale like.
- [08:56]
Doug DeMuro
That, it gets around. And then, and then I think those. There's like a reset of expectations about what those cars are worth. And I think there also starts to become. I know this because I've experienced myself. There also starts to become this fear that if that's a car you wanted, you got to go buy it right now because, yeah, a year from now might be even more. And so like, I, like, I really wanted the Ferrari 599 GTO. I think that's a really cool car. When I bought my Countach, I didn't really think about one, but they were the same money. And I like it like, was in my mind. And that was a 600 car back then. And now they're selling for just a little under two. That was only three years ago.
- [09:26]
Graham
Yeah.
- [09:27]
Doug DeMuro
And I was even. I was like, okay, I saw a couple of them, you know, hit 1.2, 1.4. I'm like, I'm like on our trader, like, okay, are there any unpredictable. I got to get this. I got to get one of these. And like, that kind of stuff happens. Like, and then there's this like, ground. Well, okay, that's an $8 million car now. Well, if I'm someone who, who views, I. I gotta have it in my collection, right? I gotta have. I gotta get one. And so that happens. That like, really, really happens. And I think it just continues to drive those cars to go even higher.
- [09:55]
Graham
Why was mecam so pivotal? And now for those unaware, this was this recent auction that this line, these lineup of cars all went for sale and just broke every record imaginable.
- [10:05]
Doug DeMuro
But that was an unusual auction, though, because most of those cars came out of this one collection where all of the cars were pretty special. They had all in this very unusual way with bizarre color choices. Virtually all those cars were completely undriven, and virtually all of them were the last one. So it was like the last, you know, 599, the LA. Whatever. Like the very last. So th. That those kinds of things are always going to be special. And it kind of checked all those boxes. I actually think the more pivotal sale was last weekend in Arizona. RM did a big sale of cars that weren't really special. A red Enzo a. A gray Carrera gt. And they kind of continued those prices. And it was like I could see all the crazy Mecham cars getting those prices because they were very unusual cars. But now here we're sitting looking at some cars that aren't really unusual, that don't have a big hype around the sale like the Mecham auction did. And you're like, oh, maybe this is what they're worth.
- [10:58]
Graham
But how much of that was influenced by Meca?
- [11:00]
Doug DeMuro
Maybe, but that, that's, that's how this all works, right? You see one auction and then the next auction shows up and people are looking at the last auction. Okay, well that's what that's worth. And then they're going crazy on that one. And then four or five auctions from now, you're going to see if, if the standard for a Low Mile Crow GT is 3 million, that's what people are going to start paying.
- [11:15]
Graham
So I'm curious though, who is buying those cars at Mecum? Who is paying this and who is buying that car with like the green interior and like the McDonald's colors?
- [11:24]
Doug DeMuro
I am curious to find out the answer to that. I'm curious to find out the answer to that for sure.
- [11:30]
Graham
Why do you think some people would say it's suspicious?
- [11:34]
Doug DeMuro
I think it, it's a little suspicious because they went for so much money. And, and also because, and I'm not saying this was the case at all with that auction, but also because anyone who's in the business, and especially who's around this type of cars, know that there's some fishy stuff that happens at those auctions. Cars are pre sold. The lamp in the back makes a lot of the bids. You know, there's, there's some, there's some sketch things that happen. And so there are always. Whenever something like this happens, there's always weird conspiracy theories like did this happen or did that happen? I definitely am not saying that any of that happened in this auction, but I think there's people who are sophisticated in this space are always a little skeptical.
- [12:12]
Graham
What would you say is a maybe valid conspiracy theory?
- [12:16]
Doug DeMuro
That there was one collector who really wanted the cars. Here's, here's, here's the way it would go. Yeah, there's one collector who really wants all the cars meet. They've already been consigned to Mechan. That collector creates an agreement Beforehand that he buys the whole collection for 40 million, whatever it is.
- [12:33]
Graham
I don't know.
- [12:34]
Doug DeMuro
And then he makes sure to win. And, and, and he cuts, he cuts them in on the deal. Right. Like okay, you already consigned the cars. I'm going to pay 40 million. You get 10%, 20%. I don't know. Give. You give him another 10 million, whatever it is. And then they make sure to win. And the Megan, you know, the auction house knows that the cars are already pre sold so they can bid because then they know the guys. And then you get to these crazy numbers that makes the auction house look good. Again, not at all saying that that's what happened in this case. I, who knows. And I think these cars, those particular cars were such unusual outliers in the market that I wasn't as surprised as a lot of people to see him. Numbers that they got to like, you're not. There are a lot of red 599 GTOs. You're never going to find the very last, the weird color, the zero mile, like that car. For a lot of people. That car is going to check a very special box that is worth paying a lot of money for. However, at some of these auctions in the past certainly there have been some things that have happened. And so there's always a little bit of question whenever something like this happens from some sectors of people.
- [13:34]
Graham
Now one thing I thought was really interesting was the 250GTO.
- [13:37]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [13:38]
Graham
Sold for less than what was expected. Well, every other.
- [13:41]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [13:41]
Graham
2000S car sold for way more.
- [13:44]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [13:44]
Graham
Are we seeing a shift away from older cars as younger buyers don't relate to it?
- [13:48]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. I mean would you, would you give up your Ford GT for a 60s? You know, like, is that something on your mind?
- [13:54]
Graham
I would for that car.
- [13:55]
Doug DeMuro
But, but you, you get. But for like.
- [13:57]
Graham
But if you told me a car from the 30s or 40s, I have.
- [14:00]
Doug DeMuro
Zero connection a boomer's muscle cars. In the 0809 when boomers were like in the, you know, 0607 those, the muscle cars were up above a million bucks and all that. And, and eventually it cycles out and the 250 GTO is still a very special car that anybody even in our, even in the next generation will still find to be special. I think, however, the number of people for whom that is the holy grail will certainly decrease. It's not really usable. It's. It's slow, it's old, it's et cetera. And you start to see people in younger generations appreciating the McLaren F1s and the Ferrari F40s and this kind of thing.
- [14:36]
Jack
Yeah.
- [14:36]
Doug DeMuro
And that's going to continue.
- [14:38]
Jack
What do you think will then be the future holy grail of car investing? Because for me growing up, it was always like the Lamborghini Aventador, like, that was sick. I'm 27. Like when I was younger, like, that was.
- [14:48]
Doug DeMuro
Those types of cars will continue to increase, I think, or, or will at least drop a little bit more and then someday start to go back up. I think the McLaren F1 is the Ferrari 250 GTO of the next generation. It's already kind of proven that, honestly. The production numbers are almost identical. There's about 65 road cars, which is basically the same as the number of overall 250 GTOs. And there's been a huge appreciation recently that doesn't seem to be abating. There's it. When the cars shot up in value, several people who owned them sold them pretty quickly and they all got all the money. So, like, those are 25 plus million dollar cars now. I could see those going even higher.
- [15:24]
Jack
So in terms of the average person watching this, they're probably not going to be able to afford a bunch of these cars.
- [15:29]
Doug DeMuro
Probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [15:30]
Jack
So in my case, I went out and I was like, I need a new, new car. I'm going to go buy a Tesla Model y. In about two years, I've lost about 60% of the value. So I paid $58,000 all in for a Tesla Model Y. And I.
- [15:43]
Doug DeMuro
How'd you let him do this?
- [15:44]
Graham
It's not even. I told him not to. I honestly, I've been for years. It. Just wait, just wait. You don't need it.
- [15:50]
Jack
But he's, he also has told me not to buy real estate, which I ended up buying into wealth. Okay, well, you were wrong.
- [15:55]
Graham
Balances out. Okay, sure.
- [15:57]
Jack
But for a lot of the people that, you know, want to apply this to their own life, obviously don't go out and buy a Tesla Model Y. But if you're around that price range of like, okay, 50 to 80 to 90, $100,000, what cars could they buy that they're going to make money on or at least won't cost them money to drive.
- [16:12]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. You know, it's kind of funny because everybody, one of the things, like Freddie says, the frivolous cars I buy from these frivolous cars, like, I've spent a lot of money on cars, but in all cases I've lost less money on cars than you, right? I got a car that costs a million bucks, right?
- [16:25]
Jack
Don't rub it in my feet.
- [16:27]
Doug DeMuro
But it's pretty wild to think about, right? Like, at the end of the day, that's a pretty crazy thing to think about. Like. Like, actually, I try to always think of things. Guys are probably the same. We try to always think of things from a total cost of ownership perspective. Your Model Y is cheap to run, right? Like, you don't put in gas, there's not, you know, oil changes. You don't have any of that stuff you write off.
- [16:43]
Jack
And like, I did the math and so, sure, I could argue that I lost a lot of value, but in actuality I ended up saving quite a bit of money.
- [16:49]
Doug DeMuro
And, but nonetheless, like, depreciation is often overlooked, I think. And so I always caution people, whenever. And so people think it's crazy that I have cars that cost as much. And meanwhile they're saying that to me and they have a brand new BMW X7. And I'm sitting here thinking, and, you know, your car actually costs more like it. When, when all is said and done, you will have spent more than I have. However, if you want to be in that price point and make some money or at least not lose, I mean, Porsches are really hot right now. And basically any manual transmission Porsche seems to be holding its value from the996,911, which is kind of the redheaded stepchild that are in the 25, $30,000 range all the way up to, you know, 911 turbos and everything. There's a, there's a 911 for basically every price, flavor. And I know it's not the most practical. If you're looking for a third car as a fun car, you know, you have your family, whatever, the kids are getting older, you want to have something to do on the weekends, that's a pretty easy way. Those are not particularly expensive to own, and they generally at least maintain value. I don't think you're going to see skyrocketing value numbers from any car in the 50, $60,000 range, but at least not losing, I think. And that, to me, that's like a huge, huge thing that. More I see it in my YouTube comments all the time. People are like, how can you say you can't? I always talk about, I can't afford this car, that car. How can you say you can't afford that? You have a Courier GT I can't stomach. I can't lose a hundred grand in depreciation mentally. Like, it Just, I can't. It can't happen. And I think more people should be thinking that way.
- [18:13]
Graham
Yeah. There was a viral Twitter thread that said it was cheaper to own a supercar than a budget car.
- [18:18]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [18:19]
Graham
And people got so triggered from that. But then people started posting examples of, I bought this Huracan for this price and now it's worth this. I bought this Ferrari for this and this. Or an Audi R8. I bought this and now it's worth 30 grand more than what I paid.
- [18:32]
Doug DeMuro
For money to get in there in the first place. And of course, those cars aren't practical. You know, one of the. One of the real undercurrents of the whole thing is why, you know what I can't do with my courage, even though I made bump. Yeah. Carry my family. Right. Like, I still need to have those cars in addition to. So that's harder, but it is. I think that is generally true. Especially in the last 10 years, these supercars have been even kind of huracans, which are not special. And they made a lot of them.
- [18:57]
Jack
Yeah.
- [18:58]
Doug DeMuro
They've been holding their value unbelievably well. Like crazy.
- [19:02]
Jack
Everyone's always interested in my dating life. I mean, just look at these comments. A lot of you guys know I've been on all the dating apps, but to be honest, I actually stepped away from them. I didn't have the time or energy just to scroll endlessly. I didn't want to have the same surface level conversations over and over. And to be honest, it just felt like I was putting in a lot of energy without it moving forward. What stood out to me about our sponsor the league is how it just felt way more dialed in. I've used it before and the curated matches were consistently solid. You're not just scrolling through hundreds of random profiles on the league. You get a small, curated, handpicked set every single day. The league is extremely curated to keep the community high quality and attentional. You're not here to rack up matches. You're here to make the match that matters. Way less scrolling and way less small talk and more momentum towards something real. And now that my timing is better, that's exactly why I'm excited to get back on. The League is designed to move conversations towards real dates faster so you're not stuck sending the message. How was your weekend? Over and over again. Less noise, clearer signals, a smarter way to spend your time. The League. Find someone in yours. Apply today. So what would the argument then be for the single guy watching this who's 30 years old? Maybe mid-20s, early mid-30s to buy a new Camry. Instead of buying an old cool car that's going to remain in value, he.
- [20:12]
Graham
Should buy an Audi R8 from 2009.
- [20:15]
Jack
That might be slightly different than a Camry price range, but like, let's say around like 35, 40,000 bucks.
- [20:21]
Doug DeMuro
I mean, the benefit of the Camry is you can go to any dealer, pick it up, you can go to any place to service it, you can get financed on it. Which I think is a lot of, a lot of the factor here. Right. Like it's hard to get financing for some of these supercars and those cars are cheap to own. Like they are. The oil changes are cheap. These supercars ultimately can be expensive to own. And if things go bad, they can be punishing. If the motor fails in that car, that would be a 300 plus thousand dollar repair. It's not going to happen with the camera. The motor won't fail. You get a warranty. You know, it takes a level of sophistication, I think, to go out and actually trade in the supercar world to know what you're doing, to actually not lose money. You have to kind of know which cars to buy, how to look for them, what to look for in terms of mileage, in terms of, you know, how they've been maintained, that kind of thing. And I think that's kind of what stops that person from doing that. And I like art. I know there are people out there who are making a ton of money on art. Art, I don't know anything about art, so I stay out of it. But I, I know cars and so I know that I can at least stay flat or make a little money on cars.
- [21:24]
Graham
Now when it comes to buying some of the hypercars though, that we see in like the 1 to 5 million dollar range, a lot of people are doing these leases now.
- [21:30]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [21:31]
Graham
How is this workman?
- [21:32]
Doug DeMuro
You guys talk to James about that? I'm curious. He did lease that Koenigsegg was. His payments were like 30 GS a month. Crazy.
- [21:38]
Graham
But I understanding a lot of that goes towards principal. Yeah, with a balloon payment at the end.
- [21:43]
Doug DeMuro
Like that's still a crazy monthly right now.
- [21:46]
Graham
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- [21:57]
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- [22:50]
Jack
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- [23:03]
Graham
But it's deductible. Yeah, in theory, for tax purposes, it seems like it would make a lot of sense.
- [23:07]
Doug DeMuro
Does Stradman get in trouble for trying to write it off? No, not in a lot of cases. It's deductible and that is what people are doing. I think there are some real benefits to it. I think there's a huge sales tax benefit, too, because you don't pay sales tax up front. You pay kind of each month on the lease payment in most states. And so there are some benefits to doing it that way.
- [23:28]
Graham
You're just seeing this Miami crowd right now go and buy like koenigsex for like 3, 4 million dollars, drive them around.
- [23:35]
Doug DeMuro
It's. I just, there was a time to do that when rates were low. I just can't justify it mentally. Like, I sit here and watch all these other people on YouTube doing this stuff, and I'm like, damn, I'm jealous. Like, I could have some of the cars I've always wanted if I was just willing to go into crazy debt or do crazy stuff like that. But I'm just not.
- [23:52]
Graham
Speaking of that, I want to get your reaction to this. Oh, boy, we got a. A funny one. What's going on, folks?
- [23:58]
Doug DeMuro
It's your boy Steve O.
- [23:59]
Graham
Got me rolling and Ashley Got me rolling today.
- [24:01]
Doug DeMuro
We got our dog Gino approved on this 22 ca cored. Gino, how was your experience, man? Y already know where to come from, you know what I'm saying? Right here. Where's it at, man? You know what I'm talking about? Right here, nowhere else. Y' all know what's going on.
- [24:16]
Graham
How much did you put down?
- [24:18]
Doug DeMuro
Like 1200. 1200 on a C8, y'.
- [24:23]
Graham
All.
- [24:23]
Doug DeMuro
Nice job, Gino. ID mail. We don't ask for too much. Do we have pesos or anything? No, sir. Smooth, easy process in and out. If you're in the market for a vehicle, all you need is your ID mail. Shoot it to be in right now. Is this real?
- [24:35]
Graham
Yeah, real dude.
- [24:37]
Doug DeMuro
Gino's killing it.
- [24:39]
Graham
And they have.
- [24:40]
Jack
Clearly he's driving a Corvette.
- [24:41]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, it's killing it.
- [24:42]
Graham
And they have regular cars too. Anyway, there he goes.
- [24:48]
Doug DeMuro
He's driving off in his Corvette, 1200 down.
- [24:54]
Graham
Does that worry you at all?
- [24:55]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, but not more than it did. Not more than it always has. You know, there's, there's always going to be fringe people financing fringe people, you know that, that, that, that there will always kind of be a world in a market for crazy companies who are willing to finance crazy people at crazy numbers and, and crazy people who are willing to take those deals.
- [25:14]
Graham
But do you worry that longer financing terms are some the market from falling too much?
- [25:20]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, probably. That's pro. There's probably an effect on that for sure. I wish that people would couple their longer financing term with owning the car for longer. You know, a seven year loan is like not the craziest thing if, if you're a kind of dude who wants to keep a car 14 years. But my, my parents do that. They're still driving around 20 year old cars. But what ends up happening instead is that people finance a car for six, seven years and are underwater for, for the first 80% of the loan and get tired of the car a year in and find it roll the negative equity into the next car to the point where, I mean when I worked in car sales, you'd see people come in with neg with negative equity. That was like unfathomable, you know, like they're driving around in a $10,000 car, but some of they have 30 and negative equity and it's like how are you ever going to make that work?
- [26:03]
Jack
I have a genius idea.
- [26:05]
Graham
Yeah.
- [26:05]
Jack
Car note backed securities.
- [26:09]
Doug DeMuro
Oh yeah, that sounds like a winner.
- [26:11]
Jack
Yeah, well, interest rates, subprime, you know, car notes into these securities.
- [26:16]
Graham
There's got to be a fund. Who's doing it?
- [26:18]
Doug DeMuro
There probably is.
- [26:19]
Jack
Yeah.
- [26:19]
Doug DeMuro
And honestly the good stuff is good. You know, like a lot of most people are paying off their car loans, but then there's a lot of people who are.
- [26:25]
Graham
How is someone able to roll that much negative equity into a car though? Like a ten thousand dollar car with a thirty thousand dollar payment attached to it.
- [26:32]
Doug DeMuro
I, I don't, I mean that may be a ridiculous example, but there are absolutely situations like that. Part of it is the car loses a lot more value right away. Part of it is, is, you know, they, they maybe the car. Yeah. Like the car had more equity initially and then they crashed it a couple times. It's got a bad carfax. And that stuff happens though. It's out there. So you got to just ride that out. You have to just keep driving the car.
- [26:51]
Graham
So what are your thoughts on a 96 month car loan?
- [26:55]
Doug DeMuro
I mean it depends on the loan. The rate you give me 96 at 0. I'll take that. Sure, you're 96 at 2. I'll take that. But that's not what's happening.
- [27:03]
Graham
Right, right.
- [27:04]
Doug DeMuro
Like people are taking it at market rate and they're using it to buy a full size pickup truck. And that's not a great situation. I mean there's no question it's not a great situation. I think this is, this goes into my total cost of ownership thing. Like I only see cars as total cost of ownership. A trap that people get into is. Another trap that people get into is they only look at their monthly payment. Okay, it's 600amonth. I can afford that. Well, it's 600amonth until your, you know, your baby child is 23 years old. That you're not thinking about that. Right. You're not thinking about like the incredible length of time that some of these things can have and the drawbacks that come with putting 1200 down on a car that is heavily depreciating like a ca, which is kind of in free fall right now.
- [27:42]
Graham
How do you determine how much car you could afford?
- [27:44]
Doug DeMuro
Me?
- [27:45]
Graham
Yeah. What is your advice for people when they're thinking about this? Is it a percentage of income? Is it a. Yeah.
- [27:52]
Doug DeMuro
You know, I don't get a lot of. Most of the people who come to me, my community, my friends aren't really in. They're not really thinking about affordable. Most of them are already financially savvy.
- [28:02]
Graham
Yeah.
- [28:03]
Doug DeMuro
I don't get a lot of people who are saying how much car can I afford? I have those Conversations with people about houses sometime. But how much car can I afford? Is, is not usually most, I don't know a lot of car enthusiasts, to be honest with you. And most of the, the dad down the street, he's not trying to stretch his budget. He just wants a three year old SUV that he can like live.
- [28:23]
Graham
What's your recommendation if a viewer comes to you says, hey, Doug, how much car could I afford?
- [28:27]
Doug DeMuro
It depends a lot on a lot of things. How much are you willing to sacrifice? How much are you into cars? Honestly, I have way more car than I should for my net worth, but I'm really into cars and I get a lot of benefit from it. I think those things, those are real questions that should be answered. Are you willing to sacrifice other stuff for car? A lot of people would say absolutely not. Okay, well then not that much. Get a Honda Accord. Like there's a Prius, like, be rational. But if you can, like, if you can fit it into your income. I don't know, like, I, I, it depends on so many factors that it's hard to say. But I would be comfortable telling certain people to stretch if I really felt that they were going to be disciplined and if they, I really felt they were going to get a lot from that car. And I think that that's, that goes against a lot of traditional financial advice. But I understand what it's like to be passionate something and like an enthusiast of something. And I think there is some like, real value to not being 70 and saying, I wish I had bought, you know, life worked out great, but when I was young it would have been cool to have a Corvette. Yeah, like Gino.
- [29:23]
Graham
Now in the last podcast we did, we were talking about how EV subsidies were really pushing a lot of those people to buy EVs and they got rid of that.
- [29:30]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [29:30]
Graham
What's been the impact now that they got rid of the $8,000 tax credit?
- [29:34]
Doug DeMuro
Yikes. I mean, EV sales absolutely plummeted at the end of last quarter. I think there's been a couple of interesting impacts. EV sales don't, like, done. Like, it's hard to justify buying the cars at the price points they're at without some huge subsidy. That's not as true of the high end EVs, which were not really covered by the subsidy in the first place. And so like Rivian and stuff are still seem to be doing about as well as they were. But your Teslas and your Mach Es and your, you know, these cars, it then comes down to the responsibility of the manufacturer to discount the car to a market correct price, and often that means they can't justify making it anymore. And so very quickly, several EVs were canceled immediately brought off the market. And that. So that's one that's like the market factor. Something else we talk about a lot on our podcast is I'm always very disappointed. I don't want to get political, but I'm disappointed at the removal of the EV subsidies. I like gas cars. I own six, seven gas cars. I don't have an ev. However, the other. The rest of the world is clearly getting ramping up on EVs, and I worry that by removing these subsidies, even though right now it means we can all buy the V8s we want in, I definitely worry that in the global economy, America is falling behind. And I want America to win, win, win. And to me, like, like letting China, who is heavily subsidizing their evs, continue to make technological leaps while America kind of rests on its laurels with V8s and things right now, it seems cool. In 20 years, it's not going to seem.
- [30:52]
Graham
My understanding that with China, they're putting a lot of emphasis in battery technology that we're not quite doing here.
- [30:58]
Doug DeMuro
And a lot of that emphasis is because the Chinese government is subsidizing car manufacturers to unbelievable degrees. And so the result of that is that there's huge. There's huge incentives for these companies to develop cars, to develop technology and to sell these cars. And China is going global. China's selling in Canada now. China's selling in Mexico now. They're already all over Europe. You can't walk around Mexico and not see 20, 30 Chinese cars every, every, everywhere you're walking around. There are Chinese cars everywhere now. And that could have been America if we had played our cards right. And that, that makes me anxious, for sure.
- [31:29]
Jack
How good Are Chinese EVs?
- [31:31]
Doug DeMuro
Actually, they're pretty good. We've had a few in the office. I've reviewed, I've reviewed maybe four, and they don't suck. Like, you think of Chinese stuff as kind of crazy crappy, right?
- [31:38]
Jack
Like, you think of it as like growing up. It's like, oh, this is made in China.
- [31:43]
Graham
It's going to break next week.
- [31:44]
Doug DeMuro
That's not the case. The EVs were here. We had the, the, the SU7, which is like one of the, one of the big Tesla rivals in China. And we looked at what the price comparison is and the performance comparison and the, and the features, and it's like there's no reason you would buy A Tesla in China.
- [31:58]
Jack
So it's that much better than a Tesla.
- [31:59]
Doug DeMuro
And part of the reason is because there are huge government subsidies on the price point. And so they're able to sell these cars at. You can't compete with, with that. You literally cannot compete. But like, yeah, it's as good or better than a Tesla and a lot less money. Why would you, why would you not buy Tesla?
- [32:12]
Graham
Isn't that, though, because they also stole a lot of the IP from Tesla and they copied it and they saved a whole bunch of R and D maybe. And then they just maybe.
- [32:20]
Doug DeMuro
Although electric cars at their core are not as complicated and China has gone above and beyond what any other automakers have done. Like there are, There are Toyota 4Runner style EVs in China. There are crazy EV supercars that can jump, you know. Yeah, like they're, they are on a completely different. Whether that was true or not. Like they are now pushing in a new frontier that I, I definitely wish that I was seeing Chrysler and General Motors getting into because I worry that we're going to see another, like, big auto industry decline in 30 years when eventually, finally the floodgates open for China or America just tries to continue to compete on a global scale and we can't do it anymore.
- [33:00]
Graham
So what would it take to import a China EV car here if the automaker did?
- [33:05]
Doug DeMuro
There's like 100% tariff on Chinese cars, so they can't justify it right now. So there's basically, there's essentially no Chinese cars for sale in the United States. The only thing that would realistically happen for that to change is the government would have to change. I mean, no one's, no one's got 100 margin, you know, like, and even then you're also, you're also coming up against some pretty significant political headwinds. There's a lot of Americans who don't want to buy a Chinese product. We talked about this on our pod a couple weeks ago. Like, ultimately you can't, it's different than when Korea showed up with the hyundais in the 80s. Like Americans, I think we're probably neutral about Korea. Americans aren't neutral about China. So not only do you have this product that is 100% tariffs, but then you also have to convince people that China is not the enemy. Yeah. And people in the States are pretty hard coded to believe that China is the enemy. So that's, that's a tough thing to fight against. But I'll tell you, you go to Mexico, where cost is a much bigger factor. In vehicle purchases. They're buying Chinese cars. You know, like they look at these things and they're looking at the numbers and the, the horsepower and the electric range and they're like, you know, I'm just gonna buy. It's cheaper, it's, it's affordable. I'm gonna do it.
- [34:06]
Graham
So I'm curious that speaking of range, why can't we get EVs past 500 miles?
- [34:12]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. I mean there's probably battery limitations. This goes too technical for me. There's probably. But I will also say one of the things I've discovered is talking to the automakers at all the press launches is that there's not actually demand for it. Like you. You think there would be?
- [34:26]
Graham
I would think there would be.
- [34:27]
Doug DeMuro
I drive every summer, I drive to the east coast and back.
- [34:30]
Graham
Yeah.
- [34:30]
Doug DeMuro
And I'll do 1200 miles in a day. I would love a 1200 mile EV, but most people don't do that. And what they're finding is that in order to get those extra even above 350 in order to get those extra miles, there's a significant cost component, there's a significant weight component that you then have to engineer against. Right. You have to make the car faster. And as a result of that it. And then you're basically making a luxury car. You have to. Because of the added cost of more batteries. It just. People don't really need it. There are some people who do, but I think the automakers would kind of consider them fringe people. And with evs, you kind of have to go after the middle of the bell curve. Because the bell curve is already pretty small.
- [35:10]
Graham
Yeah.
- [35:10]
Doug DeMuro
You know, like I think it'd be cool as hell if someone came out with yeah, like a thousand mile ev. I would buy it. But how many other people would. And, and how many people would spend what that would cost? Sure.
- [35:19]
Graham
And what do you think the impact is going to be now that silver prices are hitting like $115 an ounce on batteries?
- [35:25]
Doug DeMuro
What an unusual business to be in having to figure out out pricing these vehicles where you're not only have to figure out suppliers and tariffs, but also metals. Like I'm cur. I'm curious what effect that'll have for sure. You know, the automakers can never really be as dynamic with pricing as they wish they could be to account for things like that. But you have to assume that'll be another thing that, that increases prices.
- [35:49]
Jack
Yeah.
- [35:49]
Graham
Imagine dynamic pricing that changes by the day depending on what the metals are worth.
- [35:55]
Doug DeMuro
Kill for it. Right. But people would Be up. I mean it'd be insane.
- [35:59]
Graham
Or like peak pricing at like, you know, 4th of 4th of July pricing.
- [36:04]
Doug DeMuro
Is like a little more and then.
- [36:05]
Graham
Like, you know, Black Friday sale demand goes up. It just like changes a little bit.
- [36:09]
Jack
Why can't they adjust prices that quickly?
- [36:11]
Doug DeMuro
I presume there. Well, for one thing it's difficult for advertising. I mean messaging and advertising. You got to tell the people this is what it costs. You know, people would also just generally be up in arms not knowing what a the thing is worth the stock.
- [36:24]
Graham
Market like trying to figure out imagine. Right.
- [36:27]
Doug DeMuro
I think there's also regulatory components to it too. I, I ass. I mean the automaker has to print the window sticker by law and stick on the thing that the actual price of the car. I mean I guess they could update that daily. But you know, then you get into kind of a menu prices thing. Like you really have to then be adjusting all sorts of crap and but mostly I think people just wouldn't put up with it. I think they would just go buy the rival who if they know what the price is.
- [36:48]
Graham
What do most people do you think get wrong about the car market? It.
- [36:51]
Doug DeMuro
I think at least from a consumer perspective, I really think that depreciation is one of the primary things people get wrong about the car market. I think that people just take think depreciation is going to be a thing that happens to them and they don't take steps to minimize it like they should.
- [37:04]
Graham
What cars do you think are going to skyrocket in price?
- [37:07]
Doug DeMuro
It's hard to say because so many cars have already. But I really think that like this. Unfortunately the same supercars that have already been increasing I think will only continue to increase, which I think primarily is analog cars. There's this amazing intersection. We were just talking. There's an amazing intersection of performance and modernity that happened between about 1995 and about 2008. And to me that's like the sweet spot for cars. And I think that those cars are going to continue to go up. It was like before hybrids, before screens, before automatic transmissions. Cars were still analog and yet they don't. Like 80s cars that have all that stuff are kind of slow, low and they're kind of finicky. There was a period where cars were both reliable and fast, but still kind of you could control it like the Ford GT cars, cars in that realm. I think those cars will continue to find a lot of interest.
- [37:59]
Graham
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- [38:17]
Jack
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- [38:37]
Graham
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- [38:45]
Jack
And again, it lets you focus on the stuff that actually moves the business forward.
- [38:48]
Graham
So visit Upwork.com right now to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow.
- [38:55]
Jack
That is up.comupwork.com there's also a link down below in the description. You could just click it right there. Thank you so much to upwork for sponsoring this video. What's the one car that you can't believe has gotten so expensive?
- [39:07]
Doug DeMuro
There's a few. Some of the Porsches I'm really astonished by. When I was a kid, 80s air cooled Porsches were like $15,000 cars. And some of those cars just a run of the mill 911 that they made tens of thousands of. It's like 100 grand for some of these things now. And that doesn't compute with me mentally. Like I don't understand. Like I get why the turbos are and I get why the GT3s are. Those are special. But like the AN85 911, like when I was a kid they were, were just cars and I hate to say it but like they're not that, not just cars even now. Like there's a lot of them and they're not that fast and, but I've been, I've been really surprised at the interest in Porsche. Porsche is an automaker that has gone hard after volume in the last 20 years and you would think it would negatively impact them, but the opposite has happened. I'm not really sure how I heard.
- [40:03]
Graham
Though that they say that sales are declining.
- [40:05]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, Porsche's had some trouble because they went real hard on evs and, and now they're, they're trying to figure out what the next step is there but on a. If you look at a. A so over the last 18 months it's been troublesome. But if you look at a 20 year chart, it's pretty crazy. From Porsche sales were here in 05 to here in 25. And yet there's only been more interest in people paying more money for them, right? Like it doesn't, it doesn't make sense. You see now Porsches everywhere, people at Maans are cheap, right? You can, anybody can get. Maans are like around and. But that hasn't stopped people from paying 700,000 doll versions of 911s even though they wear the same badge. Imagine if Ferrari had a, had a 20A $48,000 SUV like it would. People would be like that. That would destroy the brand. But for somehow Porsche has escaped that in this very weird way.
- [40:49]
Jack
You mentioned the speed that the Porsche drives and like the performance of that car and how you're surprised it's going for the price it is with that, with that performance, I wonder, won't we get to a point where just every car is going sub 20 to 60? Like at a certain point you don't want a car that can go 0 to 60 in half a second, right?
- [41:08]
Doug DeMuro
No, totally.
- [41:09]
Jack
And like where do you draw the line? And then after you have performance dialed in, every car is a thousand horsepower. They have crazy to work. What is the.
- [41:17]
Doug DeMuro
What's fun? What makes a car special?
- [41:19]
Jack
Is it just the look?
- [41:21]
Doug DeMuro
That's the, that's, that's I think the big question that everybody's been. And that to me that's one of the reasons why I love my old Lamborghini, my Countach, which is slow, but It's a carbureted V12 and it sounds like nothing in the world. And it looks like nothing in the world old. It has a, it gives you an experience that you cannot get from modern cars. So yeah, you're Tesla, but they're not.
- [41:39]
Jack
Going to purposely make a modern car slow.
- [41:41]
Doug DeMuro
And which is why I think that's one of the things that will continue to drive interest and excitement in these older cars. The, in the, to the Porsche example specifically though, like the car doesn't have to be fast, but like those are slower than minivans. You know what I mean? Like I'm, I'm. Like I'm not, I'm looking for at least a little performance. It sounds like you really haven't griped.
- [42:00]
Jack
With this car, have you, have you driven one?
- [42:02]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. Yeah.
- [42:02]
Jack
And, and how well that it's fine.
- [42:04]
Doug DeMuro
It's just. It's just fine. It's not 100 grand. I will say, though, in my mind, I have recently started to have to kind of come to terms with the fact that, like, what is $100,000, what is $300,000 to me, in my head, is not really what it is anymore. Right. Like, to me, a Ford GT for a long time is a 250 car. Well, that's not true. It's a 450 car. And so like that Porsche, maybe that's what $100,000 is now. And maybe I'm the one who's just slow to adjust. If you look at where prices are, the hundred thousand dollars that could have bought you a very special car 15 years ago, it can't special that special of a car anymore.
- [42:37]
Jack
And so that could inflate the prices of older cars that still have this variability in terms of character and, you know, how they run.
- [42:42]
Doug DeMuro
I think that might be the one thing that modern cars, like you say they can't. They're not going to engineer that into modern cars.
- [42:48]
Graham
I think they. I think they will because I think over the next 10 to 20 years, we're going to see this retro comeback where they're going to have old styles like the old Thunderbird and like that.
- [42:57]
Jack
Cool fit that's not mechanical.
- [42:59]
Doug DeMuro
That is.
- [42:59]
Jack
But it's purely visual.
- [43:01]
Graham
Yes. Because I think every car is going to be, at some point in the future, the same. The same 0 to 60, the same niceness, the same luxury. There's not going to be that much more new. And so if they just repeat what worked in the past and they put, like, I saw that Tesla 300 SL and everyone was saying, I would drive that. That is so cool. I don't care. It looks awesome. I think they could just redo that. They just, they take old cars and they make them new, that modern. That's it.
- [43:28]
Doug DeMuro
There's no doubt there'll be some component of that. Back in the day. Creating a Thunderbird.
- [43:32]
Graham
Yes.
- [43:32]
Doug DeMuro
Involved spinning up a powertrain on a chassis. Well, that's. That stuff isn't. Doesn't exist anymore. There are no chassis. Every car is the same basic platform. Powertrains are, you know, they're like Legos. And so really, it does come down a lot to style, but to your point, it isn't mechanical. Like, if what you're looking for is the mechanical feel, and I think that's what I love so much about the Countach, they probably won't replicate that. They are Doing some of it. Those Hyundais now have this fake shifting in electric cars. So it feels like you're shifting. You're not. You don't have a manual and a pedal, but you have paddles. And the car like hesitates a little.
- [44:05]
Graham
This is actually. Does it give a little boost?
- [44:07]
Doug DeMuro
They engineer that in even though it's really fake. And honestly it feels amazing. It feels like you're driving a good hot hatch like with a, with a gas engine. And so maybe they'll do some of that stuff. I actually think what you're going to start seeing from EVs is because all the cars are going to drive basically the same. They're going to start getting weird with what they can offer. Like you're going to see fish tanks in cars. You're going to see like automakers are going to have to do different things to delineate cars that were once separated by a powertrain or a feel. Or all the cars are going to feel the same. So how do you, how do you distinguish them? Weird stuff. Like, weird stuff.
- [44:43]
Jack
So it's all visual.
- [44:44]
Doug DeMuro
Is what you're saying visual or some features or like weird things you can do while you're driving. Is there going to be like the rear seats in the center and a fold down thing? Have like an air hockey? I'm dead serious. I truly think car companies have got to be thinking about stuff like that because I think that's going to be the future of. Well, that car has a video game display or whatever. Yeah, yeah, right. Like, I really, truly think that kind.
- [45:07]
Jack
Of stuff's going to happen.
- [45:07]
Graham
Do you think people are even going to be driving in the future? Then I took this wayo oh my gosh. And I took it from Santa Monica to West Hollywood for a podcast. Oh my gosh. It was great.
- [45:18]
Doug DeMuro
And so, and so then start thinking about what they could do to distinguish the cars. You, you could put in a bowling alley. You could put a basketball court. Like not really a court, but like you could. You get what I'm saying? Like you could, you could put in a golf sim. Absolutely. Right, right. And you know the, you can only stand up and do it while you're on the freeway or at stop. I don't know what, I don't know how it would work. Right. You'd have to. Or you're strapped in some way. But like you, if you're not even driving, the sky's the limit on the crazy stuff that you could put in cars. I see no reason why that doesn't happen in 25, 35, 45 years.
- [45:49]
Graham
So then what would be the point of buying a car at that point?
- [45:52]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, maybe cars will just be stuff that you hail and it comes to your house or whatever. My, my general feeling is that people enjoy owning car stuff, especially stuff that they need to rely on. But there will definitely be people, I think, in that world that probably won't much more than today. Yeah, I think there are already people who get away with not owning cars in some of these places that. I mean, people do it in New York and Tokyo, where public transportation is great. Take it one step more. What if private transportation was great, too?
- [46:16]
Jack
I think the concept of ownership will never not be desirable because we were actually just talking to someone about they wanted to buy a house. House. Or they didn't want to buy a house because it'd be cheaper to rent. Their wife wanted to buy a house, and they were having this, like, argument back and forth. It was Graham trying to rent a car from the local car. Yeah, it was, like, smooth talking the guy to get us a deal. Thank you, Graham. But the guy was basically lamenting real estate, and he's like, yeah, but my wife loves the concept of, like, owning a home. And I tell her, no, it's not worth it. It's more worth the rent. Doesn't matter. People will be driven by their emotions. They're always going to want to own a home, even if it's objectively cheaper to rent. Same thing goes for cars.
- [46:50]
Doug DeMuro
I think so too. Probably. I. I think, you know, right now, car ownership is some probably crazy percentage of the United States. I could see it declining, significant. But I think there'll always be a. A big market for that. Do people stop you and ask for financial advice? Does that happen a lot?
- [47:03]
Graham
A lot.
- [47:04]
Jack
A lot of people, like, they won't ask for advice, but they'll just like. Like, here's everything.
- [47:10]
Graham
They tell me their life story. I know their income, their net worth, their trajectory, what they're invested in, where they're investing.
- [47:16]
Doug DeMuro
Love that.
- [47:17]
Graham
And the most common is, what do you think of the market right now? Is always that question, or, how's the housing market? What do you think? What do you think's going on right now?
- [47:25]
Doug DeMuro
Say, what do you think of the market right now? Are you just like, I don't know.
- [47:27]
Graham
I give him a broad answer. Well, you know, it could go up, but it could go down.
- [47:32]
Doug DeMuro
Nothing surprises a broad answer.
- [47:34]
Graham
Nothing surprises me.
- [47:35]
Jack
I don't.
- [47:36]
Graham
I don't try to predict anything. It's just because I could be Wrong. And anything can happen on a moment.
- [47:41]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, yeah.
- [47:42]
Graham
Now I'm curious because Jack was looking at BMW i8s the other day. What car could Jack buy and drive for for free?
- [47:50]
Doug DeMuro
Probably not those because I think those are still going down.
- [47:52]
Jack
Okay.
- [47:53]
Doug DeMuro
But you could probably buy those and drive cheap. I mean those, those are now like 40s. Yeah. Like you look at the curve and there's not much curve left. Like that car's never going to be worth 12 so like there's some, you know. But buy and drive for free. I mean. Yeah, like I was saying, Porsches for sure. Like I think like 2000s era Porsches, those kind of things are, are, are definitely not going down. I think a lot of kind of cars like that just sort of that animal analog that those. If you can stomach doing that driving and kind of old school, doesn't have CarPlay, has some miles on it kind of car. You can get away with owning some of that stuff pretty cheap.
- [48:28]
Jack
I would be down to upgrade my fun car right now which is the Mazda Miata. I've had it for years. It's just had non stop issues.
- [48:35]
Doug DeMuro
Really?
- [48:35]
Jack
Surprisingly. Yeah. Usually they're pretty reliable cars but mine has just been such a pain in the butt and so I would be open to upgrading. Graham was trying to convince me of R8 of an old Gallardo.
- [48:45]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, of course.
- [48:46]
Jack
And another One was the i8 because.
- [48:48]
Doug DeMuro
That one's pretty inexpensive, look incredibly cool. They actually drive better than people say. But it's definitely more of a look car.
- [48:56]
Jack
I'd be concerned about reliability.
- [48:57]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, I would be a little bit concerned about that too. Although we get them submitted to us on cars and bids with like real miles and it. And that's like my proxy. If they come in with real miles they probably are not that unreliable. But that doesn't mean they won't be in the next five years. You know, like it's still technology that is kind of sketch. Gallardos are kind of early. Gioros are thought to be unreliable. I don't share that thought. I know people who've had them and have had pretty good experience.
- [49:21]
Jack
Interesting. I heard it was like the second.
- [49:23]
Doug DeMuro
Gen. That's what 6 on is what people say.
- [49:27]
Graham
Yeah.
- [49:27]
Doug DeMuro
But the 0405 cars in my opinion were like best of breed. It was like the, that was like the car like when I was a kid that came out like that was those wheels, like the Cassiopeia wheels that were on the original like a yellow Gallardo. And like that was the car, you know, like Lambo had an entry level car, was a huge deal, like, but I have, I. Most people I know who have had Gallardos have not really had significant issues and some people have driven a lot and R8s. Everyone I know with an R8 doesn't have problems and they enjoy it. However, that car is more sanitized for sure. Like when you, when you're in an R8, then you're starting to get a little bit more towards rational cars. And the question is how?
- [50:02]
Graham
That's what makes it so great. Because you could daily it, you could but drive.
- [50:06]
Doug DeMuro
But you will never get the, like, you'll never get the same feel as, you know, if you had a Lambo walking out to your Lambo, you know, or Even maybe an i8 because it's so cool looking. The R8 is totally, but, you know, there's this sort of spectrum of crazy but unusable and totally normal, like a Prius. The R8 starts to get, it's some, you know, you don't want to go too far on that, on that spectrum if you want something that you actually enjoy.
- [50:28]
Jack
So on the flip side, what car should someone absolutely stay away from?
- [50:31]
Doug DeMuro
It depends on what you're trying to stay away from. Like, is, is reliability your fear?
- [50:37]
Jack
Like, for me, it's like, I just, I do not want anything that distracts me from my day to day if I'm working on the business, if I have, you know, I have my taxes to keep in order, I have my house to keep in order. I have my business, I have my relationships. I don't want a car that's just going to be calling me out all the time or I have to go do this, go run that errand.
- [50:52]
Doug DeMuro
Well, yeah, I mean, then you probably don't want a lambo or an i8. Like, I, I, that's a big thing for me. I have my old Lambo. I have this, this edict that I don't drive it when I have somewhere to be.
- [51:03]
Graham
Yeah.
- [51:03]
Doug DeMuro
Which is when you have a car that's not really just driving it. Yeah, it's a full immersion and it might break down, but yeah, I mean, that's what I think. Honestly, that's one of the reasons that people love Porsches so much, is because they really do provide the experience and the enjoyment. Enjoyment, but they're really usable. And I, I have spent a lot of time with a lot of other cars trying to replicate that overall feeling of usability and enjoyment and there's not a lot of cars that really do that. But in terms of like staying you don't want to then go in your case, you don't want to go too old. You know, 90s starts to get, those cars are getting old. Stuff's breaking in those cars. You don't really want to get older than that. You don't want to, you don't want to get unproven. I mean the i8 plug in stuff, stuff is. Yeah. Do you really want to be responsible for an out of warranty car that cost 130 grand when it was new and used kind of futuristic technology then I don't know, you know, you want to avoid that kind of stuff for sure. You want to get like well maintained, relatively lower mile examples of stuff that's just, you know, usable kind of cars. Basically. I wouldn't go after, you know, I wouldn't go after a Viper. That car is like a lot. It's a lot to handle. It's a lot to deal with. They're actually pretty reliable. But it's a lot, a lot. It's not a car you're trying to be focused in with your daily task.
- [52:15]
Jack
What car wins in the sub $30,000 category? Graham would say the S2000.
- [52:21]
Doug DeMuro
S2000.
- [52:21]
Graham
Oh, I love the S2000.
- [52:22]
Jack
I really love it too.
- [52:23]
Graham
A high mileage Lotus Elise.
- [52:25]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. Which are, which are in that range. Although my, you know, I would still rather have it as 2000.
- [52:31]
Graham
Really.
- [52:31]
Doug DeMuro
The Elise is cool as hell but I had one and it's so fragile. You always feel like you're going to damage it.
- [52:35]
Graham
No, I never felt that way.
- [52:37]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, people tell you not to grab the windshield when you're climbing in because.
- [52:40]
Graham
You might break it. I mean think about that but just don't do that but like think about that stand on the car.
- [52:47]
Doug DeMuro
Nobody's ever said that about my like Toyota Sequoia. Like oh don't, don't grab on to part of it.
- [52:51]
Graham
No, don't touch that. Yeah, you're going to crack the windshield.
- [52:55]
Doug DeMuro
S2000 is a great one because they are dead reliable and they are dead flat in value and they are so much fun to drive. Miatas are good, honestly nd Miatas are, are really desirable cars. What you're is yours.
- [53:09]
Jack
Mine's 2000.
- [53:10]
Doug DeMuro
So at MB NDS are amazing cars and they're. You can get the nicest one in the world for under 30. The fact new they're like only 2031.
- [53:18]
Jack
That's what I was saying. It's like I just get a new.
- [53:20]
Doug DeMuro
Mia but I would probably rather have an S2000 than a new Miata. Even though from a power perspective the S2000 is. At the time it was like a rocket ship and now it's like, you know, not feeling that way anymore. But that's probably what I 30 I would probably get into an S 2000. I like, I like a good Firebird. I like The, a good like 02 Firebird WS6 really let the, the Nebraska out of me, you know. Those are big V8. They look cool. You can get a lot of Mustang for 30. Also like a lot of Mustang V8 manual. Those are cool cars. They drive well too. Modern Mustangs drive really well. I don't know if. Yeah, I, I would probably rather have a Mustang than an S3000 depending on how new I could get it. Yeah.
- [53:59]
Graham
Don't the Mustangs have the stereotype though of always being at the car meets and getting an accident?
- [54:04]
Jack
Totally.
- [54:04]
Doug DeMuro
But s 2000s have a stereotype, right?
- [54:06]
Graham
What's stereotype?
- [54:08]
Doug DeMuro
You know.
- [54:08]
Graham
Oh no, I don't know, like the.
- [54:10]
Doug DeMuro
Tuner culture, you know, like, oh, you're one of those tuner kids. Like, you know, like there's, there's, there's. I feel like every car has something. I will say for 30 if I'm trying to buy something fun, I would definitely focus on American or Japanese. The Euro cars you can get for 30 are going to break your heart. Like they're awesome. They're awesome like United 2M3s and, and even Porsches are getting into that range. You know, boxers and Caymans and, But they're all going to be more expensive to, and kind of deal with compared to, compared to the American and Japanese stuff. Now if you got an ND, we go back to depreciation, right? Spend 30 grand on an ND early NDs are $14,000 cars. So instead of paying the money in repairs, you're going to probably lose a depreciation. So you got to find like the, the kind of mixed medium there.
- [54:52]
Graham
What do you think is the biggest head turner that you could buy for 25,000? 50,000.
- [54:58]
Doug DeMuro
I'm about to do a video.
- [54:59]
Graham
100,250 and a million.
- [55:01]
Doug DeMuro
Okay, 20, 25. You can buy JDM fire trucks. Japanese market fire trucks all day long. So this a Toyota Land Cruiser. The back half is cut off and instead fire equipment. They're bright red. They have 6,000 miles because they were used in Japan, which is compact, to fight fires. So they would go down the road, fight a fire, come home two miles every day. You can buy One of those all day long for 25. If you want to turn heads. Wow. That's what you do. Um, 50, you know, you know what turns heads at 50. There was a car called the T Rex, which looks like a motorcycle. Yeah, it's like a motorcycle car kind of situation that turns a lot of heads for 50. It looks like the Polaris Slingshot, but it's like, even crazier. And it's a more focused driving experience that definitely would turn a lot of heads for 50. I think those are like in the 30s. Getting above that 7,500. Like, I really feel that one of the biggest head turners in that price range is a Lotus Esprit, which I think turn as many heads as a Countach for one sixth of the money. And they are awesome to drive. Servicing is a different conversation. For sure. Those are difficult cars to own, but that car turns all the heads. It's got a, like, at the same low, flat, wide feel as a Countach, the same wedge shape. Very, very special cars. And I, I don't understand why they haven't taken off. Later ones used a V8. They actually have a lot of power. They're actually really fun to drive. And despite the fact that they had a V8 and they were bigger, they, they kind of drive like an Elise. Yeah, above that. Like the million dollar price point. If you want to turn the let's.
- [56:41]
Graham
Do the 250, 250, 250 range. So 150 to 300, 250.
- [56:47]
Doug DeMuro
You can get McLarens at 250 and Huracans that still turn heads. Although not, you know, it depends where you live. Like, you drive a Huracan around Miami, probably in Vegas, nobody looks at those.
- [56:57]
Graham
You know, everyone thinks they're a rental.
- [56:58]
Doug DeMuro
Everybody thinks they're a rental. Yeah. And nobody really looks at them. Even a million's hard. Like, whose head are we trying to turn? Like a million bucks. The Jaguar XJ220. If I saw one of those on the road, I would literally do anything to turn around and go get a. Like, I would kill someone to go and turn around and go get a picture and like, talk to the dude. But a lot of people I don't think would notice it. Like, it's an older car. Yeah. If you're trying to turn like general heads, the Countach does an amazing job of it. And they're under a million. It is incredible to me how many people freak out when they see a Lamborghini Countach that there are cars like that one that have Gone beyond the automotive enthusiasm and have reached like cultural icon status. Like a DeLorean. Honestly, that's another car that probably should be. People freak out when they see a DeLorean. Back to teacher or certain cars that Hummers, everybody knows what original military Hummer like. There are certain cars that just like permeated the cultural zeitgeist beyond just the automotive one. And those cars always bring a lot of attention. I'm stunned how many people freak out about the Countach. People just really, really, really are so excited.
- [58:03]
Graham
What's the craziest reaction you've gotten in the Countach?
- [58:06]
Doug DeMuro
I had a guy almost hit the car in front of him. I've never had someone actually do that, but he was like this close. He was an Miata. But people just, they absolutely lose it. They get so excited. They're following you, taking pictures, you know, that kind of stuff.
- [58:18]
Graham
And have you had any like scary moments though?
- [58:20]
Doug DeMuro
I don't love like some of the risks people are willing to take to get photos of some of the cars. For sure. People are, People are sometimes a little bit excessive and it's like, you know, crossing crazy traffic or whatever, trying to get the right angle shot, hanging out of cars. And that does scare me a little bit. Yeah, for sure.
- [58:38]
Graham
Yeah, I had a really scary moment. You know those little like motorcycle gangs where they, there's like 50 of them and they do like a, like a street takeover. The one time I was driving the Ford gt, guess what? I make a right onto this very wide four lane street going up from the strip and immediately behind me I see all of these kids in those weird like little motorcycle things and they blow through the red light and they're catching up to me and I'm like.
- [59:07]
Doug DeMuro
Gosh, thinking, oh my God, the mirrors aren't in production anymore.
- [59:10]
Graham
They fell off and literally they surrounded the Ford G, surrounded it and they were driving straight. But the kid was like back like this and not looking, taking a video of the car. And all the kids, I didn't tell you, all the kids were going nuts over this thing and then yelling at me like, rev it, rev, rev it. Do this. Do a burnout like this. And I'm just sitting there.
- [59:33]
Jack
Did you do it?
- [59:34]
Graham
No, you think I did? I was surrounded. There's like 40. There were. They were all in front of me and there's a red light and I'm like slowing down to the red light. I'm wondering are they going to slow down to. And they slowed down with me at the red light and they Stopped at the red light to look at the car, and they're taking videos and they got the light turned green and they, and they went forward and, you know, they went ahead of me. But for a moment there, I was petrified that, like all it takes is one of them to just flip over.
- [60:00]
Doug DeMuro
Yep.
- [60:01]
Graham
And then they're, you know, 10ft in front of me if that. And I hit one of them. Right.
- [60:06]
Doug DeMuro
That car scares me because so many parts are not available anymore.
- [60:09]
Graham
Yeah.
- [60:10]
Doug DeMuro
As long as you, like, keep it shiny side up and you like, keep it moving, it's like all good. But like any accident, it's like, know you, you're in a. You're like years into figuring out how to deal with that. And that scares me about that car.
- [60:19]
Graham
Yeah.
- [60:19]
Doug DeMuro
I am surprised how much interest that car brings in my world. Among my cars, I'm very privileged to say that it's like my beater supercar. Like, it's the one I drive to tennis. It's the one I pick up the dog from doggy daycare. And often I forget how special it is out in the real world.
- [60:34]
Graham
You never see them.
- [60:35]
Doug DeMuro
You never see them anymore.
- [60:36]
Graham
I never see them anymore.
- [60:37]
Doug DeMuro
And people don't let me forget. Like, I'll be driving it just like this is my, you know, Bluetooth air conditioning. And that's another thing. It's pretty drivable car.
- [60:44]
Graham
It is.
- [60:44]
Doug DeMuro
So it's, it's not like some of these cars that like, you're, you're so many compromises to use it that you are being constantly reminded what you're. You're driving for. G is pretty usable. And so I'll be sitting there driving it. The dog's next to me or whatever. I just, you know, picked up the mail and people like, freaking out. I'm like, what? I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm in the Ford gt. I forgot.
- [61:03]
Graham
It's the perfect car, though. I mean, it's, it's like the cultural icon of that time. It's American. It's got a built in America too. Built in America. Got the V8, drivable, reliable. And it's Ford.
- [61:15]
Doug DeMuro
Yep.
- [61:15]
Graham
And the parts, I mean, the parts that you can find are cheap.
- [61:19]
Doug DeMuro
Very reasonable.
- [61:19]
Graham
I had to replace the, the little struts for the, the, the back thing. And it was, it was like $100, something dollars for the part. And then plus like an hour of labor.
- [61:29]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. The only drawback to that car that I think would make it like the perfect car. There's no storage at all. Be nice to have a little storage. Sure. Just a little.
- [61:37]
Graham
But I can't see how that wouldn't be worth a million dollars one day.
- [61:40]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. The only thing keeping it, potentially keeping it back is production numbers. It's a. It's. That car hangs in a weird. The other supercars that have gone up like it has their production numbers are in the 1 to 2000 unit range. And then you have cars like the Aventador, the Huracan that were kind of built without regard to production number that were just built as many as they could sell. There's actually not a lot of supercars in the 4 to 4 to 6000 range. The BMW Z8 is another one that's kind of has this weird. In that production range and the market has never really known how to treat that car. It's very cool. It's very special. However there's a lot of them. The Ford GT seems to have. Seems to have beaten out like it should. It's worth more than it should be given how many there are and how available they are. Just because I think it is so special and the design is so special and it is unbelievable that they were able to make the 60s car in with all the modern regulations still look like that. But I agree with you. I. I have. I think that car is. Continues to be valuable. I sometimes think about selling mine because I have these other cars and but it's like why it's going up. It cost nothing to own and I still love using it.
- [62:43]
Jack
Tavares was bothered that Graham Never drives his 4 GT. What are your thoughts on that?
- [62:47]
Doug DeMuro
I think you should do what you want. I just. I, I love driving mine but I get why you would not want to. I think you should drive it some to. It's enjoyable.
- [62:56]
Graham
I do. I drive it on average 15 miles a month.
- [63:00]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah that's what a lot which is really just.
- [63:02]
Graham
And we.
- [63:03]
Jack
We got a good.
- [63:03]
Graham
It's called the Red Rock Loop. Take it on the loop, pull it back and park it.
- [63:08]
Doug DeMuro
The truth is like I, I've. I'm no longer bothered by people's use cases with their vehicles in unless except in very specific circumstances like there are enough 2 mile plastic still on them Ford GTS that if you wanted to use it like it's not like you're ruining a cultural icon. However there's value in that car and if you want to. If you're. You want to have something cool while also preserving value there there's a reason not to use it. And there will always be guys like me who have driven ours a crazy number. And so those are also available to, to buy. You know, like, I do what you want. I, I don't, I don't gatekeep that stuff anymore.
- [63:40]
Graham
What do you think about buying the new Ford gt? Because it seems like if they come down to a certain price, it just makes sense to buy one.
- [63:48]
Doug DeMuro
No, I just, I like ours. Given the choice, I'd rather have ours. I, I, I like first off, the new Ford GT is really cool. It looks cool. It, but, and it drives well. But, but it's, the driving experience is simply too compromised. The car is rough. It's hard to get in, it's hard to get out. It's hard to do anything in that car. You're sitting inches away from the person next to you. It's incredibly low. There's a lot of compromises, number one. Number two, the dealers are already trying to ring wash their hands clean of that car. That car was manufactured at this facility in Canada that is known for building complicated stuff. And that car is complicated stuff. And we're going to see a situation where there are not going to be be able and willing participants in the servicing of that car as it goes on. But also, it's just too race car. Like, at least for me, I like my cars. Th, this car and the Ford GT are very similar in this way that I like my cars to be like, fun. And that car is punishing. Like, maybe I'm too old, but like.
- [64:51]
Graham
You'Re describing my Lotus EXIG S240 though, like, everything you mentioned about it was what I loved about that xee.
- [64:58]
Doug DeMuro
Well, then maybe you'd be into the new 4GT. Like there definitely are people who are into that aspect of it. I just, it, I like a car that is, that is a, that is more usable. I like an NSX. I like a Ford GT, an 05. I like the career GT. I like stuff that is like big enough for a person and usable. I like an sls. I like, you know, that kind of stuff. I also really am a big fan of buying supercars from manufacturers that make regular cars. I think that that means that they get tested better and, and, and they're released in a better way and they're more reliable. So in that sense it might work. But I, I, I'm anxious about how 4 GT ownership will go. Oh, 2017-21 for GT ownership will go over time. I definitely think the dealers, once those are out of warranty, the dealers are going to want nothing to do with.
- [65:39]
Graham
That car now really Quick. We have all been frustrated with shaving. You have expensive refills, blades that dull fast, clogs easily or cause irritation. For something we do regularly, it's surprisingly outdated.
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Jack
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Graham
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Jack
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Graham
Harry's also owns their own blade factory in Germany which allows them to cut out the middleman and keep cost down without sacrificing quality.
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Jack
I mean, just take a look at this, guys. When I used to shave right here on my neck because I like to, I like to keep a straight edge, okay. I like to keep it nice and lined up, I used to get irritation. That's because I have very sensitive skin. Sorry. But then I switched to Harry's and check this out. Tell me if you see any irritation now. And if you don't love your shave, they'll make it right, no questions asked. So it's practically risk free. Just to try it out. For a limited time, our listeners can get the Harry's plus trial set for just $10 at harry's.comiced. you get the plus razor, a five blade cartridge, foaming shave gel and a travel cover.
- [66:55]
Graham
Again, that's Harry's.com the code and link are on the screen as well as down below in the description and make sure to tell them that we sent you. Enjoy. Now, when Jack and I first started the iced coffee hour, we had to figure out everything ourselves. From the best cameras to use, the best editing equipment, how to get guests. Every day was a brand new challenge. That's why if you're starting or growing your own business, you know how valuable today's sponsor is. And that would be Shopify. Shopify is basically your all in one business partner. And they power huge names like Gymshark and Mattel to everyday entrepreneurs just getting started. Also, fun fact, if you've shopped online lately, chances are you've done business with Shopify because they power 10% of all American E commerce. What's great about Shopify is that you get access to a complete design studio with hundreds of ready to use templates to build a beautiful online store that perfectly matches your brand. There's no coding needed, and their AI tools even help you write product descriptions and enhance your product photos. Shopify also makes marketing easy with simple email and marketing campaigns to reach your customers wherever they're scrolling. Plus, they handle everything from inventory to shipping to returns, all the complicated stuff that chances are you don't want to deal with. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing. Sign up for your $1 a month trial at shopify.comich. go to shopify.comich again that's shopify.comich. thanks again to Shopify for sponsoring this episode.
- [68:24]
Jack
Episode I think we asked you this last time, but I'm curious to know your answer this time around. Which is what car has the most smiles per gallon?
- [68:31]
Doug DeMuro
Like literally per gallon or just like per dollar?
- [68:34]
Jack
Like per dollar basically.
- [68:36]
Doug DeMuro
I mean, how is it not Miata S2000 kind of thing, those cars? I often think to myself that if I didn't have, if I didn't have an ego and need to be driving around in like the car that wins cars and coffee, like I could get a, a Cayman GT4, a Boxster Spider, an S2000, a Mustang GT, a Shelby GT350. Honestly that's a really nice car. There's a lot of those cars, but they're never going to like turn heads. But they all those cars provide like real fun for not crazy money. I would get any one of them. I think of those cars and probably a bunch more would be fun. A nice Hellcat would be cool too. Those are fast. They're fast.
- [69:13]
Graham
I'm curious, what car brands do you think just keep getting better and better and better? I'm really focused on improving themselves.
- [69:21]
Doug DeMuro
Most of the of them I would say do, however some of in a different way than others. You know, a lot of enthusiasts would be upset at BMW because although BMW has improved in a lot of ways over the last 30 years, they've kind of left behind what was once a core for them. But the cars are great. Audi continues to do a great job improving. I think Mercedes Benz technology and comfort and refinement is probably better now than at any point in their history. And there's not a lot of car companies I would point to right now as the very best time in their history. And I actually think that Mercedes Benz is in that place right now. I think there are a few brands that I think don't that are maybe that are, that are not refining and improving quite as well Often I find it actually to be a bit of a trade of the Japanese brands that don't really take kind of some of the risks that the other ones do. I have a. I have a Toyota. I love it dearly. It's not. It's not a tech leader, you know, same with Honda. The Koreans are clearly at the very forefront and they are clearly always refining and always really trying new stuff and weird stuff and seeing what sticks in kind of an adventure, admirable way. You look at basically every other brand, and they have a very similar design language and the cars aren't that different. And Koreans are like, we'll do a weird boxy thing here and we'll do a circle thing here, and we'll just see what people like and we'll do weird technology and maybe it'll stick and maybe it won't. And that's kind of been special. And the sales numbers speak for themselves. Those cars have been popular.
- [70:44]
Graham
Who's buying the brands right now? Like Lincoln, Cadillac, Chrysler, Buick, Jaguar, Maguire, Saturn. Do they still do Saturn?
- [70:51]
Doug DeMuro
No.
- [70:52]
Graham
Saturn?
- [70:52]
Doug DeMuro
Saturn, no. But it's okay. It's. It's only been 18 years since the last Saturn rolled off the floor. You just missed it.
- [70:59]
Graham
Saturn dealerships, and it's been a while.
- [71:01]
Jack
I wonder then, will they go up in value? No.
- [71:04]
Doug DeMuro
They only made disposable trash.
- [71:06]
Graham
See, I like the Saturn sky. That was good.
- [71:08]
Doug DeMuro
The sky was good.
- [71:09]
Graham
That was the one that. I was 15 or 16 when that car came out. I thought that was the coolest car there was.
- [71:14]
Doug DeMuro
A turbo version of that with 260 rear wheeel drive horsepower.
- [71:16]
Graham
All.
- [71:17]
Doug DeMuro
Ultimately, Miata was. That was a cool car. Yeah. Who's buying those? I don't know. Those brands are tough. They're in a tough spot. Lincoln especially, because it's sad. They really wanted to invest in Lincoln and they should have invested a little more. Lincoln actually makes some good cars, but they're not finding a lot of buyers. Yeah, Chrysler in general is in a lot of trouble. Cadillac is trying to really revitalize. Yes. They got Formula one now. You know, at the end of the day, Escalade will always be a big success. And they're. They've always tried to build on that. And I think they're actually in an okay place right now. Now, Cadillac leaned a little too far into electric, though, and I think that might hurt them. But there are people for those cars. But those brands just. They haven't for. For 50 years, they haven't quite been as strong as European and Japanese rivals.
- [71:58]
Graham
Cadillac, I thought like throughout the 70s and 80s was supposed to be like the Rolls Royce of American cart.
- [72:05]
Doug DeMuro
It literally was. I mean, Cadillac was the aspirational automotive brand in the world. And American brands in general, Duesenberg, like the Packard, those brands. America was the standard of the world in the that era. And, you know, things kind of changed and Cadillac sort of lost that. I don't know, you know, the gas crisis. And they, they rested on their laurels and this and that. You can point to a lot of stuff throughout that era. But ultimately the Germans showed up and really knew how to build a luxury car. And then the Japanese showed up and that was another blow. And. But Cadillac still has some competent products. No one makes a big. A big SUV like Cadillac, and that's still popular. And those are popular globally. I mean, you go anywhere in the world and people want Escalades. You know, that's like a thing even. They don't even sell it in every market, but they, they find a way. You know, you see them in Japan. It doesn't matter where.
- [72:49]
Graham
What types of cars are people most drawn to right now? Is it the midsize? Are we seeing sedans becoming less popular?
- [72:56]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, I mean, SUVs are going to remain. I think, I think I remember 15 or so years ago, Chrysler canceled all of its sedans and we were like, we're done. SUVs are the future and it's going to be a permanent shift. And I thought that was really bold. And boy, has that turned out to be true. People don't want cars anymore. Car, cars. The sedan is shriveling now. I will say the popular sedans, there's still a long life left. The Honda Accord and Toyota Camry and Prius. And the popular cars still are going to go for a while, but the writing is on the wall. With the future of, of, you know, the car, it will kind of more and more become a little bit more of a niche product. I suspect is people just want to set up higher and there are no compromises with SUVs anymore. It used to be compromised on ride quality and fuel efficiency and all this stuff, and you just aren't anymore. They, they drive like cars.
- [73:43]
Jack
Which Carmake has consistently disappointed you over the past few years?
- [73:47]
Doug DeMuro
Few years? Past few years.
- [73:49]
Jack
Like which car make just progressively gets worst?
- [73:52]
Doug DeMuro
I wouldn't say progressively gets worse. But I have consistently found myself disappointed with Honda and with its inability to really go out and take, take some of the risks that its rivals are taking. Honda has like six core products that are the best in the segment, you know, the Odyssey, the Accord, the Civic, the crv. Hrv. Like those. The cars that you buy. Like those. Of course you buy those. But other than that there, there've never been a concerted effort to try to like improve in other directions. And when they do it, they're so cautious. Cautious. Even with Acura, they're so cautious they're not actually going after what they could be doing and spending money to really try to conquest. They're just sort of like holing up at the six car core and, and not really taking substantive leaps. You know, Toyota has made a ton of money in the last 10 years with off road SUVs. Honda won't touch it. Pickup trucks has been a massive sales success for a lot of companies, including Toyota. Honda won't touch it. Mostly the luxury brands. Honda has never funded Acura or strategically given Acura what they need to really succe. And you look at some missed opportunity there and that's disappointing to me.
- [74:50]
Jack
It's weird. Even Acura is another one of those companies where I'm like, what is their target demo? Who buys Acura is why would you buy an Acura if you could just go buy like a Lexus.
- [74:59]
Doug DeMuro
They only at this point Acura is down to basically two products which are SUVs. There's a midsize of the RDX and a larger one called the MDX. And the people who buy them, honestly what it is is people who can't quite afford the Mercedes Benz or BMW or Audi equivalent.
- [75:12]
Jack
But like Lexus.
- [75:12]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, Lexus is there too. And Lexus now has its most competitive SUV lineup of all time. So if I were accurate, I'd be especially anxious, anxious right now. Acura's tend to be maybe a little bit cheaper than Lexuses and there are some people who are really sold on Honda reliability. But if that's your core, that's not a great, you know, you want to be growing. Yeah, that's not really a great core to have necessarily.
- [75:31]
Jack
There are just some car brands out there where I'm like, why do you even exist? I feel like you could have for the average person maybe five brands and that's kind of like all you need.
- [75:41]
Graham
Like in and out, like just the menu. It's five items.
- [75:44]
Jack
Toyota, Honda.
- [75:46]
Graham
Yeah, Tesla.
- [75:48]
Doug DeMuro
You probably could like, I don't know what all these other people would eventually fit into one of those bucks.
- [75:52]
Graham
Yeah.
- [75:52]
Jack
If they. Lincoln. Yeah. It's just like, I don't like when there are so many better alternatives for more reliable Companies, there's just no. I don't know who's buying those.
- [76:00]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, there. That is definitely true. You. Most people would definitely fit into one of those boxes if they absolutely had to. However, people like choice and automakers are good at style in some cases and marketing in ways that others aren't. And you know, does. Does Audi do anything better than BMW or Merced, Mercedes Benz? Maybe, maybe not.
- [76:19]
Jack
However, they have a demo. Like, it makes sense. They have a demo.
- [76:22]
Doug DeMuro
And so like those, The Audi demo wants an Audi. Right. Like, and you could draw that. You could, you could make that to all 35 major car brands. Right. You could make people. There are people who want Volvo. I, I have a lot of neighbors where I live who do not want to own a Mercedes Benz, a BMW, the showy ones, they want a luxury car, but they want a Volvo because.
- [76:40]
Jack
Volvo people are fanatical. I have never really realize how crazy.
- [76:46]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. These people about their decision. And you can see how they kind of arrived at their conclusions, you know.
- [76:52]
Graham
So what are the best, cheaper alternatives that you've seen?
- [76:55]
Doug DeMuro
Honestly, mainstream brands are making the best cars that they ever have, like a Prius. The current Prius is a amazing car. The current Honda Civic hybrid is an amazing car. They're going to be a little louder. They're not going to quite have the level of refinement in the stitching on the seats and all that. But like, you know, 25 years ago, I get in some of these cars we have in the office, you know, the 95 Toyota Camry. You get in some of these cars and they're so bare bones. And that's not true of regular cars anymore. Regular car now has heated seats, has heated rear seats as cooled seats, has a heated steering wheel, has a 14 inch center screen with carplay. Like, I sometimes think about this, like, I got a Subaru Outback press car at my house right now and I'm thinking, why is anybody spending more than this if you're not into cars and you're spending more than $46,000 for a.
- [77:42]
Graham
Why?
- [77:43]
Doug DeMuro
Unless this is a thing that you're literally enthusiastic about, this gives you everything you could possibly need, you know, and that's true of a lot of different mainstream cars right now.
- [77:53]
Graham
What do you think of the Hyundai Genesis? That looks kind of like the Bentley.
- [77:57]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, no, the Genesis brand has been taken off. The Hyundai has seen that there's a lot of money in Lexus and Mercedes Benz and they want to go get that. Tough time to be launching a brand like that. But they Seem to be doing a decent job of it. They now have a couple SUVs which are, which are pretty successful. Jury's still out on whether that brand will be successful. It really is going to depend on exactly how much investment they're willing to give it. But I think they're great. And one thing that Genesis is doing that other brands are not doing is they are specifically targeting luxury. So many brands have focused on sport and performance. So like so many cars, when you get in the seats are pretty tight and they've got this sporty looking interior and bright red, red lighting. And Genesis has specifically said we're going to go after the buyers who don't care about that but want like a really high quality. So it's nice aluminum and leather everywhere and everything. And there's, there's something to that for sure. It is a nice car.
- [78:50]
Graham
And what about futuristic tech that you've seen? What are you most looking forward to that? Bowling alleys?
- [78:57]
Doug DeMuro
I'm telling you, there's a lot of great stuff. I mean I think the continued advancement of cell driving is, is going to be the greatest thing that ever happened to like American commuters. I don't know if how often you use your self driving.
- [79:13]
Graham
I never use it.
- [79:14]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, I use it. It is the greatest thing in my life when I'm, when I'm on those types of drives. Like if you're in bumper to bumper, you probably, you don't commute right. So you probably not. But you can imagine like if you're commuting like to, to San Diego from Temecula or from you know, outside Houston or what like there's, you know, you're sitting in bumper to a bumper on, on the 405 or the D.C. beltway. Like you don't have to do anything. That's kind of nice. And that's the tech that I am. Even as a car enthusiast I'm most excited for. I think the daily driver. Cars should be appliances and can be appliances and that's totally fine.
- [79:46]
Graham
What do you think of them turning all of these things then into subscriptions? It just seems like more and more and more companies are leaning towards hey, if we get all these people on a subscription with us, we'll make a lot more money.
- [79:57]
Doug DeMuro
Sure. But I mean, you know, that's the right business model. So if you can trick people, or trick is the wrong word, convince. If you can convince people to do it, the automakers are really hoping they can convince people to do it, then they're gonna do it. So the question is how hard is, are people gonna push back and that kind of thing? I mean, what do I think of it? I don't wanna do it, but like, do I wanna do anything? Do I wanna have 19 different TV subscriptions so that every time my son wants to, wants to watch something, I gotta actually Google how to watch it, you know, before I can actually watch it? That's insane. Yeah, but like, that's the best way for those companies to monetize those things. And that may happen with cars if, if we let it.
- [80:35]
Graham
You know, I think they're going to have a subscription for everything. Like, you want a subscription for tires?
- [80:39]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [80:40]
Graham
Just pay monthly. This low price will give you new tires every time you need it.
- [80:44]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, I never thought there'd be like a phone subscription, but that's exactly what it has is the thing now or.
- [80:48]
Graham
I've seen the remote start subscription.
- [80:51]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [80:52]
Graham
For 20 bucks a month, you get to remote start your, your car, get access to the.
- [80:56]
Jack
What does that even mean?
- [80:57]
Graham
If you want to preheat the car.
- [80:59]
Jack
But you just have hardware that.
- [81:02]
Graham
Yeah, but you have to unlock it with this.
- [81:03]
Doug DeMuro
But there are some benefits to this remote because it's, it's through their, it's through like their, their like app that, that kind of controls like, where the car is positioned and all that. So like, let's say, let's say I flew out at the airport. My wife's coming in the next day. You know, she doesn't have the key on her. I can start the car from my, my app. I'm in Hawaii, I can start the car for her and she drives it home and then gets the key. She doesn't have to carry it with her, whatever. Like, you can imagine scenarios where you might want it. I, I didn't do it in my Sequoia. Once. This, once the free period ended, I, I gave up.
- [81:35]
Graham
I could see them also adding a subscription for different drivers in the car. Like if, if a driver wants to, you know, I put jack on my Tesla key card. It's like, that's 10 bucks a month.
- [81:43]
Doug DeMuro
All of this stuff could happen. The question is, you know, will people let the automakers get away with it? So far, no automakers have tried. Like, like, I think it was BMW, tried heated seats. And there was such a backlash that people, that people. I actually find it odd how big of a backlash there is, because it, to me, it's almost entirely a consumer. It's like a way of framing your thought, really. Like, we have no problem paying 10 grand more for the bigger engine. But we have a problem paying 150 bucks a month more for the, for the freaking electric car for like the more power. And if think about it, it's not that different, right? How, how many you had the bigger engine, you paid ten grand more for it. How long did you own the car? Divide that by the number of months. That's how much you paid per month. Right. Like it makes some sense, but that's not how people think about it. And, and we made that. We, we tried to go down that road in our podcast as like a thought exercise and people were vicious. That's not how they think about it. You know what?
- [82:38]
Graham
I want to make a prediction. I think for electric cars, you're going to have to pay a subscription to unlock more range and more power. Power.
- [82:45]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, there. There are, there are already evs that, that make you pay more for more power if you want it. Yeah, it's actually, you know, it's interesting because done right, the subscription model for features actually would. Could benefit the consumer. Like what if you only want a car that has a heated driver seat? Right. But I want a car, I got a family. I want a car that has all the heated seats. So you don't have to pay as much as me. You pay the $2 a month for the heated driver's seat. I pay the 20 for the. You. You get the point. Like, you could actually see a way. But of course the, the companies will not structure it in a way that will benefit the consumer. But you could see. See that happening. Like, do I, do I need a radio in a car anymore? I only ever hook up my phone and use Bluetooth. I don't care about satellite radio. I don't care that it's even installed. The module's even there. I would happily pay the lower amount, you know, but with hardware that's difficult to do, but with software, you could see it potentially.
- [83:30]
Graham
What's that one car that you could buy for really cheap where you like.
- [83:34]
Doug DeMuro
Assemble the slate truck? Yeah, yeah.
- [83:38]
Graham
It's like a bare bones thing and you pay for every little thing, thing extra. Like, you want a radio that's going to be.
- [83:43]
Jack
How expensive is the base model of it?
- [83:45]
Doug DeMuro
There's been a lot of talk. We'll see is the answer. Like they said it would cost X, but it's ev and that included the, the subsidies which have gone away since they announced it. So who knows? But also like, who knows what these things actually cost by the time they reach the market, you know, five years from now? It's a cool idea. The thing that has generally stopped that has been manufacturing like it is difficult to have like a menu. It's much easier to. Okay if they get the satellite radio. They also get the heated seats and they also get the heated steering wheel. And then the manufacturing process, it makes manufacturing a lot easier, which in a way I think has probably made some of those features just generally cheaper. That's what's been hard for automakers to do it. Cars that had individually selectable options, it was always more expensive than, than like bundled packages.
- [84:27]
Jack
What's one feature that every single car that's made in 2026 should have?
- [84:31]
Doug DeMuro
I don't know. I don't think there's an anything that's like that essential that isn't mandated by the government.
- [84:37]
Jack
Okay, sure.
- [84:39]
Doug DeMuro
Like backup cameras. But they, you have to like. I think most people, you know, you should still be able to kind of choose what you want. And some people really do want bare bones, ultra low end stuff.
- [84:49]
Jack
Sure.
- [84:49]
Graham
But like I'm gonna say something. Let me say I think it's perfect. Front facing cameras.
- [84:54]
Doug DeMuro
Front cameras are really nice. Very. Not that many cars have them at all. I do think a camera, rearview mirror is the greatest feature I've ever had in any car. And I think it should be an all car cars. I do think that this is going to get me in trouble with the car enthusiasts, but I do think that hybrid technology has proven itself and is already in most cars, but probably needs to make its way into basically every car at this point. Not necessarily plug in, not full ev, but there are now ways to have mild hybrids that control certain components of the car or that fill in a little bit extra in terms of power when you're accelerating. And they're really beneficial in terms of fuel economy. And they don't seem to add that much more to the price other than that. I. Yeah, front camera's nice, but the automaker can charge for that. You'll pay it, you know, you know.
- [85:43]
Graham
That'Ll be a subscription to have access to the rear camera.
- [85:46]
Doug DeMuro
You know, there are a lot of cars that like come with the thing and unless you pay the money, the thing is physically like behind a thing. Like, and it's like laughable. But that's like how it's done sometimes.
- [85:57]
Graham
Yeah. How's cars and bids doing?
- [85:59]
Doug DeMuro
Good, Strong. My best year ever. Last year. We're doing really well. We hired a new CEO about a year ago who's done a great job really optimizing the business for success. And we're running the most auctions we've ever run, we're selling the most cars we've ever sold and things are good.
- [86:17]
Graham
How does the CEO run the business different from you?
- [86:19]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, I didn't, let me be clear. I didn't run the business nor am I qualified to. Okay, I make YouTube videos as a profession. Like I shouldn't be running a business but, but he's, he, he's a CEO. Like it's interesting. I, I, I've, now that I'm in this world, like, it's interesting to see kind of people who operate at a high business level operate, you know, like they know what to do. They have like an instinct, like I have an instinct about cars and about driving. Like they have an instinct about, like, here's what to, you know, here we should do this instead. Things I hadn't thought about how to, how to optimize or strategize and make things processes improve and streamline it easier, easier for our employees, easier for our users, users, et cetera. It's kind of interesting.
- [86:57]
Graham
What's been the most surprising.
- [87:01]
Doug DeMuro
I don't think any individual thing has necessarily been tremendously surprising other than the overall. Like we thought we were running the business pretty well before and then we hired a guy who knew what he was doing and it was like, oh, that surprised me. Like I didn't know that such a thing was out there. You know, it's interesting to work with like world class people. It really is. That shocks me.
- [87:21]
Jack
How many employees do you have?
- [87:23]
Doug DeMuro
35, something like that.
- [87:24]
Jack
And how many work on cars and bids?
- [87:26]
Doug DeMuro
All. Well, cars and bids on my YouTube channel are now under the same umbrella. Okay. They're the same thing. So all of us work on collaboratively and all, all of it.
- [87:34]
Graham
How is your income broken down then between cars and bids and YouTube and like everything else you have?
- [87:40]
Doug DeMuro
I'm a W2 man. I earn a salary. So I sold, you know, the majority of the business combined the YouTube channel and cars and bids into one business. Well, sold them separately. But now we're combined into one business. That was the, the I sold the majority to from the training group and now I just am a salaried employee.
- [87:57]
Jack
How long do you have to work on the YouTube channel in that contract?
- [88:01]
Doug DeMuro
Well, I mean it's, I get good, I get a good salary and I love the work. So like I'm gonna keep doing like what the hell else would I do? Look at me like, is it the only job I've ever had?
- [88:10]
Jack
Is it, is it a part of the contract to, I mean, you know.
- [88:14]
Doug DeMuro
There was a, there was a, there was sort of like an earn out period. Basically where I got, you know, if I worked for a certain number of years that I got up, there was a carrot that I could grab if I wanted it and I did that. But like, I'm not stopping. Like, I truly don't know what else to do. You know what I mean? Like, I, I.
- [88:30]
Graham
You would be doing it regardless.
- [88:31]
Doug DeMuro
I would do it anyway.
- [88:32]
Graham
I saw the video you posted recently of would you retire?
- [88:35]
Doug DeMuro
Like if, if I wasn't doing this, I think I would do it right. Like, if I wasn't doing it for cars and bids. I restart my own channel and just like do it on a smaller scale again.
- [88:45]
Jack
Is it more enjoyable to be a W2 than it is to be a business owner?
- [88:49]
Doug DeMuro
I think it really depends on who you are. It depends on, on who you are, how much money you got and where in your career and your, in your family life you are. For me, it has been better. It has been nice to take a step back. It has been nice to hand the reins to someone who knows what he's doing, who is, who has optimized the business in a way that I never could have. That's been great. It's a little weird to like, I'm a salary guy like that, you know, my whole life I've been selling.
- [89:13]
Jack
It must be nice though, knowing how much you're earning.
- [89:15]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, that helps that if the variability of YouTube was punishing. However, I also remember months that were crazy and you'd celebrate. I mean, I remember some months where it was really cool, you know, it was like, I can't believe this happened.
- [89:28]
Graham
Do you get less joy though when you see a video hit like 3 million views or like a 1 out of 10 because it's, you don't. It's like the same either way.
- [89:36]
Doug DeMuro
Totally. Although I actually think my audience benefits from that because you know, you guys and everybody else who's on YouTube in that world, like kind of games that you put the best videos up at the end of the quarter, end of the year, like make the most money. How can I ask? Optimize this? I got no problem shooting a video with a car that I'm interested in and that this sliver of my audience is interested in, even if I know it's not going to kill. And, and I love that, you know, that's, that's, that freedom is cool.
- [90:02]
Graham
But see the most viewed video in your channel is that $150,000 pickup truck.
- [90:07]
Doug DeMuro
I'll never forget that. Yeah, yeah, right.
- [90:10]
Graham
More than the Bugattis and the Ferraris.
- [90:12]
Doug DeMuro
But on balance, those, those types of videos have done better. Like, if you really look at, if you, if you have a, a spreadsheet with all of it. The supercar hypercar videos have always done, you know, x. X amount higher than. But I like the. Really sometime I actually love doing supercar hypercar videos too, because they, they're very creative, those cars. But I like doing the weird stuff too. And, and now I can financially justify it because, yes, you see a video hit 3 million views, you don't get all that money, any of it. But you see a video hit, you know, half the views is normal. You don't get penalized. And that's kind of nice. Yeah.
- [90:43]
Jack
What's your current involvement in the business? Like, what are the things that you're responsible for?
- [90:47]
Doug DeMuro
Primarily just creating the content and trying to, you know, be a good funnel to get people to cars and bids.
- [90:53]
Jack
Thumbnails. Like, what are you.
- [90:55]
Graham
Thumbnails? What thumbnails?
- [90:58]
Doug DeMuro
We have, we have an editor named Nick who does most of our, who does our video editing and does a lot of that kind of stuff. We fight about titles, me and Sean, who's our head of content. Um, but I don't, I definitely don't. I'm not involved in the weeds like I used to. People ask me, I, I, I still kind of know the view numbers, more or less, but, like, people ask me, you know, specifics and the stuff I would have known cold five years ago. And I'm.
- [91:22]
Jack
And do you enjoy that?
- [91:24]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, I mean, I had. So this, this all coincided with me having kids. And so I'm kind of famous in our world now for kind of saying no to everything. Like, it upset Sean. Sean. I've kind of, I issued an edict. There's. If you go, maybe I've told the story. But if you go up the 405, if you go up the freeway at the 405 and 73, there's a giant Hyundai headquarters building. And I've told everybody that I won't go north of there for any reason. I used to go to LA every week to shoot. You know, there was this car or that car, or this little carrot dangling. Like, if you go to Texas, you can get this video done. And it's been nice to spend the time with my family. And due to my amazing staff and crew, we've not really been penalized on views. We've brought cars to our office. I didn't have an office. Before, I would shoot Mormon church parking lots. That was my whole life. Now we have an office. The cars come to us. Obviously, that ratchets up the cost, but there's a larger business that can help defray those costs. And we haven't been penalized in views, even though I clearly am not. I'm releasing content at the same level. The content is just as good. The amount of content is just as frequent.
- [92:26]
Graham
I would agree with that as a viewer.
- [92:28]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, the amount is just as frequent. In fact, we're doing more content than before. But I definitely don't have to grind as much. And within my world, where I have a family now, which is definitely my most important thing, that's. That's big to me.
- [92:38]
Jack
What made it the right choice to take your foot off the gas? Was it the family coming in? Was it an age thing? Was it a finance thing where you're finally. I'm financially comfortable. I don't necessarily need a grind, you know, pedal to the metal.
- [92:51]
Doug DeMuro
It was all those things. But I mean, I would. I would. I would sort of argue against the take your foot off the gas thing, because I. We're actually making. I'm. I am making more content than. Than I was before. It's just that I'm not doing the, like, hard little stuff, sitting in the car, going up to la, editing the videos while I'm sitting on my cat, like that stuff. The really hard stuff. I. I've been able to. So, like, from a content perspective and making the content and honestly enjoying making the content. I, I'm still like the same dude I always was. I don't think I've taken my foot off the gas in that level. And I think our numbers reflect that. And honestly, I think our viewers feel that way too. Clearly.
- [93:23]
Jack
Do you enjoy making the content more now than you did back in the day then? Since back in the day, you'd have.
- [93:28]
Doug DeMuro
To do this stuff. It depends on exactly what content it is. I will say there are times when I'm reviewing the new Nissan Sentra and I'm sitting here thinking, why am I doing this? But most of the time, I either enjoy it just as much or more.
- [93:41]
Jack
Do you wish then that you said no to those things a little earlier?
- [93:45]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, but I couldn't have. You know the ground. You guys know the ground? Yeah. I mean, did you watch Hoovy's video? Hoovy had a video come out. It was so sad. He. He. His dog got hit. He was running in the street and his dog got hit.
- [93:55]
Graham
No I didn't see that.
- [93:56]
Doug DeMuro
And he, and he basically made the point that, like, between that and he, he had a. He. He had this mishap with his 300 SL where he hit this door, hit the. He was like, I've been doing a lot of stuff that my focus is lost because I'm just grinding so hard and my foot is on the gas so hard. And that resonated with me so much. Like, when you're in this space, you can't not, you know, like, I was just talking to a guy at the, at the Lambo dealer who told me he had a kid and he took two weeks off. And like, you're in sales, you take two weeks off. That's two weeks you're not going to make. Like, it's hard to do. And that's true of our profession as well, or not mine any longer. But now, like, it's. If you take time off, that's just money out of your pocket. Like, and you, you lament that and then you have to think, is it worth it? And, and it's that that stuff is, is hard. But, but to answer your question, like, at that period, I couldn't have done that. I realized that it was a rare period where I was going to be able to earn at that level and be at that level of content and views and stuff. And I, I had my foot on the gas for that whole time. It had to go hard, and I don't think I could have slowed down any earlier.
- [94:58]
Graham
When is that the right time to take your foot off the gas then?
- [95:03]
Jack
Or at least to say no to more things that you don't want to do.
- [95:06]
Doug DeMuro
I think the right time is when all, if, at least for me, it was when all those things. Things came together. I had gotten a big payout and it was financially independent. Like, at that point my family showed up and, and the, the. You know, at some point you are getting old. I mean, it doesn't look very physical what I do, but, like, it took a toll being in the hot sun every single day, filming videos, getting into the backs of stupid cars, being on the road, driving to this or flying to that every week. Like, it. After a while, it, it becomes a lot. And, and so if you can, if you can find yourself in a financial and in a familial situation where you can, where you can maybe take a break from that level of grind, I think it's a nice thing to do.
- [95:47]
Graham
See, most people aren't in that situation where they have all these things happen at the Same time they're in, like, a boil.
- [95:53]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [95:54]
Graham
Where it just keeps growing, keeps growing, and it's, you know, eventually kind of reaches the tipping point. But that could be when you're like, 70 or 60.
- [96:02]
Doug DeMuro
I will say, like, one of the things I watch, though, with these people is that they complain about how difficult this is and how much the grind is, and yet I see them ratcheting up their. Their personal. Personal expenses. You know, they want to get one more car, they want to get one more house, whatever. And it's like, that's just another X number thousand that you got to hit every month. And I think another thing that has helped me stop and kind of slow down is that I got everything I want. Like, I truly don't really. I'm not sitting here thinking that I want any more cars or any more property. I'm, like, cool with what I have. And there's something nice about that, too, that, like, I know that my spend will probably never go higher than it is right now. And I think that if you're in sort of an accumulation phase in your world, that also makes it really hard to stop grinding and grinding harder and chasing every last little thing. And I think there's not a lot of people who get to a point where they say, I have what I want. I think most people, especially when they reach financial levels that are, you know, pretty significant financial levels, they see their peers who are flying private and their peers who have this car or that house, and they're like, I want that. I want that. And they. They gotta keep ratcheting. Gotta keep ratcheting.
- [97:01]
Jack
Was.
- [97:01]
Doug DeMuro
And I'm. I'm. I'm unusual in that respect.
- [97:04]
Jack
Was getting to that point of satisfaction a product of acquiring wealth, or was it just a change in the mentality?
- [97:10]
Doug DeMuro
I think it was literally that I just, like, dreame. Dreamed of having a few things, and then I got them all, and I don't have any more dreams.
- [97:16]
Jack
So it was actually getting the thing.
- [97:18]
Graham
Yeah.
- [97:19]
Doug DeMuro
And getting the thing itself wasn't as satisfying as I thought it would be. Like, it was great, but I think the most satisfying thing was knowing that it was knowing that I don't have to. To. To grind anymore. That's a big deal for me. It's not for everybody. Some people love it. You know, I talked to some people who have sold their business for many times what mine is, and they're, like, working on their next thing. And I'm sitting here like, what the hell? But for some people, like, they. You can't stop they can't turn off off. And, And I, I'm not judging that. Like, what I like right now in my world is hanging out with my kids, volunteering at their school and going swimming with them in the pool and, and building Legos. And we build a lot of Legos. Like, that's what I like right now. But I know there are a lot of people out there, parents, dads, people who don't want that, who, like the next thing is like, really actually what they. What. What is what they like, what is interesting to them. And I. That's. That's their thing. That's fine.
- [98:09]
Graham
Do you feel like you got less moj. Motivated though? Once you hit those metrics and got those things that now all of a sudden there's no more like, push to.
- [98:17]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, for sure. I. There were definitely some things that were motivating at a high level, but I'm still motivated for our business to do well and for. I, I hired all my friends to work here and so I'm motivated for them to have some of the success that I had. And also, most importantly, I am like just intrinsically motivated by this work. I truly love to do these stupid car reviews. And so like, there's not a part of me that is sitting there going like, I'm not doing this. I don't want to do this. This sucks. Like, I really like it. And so like, am I less motivated to chase the more numbers and all that. Yeah. But I still, I don't know, I still love it. I still love doing it. Like, it's crazy to me. That's the dream to find a job where you just really, really, like, really can't stop love. It is like, that's very special to be in that situation for sure where I come into work and basically no matter what car I'm reviewing, I pull it into the garage here and I, I think to myself, okay, let's do this. Like, I'm excited.
- [99:14]
Graham
What's your schedule? Like? I sh.
- [99:16]
Doug DeMuro
You know, I shoot videos in this office most, most days of the week, but my son gets off School at 2:30 and so most of the time I'm. I'm basically there when he's around, so. And I play tennis every day. So it's a. It's a nice, It's a nice balance, you know.
- [99:31]
Graham
And where are you investing these days?
- [99:35]
Doug DeMuro
Pretty much exclusively index funds.
- [99:37]
Graham
Nice. That's just S and P. We just do.
- [99:40]
Doug DeMuro
I'm. I'm now heavier on bonds. There's a. We can get really into that Your audience likes this stuff. So we, I'm a, there's now a, an etf, that's California Municipal bonds, which is tax free for high earners. It's in California, it's a big deal. And so I got a lot of money on that too.
- [99:54]
Graham
But what's the yield on that?
- [99:56]
Doug DeMuro
It's like, it's like three and a half tax free, which is really good. Yeah. If your income is at a level where you, I mean you do the math. Taxes. But I've done it and it works for me. Yeah, it won't someday I'll have to figure something else out if bond yields go up. But anyway, so, so I got a lot of money in that too. And that's it. I have, I've, I'm a, you know, VTI or vt, one or the other depending on which and my California muni one and that's it, that's all. And then I got, I got two houses and I got the cars which I think are, they're never as good investments I think as the market is going to be. But I am a big fan of diversification for a lot of reasons. So.
- [100:30]
Jack
And what about spending? How much does your garage cost you per month?
- [100:33]
Doug DeMuro
The garage, the cars, you know, they're not that crazy. I just paid my insurance bill is 18 grand for the year. That's for the non daily drivers. For the daily drivers like another three. So 20 grand. And then I have like a, what is my budget on car maintenance? It's like every year is like 35 I think and 45, something like that. And if I go above that, we got a problem now last year I went way above it. So we're hoping for the, the best here.
- [101:03]
Jack
That's not bad though.
- [101:04]
Graham
It's really not.
- [101:04]
Doug DeMuro
No, it's not. It's, it's so tavarish. What are you saying?
- [101:07]
Graham
But, but he's got loans on some of these cars. He's financed some of these cars.
- [101:11]
Doug DeMuro
SARS has.
- [101:12]
Graham
Yes.
- [101:12]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. And I, I don't, I, I, I, I got all my money post the, the, the, the rates going up and so I took out a loan on that when I first got it, but the rate was so high I just decided to pay it off. So. Which is crazy, but I can't figure out a better allocation the of cap. Now if I had known what was going to happen in the stock market in the last three years, I would have done something differently. But you don't know. And it's not like I did poorly. So yeah, it's not that it's not that significant. It's like so the cars cost me maybe like 60, 60 grand a year to own 70, something like that even that's like higher than I want it to be. To be honest, I would really prefer it to come down. I bought this Porsche like 3 months ago kind of on a whim and I vaguely regret it. But other than than that, that, but that's part of like the being satisfied thing. I think one of the reasons the cars are not that expensive to own is because I have three, essentially three really special sports cars. And that's all I want. I don't want to do anything else. And when you buying and selling cars, that's where a lot of costs are incurred. There's a lot of transaction costs and there's also a lot of. When you buy a car, it's never in the represented in the shape that you, you know, that you hope it was. And you always have to put some money into it. At least I do. And then when you're using it a lot, this new car, you want to change this and that, whatever. But when you have three cars that you sort of settle into, you're not making mod applications to them anymore. You already know the service history, you've done the important service work and you just kind of at that point it's just maintenance.
- [102:32]
Graham
What do you think would make cars and bids even bigger if we could.
- [102:35]
Doug DeMuro
More effectively communicate to people, especially sellers, that you get the most money selling on cars and bids versus Facebook marketplace or whatever. Like it is wild to me and I know how wild it is because we, I've had a bunch of my friends do it. They'll find a car that is poorly represented on Facebook Facebook marketplace. Dude just wants a quick sale, you know, his thumbs over the license plate and my friends will buy the car. You know, put clean it up, put a good set of stock wheels on it Instead of the 20 inch whatevers, you know, make it look nice, do a little service. Two, three grand, fix whatever's leaking, listen on cars and bids six months later and like they'll make 50% and it's like seller. If you had just put three grand into this car, you could have had another 30 grand in upside or 20 grand and upside. And my. This is like a side business that a lot of my friends are doing now because they're close to the auction world and they, because of me and we talk about it at our dinner or whatever and, and they see how much like Delta there is in what Some people are stupid and just want a thing gone and how. How much it could go for. And I just wish we could more effectively communicate that. It takes longer. The process takes longer. You have to get the car photographed. Well, you have to clean the car. It is not like Facebook Marketplace where you walk out to your driveway and you take two pictures in your underwear and then you put it up. But some people maybe don't care about the extra five grand or eight grand or 12 grand, but I bet most of them do and just aren't realizing that this is available.
- [103:58]
Graham
It seems like you should be offering some sort of service like a real estate agent. Of cars.
- [104:02]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [104:03]
Graham
Where you basically take it over. Someone knows that professionally go and like prep the car. Like you would stage a house.
- [104:08]
Doug DeMuro
There are businesses that do this. There are businesses that. This is. Their entire thing is listing. Listing cars on our site on bring a trailer as their job is like prepping the car correctly, knowing that whatever rich dude who has the car just doesn't want it doesn't want to have the time. And they. And then they take a cut of the final price. Yeah, it's a great idea.
- [104:25]
Graham
There are some cars that I see on Facebook that are selling at just unbelievable prices. I saw a cyber truck that sold at $62,000 that was pretty much new with a wrap on it.
- [104:36]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [104:36]
Graham
Full tents.
- [104:37]
Doug DeMuro
And by the way, that's another benefit to having cash. Right. So some of these people are in trouble, especially in Vegas, you know, people are like, in trouble and like, need to get out of these things tomorrow. And I have a buddy who bought an Audi R8 this way. It was a commercial real estate estate guy. Right. When the tariffs last year, when the tariffs were becoming like, really a thing, the market was tanking, he was, like, terrified. No one was answering his, you know, he was like, what's going to happen? He sold his R8 for nothing. My buddy had it for four months and made like 20 grand on it. Wow. Because he had cash when the guy was, you know, be greedy when others are fearful. Well, he did that. Yeah.
- [105:06]
Graham
Now, from what you've seen, though, is there any advice that you have for a bidder on cars and bids to get a good deal? Like a strategy? Is it good to, like, bid up initially? Is it good to wait until the last possible minute?
- [105:18]
Doug DeMuro
No, wait till the end. People are insane. This is my strategy.
- [105:22]
Graham
Our. Our.
- [105:23]
Doug DeMuro
Our. Our corporate team would probably prefer me say that they should bid as much as they can as early as possible and lock in those revenue. But no, you should wait till the end, but not the very end. We, we constantly have people who are like, I hit the button right at zero seconds, but it didn't take my bid. It's like, dude, the bid clock resets to a minute with every bid at the end. 0 seconds or 4 seconds or 28 seconds, it's going to reset to shouldn't wait till the last second, you idiot. Like, I want to scream that at people, but that's the right thing to do is to wait till the last day. Like you don't want to run up the price of the car early, you know, and then just, you know.
- [105:59]
Graham
How do you prevent sellers though, from bidding on their own product and take.
- [106:03]
Doug DeMuro
Telling a buddy like, this is an interesting topic. Everyone who works for cars and bids is going to hate me for my answer to this question. The auction houses, the big ones, don't. You are absolutely to bet on your own car. Rm I mean, they might have rules that say you, you can't. Yeah, okay, but like all the big auction houses allow this to occur more or less in one way or another. Even if the per, even if bidding on your own car is, you have an agreement with the auction house beforehand and they, and you are the, the, the, the plant in the back of the room. Now in some cases, they still require you to pay a fee, so the auction house still makes money. I personally, I don't entirely see something wrong with that. If you're so stupid that you want to bid your own car up to winning it and then pay the fee like you're insane, but like you did that. Some people want to find out what their cars are worth and that's a relatively cheap way to do it. Right? We do not allow it. And so you can't completely prevent it. How would I, how would the auction company stop me from having you? But on my car, you have a different address, different credit card number. You're literally a different person than me. How could you stop that? But we do our best. If we see that it's flagrant, we ban the person, they're gone. If they're trying to use the same credit card, it's not even possible. Etc. But you know, there's, there's, there's definitely an argument in some of this world that, that it's like a thing that should be allowed. Our, our executives are, are really fastidious about trying to, trying to eliminate it from happening, but it's, it's hard to completely stop. And I think everybody understands that. It's, it's Impossible to completely put an.
- [107:39]
Jack
End to what's been the most surprising sale on cars and bids.
- [107:42]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, there have been a ton. I used to complain to our reserve team, why'd you take this car? And then it would sell and I just have stopped. I like. In fact, I actually did it this week. I complained about a car and then it sold for the exact number that the reserve team had it at. And I was like, damn, it's been like six months since I've done this and made a fool of myself. And I told myself I was not going to make a fool out of myself ever again, and here I am doing. Doing it again. I don't remember the exact ones, but there were some times I would send them a link to the team and sort of be, like, kind of condescending, like, what are you thinking? This is. You guys know what? And then they say it's like, oh, God, it happens for sure. So that's. That's one of the other things about auctions. People are, oh, it's only worth this. It'll only sell for this. You never know. You have two really interested people, especially if your car is unusual or special in some way. You never. You never really know what's going to.
- [108:34]
Graham
Happen to me because I look at Teslas all the time. I think cars and bids is probably one of the best places to buy a Tesla.
- [108:42]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [108:43]
Graham
Oh, yeah, the Model Y's. There are a few of them there where I'm looking back thinking, I should have bid on that. Yeah, that was such a great deal. I want that.
- [108:52]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. And as a result of that, I think we've had fewer Teslas. I think. I think we. There was a time where it was like there were like 20 Teslas a week on the site. It was crazy. And they've definitely slowed down.
- [109:03]
Graham
I think you should take more Teslas. I don't think from the buyer.
- [109:07]
Doug DeMuro
We get as many submissions for Teslas as we once.
- [109:09]
Graham
I remember when you had the cyber trucks.
- [109:11]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [109:12]
Graham
Going up, and I would sit there watching the auction. It was my entertainment to see what this cyber truck was going to sell for.
- [109:17]
Doug DeMuro
Like, have you seen that, like, famous reel where the. Where the guy's, like, negotiating on the phone. This is like a car dealer and he's negotiating on the phone and he's like, all right, the cyber truck, I'll give you 60. And the guy's like, 60? I got all the wheels. I got got. I got the special accessories. He's like, listen. He's like, all right, he's like I'm not going to actually make an offer on your cybertruck because you need some time to come to terms with the fact that your cyber truck is not worth what you think it's worth. Those fell quick. Some of the. Yeah, some of the Teslas are definitely bargains and I think they're especially bargains in sort of an open auction setting when you're kind of seeing a market set of price and dealers are maybe dealers, I think in some situations try to take advantage of maybe people who don't quite know as much about what the real price discovery on some of those cars, which is public and open in the auction format.
- [110:03]
Graham
Yeah. Another topic I want to talk about that I'm really looking forward to is the Montana llc.
- [110:09]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [110:10]
Graham
Is that coming to an end?
- [110:11]
Doug DeMuro
Hey, you see that California license plate? I saw that real.
- [110:15]
Graham
That real folks. Technically, Doug, that's a very expensive license plate for you to have that on that car. People don't realize they see the Dubai plates with like three California plate on this car is probably worth just as much when you really think about it.
- [110:30]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, no, the lot's been made about the whole whistling thing.
- [110:34]
Graham
And yeah, he got arrested again.
- [110:35]
Doug DeMuro
I saw that. You talked to Freddy about it?
- [110:37]
Graham
Yes.
- [110:38]
Doug DeMuro
You know, the state law is real clear and I, we went through this on our podcast. The state law is really clear and everybody thinks it's about, well, the car is owned by someone who lives in Montana, owned by a business in Montana. The state laws are not written that way. Especially we looked up Tennessee. I read Tennessee state statute on our podcast on the air. The state statute in Tennessee is if you operate the vehicle in the state for 30 days, you have to rent. Register it in Tennessee. They don't care who owns it. They don't care where it's owned. It's not. That's not what the state statute is. And there's this misconception online that if it's owned somewhere else, but I operate it here, well then the owner. That's not what the law is. The law is clear. If you operate the car for 30 days in the state, you have to register it in the state. And that's California's law as well. And most states, most states laws are.
- [111:20]
Graham
But how does that apply? Let's just say if I'm going on vacation for 32 days, which I do.
- [111:26]
Doug DeMuro
Every summer, I drive across the country and I live in, on the East Coast, I have a house out there for 90 days. I live out of state.
- [111:31]
Graham
So how does that work with the state like Tennessee, officer discretion at that point.
- [111:35]
Doug DeMuro
But that's the law. Like ultimately that's the law. It is insane.
- [111:39]
Jack
Right.
- [111:39]
Doug DeMuro
In that exact circumstance. There's a lot of people who live in New York and Florida and technically those people should be re registering their car every time they go back and forth for the winter. Technically. Right. It's silly. No one does it.
- [111:50]
Graham
Yeah.
- [111:51]
Doug DeMuro
But I think that most of those states are willing to make an obvious exception for a person like me who who clearly lives in Massachusetts and in California, actually lives with a home, you know, has business activity, community in those places. It would be pandemonium if on Cape Cod and Nantucket and South Florida they were pulling over everyone with. With out of state plates in the winter. It'd be insane because they know that like, that's not what those laws are designed to stop. Those laws are actually specifically designed to stop. Precise. Precisely the Montana LLC situation where you're taking advantage of the fact that, you know, you couldn't register the car somewhere else, but you're operating these states. And I think that one of the things that people aren't realizing is how much license plate readers are factoring into this. It used to be 10 years ago, if you got pulled over for that, you'd say to the cop, prove it. I'm here 30 days. Prove it. And they couldn't really. Yeah. But they can now. And a lot of these states have been very liberal with their deployment of license plate readers. It's actually funny because California hippie liberal California, as a result of its political situation, license plate readers are not common here. There are very few of them. And there's. It's incredibly restricted use on how the police officers and local governments are able to use them, including they're not able to use them to enforce this law. But in states like Tennessee, which are very pro police, that hasn't been the case. The police, the license plate readers have been way more commonly deployed. And there's a much broader array of ability to use them for the local law enforcement. And they can figure this out. And so where it used to be like, I'm not using the car now, it's like, no way. We got you. We got you on Interstate 23 on this day and on this day, and we got you on Johnson street on this day, and it's like, it looks like you're using the car.
- [113:35]
Graham
So then it comes down to being arrested for.
- [113:38]
Doug DeMuro
That's wild.
- [113:39]
Graham
Versus going through due process, being convicted.
- [113:42]
Doug DeMuro
I mean, that's, that's, that's like A, you know, some sort of wild west county prosecutor or county sheriff who wants to have some fun, you know, and go arrest a famous guy and get on tv. That's crazy.
- [113:55]
Graham
But do you think they're doing this? My theory was to simply just shut down the llc. They want to scare people.
- [114:01]
Doug DeMuro
Because if I'm there, dude, you don't want to get arrested, right? Like, if you're doing it.
- [114:05]
Graham
That's what I thought.
- [114:05]
Doug DeMuro
Totally.
- [114:06]
Graham
So. So. But I felt that Cody going and making that video played into their hand gave him way more exposure.
- [114:13]
Doug DeMuro
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- [114:24]
Graham
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- [114:26]
Doug DeMuro
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- [114:32]
Graham
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- [114:38]
Doug DeMuro
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- [114:44]
Graham
But what's interesting is if he's going to make a second video, my thought was that he made the first video, pissed off the same person, and they said, let's dig deep, watch through every single one of his videos. Oh, he bought a G wagon. Where did he register? Oh, it's not Tennessee. Bam.
- [114:59]
Jack
Do it again.
- [114:59]
Doug DeMuro
Most of these states have rules, have programs where you can turn somebody in. So, like, if, if. And honestly, if I'm paying my registration and I am, and I see someone with Montana plates, it annoys me, right? Like, I know there are people who are like, are you car shouldn't pay sales tax? Well, that's the law. You're a. Elected officials enacted that law. If you want to, if you want to change that law, you elect different officials or campaign yourself, you don't just violate the law and then say, well, it shouldn't be a law, right? Like, like, like, what if I murdered you guys? They shouldn't. It shouldn't count. I think murder should be legal. It's stupid. It's an idiot argument. It's an. It's an. It's actually an idiot's argument. And so, and so, and so I think that as a result of that, there are a lot. All these states have kind of, kind of encouraged people to turn people in. And I think guarantee you Cody's videos upset enough people that there are. They got probably reports. I. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't someone in Government who went after him. I wouldn't be surprised if they got reports from all over the world being like, check out this guy. He's, he's cheating you. He's cheating you. And eventually they were like, yeah, he is cheating us. You know, what the hell? And then so they went and did it. And, and, and, and probably all the local state governments are aware of this thing and they're trying to put a stop to it. And Tennessee, his county or his state government tried to. It was like, hey, here's a way we can do it pretty publicly. Someone like Forbes had an article about Montana LLCs recently that it annoys every state. And they interviewed someone, the DMV director from Iowa. They were like, we'd call Montana and say, does this person have an llc? And we don't know. We won't tell you. Okay, well, is this LLC operated in Montana? Yes. That's like all they like Montana wants to keep it going, but the other states are all trying to find ways to stop it. Utah is the one that has, that has. So Utah's cracked down like crazy. They've also been arresting people and they have figured out a way, the smart thing to do. They tied it to your insurance. So none of these miners, Montana people, they all have Montana insurance, but they also have local insurance because they, that would be stupid not to.
- [116:51]
Jack
Right.
- [116:52]
Doug DeMuro
So Utah was like, well, if you have an out of state car, but local insurance, that's illegal. And I think that puts a stop to it. That's probably what the states are smart.
- [116:59]
Graham
Way to do it because no one.
- [117:01]
Doug DeMuro
Would take the risk on the insurance aspect of it.
- [117:04]
Graham
Right. I know a buddy even in California got pulled over for having a Montana LLC on his Lamborghini.
- [117:11]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [117:12]
Graham
With a California driver's license.
- [117:13]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. You got a driver's license mismatch.
- [117:15]
Graham
But the police officer. Officer specifically called that out and he was referred to some sort of department to pay the sales tax on the Lamborghini from being pulled over by like a random motorcycle cop.
- [117:27]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. And that's what they should have done with Cody like this. So it's insane to arrest somebody for.
- [117:33]
Graham
So what's going to be the outcome of that? What are you going to say?
- [117:35]
Doug DeMuro
He's going to pay the back sales tax, which is not all that much and it's going to go away. It's silly. It's silly. I mean there's probably, there's probably jail time is probably on in the statute somewhere.
- [117:45]
Graham
Do you think they're going to try to get him for at Least a week in jail, a night in jail, something just to say that, hey, we put him in jail.
- [117:52]
Doug DeMuro
The mere possibility of being arrested is enough for a lot of these guys to not want to do it. If I'm doing it, I wouldn't want to do it. Now. I don't want to get arrested, come back from the airport, you know, like, I'm not going through custom.
- [118:02]
Graham
Imagine this, though, with the IRS, you miss like a 1099 that you just got lost in the shuffle and they come and arrest you.
- [118:09]
Doug DeMuro
I have had IRS notices come to my house for a lot of people. More money that I missed, that I was under and sometimes that I was over and that some mistake. And they were sending me a check for a lot more money than what Cody's owing right now to Tennessee. And yes, it is a letter in the mail. And you call your accountant, you say, okay, what happened here? We go back and look, oh, yeah, we got to do this, whatever. And it's just handled as a. Literally as. As like roped paperwork.
- [118:33]
Graham
Right.
- [118:33]
Doug DeMuro
But there is one. One big difference is in. In Cody's case, there is clearly intent, which is an element of crime. Right. Like ultimately, when I'm doing with the irs, there's not intent. And so there's going to. There's always going to be paperwork mismatches and case. That's not the situation. So they could. They could make that argument.
- [118:49]
Graham
So in terms of other YouTuber finances, who do you think is the Most irresponsible in 2026?
- [118:56]
Doug DeMuro
It's Freddy. It's gotta be Freddy more than Hoovy. Oh, yeah, no, unquestionably, Hoovy's not that bad. I joke about Hoovy a lot because I'm. I'm closest with Hoovy, and he does do some crazy stuff. But Freddie, Freddie, you know, he's. He's Florida. Freddie is Florida. Freddie is encapsulates Florida in one person, and I love him for it. And that's why we all watch his videos. He is beloved for that reason, because he does crazy stuff. Like as crazy as what he's doing with cars. That's his finances. His finances are the half fire destroyed Porsche 918 of finances. Is. That's what it is.
- [119:38]
Graham
Do you think he should have bought that car?
- [119:40]
Doug DeMuro
No, I think that car. I think he should have bought either of them. I think both of those cars are. Were beyond saving.
- [119:45]
Graham
But what about the views he's made from the channel?
- [119:48]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. Right. And. And so I'd be curious to see what the what the numbers all are in terms of both revenue from that and whatever loans he's got on the cars, which I've heard are significant. And so, like, I'd be curious to see if it's teasing out. I. If I were Freddy, I would be putting up a lot more content a lot more frequently on the.
- [120:04]
Graham
We would want that. Because I love his videos. I think he should be posting every other week, just a good cadence. Every other week, every other day, every Monday morning.
- [120:13]
Doug DeMuro
Give me every week. And clickbait me, Freddy. Clickbait me. I'll take it. I'll take it. That's how bad I want to see Freddy. But he doesn't. And I think he's leaving a lot of money on the table. Freddy is certainly not optimized. Yeah.
- [120:28]
Graham
You know what's so funny? We got him up on an email for people to read, reach out to help him. And It's Tavarish needs help12mail.com. And we implored anyone who's watching who thinks you could help Freddy in his business and take some workload off his plate. Email with a submission of why you should be.
- [120:46]
Doug DeMuro
Was Tavares needs help without the 12. Was that taken?
- [120:49]
Jack
I just figured we were. It was like mid podcast and he was just lamenting of his work schedule. Like, dude, why don't we just find you right now some people that want to help you out with your channel and like, okay, like, assuming Tavares needs help is taken on Google, right?
- [121:01]
Doug DeMuro
You want to make sure that there's limit.
- [121:03]
Jack
Like right now filming it was.
- [121:05]
Doug DeMuro
Have. Have people reached out?
- [121:06]
Jack
Yes. Yeah. So we created the g it off to him and we just gave him the email login.
- [121:11]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, don't do that.
- [121:12]
Jack
He.
- [121:12]
Doug DeMuro
It's the same thing is going to happen that happens to the rest of his life. We still have the.
- [121:17]
Jack
We still have like the account password.
- [121:18]
Doug DeMuro
And everything you need to manage it. Jack, you need to go in there. No, I do not want to sit. Freddy. You got to call Freddy every week and be Freddy. Did you reach out to this. This guy Troy? He's in. Troy is in Orlando. He's got an impact driver.
- [121:33]
Jack
I think he would go a long way with just a little bit of help. Someone who's like, hey, where's our video this week? But if you're interested, you want to make it happen.
- [121:42]
Doug DeMuro
Tavares needs help 12. 12.
- [121:44]
Jack
The email account. Email account is still active, guys, and.
- [121:48]
Doug DeMuro
He'S actively checking it.
- [121:50]
Jack
Like, literally. I see the emails coming in every day. Like, for some reason, notification how much.
- [121:54]
Graham
Exposure this email is going to be getting.
- [121:56]
Doug DeMuro
I'm going to start saying it on our podcast. Varish needs help. 12 mail.
- [122:00]
Jack
Guys, please help him.
- [122:00]
Graham
You could set up, please.
- [122:04]
Jack
Does Doug need help?
- [122:05]
Doug DeMuro
No.
- [122:05]
Jack
Do you want Doug needs help?
- [122:06]
Graham
No, 12.
- [122:08]
Doug DeMuro
I'm good.
- [122:10]
Jack
Doug does not need help, guys. Okay. Doug doesn't need help.
- [122:14]
Doug DeMuro
But. But I totally agree. Friend does. I don't think Hoovie does. I think Hoovy's good. He's fine.
- [122:18]
Graham
I thought every tax season, he has to say, like, well, I'm selling off these three cars.
- [122:22]
Doug DeMuro
But you got to remember, he overcrowded cars. Like, he's got. He's got 60 cars at any given.
- [122:28]
Jack
Moment, so his assets are building.
- [122:30]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. And he's got to sell off cars for tech season, but he also needs to sell off cars because it's a Wednesday. You know what I mean? Like, he is. There is no time when Hoovie is not buying and selling and, like, horse training. A buddy of mine was just a Barrett Jackson, and Hoov's down there, and. And they hire who here? This is a great Hoovy story. Gotta ask him about this. Next week, they hire Hoovy at Barrett Jackson to come and do auction commentary. Like, he. He, like, has a microphone and does, like, commentary, and they pay him for that. But while he' he's such a degenerate car enthusiast, he can't stop buying cars. So even though they're paying him, like, a. Like a money to go do it, he takes all the money they pay him and he spends it right back at the damn auction because he just can't not. And so they got to love this. They're getting, like, basically free auction commentary from Hoovy because he's taken the free buyer.
- [123:16]
Graham
Basically.
- [123:17]
Doug DeMuro
If they. If they weren't paying him to come down there, he probably wouldn't be buying the car. Go down there himself. But they get him there to do auction commentary. The real reason they have him there is probably because they know he's going to buy, like, six.
- [123:28]
Graham
Oh, my God. It's kind of like giving a gambler money at a casino. Like, the casino's giving, hey, here's, you know, 20 grand, right?
- [123:35]
Doug DeMuro
Give a degenerate gambler, tell him, hey, man, you get to come to this casino and do a. Do a little video on the casino. Yeah. But by the way, you'll also have a lot of free time during the real. The big nights of action, you know, whatever you want to do, you know?
- [123:48]
Graham
Yeah. I remember the first time he invited us to bear Jackson. He bought a Fisker Fisker Karma 2012, just randomly because it was there. He's just. It was at a price. Or he's like, I gotta buy it, try it out.
- [124:00]
Doug DeMuro
It's not within him to stop. It's insane.
- [124:02]
Graham
And who do you think is the most financially responsible besides yourself?
- [124:07]
Doug DeMuro
I don't really know that much about the finances of a lot of these guys. Other than that, most of them scare me. You know, YouTube in a general is a business in which, like, to get into it, you kind of have to be nuts. And so, like, we're like the only logical, rational people on this platform. Like, do you ever. Does that ever hit you? Ed Bullion, you think Ed. Yeah. Yeah. He's probably the most financially responsible of all of them. But keep in mind as you say that you're talking about a man who owns a Bugatti Veyron that's the most financially responsible.
- [124:40]
Graham
But he's up on the car.
- [124:41]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, he is.
- [124:42]
Graham
Yeah.
- [124:42]
Doug DeMuro
But like, think about that. Like, that's the level we're talking about here. You know, the answer to this is Harry Metcalf. Do you know Harry? Harry's a British YouTuber and he started Evo magazine, which is a big British. And he's my absolute favorite car youtuber. And he's. He's seems to be pretty. He's. He's like an older guy and he's like a rational person and he's pretty funny. I love him more than any car YouTuber, I think. I'm sure he's got it all shmee. Yeah, for sure. He buys a lot of fast appreciating, hypercar type stuff, but maybe there's money there to do it. I don't really know how that all works.
- [125:19]
Graham
Just family. No. My understanding with him, his work ethic is crazy. He posts so often. Yeah. And he has a very lean team. Like, my understanding when. When we did a podcast with him, he's filming himself.
- [125:31]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [125:31]
Graham
And then he's editing, I believe, himself. He just goes to the hotel and just like churns out the video.
- [125:36]
Doug DeMuro
I mean, it's nice to not people.
- [125:40]
Graham
And he's posting like daily, like every other day. He's been doing that for like 10 years.
- [125:44]
Jack
He.
- [125:44]
Doug DeMuro
He definitely grinds, there's no question. However, he also buys some cars that I'm like. Like, he got an SF90 Ferrari, which is like no car in history is depreciated more than this car. Like that.
- [125:55]
Graham
Yeah.
- [125:55]
Doug DeMuro
There's a lot of editing videos in the hotel. Room at night to make up for the simple value loss in that individual car. You know, that sort of stuff scares me. I don't, I, I, I'm afraid for all of them. And I often sit here and I read their comments. I mentioned this in our pod, but I read their comments and the comments are like, You're a rich YouTuber. What are you complaining about? And I know because I've heard stories that this person is about one video away from bank, you know, like, and, and, and everybody's like, because they have all this stuff, people think they're really rich. But I know all of the stuff is financed to the hilt and they're like, they're like, you know, they're desperately chasing and I'm just like terrified of basically all of all for all of them. The thing I think that most of them don't understand about YouTube is that it's, it's not going to last forever. And I've begged them all to understand that. And every time I meet with any of them, I tell them to start a business from YouTube and like cars and bids. And the reason that I feel that I'm the answer to the question that you asked now me, the, who's the most responsible is like, I did that. And I think that like the, the really smart ones do that and take that audience which is linked to you in an algorithm that you do not control and bring them over to a place where you can monetize it in a better way in a way that is more controllable for you, et cetera. And the, the, they all should do it because someday they're not going to have, you know, I, I worry about Stradman. His views aren't as strong as they used to be. Right. He's got a pizza place, but like that's brick and mortar. Like, you know, it's toug, it's, yeah, it's a hard business, it's hard to scale. It's not really something that I think a private equity buyer comes in and says, yes, we want to buy your individual pizza location in suburban Phoenix. Like I, I, that kind of stuff. I really think they should all start like real businesses and take their audiences while they have them and do that.
- [127:38]
Graham
That's what I want to do with Jack for the iced coffee hour. Have some sort of business that's scalable, preferably online, money related, something that's safe, saves people money.
- [127:49]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [127:50]
Graham
But I think our strength is really in the video itself rather than running a business. And I know myself, I'd be way too nice of a guy to, like, manage people.
- [127:58]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. Running a business is a lot harder than I expected, and I've been very lucky to have partners who did it a lot better than me. I don't think I could. So I'm sitting here giving this advice to these YouTubers, but it's a little bit holier than thou because I did it, but I. It's also because I had a lot of help. I don't know that, like, you have to find the right person, you have to find the right partner, et cetera, to.
- [128:13]
Graham
Do you know what we should do if you have a financial product or a business that you want to partner with us on? The email is Graham needs help 12gmail.com submit your business that we could be preferably equity partners in.
- [128:30]
Doug DeMuro
No, listen, I got two business ideas I'm going to give you right now, and I want you to take them.
- [128:33]
Graham
Okay.
- [128:34]
Doug DeMuro
You can edit this out so the people don't have to see it.
- [128:36]
Graham
Sure.
- [128:36]
Doug DeMuro
One of them is this. Okay. Everybody loves their, like, family and their dog and their kids and all this crap. You know how everybody has holiday inflatables, Customized holiday inflatables. Okay. So instead of Santa, you buy on Amazon, you're selling ones, they send you a picture of their family, their dog, their kids, whatever. You make an inflatable out of their dog. People who are obsessed with their golden retriever are like, I want to go, okay, here's your golden retriever as a Christmas inflatable. He's wearing a Santa hat and he's got Santa outfit on or whatever. That's for you to figure out. That's one business. I want you to take that. I want to make that into a billion dollar business. I'm giving that to you.
- [129:12]
Graham
Thank you.
- [129:12]
Jack
Thank you so much.
- [129:13]
Doug DeMuro
He also. Other one. Okay, the other one. You know how kids in their rooms, they have little play mats that are like a map? Like, there's like church and there's a grocery store.
- [129:21]
Graham
Yeah, I used to have one of those.
- [129:22]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, we all did. Everyone has one there. It's like a big business, the playmat business. Okay. You make it personalizable to your, like the, the. The parents can pick. Like, do you want it to be like your neighborhood? Like, oh, like, like, oh, your friend Johnny's house is on the. It's right over there. Oh, your school is on the map. It's right over there. And the map, the. The little map where they're driving their little cars isn't just generic.
- [129:43]
Graham
Do kids have A idea of where they live in relation to what they.
- [129:48]
Doug DeMuro
Would in this situation. Plus your kids down there playing and he's playing like within the neighborhood. Like it's cute. Like that's cute. I'm giving that to you all.
- [129:56]
Graham
Thank you.
- [129:56]
Doug DeMuro
I only want to go ahead and.
- [129:57]
Jack
Take those ideas and run with them.
- [129:59]
Graham
The real estate values on the map, like Zillow has a lot 7 95.
- [130:05]
Doug DeMuro
These are good business ideas. The personalized inflatables is a good business idea. And once you get rich doing that, a secondary lifestyle business is the personalized playmats for the kids. Okay, this is so you're bullish on.
- [130:18]
Graham
Like the personalized people love this stuff.
- [130:21]
Doug DeMuro
And people and their pets, like, they'll pay anything for any pet thing if you can get them personalized Christmas inflatables with their dog. Have you ever met dog people? They go crazy.
- [130:30]
Graham
Yeah, they do.
- [130:31]
Doug DeMuro
They go crazy. They'll do anything. They every dog people have personalized, personalized dog bowls. And the leash is personalized.
- [130:37]
Graham
I'd always like to see some sort of translator where if the dog barks, it just translates in English or whatever your native.
- [130:44]
Doug DeMuro
That's harder.
- [130:45]
Graham
Is like what it says.
- [130:45]
Doug DeMuro
That's harder though. Do you understand? Because the problem with that is that you have to speak the same language as the dog.
- [130:53]
Graham
AI will be able to predict based on the time of day, like the habits, like it takes it.
- [130:57]
Doug DeMuro
It's. You don't even need AI for my brilliant business idea. I want you to do this. I want you to take this. And I only want a small portion of it. Couple million. And this is a billion dollar idea.
- [131:08]
Graham
Maybe if we could finance that at 0% percent over, you know, 96 months. Like the car loan. Exactly would be nice.
- [131:16]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [131:16]
Jack
If anyone does manufacturing that's watching this video right now. You want to make inflatables or play, please reach out. Graham needs help 12.
- [131:22]
Graham
Or any other idea. Graham needs help 12. And we could partner with you and maybe sell some inflatables.
- [131:28]
Doug DeMuro
Inflatables.
- [131:29]
Graham
And I'll be checking the email.
- [131:30]
Doug DeMuro
That's the next business.
- [131:32]
Jack
So last off, we have rapid fire questions for you.
- [131:35]
Graham
All right.
- [131:35]
Jack
And so first thing that comes to mind. Okay, quick question, question, quick answer. Best car ever made.
- [131:41]
Doug DeMuro
That one. CR gt. Boom.
- [131:43]
Graham
Best daily driver.
- [131:45]
Doug DeMuro
Prius.
- [131:46]
Jack
If you were to bet on the failure of one car company, what would it be?
- [131:51]
Doug DeMuro
Nothing has come to mind yet. So you can't say I'm not saying it fast. What would it be? What would it be? Chrysler, I guess. But not really? No one's going to fail.
- [131:59]
Jack
Worst lucid.
- [132:00]
Doug DeMuro
Wait, lucid? Lucid. Maybe not lucid. They got a lot of backers. No one. Everybody's gonna be fine.
- [132:05]
Jack
Worst car ever made.
- [132:07]
Doug DeMuro
I reviewed your Vegas friend Dana White's tuk tuk. You know what a tuk tuk is?
- [132:12]
Graham
Yeah, a little tiny.
- [132:13]
Doug DeMuro
I drove Dana White had one, and we'd auctioned it on the site for charity with him. That was a horrible car. Horrible. Does that count as a car?
- [132:21]
Jack
Yeah. Okay.
- [132:22]
Doug DeMuro
I crashed into a curb. I hope that that. I hope that that isn't information I shouldn't be sharing. Dana White's gonna beat me up.
- [132:30]
Jack
What is the most Republican car?
- [132:34]
Doug DeMuro
Probably Ram TRX. You got to assume, like, 85%. 90% of Ram TRX buyers are Republican.
- [132:41]
Graham
More than a cyber truck.
- [132:43]
Doug DeMuro
They're liberals. Like electric cars, though. Like, there's some portion of people buying that because they, like, want to.
- [132:48]
Graham
Electric Hummer.
- [132:50]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, but Hummers are all electric now. Ram TRXs have a 700 horsepower supercharged V8. There is nobody who both votes voted for Kamala and is driving. It doesn't exist.
- [133:04]
Jack
Okay, what is the most liberal car ever made?
- [133:09]
Doug DeMuro
Ever made? Probably, like, the Prius. The original Honda Insight. The original Honda Insight. Do you remember that? They had, like, the COVID over the rear wheels, and those were only sold to live.
- [133:18]
Jack
If you had unlimited money. What's your dream car?
- [133:20]
Doug DeMuro
I would probably want a Ferrari F50.
- [133:23]
Jack
Would you quit YouTube for $20 million post tax?
- [133:27]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, I guess, but, like, no, I would. Can I still make YouTube but not pay attention to the revenue?
- [133:33]
Graham
No.
- [133:33]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, but then I would become irrelevant. No, I'm kidding. I'm already irrelevant. I don't know. Yeah, I guess.
- [133:44]
Jack
Would you only ever drive a Prius.
- [133:46]
Doug DeMuro
For $30 million only, like, as the only.
- [133:49]
Jack
Only car you can ever drive.
- [133:50]
Doug DeMuro
Drive rest of your life.
- [133:51]
Graham
No, no, really, I. I said that you would take 30 million. No, just drive A.
- [133:57]
Doug DeMuro
Part of the reason I got money was to buy cars. I don't. What am I going to do with 30 million if I have to have a Prius everywhere? Yeah, maybe I'd take it.
- [134:08]
Jack
What is Doug Demiro's best quirk and feature?
- [134:11]
Doug DeMuro
I'm really good at with low levels of annoyance. Like, you know how your sock gets wet? I don't mind.
- [134:20]
Jack
That's not low level, though.
- [134:21]
Doug DeMuro
It's a high level for you. Yeah, that's the end of the world for me. I could. I could put my socks in a pool and do the rest of the day and you wouldn't even know about it.
- [134:29]
Jack
Oh, my God. That is actually a superpower.
- [134:32]
Graham
It's kind of gross.
- [134:32]
Doug DeMuro
And just generally forget about the pool socks. But, like, I can do a lot of stuff with, like, I. I don't. Like, all my buddies, like, they have to clean their cars. Like, we have a buddy who's on the east coast and he's got a Porsche and he's snow and he could go out and, like, do donuts space, but then I have to clean it. I don't give a. I would do the donuts. Like, I. I don't mind. The car's dirty. I wouldn't even really notice it. Like, I. I'm really good at, like. Like, just getting past that kind of B.S. that doesn't matter.
- [134:56]
Jack
Does it even occur to you, or do you. Is there just, like, an intentional thing to like?
- [134:59]
Doug DeMuro
It occurs to me, but I just, like, I'm good. It's one of the reasons why I think I'd be good in a haunted house. It's like the ghost is like. And I'd be like, look, dude, I.
- [135:07]
Jack
I either stab me or not.
- [135:08]
Doug DeMuro
You know, Like, I'm busy. I got. I'm sorry, I can't do this right now. I don't have this.
- [135:13]
Jack
What is your worst quirk and feature?
- [135:20]
Graham
Hmm.
- [135:22]
Doug DeMuro
That's a good one. I need a lot of personal time. Self time. I wish I didn't. I wish I was more energetic. If I had a genie and I had three wishes, one of them would be, I would wish for more energy. Which is crazy because it looks like I have a lot of energy, but I'm gonna go home now and sleep. I wish. Wish for more energy.
- [135:40]
Jack
What is the secret to a good life?
- [135:42]
Doug DeMuro
I don't know. Find the stuff that you love and do that and do the stuff that makes you happy. That's been my secret.
- [135:49]
Jack
Okay, so we have right here.
- [135:53]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, wow. Computer for me. Thank God you have a computer.
- [135:56]
Jack
Let me pull this out.
- [135:57]
Doug DeMuro
I needed a computer.
- [135:57]
Graham
Jack's going to show you these inflatables he's been working on.
- [136:02]
Doug DeMuro
Dude, an inflatable thing. Dude, do the inflatable thing. I'm not gonna do it. I'm busy.
- [136:08]
Jack
We have two quick tier lists for you to do.
- [136:11]
Doug DeMuro
Okay.
- [136:11]
Jack
Okay. The first tier list is a car tier list.
- [136:14]
Doug DeMuro
Okay. Oh, this is easy. Why do I hate none of these cars?
- [136:19]
Jack
It probably makes sense just to start at the.
- [136:20]
Doug DeMuro
You think so? The first one. But what if. What if I start putting everything at S and then I realize I got too much AT S. This is why.
- [136:25]
Jack
You have to be strategic about it.
- [136:27]
Doug DeMuro
All right? We're gonna put Aston Martin and B. That's fine. Bugatti. I'll put Bugatti up AT S. Love a good Bugatti. BYC Come on, Enzo. Love an Enzo. But it's automatic. We don't like that. Ferrari in general. Doug loves Ferrari, even though he doesn't have one. Favorite brand. Ford gt New Ford gt. Koenigsegg. I'm not into Koenigseggs. They break down all the time. Lamborghini. This one, I don't know, but most of them. I'll put it up here. No, you know what? Let's put Lamborghini.
- [136:52]
Jack
If it's just Lambo, then it's just a Lambo. In general.
- [136:54]
Doug DeMuro
It's not specific.
- [136:55]
Graham
Yeah.
- [136:55]
Doug DeMuro
Lucid. No, come on. We're not. We like lucid, but we're not obsessed. McLaren P1, I'm embarrassed to say, because I really only like cars with manual transmissions. I really love the McLare RNP1. Mercedes AMG1. It seems like it's overwrought. There's, like, a lot to it. I'm gonna put it down there now. Here. Neo. No, thanks. Pagani. Huayra. Not a big Huayra guy.
- [137:16]
Graham
Why not?
- [137:17]
Doug DeMuro
It's. The motor is wrong for the car. And also, every Wyra has been specked by someone who has no taste. Have you seen Wyra builds? Like, they're.
- [137:25]
Graham
They're a little wild, but they're also. But that's the point of the car.
- [137:28]
Doug DeMuro
So then, great, then that car can be with those people, you know? You know how many W owners are, like, under indictment?
- [137:35]
Graham
Most.
- [137:35]
Doug DeMuro
No.
- [137:35]
Jack
Really?
- [137:36]
Doug DeMuro
No. But you. You get the feeling. Porsche 918. It's R DEA. No, we don't like electric stuff. Rivan. We like Rivan. We'll put Rivan. Yeah, Rivan's there. SSC Tuatara. No, no, Shme. Shme taught us. What's going on with that 300 SL? Yeah, yeah, we like that. 670. 765L2. Spider. Yeah, it's okay. He's going to kill me. Countach. Very best.
- [138:03]
Jack
250.
- [138:04]
Doug DeMuro
GTO. Yeah, it's cool. I appreciate it. I don't love the old stuff as much. Model T. Come on. Rolls Royce. That's fine, I guess. Tesla Roadster. Yeah, it's fine. Tesla in general. What should I do? Drf you tell me.
- [138:21]
Graham
D? For sure.
- [138:21]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, it went to F. Fine. I'll put it at D. I'm Not a big Tesla, dude. Prius. Great for the people who need them. Taxi drivers, et cetera. Venom F5 drove it like it. It's pretty cool. And the Xiaomi SU7, not as bad as you think. There's my list. Wow. I'm happy with this list.
- [138:35]
Jack
This is great.
- [138:36]
Doug DeMuro
This work perfectly. I'm a positive dude.
- [138:40]
Jack
You know, you could do a video like this and it would. I think it would like blow up. Truly you did if you did a car tier list.
- [138:46]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
- [138:47]
Jack
And so we have one other tier list for you to do.
- [138:50]
Doug DeMuro
Okay.
- [138:50]
Jack
Ah, we want you to do a car YouTuber tier.
- [138:53]
Graham
Okay.
- [138:54]
Doug DeMuro
I can do this. No problem. I don't. I'm not going to know most of people. Honestly, I don't. Okay. Oh, they're all A or S. Oh, I can't rank them. Okay. Whistling is S. Obviously I'm going to start with whistling because he's the best. He's. Whistling is my North Star, my guiding light.
- [139:11]
Jack
We would love to have him on the podcast. We've asked him a million times if you're watching this, please. We'll make it happen. We'll travel to you. We flew to San Diego for this, guys. If anything, give it a.
- [139:19]
Doug DeMuro
Like, he'll come both. He'll come to Tennessee. They'll also come to Montana. Wherever it is that you prefer.
- [139:24]
Jack
Bail you out. Literally.
- [139:26]
Doug DeMuro
Anything you want.
- [139:27]
Jack
We'll come make it happen.
- [139:28]
Graham
Whatever you need.
- [139:29]
Doug DeMuro
Okay. I'm gonna embarrass myself because I don't know all these people. B is for Bill. Like them. Cletus. Love Cletus. Not my stuff. Never watch him, but love what he's doing. Dde not really my content. Donut like donut into donut. We got James on there. He's not around them anymore. I do not know who this person is.
- [139:46]
Jack
Okay. No one. I. I haven't heard anyone mention Doug Vargo. You don't know who he's gonna be.
- [139:50]
Doug DeMuro
Whoever he is, but that's nothing.
- [139:52]
Graham
So he.
- [139:52]
Jack
He started content, like in the YouTube niche recently. He was doing stuff on YouTube beforehand, but he's. He's doing this series called Flipping Cars. Afford my dream car.
- [140:00]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, I have seen.
- [140:01]
Jack
Have you seen the guys? Have you seen his videos?
- [140:03]
Doug DeMuro
Yes, I have. Great videos.
- [140:04]
Jack
And he's been blowing up.
- [140:05]
Doug DeMuro
All right, I'll give him. I'll put him up here. B. I'll put him with donut. Ed. Love Ed. Gotta put Ed up there. Crazy dude. Hoovy. Obviously. God. Tier. Shmee. Love Shmi. Shimmy belongs up here. Steve put Steve down here. You know, I, I, Steve had a countach and sold it, and I just. I. Steve, to me, is. Is less car YouTuber, more rich guy Stradman. Love Strad dearly. Supercar Blondie. I like supercar Blondie. The content has sort of made a little bit of a turn. I'm gonna put. I'm gonna put her at B. Freddy. I'm gonna give Freddy a B. Only because he doesn't make enough content. Tj. Love tj. It's not really my. My type of stuff. Like, he works on stuff. It's. It's not like the kind of the stuff that I and Parker love Parker dearly. This is. This is also brilliant.
- [140:52]
Jack
Amazing.
- [140:52]
Doug DeMuro
I completely stand by this.
- [140:53]
Graham
Perfect. You crushed it. Loved it.
- [140:55]
Doug DeMuro
Freddy should probably be higher, but he. We need more. Freddy. Freddy, you'll become an S when you post twice a week. And we're here to get the 918.
- [141:03]
Graham
Done. Do you have any words for Hoovy?
- [141:05]
Doug DeMuro
I just saw him, and so I've told him everything I need to tell him, but just that I love him dearly, you know, Sell some cars on cars and bits. Tell him that Hoovy. Sell some cars on cars and bits. I got a Hoovy store for you. Want to hear a Hoo story for story?
- [141:19]
Graham
I do.
- [141:20]
Doug DeMuro
Okay. He's gonna hate me for telling this story because it still makes him sad. Like, six months ago, he. He's got this Cadillac concept car, and I'm begging him to let me review it and sell it on cars and bids. He's like, no, no. I'm just gonna sell it to this dealer. He sells it to the dealer for like, 10. I'm like, dude, I would have given you. It was like he had bought it for, like, 11, right? It was this kind of ratty old thing. And I was like, I would have given you a 10 reserve just to have it. I would have killed the review it. Whatever. He traded it to. To this dealer for something else, and the dealer put it on the other auction site, and it sold for, like, 50.
- [141:54]
Graham
Oh, why did he. Why did he give it to the dealer?
- [141:58]
Doug DeMuro
He wanted some car they had and thought it was a pretty good trade. The problem is when you're hoovy, you're making 60 car trades a year. Some of them are going to be amazing, and some of them are going to be terrible. And he really gets down with the terrible. Like, it really affects him. The terrible ones.
- [142:12]
Graham
Yeah.
- [142:12]
Doug DeMuro
But that happened. I was really upset because I wanted to drive that car so bad. A hoovy story for you. Jeez. Yeah.
- [142:20]
Jack
Well, Doug, thank you so much for coming on. The iced coffee hour podcast is always such a pleasure. Such an energetic and positive person.
- [142:28]
Graham
I always feel great after filming these episodes.
- [142:30]
Jack
Every time we film with you, it's like the. It's like a breath of fresh air.
- [142:33]
Doug DeMuro
Well, I appreciate it.
- [142:34]
Graham
Well, not only is it easy, it's fun. And just like time flies, it felt like 30 minutes. And we'll do it again next year.
- [142:41]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, for sure.
- [142:41]
Jack
And the viewers love it, so. Viewers love it. Thank you so much.
- [142:44]
Doug DeMuro
See you next year. Boom.
- [142:46]
Graham
Remember, Graham needs help. Twelvemail.com do you want to do the inflatables idea?
- [142:50]
Doug DeMuro
If I see custom inflatables happening out there in the world, I want to cut. I know where you saw it. I'm coming for you.
- [142:57]
Graham
And don't forget to sell your cool enthusiast car @cars and bids.com.
- [143:03]
Jack
And also, thank you guys so very much. We flew all the way down to San Diego to make this happen. Then we're renting a car, driving to Los Angeles to film another episode over there, and then flying back to Vegas, so.
- [143:13]
Graham
And our editor, Mikey, is h hustling to get this out on Sunday. Big thank you.
- [143:23]
Jack
Thank you to everyone watching. Seriously, thank you. We wouldn't do it without you guys. Of course.
- [143:28]
Graham
Boom.
- [143:29]
Jack
Boom. Till next time.