Watch Expert Brutally Exposes Rolex ‘Waitlist’ Scam, Dirty Secrets, & Celebrity Fakes | Nico Leonard

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Iced Coffee Hour

Episode: Watch Expert Brutally Exposes Rolex ‘Waitlist’ Scam, Dirty Secrets, & Celebrity Fakes | Nico Leonard
Hosts: Graham Stephan & Jack Selby
Guest: Nico Leonard (Watch Industry Expert)
Date: May 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this explosive episode, watch dealer and outspoken YouTuber Nico Leonard exposes the “dirty secrets” of the luxury watch industry, particularly targeting the Rolex waitlist “scam," fake celebrity watches, and widespread industry marketing myths. Nico – known for calling out counterfeit watches and industry hype – pulls back the curtain on pricing, allocation games, celebrity collections, and what truly makes a watch valuable. Throughout, Graham and Jack challenge Nico with audience questions and personal stories, resulting in an unfiltered, deeply informative, and entertaining discussion for collectors and newcomers alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Watch Industry is Broken

• Nico begins by declaring the watch industry “lost in every way, shape, or form."
  “It’s never been at a worse place than it is today... The retail side is full with lies and marketing. It is actually scary.” (00:54, Nico)
• He laments customer treatment, arrogance, and the focus on selling narratives over actual value.

The Rolex “Waitlist” is a Scam

• Nico is adamant: The famed Rolex waitlist is a complete fabrication.
  “No, absolutely not. The watch industry tries to create a narrative for you to buy a watch. Rolex is not scarce... but yet they make you believe that they are the rarest thing in the world.” (01:18, 19:38, 21:00, Nico)
• He exposes the journey as the real luxury, not the products: “Privilege in that part becomes a luxury... The journey is the product. Not the watch, not the product.” (18:05, Nico)
• Tips for buying a Rolex? “If you want the Rolex, you need to suck it up... or just buy it on the grey market. I would argue the grey market is the truth of the industry. Retail is just a bloody lie.” (21:00, Nico)

Industry Hype and Marketing Lies

• Brands like IWC, Panerai, Hublot, Jacob & Co get blasted for “identity crises" and marketing over substance. “IWC is absolutely lost. Identity crisis worse than Michael Jackson at his prime." (14:36, Nico)
• “Fake exclusivity” is called out at other major Swiss brands following Rolex’s tactics.
  “They have the watches, the production is easy, but it’s the journey they try to sell.” (23:26, Nico)

Celebrity Watch Collecting – Who Has Taste?

• Best collections? John Mayer, for “authentic passion”; Kevin Hart, Mark Wahlberg mentioned, but “is it just buying what you can, or actually collecting?” (27:59-29:21)
• Celebrity Fakes: Nico calls out fake/cobbled-together collections, citing Rick Ross and others.
  “Rick Ross. That was embarrassing... That green watch... was a direct replica of the actual watch AP made at that time. One off.” (88:54, 89:26, Nico)
• Fake watches are rampant, but most flexes now come from men to other men—not for impressing women.
  “It’s always been a bloke. Today, twice... Oh cool watch. And at the hotel, so that’s really interesting.” (32:40, Nico)

What Your Watch Says About You (Rapid Fire Stereotypes)

• Brand Stereotypes:
  • Rolex: “High school dropout.”
  • AP: “First money made; loves hip hop.”
  • Patek: “Extremely classy, very thoughtful.”
  • Hublot: “Very easy to be influenced and absolutely do not care... construction company owner.”
• Financing Watches: “Stupid.”
• Aftermarket Diamonds: “Insecure.”
• Rolex Waitlist: “Fake.”
• Industry Overall: “Scam.”
  (52:23-56:13)

Owning & Managing Massive Collections

• Nico manages $1B+ in client watches: Handling service, acquisition, loss recovery, valuation, and selling.
  “One of the biggest watch collectors in the world is a woman.” (42:31, Nico)
• Stories of clients losing $2.5M watches (Vegas parties, theft, etc) and tracing their recovery.

Watch Market Insights & Collecting Advice

Which Watches Actually Hold Value?

• “99% of watches are not investments. The fact you think a watch is an investment means it’s already passed through too many people.” (59:38, Nico)
• Best investments: Independent watchmakers like Rexhep Rexhepi, Simon Brette, and ultra-rare vintage pieces “money can’t buy."
• “If everybody knows about it, it’s too late. The future is in independent watchmakers.” (60:42)

How Rich Should You Be To Buy A Rolex?

• “I think to consider it wise to buy a luxury product, you should be able to afford it at least five times.” (56:53, Nico)

What About Fakes?

• Fakes are everywhere, even in celebrity circles.
  • “If you’re an adult, wearing a fake watch… Why would you support criminal activities like copyright infringements?" (91:38, Nico)
  • There are ethical and legal issues, and—unlike vintage fakes—today’s top replicas can be nearly indistinguishable absent opening the case.

How To Buy or Sell Safely?

• "Buy the seller, not the watch."
  “Do your research not about the watch, but about the people you do business with.” (50:14, Nico)

Best Watches at Key Price Points

• $1,000: Tissot PRX or Hanstein
• $10k: Rolex Submariner 116610LN
• $25k: Rolex 16618 blue dial solid gold Submariner
• $50k: AP Chronograph 26331ST
• $100k: Patek Philippe Nautilus 3700
• $1,000,000: Vintage Daytona (Paul Newman, 6241, etc)
  (58:28–59:29)

Best Watches for Under $15k (Starter Collection)

• Omega Speedmaster: for history/chronograph
• Tudor Black Bay Pro GMT: for travel/functionality
• Pre-owned Chopard dress watch: high value, in-house movement (80:34)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the watch industry’s lies:
  “This industry would collapse if I would tell you the truth.” (01:38, 14:29, Nico)
• On the 'privilege' of buying Rolex:
  “Luxury is something people want but cannot have. That privilege is what they crave, not the watch itself.” (18:05, Nico)
• On Hublot and Jacob & Co:
  “If you wear a Hublot, you have absolute zero taste... Jacob & Co is hugely embarrassing.” (11:40, 13:31, Nico)
• On buying status:
  “If you have to go into debt for four grand to buy a Rolex, you have other problems to solve.” (02:52, Nico)
• On women/men and watches:
  “Not a single woman will know what you wear. If you wear Cartier, it is a bloke that will know. So all you’re attracting is blokes.” (32:13, Nico)

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Essential Timestamps

• [00:54] – Nico’s opening state of the industry
• [01:16, 19:36, 21:00] – Rolex waitlist is fake explained
• [02:27] – On watches and status/Twitter thread
• [03:16] – Nico’s personal collection & rarest watch
• [11:40, 13:31] – Rants on Hublot, Jacob & Co
• [14:36] – IWC/Swiss brands’ identity crisis
• [18:05] – The journey as luxury, not the product
• [27:59–29:21] – John Mayer & celebrity collections
• [32:40] – Who actually pays attention to your watch
• [42:31, 44:33] – Managing billion-dollar watch collections, loss recovery
• [52:23–56:13] – Lightning round: watch stereotypes
• [58:28–59:29] – Best watches at every price point
• [91:38] – Ethics of fake watches
• [109:17] – Success and wealth: “I have a beautiful family... I don't care about money.”
• [110:09] – Advice for success: “Add value first... I am so incredibly grateful that people watch my videos because time is our most valuable asset.”

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Watch Brand & Model Tier List (Nico’s Unfiltered Ratings)

Brands

• S: Rolex
• A: F.P. Journe, Patek Philippe, Cartier, Tudor, Swatch, Tissot PRX
• B: Grand Seiko, Seiko, JLC, Cartier Santos, Chopard
• C: Audemars Piguet, Zenith, Panerai (very critical), Vacheron Constantin
• D: H. Moser, Apple Watch
• F: Hublot, Jacob & Co, IWC

Specific Models (selected)

• AP Royal Oak: S-Tier
• Nautilus: A-Tier
• Speedmaster: B
• Casio F91W: A (“From Osama to Obama, the F91W is the best watch in the world. Bomb the Casio.” 118:43)
• Apple Watch: D, “functional but not a real watch.”
• Hublot Big Bang / Jacob & Co: F, “absolute rubbish.”

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Closing Takeaways

• Don’t believe the hype: Most “waitlists” and scarcity claims are marketing fiction.
• Buy from reputable sellers: “Buy the seller, not the watch.”
• Authenticity above all: The best collections are those with passion and intention, not simply status pieces.
• The real product is the journey and the privilege of the purchase, not the product itself.
• Support independent watchmakers: The most promising investment upside lies here, and you directly impact real craftsmen.

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For full watch tier breakdowns, bonus watch evaluations, and extended collection reviews, this episode offers even more on the Iced Coffee Hour members section!

Transcript

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[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

this industry is my life. And I think that the watch industry is lost in every way, shape or form. It's never been at a worse place than it is today. The attitude, the arrogance. The retail side of this industry is full with lies and marketing. It is actually scary. Your customer should be number one. The customer is the reason of your company, not the other way around.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So is the waitlist real?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

No, absolutely not. The watch industry tries to create a narrative for you to buy a watch. Rolex is not scarce, but yet they make you believe that they are the rarest thing in the world. The mainstream watch bands have been telling fake and bullshit to sell their product.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

What do they lie about?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Just to be very clear, it's not that I am looking for enemies, but this industry would collapse if I would tell you the truth.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Nico, thank you so much for coming on the Iced Coffee Hour.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Thank you for having me. We've been talking about this for a good a good amount of time and I'm. I'm honored that I'm here.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I've been looking forward to this a lot and I want to start by getting your reaction to this Tweet that got 30 million views not too long ago. It says if you're a guy in your early 20s, buy a Rolex. Go into debt if you have to. This is not satire. You can get a Rolex for four grand. Having a nice watch communicates status to women and business relationships. And if you buy it right, it it will hold its value, if not appreciate.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I think that's the biggest load of bollocks I've heard in a very long time. I do agree that that Watch show status. But if you need that status to do business, I think you're, I think you're overstepping the mark. I think you need to enable for you to do, do business, you need to have, have different talents first.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

But don't you think for four grand it's pretty cheap to get in?

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, but if you go in depth

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

for four grand, I think you have other problems to us, so I think you need to solve that first. If four grand gets you into debt, priorities first.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So everyone knows you as reacting to celebrity watch collections, calling out fake watches, all of this. I love those videos. I'm curious, how many watches have you currently bought, sold? What's your collection like today?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I don't know the exact number of my personal collection, but I am pretty sure it's significantly over 200. I don't think I crossed the line of 300 watches today. But like the amount of watches I've sold personally or one of my companies is, is, is, is a lot.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What's the value of that?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

We turn over about say, 35 million a year. So five years. Yes, it's quite all right. And what's a good number?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What's the most expensive watch that you own?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I would say $1.8 million. Yeah.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What is it?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

It's a Pioneek as a watch made by Audemars Piguet and it's a prototype to the, to an actual really important model watch that was never supposed to be sold.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

How do you get that?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I knew about the existence of that watch for many years, but I never really had the money to acquire that. It was quite early in my career and the gentleman that had this watch didn't really want to sell it. And at some point he did approach me and say, I'm ready to sell. And then I needed to go in depth to get that watch to get my hands on.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

And how does he get that watch to begin with?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I think he had a, he might have worked at ap.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

And so what is a piece unique for people who are not familiar?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

So piece unique is a, is a watch, there's only one off, but like you have variations. Kevin o' Leary has a piece unique on a watch which is different color stones on the bezel. You can call that a piece unique for sure. What I'm talking about is this is the actual prototype to a watch to a line of watches that was created. So this was the first one that was tried and tested. It is also a watch without a crown that, that AP only really done in 1990. 7. So it was really, really special. So a piece unique is a watch. There's one off a unique piece.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

How is it worth $1.8 million? How much did you pay for it and what do the finances look like in acquiring a watch like that?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Do you just send a wire? It's like, here's $1.8 million.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, yeah. That was just a wire. Yeah, yeah. Because I knew the owner, I knew the collector for some years and that's just based on trust. And this was in the middle of COVID and I actually had to cross the border illegally a good few times. This was crazy. But I bought it in the end in Romania, so that's where the watch was.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

How is it worth $1.8 million?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

It's worth as much as I am. As I'm saying, last offer I got was 1.8 million. How much did you pay for it? 300,000 sterling.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

300,000.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

How did you. How did he let it go for 300?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, I mean, that was at that point, the value. This is prior to absolute hype. This is. This 300 was a lot of money.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Like, how did you know that watch was going to be worth so much more in the future?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Because that's a watch that money can't buy. Like, I mean, you could have all the money in the world. I'm the only one that owns that watch. I can set the price and I can say the value is more. But the last offer I got, which I declined, was 1.8.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

What offer would you accept for that watch?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I can't say that because then all of a sudden I change the value of the watch and someone comes in.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

But if you said $20 million.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, maybe that would be. I would accept 20 million every day of the week. There we go, half it, keep it. That's not the point. The point is that I love watches that money can't buy. I mean, it's easy. Like, you see someone wearing a. I'm

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

wearing my own watch, Two tone Submariner.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I mean, there's a lot of people that have that. That's amazing. Right. But that has a certain value on average because there's so many on the market. I have a watch, it's the only one. I define the price and that's what it is.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

How often do you wear it?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

And I bought it, I was quite skinny. I was able to wear it and I enjoyed it. Not in very dangerous places. Europe is not very safe for wearing a watch of that magnitude. Right. But then I became a wee bit Heavier, basically. I became really fat. And for that watch, there's no extra links. It's not like I can call AP and say, give me some extra links. So that was a problem. So I couldn't wear it for years and now I can. Now I can't wear it. Yeah.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

So when's the last time you wore it?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Three weeks ago.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

What was the occasion?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Seen a very good friend of mine that is not well. So I was just like, yeah, it's good. I like to attach memories to. To. To watches.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. So in terms of watches themselves, who should buy a watch?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I think everyone should buy a watch. I think that is. That's massively important. I think a mechanical watch, I think we need to define that. Yeah. Or make a quite a difference in mechanical watch. And an Apple watch, for example, I think we really need to split that. The Apple watch is great for the industry, honestly. Great. Because it created a lot of risks. People are wearing watches today that wouldn't have wore watches before. We're getting used to things on our wrist. Right. So that's amazing. But I think a mechanical watch is, for a man, the only real legitimate jewelry. It's important. Like, I have kids. I bought my son a watch when he was born and I wear that watch on every single one of his birthdays. And so 17 times he's three night. So I wore it twice. And when he's 18, he gets to watch with a photo of me wearing that watch on every single one of his birthday. You see, you can't do that with anything else. And I think it's a. It shows that you're like, don't get me wrong, you can buy a watch at ten grand, but you can buy a watch at 200 quid, that's fine. But I think it's just important that you show that you take care of things. Do you think it's important? And style.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

What does a watch mean, beyond keeping time?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, that's for every person. Different, of course. Like for me it is a. It's an accolade, it's a reminder. I don't really use a watch to tell the time. It's just a reminder for me of events, moments, a story, attachment. I'm quite sentimental on that part. But for other people it's to flex. It's just show I have money. Like what. What happened there with a tweet. I think it's absolutely rubbish. I think everyone at some point in their life should be able. Should. Well, shoot is different. I would love everyone to have the possibility to spend that money on a watch, because I think you deserve that. Everyone deserves that. And it makes you feel better. It's like, buy nice clothes. It's exactly the same.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What do you think are some of the benefits today, though, of owning a really nice watch?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

To give you an idea, right, I always see this. If I see someone wearing an Omega Speedmaster, right? I always. I like to speak with that person. Not because the Speedmaster is expensive, but because I always make a joke. There's a secret club between Speedmaster owners, which is when you have the hand set at 30, you're a part of a secret club. That's a connection. Like, if I see someone wearing a nice watch, I'm like, really cool. I want to hear the story. Why did you choose that? It's a connection between people. There's not many things. Like if someone wears a nice blouse or shirt, or like, you walk up to a bloke and say, I love your shirt. No, but you do that when someone wears a nice watch, and that's acceptable. And that's exactly. It's connecting. I think that that's one of the most important reasons.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I've noticed that, too, with a lot of the people that we speak to. All you have to do is compliment them on their watch. As long as it's not something, like, too flashy or too, like, generic. There was a dude that I was playing blackjack with recently.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

You're a gambler.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I love it occasionally. But he was wearing this vintage Daytona, and it must have been from, like, the 60s.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

And it was on a leather strap and it was gorgeous. But I complimented him on this watch and he, like, his eyes lit up because it looked like just an ordinary watch. But I saw this vintage Daytona and he was so excited that someone noticed the watch. And sometimes there's little compliments or those little ins with somebody where they just appreciate that.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

The thing is, when you. When you wear a vintage Daytona, you actually think about a watch. You're. You're in this industry. You're not financially or maybe work, but you're. You really care. You care about history. Well, I would say if you wear a vintage Daytona, it shows you're very sophisticated. That person would always be very open to have that conversation.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So what watch tells you that they have zero taste?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, if you wear a Hublot, you have absolute zero taste. Like. Or Jacob and Co. I think Jacob and Co is absolutely, hugely embarrassing, to be honest. Like, I think that that is. It's funny how, like, this industry is full with lies. And marketing. It is actually scary, right? The retail side of this industry is the biggest lie you've ever seen. Like this industry would collapse if, if, if, if I would tell you the truth. Like, it would collapse.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

We're going to talk about that shortly. I'm curious though, before we talk about that, why do you hate hublot so much?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, it's got nothing to do with aesthetics, right? That's just taste. But it's about the. Just cutting corners, man. Just a generic movement that sits in Hamilton. I sell it for 20x. Why would you buy that? That's not luxury. I am genuinely what a watch says about you is. Well, I don't really. I'm not in the position where I really care about what people think of me anymore. I've got enough stuff all over me and I've given enough people to be honest. Well, that was the beginning of my career and I'm different now. I have nothing to prove anymore. I'm just like done right? After so many years being doing that. So I don't care. I can wear whatever. I can wear my own watch, I can wear a Rolex, I can wear a million dollar watch or can wear a decoy, I don't care. It's a watch that I want to wear at that moment in time. But a hublot is just a statement of I don't really care. I'm just lazy. I just watched Mbappe play promoting this. So I might just have 20 grand to spend. I'll just spend it on that. That shows that someone doesn't really care.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What about Jacob and Company?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, that you're very, very. They do too much on Instagram. That's what it shows. They're too much on social and very much influential or very, very easy to influence by your socials.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Are they worth the price?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Not even remotely. Close.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What do you think they're worth? Because I've seen, I've seen the one where you click it and it has like the roulette thing and then I've seen.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I'll get that produced for less than two and a half k. Simple. Like that's how easy it is. Like less than two and a half k. You pay a wee bit for the gold. Like, don't get me wrong, like Jacob, Jacob is a good designer to be honest. But like he's not a watchmaker. The watches are not made by Jacob Company. It's a company that's called Concepto in Switzerland that makes that and they do that for different brands. But like, I mean it's not worth anything remotely near.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What do they sell it for?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Like, to give you an idea, it's 80% off, mate. Like 50. Like I will challenge you. Anyone that watches this that is in a social space knows they bought the Jacob Co. Because they got 50% off from Jacob to make them feel special. But he does that with everyone. So how special are you? It's just a journey, man.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

You said that the entire watch industry would collapse if you said the truth.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

What is the truth? If the watch industry was actually honest, which they aren't, this, this industry would collapse.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

What do they lie about?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, I mean, look at iwc. I mean, just to be very clear, it's a complete identity crisis. I would say that, that it's all about selling watches. It's all about. Listen, I'm not mad about, about, about economy of scale. You want to, you need sell watches. The business, right, all good. But stores to sell a watch like IWC this year came out with some astronaut watch. IWC is known for making formal watches and Portuguese absolutely class Portofino. Amazing. But all of a sudden they want to make the most complicated tourbillons. That's not you, that's not them. IWC is absolutely lost. Identity crisis. Worse than MJ or Michael Jackson at his prime, to be honest. But the watch industry tries to create a narrative for you to buy a watch, right? And that's a problem as well as that. The journey of buying a Rolex, I mean, that's quite controversial, to be honest.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What do you think about it?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, what do you think?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I hate it. So what really upset me was that I walked in to a Rolex boutique and I was wearing a 19018 Oysterquartz. And I thought for sure some sales associate would at least mention it. It's such a unique watch. And I go in there and the lady's just on her phone, she could not give a shit that I was there and I just said, hey, do you have a land dweller? I just want to be able to look at it. I'm not going in asking for a Daytona, I'm not asking for an allocation. I just want to look at it. No, we don't have it. And then she was on her phone the entire time, never asked any questions, she couldn't care and I left. And that turned me off so much. All she had to do is say, oh, where are you from? Oh, you let your. A local. Oh, that's nice. Oh, that's, that, that's an oyster. I was so fed up with it that I left.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

But yeah, I do think that's more an American thing because like the Rolex is one problem, right? They have only one, only really one boutique themselves and that's in Geneva. They actually care. They're incredibly passionate people. What you're talking to is someone that actually don't care. It's a normal job for them if they're still associated at a Rolex or a sales associate at some tire place or used tire place. I don't know what you have here in the US that's more an American US type of thing. They just don't care. They don't know what you're wearing. They have no idea. And I noticed that in Vegas. To be honest, I think the worst of the worst I've seen in Vegas wanted to, this is five, six years ago. I wanted to buy a specific Daytona and I mean the woman was on her phone. I have photos of that, I have photos of that. I'm like, and I lost the plot that day. Like you're an embarrassment for a brand. You're representing the brand. And that's a wee bit of a problem with Rolex because they don't consider control what an authorized dealer does or doesn't do and they just don't care.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, I didn't like it either. I went into a different boutique and it was display only and then they said, oh, but we had these pre owned watches instead. Yeah, I'm looking at the pre owned watches and then I pull up on Chrono24. I probably shouldn't have done this. And I said, well here's the same watch but this is 20% cheaper with box and papers and I could buy. Why would I pay 20%? Oh well, because you get it now and it comes with the Rolex. Get I don't care for 20% last I go on 24, get a top trusted seller. I hate it.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

It ruined the entire experience for me.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Like this point, like this thing which you mentioned, right. I think you're looking at a different way. Right. You think that the watches are the luxury aspect, but it's actually the journey. Let me explain. Rolex is not scarce. Like it's not rare at all. Like Rolex makes in, I would say three weeks what Patek makes in one year. Like Rolex is not scarce, but yet they make you believe that they are the rarest thing in the world. Right? So it's funny, the whole thing is they make you feel it's actually a privilege for you to buy a Rolex to make you feel it's a privilege. So privilege in that part becomes a luxury, right? So you need to be grateful that you're considered being able to buy a Rolex. So you're waiting there, you're sitting there. Privilege is a luxury in this car part, right? Okay, you get the phone call. Finally you can pick it up. Champagne. Oh, I've been considered. That's amazing, that journey. Endorphins going. You get a phone call, you can pick up your watch. More celebrations, more good Instagram photos. Ha. Look, I got my new Rollie by my course, whatever, right? Then you have the watch, then you own the watch, then you wear the watch. It's like, oh, what's next? I want another one like that. Journey is the product. That cycle is the product. Not the watch, not the product. That journey is the luxury.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So is the waitlist real?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

No, absolutely not.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

How do you move up on the wait list? That's not real.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

This episode is in partnership with Airbnb. So Graham and I just wrapped up a trip. We were in Austin for a few days. We filmed episodes with Togi, Chris Camillo and Caleb Hammer. And honestly, every time we're on the road, we're staying at homes on Airbnb. It's just become the default.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

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[Graham (Podcast Host)]

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[Jack (Podcast Host)]

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[Jack (Podcast Host)]

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[Graham (Podcast Host)]

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[Jack (Podcast Host)]

How do you move up on the wait list? That's not real.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, let me put it this way. If you have a buddy at Rolex or the Rolex authorized dealer, because we need to separate that Rolex only has one shop that's in Geneva. Rolex recently, well, in recent years acquired booker. Incredible boutique. I must say the team, very passionate young people that actually care, that actually care about the brand and the product. Right, that's only in Geneva. But that's where what I have seen, you just need to suck it up. If you want the Rolex, you need to suck it up. And if you. That is not what you want to do, which I think you shouldn't be doing, just buy a watch whenever you have the money and buy it on the gray market. And I would argue to say that the gray market is the true. Is the truth of the industry. Like retail is just a bloody lie.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

But in terms of getting the allocation that you want, is there any trick, is there any way to do that? Because I've seen these people on the forums that they're like, I go in every single week and when they give you an allocation, you have to take it and then you have to keep visiting them. And I text my ad all the time and I become friends. I've even heard of them inviting their ad out for dinners and like bringing them on to like, you know, family experiences and all this to get close with them. And then they get, you know, the allocation, they keep buying it.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Is.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Is that the way to do it?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Do you see what you say there yourself? That whole journey is the luxury aspect. It's all been a. It's all a lot. Like Rolex is key in that. Like Rolex is the king in that. That whole journey of being going out for dinner, doing this, taking this person out, going in again, buying another one. That's the luxury aspect. Humans want, but they cannot have. So they would do whatever it takes. That's the privilege. That's the luxury aspect of it. What you're describing here, that journey is the true form of the luxury aspect of Rolex. And that's what I tried to sell. So no, you cannot avoid that unless you, your buddy owns the retail boutique which, or you say, you just make a deal, I'll buy this watch. You just be straight up. I was in. I was quite straight up. I'll buy this watch. For 400,000 Swiss Franc, I'll buy that. But I want this watch and this watch within nine, two months. Can you make that happen? Yes. They have the Daytonas in the back.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

They do, so I've been told. Sometimes they only get like a few Daytonas.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

It's a load of bollocks.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

That's a lie.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

It's a load of bollocks. It's an absolute lie. It's the journey and they want to keep you on that journey. And this is why I say, like, if I tell you the real truth of how this industry goes, like, IWC has tried exactly this. They understood that the cycle of you purchasing a watch, the cycle of the journey, was actually the one that sold the watches. Not the watches, not the product itself. It was the journey. Right? So IWC introduces the engineer and they do exactly the same as Rolex. But it's iwc, it's embarrassing. They tried it, Vacheron Constantin overseas. Nobody blinked an eyelid to it, right? All of a sudden, this IWC of this, this, this overseas. Oh, best thing in the world allocation only all of a sudden people started, oh, I can't get it. So I want it. The 2 to 2 launch. Embarrassing. Very poorly executed. They have the watches, the production is easy, but it's the journey that they tried to sell to make you. Well, did you make you part of that?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Did you see the YouTube video where this guy goes in a Rolex boutique, I think this is in London, and asks for a Hulk and they say, sorry, we don't have one. You can get on the wait list. He's like, no, I'm okay. He gets a fake Johnny Depp. Gets him in full, you know, costume as a celebrity, calls Rolex ahead of time. Hey, we got a celebrity coming in, gets fake paparazzi. Johnny Depp walks in, they walk him straight to the back and he gets that exact watch.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, that's why I told you, like, they have the watches. But the journey is for you as a normal bloke, right? The journey is. That's a luxury. That's the actual product. That's why you want the watch, because you can't get it.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

So then which watch, when worn, tells you immediately that that person has class?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

If you wear a vintage watch, that tells me several things about you. You care about your family or it's a family heirloom, Right? And it's funny, I was with. I'm here for the wwe, my first wrestling experience. I'm quite close with Joe Roman Reigns, one of his agents. Or people, business people that are around him. Was wearing a Oyster Perpetual, funny enough. And I noticed that I was like, that could either mean two things, right? You just bought your first Rolex and didn't want to spend a certain amount. But I. You look very flat or you look quite well dressed and stuff. So I don't think that that's the case or it is something you inherited. He's like, yeah, it was my dad. And I like, I'll blow your mind now. Right. Have you ever polished this watch or cleaned this watch? It's like, no. Well, give me your watch. And I opened the clasp and I moved the bracelet from the clasp. I was like, see that? That's dead skin. That's your dad. And he was like, what? I'm like, it tells me a lot about a person, right? It was. He was mind blown, right? Like, if you check your Rolex, right, Open it up, your clasp, you'll see, you'll find the dead skinny, actually.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Oh, gosh. You know who's watched this is.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I have no idea. Who is it?

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Take a look on the back.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Take a look on the back.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Oh, my God. Was it so bad that he had to sell it or do you give it to me?

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

He gave it to me.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

That's cool. Like, that's cool. I always liked him.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

He gave it to Jack on the podcast.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So you're saying there's a bit of Liver King skin on this watch?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yes.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Smell it.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, you see this? That's all dead skin. That black stuff. Look at it. Wow. Oh, my gosh. That's funny, isn't it?

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Does this appear to be real to you? Because a lot of people.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

It feels.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

A lot of what Liver King does is fake. Is the watch that he gave me.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

No. That feels right, to be honest. Yeah, it feels right. Solid. Like the sound of a bracelet. You can't replicate that. Like gold. You can't really fake. Well, it tell you a funny story. Back in the day, Cartier was so bad at making watches. It's actually scary that people were just like. They were popular, but they were just so bad. Their movements were like the worst of the worst. So people did. They made fake Cartiers from real gold. And I just put a better moving than that. I just sold it, like genuinely. That was. That was fake watch. Like, you see a lot of Nautiluses today? Like a lot. I'm talking a lot. I'll probably. That's probably. I'll. If I have a WhatsApp chat I can show you. Yeah, Offered today. Like a proper nautilus for like 20 grand. Like, you think it's proper Nautilus, but the case embraces all aftermarket. It's funny, like. Yeah. And it's all real gold. Like, I mean, that's not. That's different. But the sign that a link makes this is Rolex.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Speaking of celebrity watches like this, what celebrity has the best watch collection?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I love that question. I love that. Well, I would rate a watch collection. Sorry, I would rate a watch collection a wee bit different than anyone else. Right. I like I said I like to look at watches that money can't buy. You can have a gazillion dollars on your bank. Spend $50 million on watches

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[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

It can all be ap and I can buy every single one of them if I want to on the market. All I need is money. I don't need effort. I just need money. Right, that's it. Of course, I could talk Kevin Hart. I can talk about Mark Wahlberg.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Amazing collections. But do they actually think about watches or they just buy whatever they want there? Mark is always the first one with the newest Rolex. Yeah. And Kevin is always the first one with the new apartment. Is that really, like. This is someone that really makes an effort, like thinks about it. That's what I love. True passion, intention. Yeah.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

What about John Mayer?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

John is an incredible watch collector. I speak with him regularly about certain pieces. He has stuff that the world has never seen. Really, really insane stuff, like Double Signed, but not by Tiffany. I can't tell you what it is, but we're talking. I can't. But like Double side means a retailer that once upon a time sold a Rolex with their name on it. And it's absolutely gigantic. It is very. John is, is. Is very. Read into this, John. This is John's life. I am absolutely gutted that he'd done that collaboration with ap, because that didn't help his status. He didn't have to do that. I understand he's passionate. He loves watches. And Francois Benoit, which I think is the best leader the last two decades in the watch industry. I understand it. AP comes. You want to Do a watch together, bring it to the world. That really like the John Mayer connection with watches was so authentic. Like we called the green Daytona the John Mayer. It was authentic. It wasn't a marketing ploy. It wasn't designed by some marketing agency to sell that Daytona. No. He made a video with Ben Clymer about that watch or about his collection. He named that watch and that watch was sold out ever since. Authentic, no marketing ploy. AP watch with AP marketing ploy. Bomb it. I, I think if he looks back to that, I'm pretty sure that, that he would have loved to do that differently. Looking back, what do you think he should have done differently to stay away from that? Just being advised, don't attach your name to anything. Let it, let it run. Let it authentically run. I think that that's the key because, like, I mean, we're living in a world where everything is fake. We, we need a wee bit of authenticity in our life.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Speaking of authenticity, what is the best watch to get the attention of ladies?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I love it. I don't think there's any watch or an iced out watch. I. It's very funny. I was wearing, I was in Texas. Frisco. I love Frisco. I want to buy a house in Frisco in Texas. I think it's brilliant. And I was wearing my white gold day date pave dial, full diamond set bezel. And the ladies did notice that. Oh, that's, that's. What is that? That's funny. So that notice. But I have never been able to pull women with a watch, to be honest.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

What about just in general?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I feel like a Cartier, like a good men's tank would do well for. It's not too flashy. But you know what? It shows class. It shows some sophistication.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Not a single woman will know what you wear. If you wear Cartier, it is a bloke that will know. So all you're attracting is blokes.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

But you don't think they see Cartier and they're like, oh, I like.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

No, they see a watch, that's cool. I move on. Women absolutely do not care about.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

So you're saying that you've transacted. I mean in the nine figures, over $100 million worth of watches. You have never had a girl come up to you, aside from that one experience, to compliment your watch.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

And always a bloke. It's always been a bloke. Today, twice with my watch. Twice. The driver dropped us off. Oh, cool watch. And at the hotel, so that's really interesting.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

So women typically are not interested whatsoever in watches?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Maybe. Maybe it's me that I kind of. Well, that women are not very much attracted to me. That could. You could be a one as well. But I have never been able to. Well, back in the day, neither with cars, to be honest.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So if some dude is dating, you would not recommend buy this watch?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Absolutely not. No, no, no.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Would you recommend a car?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

No, I would recommend not to wear an Apple watch. That's a toy. Come on. Like, I mean, it's good. It's whatever. Don't wear an Apple watch. Like, rare nothing. Or wear something, whatever you feel like.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

So how would a man attract a woman in general?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I mean, be confident. Like, you don't like to be fair. Like, if I put a watch on a specific watch, I wear a specific Nautilus or an RM or something really, like specific silent luxury or extreme in your face. It gives me a confidence boost. Like, I'm not gonna lie, you would say him as dressing nice. You want to dress nice. Nice shoes. You want to feel nice. You wear a nice suit. Right? Just that make gives you confidence. Same with a watch.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

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[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Here's a list of celebrities. Tell us what you think of their watches.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah. Minute repeater. Unbelievable. Split second chronograph. Perpetual calendar. Holy skeletonized.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

How much is that watch worth?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

People have no idea. The split second chronograph is one of the most complicated movements ever. Like, this is not a watch you buy. This is not like you need to know what you're doing here. Right. This is absolutely nuts. This is one of the most complicated watches that, that AP has ever produced. It's insane. But he's not wearing that watch in that photo because he's wearing a aftermarket 15 407.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Good catch.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

There you go.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Kevin Hart.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Kevin Hart. Platinum Daytona. Unbelievable. Important watch, by the way. Advanced Research Aquanaut. Interesting story about that. Advanced research is is a specific department, is a special department specialized in innovations within Patek Philippe. And in this case, it's about the usage of silicone in the movement. Well, give you an idea. Metal to metal in a movement scrapes. Right? Silicone to silicone doesn't scrape. What happens to a watch when it constantly scrapes? It needs to be serviced quite regularly. And silicone is used. It doesn't really scrape. So it doesn't really need to have be surfaced every time. So it increases the surface intervals like years. So that's amazing. Fantastic. Really important watch. And of course, the Tourbillon, which is class royal. Listen, this is one of those. I. I could buy every single one of these pieces tomorrow if I want to.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So here's another one that I guess money just can buy in terms of a collection. But what do you think? Is this a rounded collection, do you think?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

So I'm seeing the white gold 15407 BC which is white gold frosted. See the 5990 Rose. Very special watch. So I see Nautilus. I see AP. I see the same designer, Gerald Genta designed both, is responsible for both. I see the Royal Oak offshore. Again, a Daytona really important yellow gold submariner Plas day date. I have that exact one here. All different dial configuration. Meteorite. The Gibeon meteorite day date. Gibbon is a stone, a meteorite that landed in Namibia in Africa and Rolex harvested as harvest throughout the years. Well, you can't last 10 years. You can't touch that stone anymore. But They've harvested that 20 years ago and they use that now in dial configurations. And a really cool yellow gold Daytona. I believe that there is like the Nautilus was a hype piece. Like these are all hype watches. Yeah, Like Nautilus, Royal Oak. They wasn't a hype watch, but Daytona was for sure. Yeah. I think it's a really rounded collection. But again, how much thought. But maybe he doesn't care about it too much. He just likes. He just wants to buy and that's fine too. He just wants to buy what he likes.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Change it up a little bit.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. The bloke on the left that must have been gifted. Like Hublot doesn't sell any watches like. Like this. Now that's 100% gifted.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

They just give him the watch.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

100.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

He gets photos of it, it gets publicity. So it's. It's their marketing expense.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah. And then DJ Khaleed, well, he's a wee bit bigger here, so this must have been a couple of years ago. Knowing him is probably aftermarket. And yeah, that's quite sad. But he now has a really serious collection full with pieces that money can buy. I would love. This is what I do. This is my work and people have no idea. I actually manage about a billion dollars of watches collections. That's what I do. That's my work. Right. People ask me, what is your work? I manage watch collections and I always look at the, like look at watches that money can't buy. So that's what I find. That's why. That's why I travel all over the world. So yesterday we were supposed to film this. I had to jump on a jet to get somewhere to pick up a watch that money cannot buy. To secure that for a client. For a client, yeah. Wow. These celebrities, like, you love watches. You love watches to a certain degree. I'm just extremely excessively obsessed. That's what it is. So I look at small details, I look at things like that. These guys have other careers, they're busy with other stuff. And well, DJ Khaled plays golf. I love golf. So they don't want to go into that journey. But you see people maturing throughout the years. I've seen DJ Khaleed maturing massively. Of course, I have absolutely ripped every celebrity apart, including DJ Khaleed. And they must hate me for the rest of their lives.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Have you ever been wrong when you've called someone out?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

When I call someone out, my reputation is everything. I'm not wrong. I don't call someone out because it's a coincidence. I call someone out because I know exactly every in and out.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

You manage $1 billion worth of watches. Explain to me the business behind that.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, it's quite of a new thing in the watch industry to be honest. Like that. Watches are seen as a luxury asset class, like it's normal in the art art sector. Like you have people managing art collections worth gazillions like car collections. Even watches and cars are actually really close to each other. Funny bit is I manage everything from acquisition to consolidation or to consolidate collections to like proper selling of pieces. Give you an idea. If you have 250 watches, you are in a certain value bracket, you're worth something. Spent a lot of money on 250 watches. You don't want to worry about servicing every single watch. And every single watch is a different service interval, same as every single car. Needs to be. Well, needs to be. The trickle charger needs to be. That needs to be managed. Usually when you have a collection of that magnitude, you also have different houses, you live across the world, where are your watches? You want to keep track of that. So a real important part to understand is that you need someone to properly manage that. Depending of what a collector's goal is, of course. Right. Every collector has a different goal. One collector just wants to collect every single watch ever created from this brand. And you have another collector that wants to see a growth of his investments. And he says, I'm spending 25 to 50 million. 25 is. Well, that would be the absolute bare minimum, to be honest. But he wants to spend 25 million on a watch collection. It's not that I buy 25 million worth of watches. No, no, no. Like I help him, we'll find them. We work together, we tailor that to what he actually wants to achieve. And. And it's all different. And it's funny. I'm going to say something crazy. One of the biggest watch collectors in the world is a woman. And yeah, it's insane. I can't tell you who it is.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

What is she worth?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I can't time.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

So when you're working with these clients and they're wearing these watches I imagine some of your clients have watched that are four or five million dollars.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Have you ever had a client lose a watch?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, yeah. And my task is in as well

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

to find out how expensive was the watch.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

They lost two and a half million.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

How do they lose two and a half million dollars?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

You see it as two and a half million dollars, but when you have just a wristwatch or watch on your wrist, it's just a watch. And the funny bit is like, can happen very quickly in Vegas. You hear it all the time. You get drugged, brought to a room and they walk away with the watch. Like you hear that all the time. Yesterday I heard that from someone.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What, wait, what happened yesterday?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

So someone goes in a casino, goes drinking, is alone, a bloke, whatever. And, and just, I mean, meets a girl, girl is very interested and brings him up to the room and he get drugged and his watches are gone. One of which I didn't, I don't think it was a watch. But his wallet was stolen, like, I mean, it's what happens.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

And then how do you trace it down?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

A Rolex is difficult to trace down.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

But specific watches. Well, I can show you a photo of a George Daniels. Right. I know that George Daniels only produced. He only. George Daniels is the most important watchmaker in the world, hands down. Without George Daniels, the watch world would have looked completely different. He only touched. We only produced like 37 watches in his entire life. And he's known as the, he's the man responsible for the coaxial escapement that Omega bought. And he only touched 37 watches himself. Right. 24 of which were wristwatches. So it's easy to find. It's easy to find because someone that steals that is going to have to sell it and that person googles and sees. Oh, that's a lot of money. Yeah, it's a lot of money. So they want to sell that. That will always come on the market. And something that is so niche, so rare. Yeah, that's easy to find.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Did you end up finding it?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

That was the, wasn't the George Daniels, by the way, that got stolen, but yes, I did.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

You. So your client lost a two and a half million dollar watch and you went out and found it?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, I did.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

How did you find.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

We don't have possession of that watch yet because it's still in police custody.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Now who loses money in that deal? If you find the watch, like, does the owner just automatically just get it back?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

No.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Or like what if it gets Sold. And someone's like buys it for 100 grand and then they owned the watch, they genuinely didn't know it was stolen. And then someone says, oh, that's my watch. Do they just have to get it back? And then the person who spent the money is just out the money.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I'm not, I'm not a legal expert, so I, I don't know how that goes in this case. The court case is on. This guy is going to go to jail and the court case. And whenever that's finished, I think the asset is going to be released. But at least the asset now, the watch now is in possession of the police safely. So until that is, the court case is going. And that could be a year, two years maybe, I don't know. But as soon as that is released, that watch is going to go back to its original.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

So do you just take a percent or so of the billion dollars worth of watches that you manage?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, no, it's not. Doesn't work like that. In acquisition or consolidation, I take 15% on both sides. Sell one, sell on purchase. Right. But it's like, it sounds like this. The funny bit is we talk about this as if it's like something mad. But you know what a funny bit is? This is this has been going on for decades in the world of art.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

I don't think it sounds insane.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, it's been going on for decades in the automotive space. Like for watches, it's maybe a wee bit relatively new, but like if you have, say you have 200 watches, 300 watches, right? Like, you need to, you need to think about how you store those. Like those watches need to be serviced and every watch has a different service interval that, that needs to be managed. That's also. You want to know what the value is today. You also want to know and make sure that that value maintains if that is your goal with collecting. And that is really important. So that is one of the goals. That's what we set out. And I mean, it's relatively new in a public space for watches, but like it's been going on for a good few years. I would be personally one of, probably one of the biggest ones that, that manages that.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

So if I'm just doing back of the napkin math, you said it's 15% of $1 billion.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

No, it's not.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

So what am I getting?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

That's only acquisition. So. Yeah, so that's only acquisition, in and out. So meaning I, my, my margin is about 15% of acquisition and 15% of selling. So I take 15% of both sides from the buyer and the seller. It's not 15% of $1 billion that I manage. The combined collection is 15 million. But it's very often like I didn't sell those billion dollar watches. I didn't. The majority of well 90%, 95% of those watches have already been acquired. But the deal is simple. Any watch that's been added or any watch that's being moved from that moment that we sign is 15% in and out.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

So if they end up selling at some point in the future, then you would retain 15% of the sale price.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I like to think that that is really. That's incredible maths. That's the absolutely unbelievable. I've never have to work again. But I don't think it worked like that. How it works and that part is that the collection is going to be hand down depending what the goal is of that person. But nobody's going to sell 10 million, 20 million. And I'm managing a collection for a couple of years. That doesn't mean that that is the end of the road. Like if I manage a collection for five, six years and the the guy is finished, is done or wants to move on, I don't have right to 15% of his collection. No, I have right of 15% of every watch that has been bought and sold from the moment you signed up.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So if someone's buying or selling a watch, what's the best way to both get a deal and to get the highest price on a watch? Is it auction? Is it Chrono 24? Is it private party? Is it just reaching out?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I would always say if you want a deal, don't ever buy from an auction. Well, very often I would also say if you want to have a legit right. Auctions are not always the right place to do want to sell watch, sell something really special. Auction is the way to go, right? Private buyers, fantastic, amazing. But like certain watches don't need. You don't need to look for a new owner you already. I don't have to. If I. If one of my clients wants to sell his piece unique or wants to sell is one of the crown collection Rolexes which nobody knows off or not many people know of. A crown collection is something you know it also you know off catalog. But above that there's also another collection. If someone wants to sell that I don't have to look for a buyer. There's 20 people that want to buy that because every day pass and there's less and less in the world. Meaning that the demand will always be there for that because it's so extremely collectible and important. So, like, it's.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

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[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

It really depends case by case. Okay.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

And how do you make sure you're not getting scammed? And as both a seller or a buyer? Because I've been thinking about selling this watch because I never wear it, but I don't want to be posting on Instagram like, hey, guys, so you make

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

a YouTube video, you just like, say, I'm going to sell it. Fair enough.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

But how do I make sure I'm not going to get scammed? And how does a buyer know they're getting the real watch?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, I don't know about how people can avoid being scammed. That's not really. Like I've. I own a retail business and we sell watches and we buy watches. Right. And I think it's really important to buy the seller or buy the person instead of going to the best offer. Right. Give you an idea. If you have a Nautilus. Osh. I can make 20 grand. Yeah. Or 30 grand. They sell the watch to this dealer. The new owner registers himself as the new owner and bomb. The guy will never buy another watch again because he's blacklisted because he sold his Nautilus. Your case will be different. But I mean, I would argue to say just buy the seller, buy the bag. Like, do business with people that you feel comfortable with. And that's the key. How do you get. How can you avoid to get scammed? Do your research not about the watch, but about the people you do business with.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So funny. Doug demuro said the exact same thing in terms of selling cars. He said you always have to buy the seller. When the seller has good documentation, the car is immaculate, you speak with them. That is a good sign. So it's funny. Same thing.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Everything can be. You can find everything on. Yeah. Online. Like, if you search me, there's a lot of people that hate me, but there's a lot of people that. That do like me. Oh, that weighs up. But like, being so long on top of the tree is difficult without getting or try people to Try to either do you wrong or whatever, mate. I have been. I've been. I've lost fortunes. I've been stolen from. I've been. Or you've no idea lost half a million. I'm not going to go into greater detail right now with that. But like I've been victim of that as well and I am someone that is very thorough. Right. And. But certain situations are unavoidable. Yeah. But just buy. If you. If you just want to buy a watch or you just want to sell the watch, just do your research to the people. It's about the people you do business with.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Speaking of cars, a watch really says a lot about you. And I'm curious in terms of watch stereotypes that you've noticed.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

And so we'll list a few of these and just give us your initial impression.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Rolex High school dropout.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Why?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Because it's just like love it. It's like I'm a high school dropout. I always wanted to have a Rolex. F teachers hate them. I wanted the Rolex. AP AP first money made. Investment banking first money made. Definitely money made. Already has a Rolex or just skipped the queue and just went AP because he loves watching YouTube videos and people wearing AP loves hip hop for sure. Loves hip hop for sure. 100 yeah that would be. That would be AP Patek either extremely classy, well dressed, serious, very serious, very thorough, very thoughtful hublot, Very, very easy to be influenced and absolutely do not care. Maybe even being a builder of a construction company. Richard Mille Very insecure tutor. Someone that actually is not really that fussed about what people think of watches or someone that is on the beginning of his watch collecting journey.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Grand Seiko.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I love how you done that. I love that. I have never heard a Rolex owner stating that this is much better than Grand Seco. But I hear every single time, without exception a Grand Seco owner saying that this is better than Rolex. I would say a Grand Seco stereotype for someone that wears Grand Sico or loves Grupo Grand Sico is someone that is just against everything. Just wants to be on the opposite spectrum of everything. Everything but mainstream Casio. You don't care. You are just wearing a watch because it is bloody functional. Zenith Love how you got there. Someone that is actually does this research thinks about it's very considerate. Wants to buy a watch that like he doesn't impulse buy a watch. That watch was never an impulse buy. Never. So a guy that is is genuinely wants to know more and realized that Zenith actually was really important. Jlc that's a really difficult one. I do like that someone that loves heritage and wants to not wear just doesn't want to spend the money for a Patek Philippe doesn't see the value in that but do want to wear something that is historically very important. I really like the person that wears Jaeger LeCoultre.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Yeah let's try this now just one word. The first word that comes to mind. People who finance watches are stupid. People who wear watches at the gym are stupid. People who are concerned about losing value are.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I'm just. You just. You just raided up and again the first word is like don't buy a watch. Oh and it's one word.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

It's one word, one word.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Ridiculous.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Aftermarket diamonds and watches insecure. The Rolex wait list is fake. The watch industry is a scam. The most overrated watch brand Hublot. The biggest waste of money in watches is Jacob McGo. The biggest flex watch rich epi a guy wearing a hundred thousand dollar watch but broke is gambler A guy wearing a hundred dollar watch but is rich is my type of guy the biggest lie watch People tell themselves that you

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

can pull incredible women with watches.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

The dumbest watch purchase you see people

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

going into because people gambling they give you an idea, right? I know it's one word but I can't there's. It's impossible to make it. People go on holiday and buy a watch tax free at the airport or a cruise ship because they have no idea that that watch can be bought for even half of the price of tax free is when they just click on the Internet.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

The cheapest place to buy watches you'd say is on the Internet secondhand.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah. Or the uk.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Now when it comes to buying a watch how wealthy do you think you should be to buy your first Rolex?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well I'm not the great I'm not the greatest example for that because I'm an absolute degenerate and I've always spent every penny that I had into watches. So I'm not the greatest best example but I think you should be able to I think for you for I think to consider it wise to buy a luxury product I think you need to be able to afford it at least five times just to be in a safe side like I mean that would be. I am not that guy. Yeah I went all in. I my first ever Ferrari I put the deposit down at 25k and it was like 1200 quid a month and that was all the money I had. It is what it is.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

How often do you see people buying watches that, you know, they just can't afford it?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I never do. I never do because I. My business also never do. It does. We don't really do finance, but maybe

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

they just scrape together all the money. Like they have 20 grand of their life and they're just like, let me go and buy this. Ap.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I don't think I ever see that. I don't think the business has ever seen that. I don't think so. I don't know about people's like funny bit is with Americans, right? Americans are significantly more open than, than people in the UK and Europe. Right. I actually love America. Like American and like I love America. That is what it is, right? Like people are so much so, so like completely open here. Like I don't see that. And next to that, personally, I don't really sell watches below a certain amount, to be honest. So I don't really know. And those people are not really in that financial situation.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

We're going to name a few price points and you're going to say the best watch at each price point.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Love that. $1,000 Tissotprx Hanstein $10,000 116610 ln doesn't matter if it's with papers. Submariner Steel previous gen. Unbelievable.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

$25,000.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Why do I go back to Rolex again? That's really annoying. That's really annoying. We shouldn't be doing that. But $25,000 one the 16618 LN solid gold RLB 16,618 lbs. The blue dial solid gold Submariner. Right. But the older generation, you buy that for $25,000 easy.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

$50,000.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

AP Chronograph 26331St $100,000. A 3700 Patek Philippe Nautilus $1,000,000 vintage Daytona specific 6241 like something Paul Newman something really special.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So I'm curious when it comes to collector watches like this because I'm really into the value aspect. What watches do you think are good or safe to go up in value?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I don't think that any watch that you know about will go up in value. Well, that would be worth your time. 99% of the watches are not investment. Like the fact that you would know or you would think that that watch is an investment means it passes so many, so many more people.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So I would argue, I would think the floating dial Zenith Daytonas are undervalued.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Oh yeah, they're undervalued. But the Porcelain Daytonas are, are, are, are undervalued. That stuff. That's all undervalued. But like in the, today's market, like, you need to understand that people say, I'm buying this Rolex Daytona, this, this, this new ceramic because it's an investment. Then I laugh. I'm like, what is an investment? 6% a year? Like, I mean, is that really.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I'm not talking about new watches, but if you could, out of all the watches out there, spectrum from the 1900s through today, if there's watches out there that you think, hey, I think this is going to 10x over the next 20 years.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, I, for a fact, there's, there's Richeppe Chappie. Any watches that he touches is, is absolutely you. You've probably never heard of that, have you? No, no, exactly. So that's why I, and you may have heard this here first, people have talked about it, but that's because I'm an industry insider. He only produces a handful of watches a year. Luca Soprano, you've never heard of that. 80k Swiss Franc. That's where you buy his watch set. But I'm telling you, that's the future. Aurelia. Young guy, worked at H? Moser. Have you heard of H? Moser? Yes, right.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

That one I got.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Young guy, right, Just, just, just became a father of his second child. Like, we're talking real people that make real watches. Like, this is the big difference. What you don't get, right, the luxury aspect of the watch industry is a, is as far as you know, is a brand. But as far as I know, it's the people behind it that make it. You cannot, like, you don't know any Rolex. But how do we know, how do

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

we know which ones are going to be the future FP Journe?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, it's not that hard. Recepi is going to surpass FP Journe any day of the week. Simon Brett is going to surpass FP Journe any day of the week. Like, those are independent watch brands. Independent watchmaker, Sorry, correction. There's a difference between a watch brand and a watchmaker. That's a gigantic difference. I thought this was the most funniest thing in the world. You had the British watchmakers days. That was like this big event and I'm like, there was one watchmaker and the rest were watch brands. How the hell can you call that the British watchmaker days? I think that's the biggest fraud ever. A watch brand and a watchmaker is a different Roger Smith was the only watchmaker that was on the British watchmaking days. That was the only one. The rest were just watch brands that with bracelets from China movements from there. They just assemble a watch that's not a watchmaker. If you think you're a watchmaker by just assembling watches, you're an embarrassment. To be frank. Well, you do not know if you buy a Jaeger Lecoultre who made your watch. So it's a mass product. But Richemont. But Jaeger Lecoultre is owned by Richemont. It's a conglomerate. Their business model is simple. Turin has many watches because that will give us profit. Aurelia young guy, you actually make a direct impact on his life. He can only produce a handful of watches a year. That's a watch that money can't buy because it's time you need. Same with Luca. Same with Rusepi. Rusepi makes Rechepi is the Neo FV Jordan and above that. And people have no idea.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

How do you get one?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Impossible. That's what some money can't buy. So is it?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

How do I get on the wait list?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, you need to go to Switzerland a lot of times and be very nice to Rechepi.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

And have to take him out to dinners.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Exactly.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Family outings.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

You're one of the thousands of people, right? Simon Red. Exactly the same.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

He's not going to accept your logo.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So if I walk in, is he going to be on his phone like the lack Best I could do. Can I get 50 off? I Jacob and Go offered me 50. Boom.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

50% off. Like the thing is right. The reason why these independent watchmakers are such a success. It's because the mainstream watch brands have been telling fake and stories to sell

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

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[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

The reason why these independent watchmakers are such a success, it's because the mainstream watch brands have been telling fake and stories to sell Their product iwc. I would like make. What do you call the island boys of more authenticity than IWC ever had. IWC is complete lost. Michael Jackson at his prime at a had more, less of an identity crisis than IWC has today. It's Matt, right? Same with other. Several other brands. Panagai has no idea what the hell is going on. Like, those are not, those are not people that care about watches. The thing is like their marketing teams. Well, if you have marketing director of one brand, you're only going to be a marketing director of that brand for like two years. Then you swap to another brand.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

You say all this stuff. Do you worry about lawsuits and getting sued where you just said that about Panerai and Panerai is like, well, wait a second, we do care about our wa. We do. We're not just a marketing hub. And then like slapping you with a lawsuit or like and desist. I think you damaged Jacob and co. Let's just say because he's like, that's patently false that we, you know, discount our watches 50. I don't know. I'm just saying.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I hear what you're saying, but I have freedom of speech. No, I've not been sued because why the fuck I'm telling the truth. Prove me otherwise. If I lie, if I give you misinformation, sue me. Show me. But everything I tell you, everything I say is the truth. So if I make a statement and it's absolute, the truth. Jacob Pico doesn't make a watch. It's concepto that makes that simple as that's the truth. So they have to now prove to me that like that well, or I need to prove that, that they do that well, that's very easy. Like I'm not a. Like, it's not that I am looking for enemies all day, every day. I just cut through the crap. I just want. This industry is my life, right? This is my life. This is not a money thing. I don't care about money, right? I care about support. I care about how my son will see me whenever he is old enough. I stand for something. And I think that the watch industry is lost in every way, shape or form.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

1.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

It's never been at a worse place than it is today. And it's sad. But it's not that people don't buy watches because they do. But it's the way the watch brands communicate. And this is why the independent watch space is so vitally important. And there's a watch for a watchmaker, a real guy, a genuine Person that works his ass off in design was his biggest ambition. And I'm able to spend 3,000 points, buy his watch. I not only make his, like his day or his life or whatever, like, I mean, I'm actually making a direct impact. I'd rather see that than throwing a. Buying another panerai and whatever.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Would you wear only Hublot's for one year? For a million dollars?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Not for a million dollars. No, no, no chance.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

How much would you have to be paid to only wear Hublots?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

25 million, at least.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

$25 million.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

So Hublot, to be honest, mate, Hublot, they're. I like this whole thing was all fun and games, Hublot and this and that, right? But from the bottom of my heart, I am really embarrassed for people that have bought Hublot. And I'm just gonna give you glasses. Yeah. Because it actually pisses me off, right?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

That's what you did, Jack, Right.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

It actually royally pisses me off on another level, right. Hublot wanted to make a video, right, with me, right? And I'm like, fine, well, let's do that. But I want you to make a donation to your charity, which is important to me, which is to make sure that children during Christmas have a Christmas present. Because a lot of people, a lot of kids in Northern Ireland didn't have that, right? Instead of paying all those influencers and all those ambassadors, I want you to do one thing I'll do. I'll make a video with it. I'll let you talk and we'll have an open, honest and real conversation and you can prove me wrong. I would love that. I want you to do this. Instead of you paying money to all those influencers, I want you to do one thing for me. One thing. A hundred thousand pounds sterling. And I match that a hundred thousand pounds sterling to a charity that is close to my heart. And they said, well, I don't care. I'd rather give $2 million to 50 Cent for a launch of a watch to basically an influencer party. I'd rather spend $2 million to that than actually making an impact for the next generation. It's an embarrassment of the highest degree. I think that leadership at Hublot is beyond embarrassing. And LVMH needs to have a really good look at themselves because this is where Zenith went in. This is exactly the same group. Zenith is nearly bankrupt or they're going, they're for sale anyway, the brand like they have same as. Obviously a big identity crisis, but we'll not go into detail. But I think it's really embarrassing and I'm dead serious. Like a hundred thousand pounds for a charity or $2 million for 50 cents to perform for some influencers.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Did they flat out say no?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

They literally said flat out no. The CEO in the comments on Instagram said out no. No. Oh. A couple of weeks later, big event with 50 cent for all their influencers. Honestly, everyone that wears a Hublot, I would love to have them have that feeling like, this is what you're doing. Like, I was genuinely wanting to be an Open and make an impact together, right? I was open. I'll listen. We'll listen. I'll listen to you. I'll not be critical. I'll be straight. Let's have an open conversation and make an impact for the next generation of watch people.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

What is the best watch that Hublot makes?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Never none. I am done. I will never say.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

There's not a single one that you think is like a half decent watch.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I think. What is it the big bang? Is it the big bang?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

There's one movement which I find funny, which Hublot also didn't make, was introduced in 2018. It was done together with Dustin Johnson. I think Marco created that. It's a mechanical golf counter, but the thing is super fragile, right? It's a mechanical golf counter. I love that idea of that concept. The guy that produces that actually left Hublot and then started his own brand called Crisscross Studios, which is doing cool stuff, right? Like, keep in mind, these are just brands, these are fronts. There's actually real people that have ambition sometimes behind it and start their own watch brand, which is funny, like, so

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

it doesn't sound like you're very happy with what's going on with the current state of the watch market in general. It seems like there's a lot of hype, a lot of just mass produced pieces and most people are completely disillusioned. The watch that they're getting is actually rare when reality it's. They make hundreds of thousands of them.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, it's not the state of the watch industry that I'm worried about. It's the fact that, like, I mean, maybe that's me getting older, right? Maybe that's me. You remember when your dad or your parents once said back in the day, the music was better. Like, maybe it's one of those. I don't know, maybe it is. But what I see today is just. It worries me, mate, genuinely, it does. I care about this industry and I care about these people. But on the other hand, the mismanagement of these Bigger brands has created a complete different market, which I absolutely love. It's the independent space. We've seen that with MB and F. MB and F. Like, like Max Bisser worked for J. Lecoultre. He worked. I mean, they all go independent, create something and actually make an impact. Like. And that. That's amazing. Like, the mismanagement creates a complete different economy on its own.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

But I want people to just. They really, really like. I would celebrate anyone that wants to learn more about watches, Right. Because mechanical timekeeping devices, tracking something that we haven't defined yet. Brian Cox. Time is not a proven concept. We have all different calendars. They have a different calendar in China than we have here. So time is not a proven concept. We're tracking something that is not a proven concept. But mechanical engineering of a watch is just. It's insane. It's actually incredible. Like, I urge every single person to dive deep and learn some learn about that and the historic importance of how important. Like we wouldn't be able to fly today. Like be on a boat, navigate. Like, that's so important. And I love every bit of that. And then I hope people then. I hope that people then really do their research when they buy a watch. And ideally, in an ideal world, stay away from mainstream. Just go and support watchmakers that actually really care instead of the marketing that's being served.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

People have the goat debate in like the NBA. They say it's like Michael Jordan, LeBron James. They have it in soccer with like Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo. Who is or what is the goat watchmaker?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

They're both British. Right. And they're both reside. Well, one is dead. George Daniels is the goat is the absolute goat. He wasn't even a watchmaker. He was. He was a mechanic. Watchmaking was not to be improved. It was impossible to be improved. And he improved it. Last person to ever improve the watch watch industry, by the way. Watch mechanical. The mechanical aspect of watching. Last person and his apprentice, Roger Smith. Those two, funny enough, what I would say are the goat one is not with us anymore. The other one is working exactly as George Daniels set it out to be.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

And what is the goat watch brand?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, the most important one in the world, which is one third of the entire Swiss watch industry. Rolex. That's hands down. And although the luxury aspect is not the product, it's the journey making you feel like that is. That's the actual product. Right. Like you don't know. But the. The journey is the actual product being able to be considered. Oh, It's a privilege to be considered. And then being able to buy one. Oh, they allow me to buy one. That feeling, what you get from that, that's the actual product, not the actual watch. There's not a watch brand in the world that has ever been able to do that or not. I would say Hermes would be in a different space, but there's not a watch brand in the world that can do that.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

How does Rolex operate as a nonprofit?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

They do not operate as a nonprofit. They are a profitable organization, but they're owned by the Hans Wilsdor Foundation. So Rolex and TUDOR are both profitable organizations. Right. But they're owned by a foundation. It's clever. It's, it's, it's just how to avoid pain. It's. Yeah, it's tax. It's great.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

We should be a non. Prof. We really should.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah. Because you're adding value. Exactly.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Be clever. You can't blame that. You can't.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Like, I mean, don't hate the player. You got the game.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

The largest bank wire in the world is once a year, right? It, I think it goes from, it's, it's Google. I think it goes from like the Bermuda, one of these islands, or from Ireland or something like that, like, to the Bermuda. Like, it's the biggest bank wire ever. It's just once a year. It's just tax. It's just like air licensing. It's amazing how you need to be creative and Rolex is like very creative about.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Because our average viewer demographic is between 18 and 35, let's say for the average man under 40 years old, what would the perfect collection look like?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

How many watches? And what's the bunny?

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Let's just say, I mean, it's no money. Money aside, amount of watches aside, just what would you say they should consider when curating their collection?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Rolex Submariner as a sports watch, for sure, hands down. Or even a Rolex gmt. I think a Rolex GMT is the most functional movement or functional watch out there, and I use that every day for me, if I travel. Rolex gmt.

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[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I would say Submariner is just more because it's iconic but like there, there are days in my life that I'm not on there. Not at like a thousand feet underwater. Like, I mean a Rolex GMT is properly functional because you can read multiple time zones. I think a chronograph is vital. Omega Speedmaster. It's an incredible story with that because that watch was like, it saved lives, that watch. Like and it wasn't even meant to go to space, but it saved lives. The famous 14 seconds. Apollo 11. Or was the Apollo 12. Apollo 11. I think that's really important. I think dress right and if there's no budget and if I can do whatever the hell I want. 6119, I think it's one of the most cleanest dials. Reason why I said 6119 is exactly the same case but I. Yeah, it's exactly the same case to prescribe for

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

an average viewer out there because I would say our average viewer would probably not be, you know, multiple Rolexes or multiple total.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, that's why it's like budget.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Just a practical, A practical, you know,

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Maybe under under $15,000.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Under $15,000 for watches. I think a Speedmaster has to be in that collection. A GMT watch with in this case the Tudor Black Bay Pro would be an incredible watch because it's very, it's very affordable. It's. Well, affordable is a relative term but it's, it's very accessible and you have a GMT function and it has the incredible heritage Speedmaster like I mentioned, because it's so important and it's really, really cool. And as a dress watch I would say this is actually modern. I'm going to say that a pre owned Chopard because Chopard is one of the only big watch brands that makes everything themselves. Every. Everything themselves. Like every aspect of the watch is made by them and I love that. And you can pick them up for like 60% of the retail price. You can buy an unbelievable Chopar like five grand, six grand. I love that, I love that. That as a dress watch.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Does it matter if you buy a watch with box and papers?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

The modern stuff? No, I don't care. Vintage stuff, I don't care. It's not the watch that matters. Modern stuff, like I can't wear a box or papers but like if it's watches bought with a single purpose as an investment, like vintage pieces. Well, amazing. Make sure it does help. But papers do not CERTIFY or verify that a watch is legit. Yes or no? Absolutely not. People say, oh yeah, papers. Yeah, this watch is real because it has papers. Well, if you can replicate a watch, do you not think you can replicate a. A card maybe?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I want you to react to this clip.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

What would you say is your worst investment of all time?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I hate this watch.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What do you not like about.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Because it was a terrible investment.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Could I see it? It represents too.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

How much is that watch, Graham?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

It's got to be 400, 500. But I owned another one, a black one. That was a million dollar watch and it was stolen from me. Do you have insurance on my arm? No, I didn't have insurance. The black one that it showed on the photo are in the video that. That there's never been a million dollars. But that aside, I get it. I get it. Richard Mill has lost a lot. Like it's losing a lot of value. I get it. And again, like I said, Richard Mille blew up in such a short amount of time that it was like at some point. It's ignorant to think that this will always go that way. I get it. I get it. However, it is still a reshot meal. I still a Richard Mille and they have changed the industry a wee bit. Like that was the first and only real hyper watch. If you compared with the automotive industry, like special.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

There's one more clip I want to show you. Walk in rocking this watch and it's massive. Yep. Alex is supposed to guess how much you bought that for. Oh, okay. Alex.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

My guess is that that watch costs approximately $17,500. Alex.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

I'm guessing 85.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

My guess is 35 because you got a deal and you could buy it at msrp. I go to this place called Happy Jeweler and he does a lot of athletes and stuff like that out in California. And he just so happened to get this watch in stock. And I text him for months. I was like, if you ever see this exact watch, let me know. I love black and blue. And he says, I got it in stock. And he's like, I'm actually going to give it to you below cost of what I have it at. He's like, just because I know you're going to make content, it's going to help out and I want to build a relationship with you. You're going to refer me a bunch of clients which I have, you know, now I'm talking about it on this podcast. Right. So I ended up getting it from him for like 42,000. And I was looking at it on ebay the other day and I think it was like worth 60 to 70 now.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

You saw the watch.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

If it was any other jeweler, any. Any other jeweler other than Happy Jewelers, I would say it's Happy Jewelers. They're genuinely like that. They're unbelievable, guys. Like, if it was anyone else, I say below cost off, never. Happy Jewelers, I think, are hands down in the US the best. I think they're amazing. And the brothers, hard workers. I have never seen a shop like it. The vibe is incredible. And if you're ever in California, I would highly recommend.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

You know what's so funny? That clip got millions of views. And when you think they discounted his watch across all the people who. That's free marketing for them. They probably. I'm curious what their ROI was on that clip.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, well, there's maybe a clip coming out of that. But the brothers, genuinely, they're nicest people you'll ever meet. Like, if there's. If it was any other jeweler, any other watch dealer, I would say, yeah, it's a good story, bro. Good luck. You're very.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

That's really good to know. That makes me feel good, man. It gives me hope that there's, you

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

know, Graham can get really cheap stuff.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, exactly. Because he wants to be in the front row for a penny. You see what I mean? That's huge, by the way.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Well, you were talking about how scammy the watch industry is.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

And so going from Happy Jewelers, we got two thumbs up here.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Oh, yeah.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What are some of the tricks that you see throughout the watch industry?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I would want to call out, I would actually argue to say the gray market is the. Is the real market. That's the honest market. Like, retail is a scam, right? It's a scam. Retail price is going up out of a zoo. It is insane. Oh, yeah. Cost of this and that, mate. $200,000 for a Nautilus? Are you out of your mind? This is out of the box retail. Like, I mean, the new Nautilus, what they've introduced, tended to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Nautilus. How much? I'm like, are you out of your mind? It's a normal white gold time only watch. Not even a date. A hundred thousand dollars retail. That's a scam. The real value of a product is actually defined at the gray market. And I would argue to say that that is also the most honest variation, honest version of that.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

But now I watch these YouTube channels where the guy, he constantly talks about the tricks that people pull when they sell a watch. Like they might ship him a watch, he looks at it, says, this is an aftermarket dial. Or this watch was somehow swapped to be this watch. And it's advertised as. How often do you see that?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I see that within our business, not very much because I'm. Luckily in the uk. In the uk, people actually take accountability, but in the us, it's a big scam, mate. If you buy a. If you want trouble and you want to be in the front row seat for a penny, you go to New York, you will get over and I promise you that I'll put money on it. I put money on it and it's actually an embarrassment. I mean, countless times. I mean, genuinely, it happens more than it doesn't. So it's. It is actually sad. But now comes the point, right?

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Have you ever bought a stolen watch?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

No, but I bought a watch that then was later registered stolen. Like, that's funny. Then an insurance trick. That's hilarious.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What's the trick?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, you sell. You buy a watch, you sell the thing, you call your insurance company. I lost my watch. Here's the serial number. I have the watch now, Don, he gets his money paid out. I paid him. So he got paid twice. And I'm sitting there, I want to sell this watch and I was registered stolen. That's bad.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

It seems like that's the easiest thing to get caught in because you have a.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

People don't think. People sometimes not using their own brains. It's hilarious. Do you not think that that will backfire? Yeah, like, it's hilarious. And this is also what you see in New York. New York is quite.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So how often do you see fake watches?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Not very often. You know what, right? When I started with YouTube and TikTok and stuff, right, it was all over the thing. All over, right. I remember the unicorn family. I don't know if you've ever seen. Like, that was mad, mate. I don't know if they still exist, but every other clip about watches was people flexing fake watches. Like, I don't see that anymore on socials.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Are the fakes just getting better?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

No, it's. People are just more cautious with, like, sharing fake stuff. Like, what. What's buffering byproduct of you? Like, I would. I wouldn't. I would love to think. I would love that. But, like, maybe that's a wee bit. My ego is maybe a wee bit too big, but that could potentially be. Well, I would have had an impact. But, like, fake watch busters and baller busters. I see it less and less, and I'm like, actually, that's a good thing.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

But do you think maybe people just get desensitized to it? Like, there's so many people wear fake watches that at this point, this just stops?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Like, I don't see online people flexing fake watches. Not in. I do see sometimes, but not in the rate that I've ever seen.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

What's the worst you've ever called someone out for wearing a fake watch?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Rick Ross. Rick Ross. That was embarrassing.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

But he could afford the real one, so why would it. Why would it matter if he's wearing a fake one?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, can he?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Right? Doesn't he.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I thought he has, like, a $20

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

million house in Florida.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, but, like, you can finance that to the hill. You can't find us a watch of that magnitude. Like, to give you an idea, right, that watch is part of a set of 10 watches. That set was, like, 12 or $14 million. You couldn't get that watch individually. That's how I knew you couldn't get that watch individually.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Could it be aftermarket?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, it was aftermarket. It was fully custom. Okay, Right. It was fully customer. Let me explain to you. You have a watch, right? And it says on the dial AutoMrpk. Right? The bracelet is, however, not made by Audemars Pig. The case is not made by Audemars Piguet. The dial is not made by Audemars pk. Crown is not made by Audemars Pig. But. Oh, it has an AP movement. Is that what's real, or is that watch fake?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I call it a Frankenstein.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Why? Because.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Because the movement itself is ap. Combined with other pieces. I just call out a Frankenstein watch.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I would say Frankenstein watch needs a balance of 50. 50, not 9010. Like to give you an idea, right? And there's another example. If I buy a BMW 5 Series and I make it look like. With the body kit, like an M5, do I have a fake M5? Well, that's the question, right?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I would say, but. But here's the thing. I would say if it has an M5 engine.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah. But it doesn't. Now comes another point, right? A custom. There's a big difference between a watch that's custom and a watch that is, I would consider fake, right? That green watch that Rick Ross has was directly made to replicate this piece unique. That was, at that moment in time, a piece unique directly to replicate that watch. A direct one on one Watch that's custom. That is just a state is not replicating nothing. Because that watch that they just never existed like that in the first place. So that's not to replicate something like that green watch that Rick Ross had was a direct replica of the actual watch that AP made at that time. One off.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Do you think he knew it was fake?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I think he. No, I don't think, looking at the communication at that moment in time, 100%. But he was. His ego was too big.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What do you think about people who wear fake watches? And do you think it's wrong to

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

wear a fake watch? I think it's wrong in every way, shape or form. I think if you're wearing a fake. Listen, I've been on this journey. When I was 16, I wore fake watch because I couldn't afford it. I was so insecure and I wanted to feel, I wanted to be part of something. Like, I wanted to be considered cool. Well, let me tell you, wearing a fake watch doesn't make you cool. Right? Genuinely, it doesn't. I've been part of that. I get it, I understand it. But if you're a bloody adult, if you're 35 years old and you're wearing a fake watch, like, I mean, but

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

what if you genuinely like the watch but you're like, it might not be worth the retail price. I'm gonna buy a fake.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Oh, why would you? Why would you. Why would you support criminal activities like, like, like, like, like copyright infringements? Why would you do that? Like, a lot of people don't understand that the funds are very often used. Well, it goes hand in hand with drug trade. Simple as. Let me be very clear, cartels and drug trades in the environment that some of those watches are being produced, it's shocking. Like, I have been. Well, I've been in China. I've seen some stuff that I wish I never saw, but it's quite, it's quite poor. Like.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

So, so what's your defense of fake watches?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, well, like, why, why would you. I buy a watch for myself. Yeah, right. And can you imagine wearing a fake watch that's fake? And I'm like, I'm a fake, I'm fake. I'm faking. I'm fake. That's all I am. That's all it says.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I'm completely indifferent to it. I think it's one thing if you're trying to do it to impress somebody, but I think if you genuinely like the watch and it's the same thing and you just save the money, I'M pretty indifferent to it.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, everyone has his own opinion, mate. I absolutely respect your opinion, but like, I'm not gonna lie, but like, would you drive in a fake car? Would you do I. I. Would you wear fake clothes?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I wanted a. Would you like, I wanted a replica Countach.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I want a real Countach. And that is motivating me. I would harder. It is a motivation.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I feel so guilty driving the Countach, the real one, because I'd be worried about putting miles on it or someone dinging it. But if you have the replica Countach, I feel like I wouldn't care. I could freely enjoy it. I don't have to worry about like, oh, I didn't put miles on my car.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I make money working. I don't make money with collecting cars and doing that. I want to buy a car because I want to drive that bloody thing.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

See, here's.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

But that's why I make money with other things.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

You've never heard of the dollar to fund ratio? I look at how much fun could I have for this dollar, and if I could get 90% of the fun for 50% of the price, then I do that because.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

And then you. And then it was like, no, because

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

they still get 90.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Can you imagine sitting on a chair there, right? Sitting, chilling, right? You don't have kids yet, so. But sitting there, you have kids, or maybe you ever have, whatever, sitting there chilling and you have a month live and like, I wish I drove that kuntos more. I would. But you.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

But you could say the same thing about anything. Let's say you got to dinner and you could have this incredible experience. It's awesome, but it's a thousand dollars.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Why would you.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Or you could have 90% of the same experience for $100. It's not going to be as crazy, but it's one tenth the price.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, but that's different. Like buying a Countach, working your ass off and being able to afford it and then not driving it.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

But. But you could still do all of those things, be able to afford it, but be like, well, the dollar to fund ratio suggests that I could do this thing instead. You still get the same enjoyment of being able to buy the car, but

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

that's more you thing because the money is a really important subject in your life. I don't care. I don't. I don't care. I've never had money, didn't care, now I have money. I still don't care. Money is not my motivation. I never. Like, of course I am thinking about, okay, I Can't do that. I can't do this. I can't. But, like, money is there to do good. Meaning if I can buy that watch from a business, that or a watchmaker, and it will actually have an impact, or a business, I can actually contribute. I'd rather that because that makes an impact and I can make a difference and I can make a change. I don't care about money. I don't. Never did. I never will. There's never been a motivation. And I hear what you're saying. Yeah, this and 50%. Yeah. Well, I donate money to charities about dogs. I fund in Northern Ireland, the Dog IO sanctuary. For years I've donated that. Do I fucking care? No. Yeah. If I didn't do that, I had more and I could have bought another car. Yeah, fantastic. Or just work, work more efficient. Make more money. Simple. Money needs to for me. And this is the great thing. We're opposites. That's the great thing about watches. We have different tastes. Like, if you. If you can afford a Countach, it's a Kuntas. Bad example. Because the thing is to drive, that's another thing. But if it's like something else, like a 355, like Ferrari that, like. I recently bought a 355, by the way.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Great car.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Unbelievable. Sorry for my language, but now we're talking, right? So absolutely unbelievable car, right? And you could buy that for like $150,000 or you buy like an improved variation of that Evoluto, right? Recently acquired an Evoluto that's coming in a couple of months, right? Or I don't know, is it a year? It's out a wee bit, right? It's like the perfect version of that car. And it's like $800,000. Absolutely insane car. But whenever I bought my first Ferrari, it was the absolute bollocks. Then I bought another supercar and another supercar and I'm super grateful that I can do that, right? Because I never had money in my pocket. I never realized, I never thought it would be even a possibility. But the fact I can do that, super grateful. But then you are surrounding yourself and you're in circles and then you realize, oh, I'm in Dubai, and there's another A12, and there's another A12, and There's eight made. I'm one of the. They're building 14,000 cars. Ferrari. There's nothing unique about that. Same as having a Rolex, man. Any bloke I will see in a. In two miles today, like, there will be people that have a Rolex. Like, I want to buy a car because it. I just want to drive it. I want to enjoy it. And for example, the Evoluto insane car, right? There's only 55 of them, right? It's only 55 of them. Like, that's unique. I won't foresee another one. Do I not drive it because there's only 55 of them? I mean, maybe it loses value. I don't care. I buy that car because I want to drive it. Like, not because I want to keep it in a garage sitting doing nothing.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

It doesn't work like that. Yeah. So you say you're good at picking out fake watches?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I like to think so, yeah.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Okay, we compiled between everyone that works at the iced coffee hour. Watches.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

All right, let's go.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

They're all fake?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

They're all real?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

You don't know.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, let's see.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

First you're going to be doing a look test.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So you're going to be able to see these watches and not feel them yet.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Panagai, Luminor, Marina. Real Rolex. They just. Real Rolex, submariner. Real. Aquanaut 5167. Real, real, real.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Now, would you like to open them?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah. Feels. But the problem with Panagai is their genuine movements are as rubbish as their fake ones. So you're quite close to that. It's a difficult one. This and Pan is not really my gig. But looking at the numbers, number 139 of 600, that is. That makes sense. Case is Case back is titanium watches. Opc. It. It all looks. It all looks like it makes sense. So that's real. It all looks like it makes sense, Right? That. Well, I don't even.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

You could feel it. You could do it.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I don't have. Like. This is fine. That's real. Yeah, it's real. Didn't know you had an aquanaut, man. It. No, don't look at absolute ar. No, it's. It. It feels. It feels. It feels legit. It feels legit. Is unwell. If this is Chinese, I'm actually impressed. I. What I don't like is the clasp. That is actually gives me a wee bit of warning signs. The clasp that makes. That worries me a wee bit. But it's too. It's too right. Yeah, that's right. That's good. Yeah, that's all that's legit. It.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Three of them are real. Three of them are fake.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

This one, if there's a fake one, it's that one. If there's a Fake one. It's this one. Because it's impossible really to see that. Really?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What do you mean it's impossible to see that?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

There's no tells. This is. This case is done perfect race. That is done perfect. I don't have a date on.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

You could by the way, take the watch out. You can screw it. You could do. Yeah. We want to see if this one too.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Like it's really difficult to see that due to the fact I can't open a watch and I don't have much tells. But this must be fake. That one could be. It's hard to see, but I need to open it up. I need to know. I just feel that this one is legit. It just feels right. But this is the most copied watch on the planet. So it could be a trick one. That one is way too smooth. That's done perfectly. So this is legit. So if there's fake ones, it should be.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

No, you didn't know this one.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Well, I have a date here and I'm pretty happy with that. And I like the dial. I like the dial. Screws are rate. I'm pretty happy with that. That's not too. So if it was fake, it would have been those three. That's 100% legit. It's a risky one, Liz. That one is the most copied watch. I like that watch. Rehaul is that. Let me see if the real is right.

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[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

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[Graham (Podcast Host)]

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[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

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[Graham (Podcast Host)]

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[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Six. I like to do it this way. Three on three.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Correct.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

You're correct.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

All right. Thank you.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I'm actually really impressed. Yeah, I thought the Patek would be the dead giveaway. Because of how it sounds. And it's a little thick.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I didn't like the clasp, right?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

No, the clasp is awful. And you can see all the inner markings. And you hear it, listen to the movement.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

No, no, no. If I grab you a real aquanaut, you. It's exactly the same.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

No way.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

It's exactly the same. Could you grab. Oh, here, could you grab that box? You'll hear it's exactly the same. Like, I love the date is so good in this. It's actually scary. Like, that is a tell, right? This is just. This is really. This is impossible to really see this in the out. This is done by a factory called Noob and Wob.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

This is vsf.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Vsf, yes. That's Noob factory. That's the same factory, if you know what I mean. So, like, there's no way of telling that from the outside, really, that one, mate. Like, the panagay movements were so back in the day. So I would say those three real. That's why.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Graham, how much did you pay for this?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

$465.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Should he have bought a real one? Was this worth it?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

No, because now people know you're wearing a fake watch.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I don't care. Oh, that's so much better than mine. Oh, I. Oh, my gosh. This is so smooth.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

These are all real, by the way.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

They're all what?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

They're all real.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

They're all real. Oh, my gosh. This Daytona is in. Can I pull it?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, that was. I bought that watch with every last penny I had.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What did you pay for this?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

€180,000.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What do you think this is worth today?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

450

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

in total. What is the value of all of those watches?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Million maybe.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Is this your personal collection?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah, I only travel with personal watches.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Does this not make you nervous to travel? Like, is this all insured and like.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

It's all insured? Yeah. Yeah. But nobody knows I travel. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Now, in terms of your collection, it's gorgeous. Do you have any watches that you regret selling?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What is that?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

My first luxury watch I had to sell my Speedmaster. Still tried to buy it back. Several watches, several vintage Daytonas I sold. I had to sell watches to fund the business because the business was losing money, some of which I will never be able to buy back. I would argue to say the majority of watches I've sold, I regret. But I've been in a very fortunate situation that the last two years I didn't need to buy. Sell a watch anymore. And that Means I can focus on proper collecting again.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

There was one clip that I didn't show you that I'm going to show

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

you now and that's for extra content as well. Only fans.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

No, no, no. Only fans here.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

The second controversial theory that you've got is that you strongly believe that any Rolex that you buy that's manufactured after 2010 is actually not made in Switzerland. You believe this is an Asian product?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

The major part of the component parts of the watch are all made in the Orient.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Do we have a Pepsi here? A modern Pepsi Boom. Right here I a 2025 Pepsi. What do you think? Is that a $1,500 watch or is that a $22,000 watch?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

It's a $1,500 watch. The reason it's a $1,500 watch is I can go to Hong Kong and buy this same thing. Super clone. You can't tell the difference. That's why it's 1500. 15,000. Because Rolex wants 15,000. Let me tell you after this next

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

year and the truth comes out about,

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

about production in China.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Try to sell this for anything.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Try to sell this more than two grand. Yeah. That's just a viral clip. To have a viral clip. Right. What you see here is a lot of bollocks, right? Yes. There's parts coming out of China that doesn't really work for Rolex. For many other brands it does. But to give you an idea, enable for a watch to be called Swiss made. 50% of the value, not 50% of the components, but 50% of the value of the movement needs to be coming from Switzerland. So that means that, yeah, they can have screws coming from China. And yes, there's nothing wrong with that because some of the Chinese manufacturing is significantly better than what they can produce in Switzerland. So they're making the best product. And what he's saying is wrong. That's not a fifteen hundred dollar watch. Maybe it is. It's a Rolex and it's a legit Rolex and you're not paying for the manufacturing. Like buying a Rolex is not the product. It's like I said, the cycle, right? Being able to be considered, feel special. Oh, maybe I'm getting a watch. Then you get a call. Yes. Oh, I could buy a watch. Oh, now I own the watch, I can wear it. That cycle is the product, not the actual.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I just, I hate that game. That game is.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I hate it too. Yeah, I hate it too. But people want what they cannot have. That's what's called marketing. And that's a lie across. And it's, it's wrong in every way possible. But like, I mean, it's with far. It's, it's with every luxury aspect. That's the true form of luxury. It's the fact you cannot have something and you want it and then you get it. That's luxury. And what he's stating is absolutely wrong.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So one thing I'm curious about, in the Mark Tilbury podcast, he said he googled your net worth and said it came up as 4 million. And you're like, oh no, that's really wrong. South, south of that. And they were all very surprised. I'm curious if you surpassed $4 million.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Now I'm probably the richest guy on the planet. I'm telling you, I have a beautiful family and I have a job I don't call a job. I think that that is the most important thing and that makes me a very wealthy man. And I'm very grateful that I don't know what the price of a carton of milk is. And that is a really good place to be. I don't know what my net worth is. I know I own several companies. We employ a lot of people throughout all our companies and we add a lot of value. And my net worth, I don't know. I can't. I, I have, I have no idea. I don't care. And I want to keep it that way because the motivation is never money. The motivation is impact.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What's your advice for success?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

You can only excel in the things you truly love. So when you have your passion, you can be the best at it. But it is adding value first. Before you are able or allowed to make a penny, make sure you add value first. And then maybe if you work hard enough, you can take value out of it. My, my, my aim is, or my advice is don't ever listen to anyone. Because people have said throughout the years and still they do that every day. You're, you will feel, you'll not do this, you'll not do that. I listen to me and I'm a own best motivation and my kids are the reason so that I do everything. Now that was different back in the day when I wasn't a father. But the key is add value first before you're allowed to take any value. People say, I'm going to start my own business. I'm going to start, I'm going to become an influencer and gain a following. And why would you gain a following? Do you add value to people that follow you? Do you give information that would actually impact their lives? Like, why would people follow you? Why do you think if you put a video out there that people would actually watch? Like, time is our most valuable asset. Why would someone take time out of the day to watch your video? And I am so incredibly grateful that people watch my videos because time is our most valuable asset. And I spent that watching a video of me talking about my favorite subject. I'm a lucky man. That makes me a very wealthy man.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

I've also noticed that you've been getting in shape.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Thank you.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

You look really good.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I appreciate that.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

What was, what was some of the motivation behind that? Was that, was it having a family that kind of sparked things in emotion

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

or if I, there was a big chance that I wouldn't have made it the other side if I didn't change things. My life, myself, my health. We figured out things and I needed to change my lifestyle if I wanted to see my parents and my kids grow up, which is the only motivation. And yeah, that was a big, was a tough pill to swallow. And it's a tough journey, but it's a journey I thoroughly enjoy and it's good to feel, Feel fresh. Feel.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah. I, I, I, I had to do it, otherwise I, it would have maybe ended up differently.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

It's interesting. Our prior editor, Alex, just had a child and he is down, I believe probably now £150 since finding out that his wife was pregnant.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Like, I respect that so much. I know how tough this is. I, I've been there on that. I lost 60, well, about £70. And it's not been easy and I maintain it and it will always be part of my life. Yeah. But my kids are all my reasons and I want to see my kids grown up. And that's the only thing I want to be an example to my son and I want to protect my daughter. So I had to get my act together and I needed a wee bit of luck and we got out of that so in a really good place. And people have no idea, but there was a period that I didn't film for months. We prepared for some stuff and that I needed to go through and we've, we basically filmed for a serious amount of time and then I was off and I was just focused on health and, and, and the stuff I'm dealing with. So it's really cool.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

You're looking great, man.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I appreciate that. Means a lot. Means a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Here we have a tier list of different watch Brands I want you to list them all out. Let's go honest opinion.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Let's go honest opinion. A long answerne S is the best. Yeah a long answerne I am not rating it. I think it is amazing. Well no a long answerna I rate it amazing. Watchmaking part of the Richemont group. It's really unauthentically put in the market and effect last year with only 100 of a rose gold Odysseus I think the watch brand is a watch brand but as a people that work there I would rate them but because of their mentality in the way they want to boost up fake C Audemars Piguet C like and I'm just being very clear. AP is gone. AP is cooked. It's. It is collapsing left, right and center and that is after leaving leaving a Francois Benoit which was the I would say the best leader in the last 10 years. It really represented his network. The Travis Scott was one of the best watches AP has done. It went viral, became mainstream. The impact of AP is gigantic. But the last. I don't remember anything that AP has done the last fucking couple of years, mate. I don't. I don't. So yeah, see I am going to sell my gold ap. I don't want to like I just don't. Brettling how am I rated? How am I rating them?

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Your own criteria.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

My own criteria? Yeah. Brettling is getting there. It's working on their seat here. Seat here. It's getting there. It's going there. Cartier makes an impact Unbelievable called following do things right. It is what it is A tier Casio A tier. It says what it does on the tin. Don't FP Journe I was wrong with FP Jordan and I'm the first one admitted I was wrong.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

How are you wrong?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

I thought it would drop because Francois is quite of a Francois Paul Jordan is quite of a rocket based off a lot of collectors throughout the years by this behavior etc and I thought that it would negatively impact the watch brand. I was wrong. I'm the first one to admit it and I think it's hands down one of the most insane watch brands out there. A tier Grand Seiko great watches, great watches. It's just the people that buy them. It's just absolutely embarrassing. But watch brand great watches beat here. I'm rating grants he go above ap. Just clarify. Yeah it's just. And I want you to. I really want. This is really important. There's not a Rolex owner that is ever worried about Grand Seiko but every Grand Seago owner is saying that Rolex is that their watch is better than Rolex. It is just H Moser cool watches. Streamliners. Cool. I would say I can't. I'd rather do. I rather have a Moser than an apartment. No, same C tier. F tier Hublot iwc. F tier Jacobico. F tier. J Le Colt. B tier Omega. Lovely, lovely cold. C Panerai. F Patek Philippe. A tier Richard Mill. A tier Rolex. S tier. Industry wouldn't be here today without Rolex. Like Rolex has defined something that no other brand has been able to succeed is making the process the luxury aspect rather than the product. It's the biggest marketing tool in the world. It is the biggest brand of them all. They're the king. There's a reason they're the king. Seco. Really good. B Swatch. Really good. I love Swatch. It's so add so much value to the industry. A tier Tissot. Value for money. Hands down. Tissot prx. One of the best watches out there for the money. B tier. Like A Tudor. A tier. Love Tudor. Love the new releases. Vacheron Constantin. C tier Zenith. D tier. I like dust. Good list. Cool. Did it make sense by criteria?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

It did.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Did it make sense?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

It did, yeah.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

We have. We have one more for you. This right here is a specific watch tier list. But these watches exactly as you would what are the best? What are the worst?

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

All right, I'm gonna start with Jacob and Co's F tier. Absolute rubbish Apple watch. I think it made a big impact on the industry. I don't like. It's not my gig. And I also think we're all over connected. By the way, I think people shouldn't wear an Apple watch for daily stuff. If it's for sports, it's fine. I rate that. If for health, it's fine. And I want my mom and dad. I want my mom to have an Apple watch if she falls. Really functional is a watch. It's not really a watch. D But it's created so many wrists, which is really important. AP Royal Oak. One of the most important watch in the industry, mate. Hans down S tier it is. It changed the industry. It saved the industry. Hublot Big Bang. F tier. Richard Mille Army 1103. B tier nowadays. If you asked me that last year, I would say A tier like B A tier today. Casio F91W. Best watch. Value for money. It's from Osama to Obama. It was functional in every way, shape or form. Osama used it to detonate bombs and Obama used it as his main watch. From Osama to Obama, the F91W is the best watch in the world. Bomb the Casio. Really cool. Love that watch. A tier done. Patek Philippe Nautilus. Yes, lovely. I own several of them. Cool. Pretty cool. Still rated below it. Sorry, I can't. This is. This is really like. I'm not. There's not many people that will rate a Royal Oak above an Otolus, but the Royal Oak was before the Nautilus and it was the reason why the Swiss was. Anyway, Elongan Cerna Datograph. Great watch. One of the best chronographs out there. If it's the platinum model. Depends on the materials. Of course. I owned that data graph. My problem with a long and so is the service. It's one of the worst service service in every. In. In the entire industry. They don't care. They will not look after you. So. And I've experienced that several times firsthand. So for me, C tier. Cartier Santos, one of the most important watches in the world. I rate that a B. That's not bad. It's middlebrow. Yeah, you see what I mean? It's not bad. Speedmaster B class. Good. Submariner B perfect. Same, same round. Snowflake. Nice watch, but it's a ground Tico and it's not better than a Rolex, so I'd put that below a Rolex brx. Hands down, one of the best value for money watches out there. Don made a big impact. A tier Tudor. Black Bay. Love it on Jubilee bracelet. A tier. No. Yeah, it Rolex. I would rate a Rolex Submariner above a Tudor, but it just. It's just so positioned so well. So don't get me wrong, it's positioned so well. Like there's several ways to rate this. I rate this my criteria. You know, fuck it, I don't care. It's my watch, my. My rating.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

So after doing that, I want you to review my watch collection. I brought every single watch that I have and it's available for members. So if you sign up as a member on the channel, you'll get the full video on this.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Get Fuck subscribing now. Show some love and support, will you?

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Well, we are going to have you review Graham's entire collection for members only. But also, we'll also end the podcast right here. Thank you guys so much for joining the Iced Coffee Hour. Thank you guys for watching. If you made it to the end,

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

you're a real one. Seriously.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

You're a real one, we would not be here.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah. And if you become a member, he's going to give you one of his watches.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

One of his fake watches. One of his many fake watches.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Yeah.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Thank you for coming on the podcast.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Do it. Stop being a cheap basket. Do you want me to give you money?

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

No, no, no, please.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Actually, don't. Don't give him money. I would hate for you to do that.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

Stop.

[Nico (Watch Industry Expert)]

Stop.

[Graham (Podcast Host)]

Thank you guys so much for watching. Until next time.

[Jack (Podcast Host)]

See it.

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