Why the Pope wants to disarm AI

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Indicator from Planet Money

Episode: Why the Pope wants to disarm AI
Date: July 16, 2026
Hosts: Waylon Wong and Darian Woods
Guest: Janine Giordano Drake (History Professor, Indiana University), Father Enzo Del Brocco (President, Catholic Theological Union)
Theme: How Catholic Popes have historically responded to transformative technologies and economic disruption, and the current Pope’s warning about artificial intelligence.

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Overview

This episode explores the parallel responses of two Catholic Popes—Leo XIII in the late 1800s and the current Pope Leo XIV—to major technological and societal changes. Over a century apart, both have engaged deeply with economic upheavals, from industrialization to the advent of AI, issuing encyclicals that address the moral and social implications for humanity. The show discusses their messages and asks what guidance religious perspectives can offer during the rapid rise of artificial intelligence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Legacy of Papal Encyclicals

• Encyclicals as Papal Declarations
  • Pope Leo XIV’s Magnifica Humanitas (Magnificent Humanity) is compared to historical encyclicals, notably Pope Leo XIII’s Rerum Novarum (“Of New Things”).
  • These letters historically address moral and social issues facing the church and world.
  • “Kind of like album drops of the Catholic world.” — Darian Woods [00:20]

Pope Leo XIII and the Industrial Revolution (Late 1800s)

• Workers and Socialism

  • Rerum Novarum responded to the rise of socialism and labor movements.
  • The Pope was explicitly against radical socialism, especially the abolition of private property:
    • “He says that families deserve the opportunity to own private property because that, that provides a certain sense of dignity.” — Janine Giordano Drake [03:43]
  • However, he agreed that the economic system was deeply unfair and supported workers’ rights to organize:
    • “It does extract value basically from workers and concentrate it in capital . . . The Pope does call on workers to...form unions and making demands for workers on behalf of human dignity.” — Janine Giordano Drake [04:10]

• Influence Beyond the Church

  • Encyclical became integral to union movements, such as the American Federation of Labor.
    • “He knows that such a large number of workers in these factories and mines are Catholics...it's a very pragmatic decision...” — Janine Giordano Drake [04:56]
  • Introduced concepts like the “living wage” to mainstream discourse:
    • “That’s in some ways the most important part and most radical part of this document...” — Janine Giordano Drake [05:29]

Pope Leo XIV and Artificial Intelligence (2026)

• A New Technological Upheaval

  • Drawing on his namesake’s legacy, Pope Leo XIV warns of AI as a disruptive force:
    • “Artificial intelligence needs to be disarmed.” — Pope Leo XIV [01:13]
    • “Today we find ourselves facing a transformation of similar magnitude with perhaps even greater consequences. Artificial intelligence already touches many areas of our lives and affects decisions that shape human coexistence.” — Pope Leo XIV [06:04]

• Concerns for Human Dignity and Job Displacement

  • AI already impacts jobs and the fabric of society, raising questions about the future of work and economic fairness.

• Psychological and Social Concerns

  • Risks of AI creating “the illusion of a real human relationship.”
    • “The danger to people is that they might gradually lose their desire to form actual bonds with other humans.” — Waylon Wong [07:28]
    • “When you anthropomorphize AI...they’re treating you with real feelings, but it’s not.” — Father Enzo Del Brocco [07:54]

• Ethical Use and Data Ownership

  • The encyclical addresses data privacy and the problematic concentration of technological control:
    • “The letter says data should not be treated as something to be sold off or entrusted to a select few.” — Waylon Wong [08:06]

• The Role of the Church

  • Pope Leo XIV acknowledges his limits as a technical expert, but he insists the Church’s role is to remind society of “wisdom concerning the human”—something, he argues, AI cannot offer.
    • “What he and the church bring to the table is wisdom concerning the human, maybe something even the smartest AI can’t replicate.” — Waylon Wong [08:25]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Artificial intelligence needs to be disarmed.” — Pope Leo XIV [01:13]
• “Families deserve the opportunity to own private property because that…provides a certain sense of dignity.” — Janine Giordano Drake [03:43]
• “Workers deserve more than just enough to live on.” — Janine Giordano Drake [05:29]
• “The question here is not so much AI itself, but really, who are we as human beings in this age, and how can we keep ourselves human? And how can this new discovery really serve us as human beings and serve the common good?” — Father Enzo Del Brocco [06:49]
• “The letter says data should not be treated as something to be sold off or entrusted to a select few.” — Waylon Wong [08:06]
• “What he and the church bring to the table is wisdom concerning the human, maybe something even the smartest AI can’t replicate.” — Waylon Wong [08:25]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:06] - Pope Leo XIV’s encyclical, Vatican gathering, and legacy of Pope Leo XIII
• [03:00] - The context and impact of Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical Rerum Novarum
• [04:42] - Influence of the encyclical on US labor unions and the living wage
• [06:04] - Pope Leo XIV on the civilizational stakes of AI
• [06:49] - Father Enzo Del Brocco discusses ethical and existential questions raised by AI
• [07:28] - Risks of AI in social and relational contexts
• [08:06] - Concerns around data ownership and concentration of power
• [08:25] - Pope Leo XIV’s and the Church’s ethical stance on AI regulation

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Conclusion

The episode draws powerful connections between past and present, highlighting how moral and ethical frameworks from religion continue to challenge economic and technological paradigms. Both Popes Leo address technology’s impact on human dignity—from the industrial age to AI—and urge society to safeguard that dignity even as innovation accelerates. The Church, hosts argue, still plays a vital role in these debates, especially as AI begins to shape the very fabric of work, relationships, and control over information.

Transcript

[Janine Giordano Drake]

Npr.

[Waylon Wong]

In May, Pope Leo XIV issued his very first encyclical. Catholic popes have been doing this for hundreds of years. Encyclicals are letters that they write to the Catholic Church, often laying out their thoughts on social and moral issues, kind

[Darian Woods]

of like album drops of the Catholic world. And Pope Leo convened a gathering at the Vatican for the release of his encyclical entitled Magnifica Humanitas. Magnificent Humanity.

[Pope Leo XIV]

Dear brothers and sisters, I want to thank all of you for being here today for your interest, popes get to

[Waylon Wong]

choose their papal names and Pope Leo XIV picked his name to Honor Pope Leo XIII.

[Pope Leo XIV]

135 years ago, my venerable predecessor Leo XIII observed the situation of factory workers, their families uprooted, and new forms of poverty generated by rapid industrial transformation. He understood that the Church could not remain distant.

[Darian Woods]

Pope Leo XIV invoked his predecessor to warn against a different kind of technological upheaval.

[Pope Leo XIV]

Artificial intelligence needs to be disarmed.

[Waylon Wong]

This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Waylon Wong.

[Darian Woods]

And I'm Darian Woods. It's not often that we cover religion on this show, but we are in a moment where the Pope himself is calling for AI to be reined in for the good of humanity. And he's directly addressing tech leaders. In fact, Anthropic Co founder Chris Ola was invited to that event at the Vatican.

[Waylon Wong]

So today on the show we look at two Pope Leos more than a century apart and their takes on the economic and technological disruptions of their days.

[Pope Leo XIV]

Foreign.

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[Waylon Wong]

Starting in the late 1800s an Italian pope named Leo XIII wrote more than 80 encyclicals. Arguably his most famous one was called Rerum Novarum, which translates to of new things.

[Darian Woods]

The new things of that time were socialism and social democratic labor parties. Workers in Europe and the US were interested in joining these movements. That's according to Janine Giordano Drake. She's a history professor at Indiana University who studies both labor and American Christianity.

[Janine Giordano Drake]

The Pope was asked to take a stand on the question, can Christian workers be socialist? Can the Church support a socialist democratic organization?

[Darian Woods]

This is one of the questions the Pope tackled in his encyclical. And his short answer? No.

[Janine Giordano Drake]

He says that families deserve the opportunity to own private property because that, that provides a certain sense of dignity. And he's really concerned about the possibility of, of sort of radical state socialism where there's no more private property.

[Waylon Wong]

So that was a strong warning against a certain kind of socialism. But Janine says the Pope did side with these 19th century socialists on some important points, like the idea that the current economic system was unfair.

[Janine Giordano Drake]

It does extract value basically from workers and concentrate it in capital. And the Pope does call on workers to try to rectify that problem by forming unions and making demands for workers on behalf of human dignity.

[Darian Woods]

Janine says the Pope was concerned about the unequal distribution of wealth. He encouraged workers to form mutual benefit associations. These were groups that offered members certain kinds of life insurance or health insurance.

[Janine Giordano Drake]

And.

[Darian Woods]

And the Pope was also in favor of trade unions.

[Waylon Wong]

Here in the US One of the dominant labor unions at the time was the American Federation of Labor. Its president, Samuel Gompers, was not Catholic. Even so, Janine says he recognized how powerful the Pope's encyclical could be for recruiting workers.

[Janine Giordano Drake]

He knows that such a large number of workers in these factories and mines are Catholics. And so by using that language, it's a very pragmatic decision to try to get workers to agree to join these unions.

[Darian Woods]

The Pope's letter wasn't just an effective recruiting tool. Jeanine says the American Federation of Labour took some of the Pope's ideas and made them explicit priorities. These included better working conditions, protection for women and children, and shorter work weeks.

[Waylon Wong]

Jeanine says the Pope also supported what we today call a living wage.

[Janine Giordano Drake]

That's in some ways the most important part and most radical part of this document is saying that workers deserve more than just enough to live on. It's very exciting to many people that the Pope or the Catholic Church doesn't just want you to get by and doesn't just want you to make, you know, as many profits as possible for the owners of capital. That particularly is the part of Rehearam Navarre that many people hear and get excited about.

[Waylon Wong]

These issues are still relevant for workers today. And there's a significant new challenge. Worker displacement from AI. And this is where the new Pope Leo comes in.

[Pope Leo XIV]

Today we find ourselves facing a transformation of similar magnitude with perhaps even greater consequences. Artificial intelligence already touches many areas of our lives and affects decisions that shape human coexistence.

[Darian Woods]

Pope Leo says he recognizes AI can make things more efficient. I mean, just look at the speed and simplicity of accessing complex information. Other Catholic leaders agree. Father Enzo Del Brocco is a priest in Chicago with degrees in human resources and healthcare ethics. He's currently the president of the Catholic Theological Union, a graduate school of theology and also Pope Leo's alma mater. He says AI is very useful for research.

[Father Enzo Del Brocco]

The question here is not so much AI itself, but really, who are we as human beings in this age, and how can we keep ourselves human? And how can this new discovery really serve us as human beings and serve the common good?

[Waylon Wong]

He can recall some AI experiments in the last couple of years. For example, a Catholic media platform created a priest chatbot called Father Justin. This AI priest gave one news outlet conflicting answers about whether it was authorized to hear a confession.

[Darian Woods]

That checks out. I mean, people look to chatbots for advice in friendship and romance. I guess they also want absolution, too.

[Waylon Wong]

Yeah. And this is kind of what Pope Leo is warning about in his encyclical. He says AI can create the illusion of a real human relationship. And the danger to people is that they might gradually lose their desire to form actual bonds with other humans.

[Father Enzo Del Brocco]

I think the risk of confusion that can happen in some people because AI, you know, the way it relates, we give almost like a person's name, actually, you know.

[Waylon Wong]

Right. We, like, anthropomorphize it.

[Darian Woods]

Right?

[Father Enzo Del Brocco]

Yes. And when you anthropomorphize, AI says, wait, what are we really doing here? Like, you know, the way they're kind at the beginning, and they always are condescending. It's almost like they're treating you with real feelings, but it's not.

[Waylon Wong]

Pope Leo's encyclical addressed concrete economic concerns with AI too, like environmental impacts and who controls and owns the technology. The letter says data should not be treated as something to be sold off or entrusted to a select few.

[Darian Woods]

So does the Pope want to get involved in regulating big tech?

[Waylon Wong]

Well, he acknowledges that he's not a technical expert. He says what he and the church bring to the table is wisdom concerning the human, maybe something even the smartest AI can't replicate.

[Darian Woods]

Reminded the Indicator newsletter comes out tomorrow morning. We bring you the news that we talk about behind the scenes every Friday. This week we're talking about the latest champion of electric vehicle chargers, which is the the fried chicken chain, Bojangles. How did that happen? We have the answer and much more if you haven't already signed up. The link is in our show.

[Waylon Wong]

Notes this episode was produced by Corey Bridges and engineered by Anlee Huang. It was fact checked by Sarah Juarez. Cake and Cannon is our show's editor, and the Indicator is a production of npr.

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