Add to cart: Greenland

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Indicator from Planet Money – "Add to Cart: Greenland"

Release Date: January 21, 2025
Host: NPR's The Indicator from Planet Money
Hosts: Adrian Max and Waylon Wong
Guest: Stephen Press, History Professor at Stanford University
Topic: Donald Trump's proposal to purchase Greenland and the historical context of U.S. sovereignty purchases.

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1. Introduction to Trump's Proposal

The episode opens with Adrian Max introducing a bold political development: Donald Trump has been inaugurated as the 47th President of the United States, and one of his significant proposals includes the acquisition of Greenland, a semi-autonomous territory of Denmark.

• Adrian Max [00:11]: "Donald Trump is now officially the 47th president of the United States. And if Trump gets his way, what we even think of as the United States might come to look very different."

• Waylon Wong [00:30]: Donald Trump stated, “We need Greenland for national security purposes. I've been told that for a long time, long before I even ran” (00:30).

Trump’s rationale centers on national security, stemming from Greenland’s strategic geographic location and its natural resources.

2. Understanding Sovereignty Purchases

Waylon Wong delves into the concept of sovereignty purchases, explaining that the idea of one country buying territory from another is not unprecedented.

• Waylon Wong [01:10]: "Can the US Just buy itself a country? Is that a thing? Turns out when you look at our history, it is absolutely a thing. It's called a sovereignty purchase."

• Adrian Max [01:20]: He outlines that the episode will explore how large land deals have historically shaped the United States and why purchasing Greenland today is more complex.

Stephen Press, a history professor, provides an academic perspective on sovereignty purchases, emphasizing their deep historical roots and the complexities involved.

• Stephen Press [03:34]: "I don't endorse the specific talk about Greenland that has come from President Trump. I do, however, think there's a really deep history here that involves the United States and really a very large portion of the world."

3. Historical Examples of U.S. Sovereignty Purchases

The hosts and Stephen Press explore various historical instances where the United States acquired significant territories through purchases, treaties, and, at times, coercion.

• Adrian Max [04:33]: "If you just kind of quickly add things up, you're talking about an enormous portion of territory, past and present."

• Waylon Wong [04:52]: "Stephen says about 40% of the United States was acquired through sovereignty purchases."

Key Historical Deals Discussed:

• Louisiana Purchase (1803):

  • Adrian Max [05:03]: "In 1803, President Thomas Jefferson persuaded Congress to fund the Louisiana purchase for about $15 million. France sold off a chunk of its empire, this vast territory in the middle of the continent."
  • Stephen Press [05:26]: Highlights the exclusion of indigenous rights in these transactions, noting, “The French gave the US Exclusive authority to take control of the territory from indigenous tribes. Whether they did that through contracts or through force, that's problematic.”

• Gadsden Purchase (1853):

  • Waylon Wong [05:47]: "As part of these agreements, Mexico ceded over half its territory to the US in exchange for $25 million and taking on some back debt."

• Alaska Purchase (1867):

  • Waylon Wong [06:58]: "In the late 1860s, Russia was contemplating selling off the territory of Alaska. For about $7.2 million, the US did just that."

• Other Territories:

  • Waylon Wong [04:46]: "Alaska, Florida, California, and basically the whole middle section of the continental U.S. today because the U.S. bought the rights to that land from some other colonial power."

These acquisitions have significantly shaped the current geographical and political landscape of the United States.

4. The Complexity of Modern Sovereignty Purchases

The discussion shifts to why the U.S. acquiring Greenland today would face substantial challenges compared to historical purchases.

• Adrian Max [08:42]: "Probably not [possible]. At least not how it used to go down."

Key Challenges Highlighted:

• Self-Determination and Consent:

  • Stephen Press [09:05]: "Any arrangement that doesn't really kind of center the potential benefits and consent of the affected people is really flawed, not just practically speaking, but also morally."

• Public Opinion and Perception:

  • Modern international norms emphasize the rights of populations to self-governance, making unilateral purchases morally and ethically questionable.

• Local Sentiments in Greenland:

  • Adrian Max [09:23]: "Greenland has said that the country is not for sale, but it is open to doing business with."

• Denmark's Stance:

  • Even if Denmark were open to selling Greenland, the preference of Greenland’s residents for independence complicates the matter.

5. Modern Equivalents to Sovereignty Purchases

While outright purchases are rare today, Stephen Press notes that similar dynamics persist through different mechanisms.

• Adrian Max [09:42]: "They've sort of lived on in a smaller scale and perhaps by a different name. For example, a lot of countries will pay other countries for the right to install military bases."

• Waylon Wong [09:42]: Suggests that the U.S. might engage in "sovereignty leases" similar to Adrian Max’s description.

This indicates that while traditional sovereignty purchases are less feasible, countries still engage in strategic agreements that echo historical land acquisitions.

6. Conclusion

The episode concludes by reflecting on the evolution of international relations and territorial acquisitions. Adrian Max and Waylon Wong underscore that the historical context of sovereignty purchases provides valuable insights into current geopolitical strategies, but the ethical and practical landscape has fundamentally changed, making large-scale territorial acquisitions like the proposed purchase of Greenland highly improbable today.

• Adrian Max [10:13]: "This episode was produced by Cooper Katz McKim with engineering by Sina Alafredo and Neil Rauch."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Donald Trump [00:30]: “We need Greenland for national security purposes. I've been told that for a long time, long before I even ran.”
  — Highlighting the motivation behind the proposed purchase.

• Stephen Press [03:34]: “I don't endorse the specific talk about Greenland that has come from President Trump. I do, however, think there's a really deep history here that involves the United States and really a very large portion of the world.”
  — Emphasizing the historical context of sovereignty purchases.

• Stephen Press [09:05]: “Any arrangement that doesn't really kind of center the potential benefits and consent of the affected people is really flawed, not just practically speaking, but also morally.”
  — Addressing the ethical implications of territorial acquisitions.

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This episode of The Indicator from Planet Money provides a comprehensive exploration of Donald Trump's proposal to purchase Greenland, situating it within the broader historical framework of U.S. sovereignty purchases. Through expert insights and detailed historical analysis, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the complexities and ethical considerations inherent in such geopolitical moves.

Transcript

[NPR Host]

NPR.

[Adrian Max]

Donald Trump is now officially the 47th president of the United States. And if Trump gets his way, what we even think of as the United States might come to look very different.

[Waylon Wong]

And we're not talking metaphorically, we're talking geographically, topographically, maybe. You caught this statement of his a couple weeks ago.

[Donald Trump]

Well, we need Greenland for national security purposes. I've been told that for a long time, long before I even ran.

[Adrian Max]

Trump has been kicking this idea around for years, which is that the U.S. should take, quote, ownership of Greenland, a partially self governing territory of Denmark.

[Donald Trump]

People really don't even know if Denmark has any legal right to it, but if they do, they should give it up because we need it for national security. That's for the free world.

[Waylon Wong]

So short of using military force or economic coercion, which he has not ruled out, how exactly does Trump imagine the US Taking ownership of Greenland? Well, one thing, he's proposed simply buying it.

[Adrian Max]

To which many observers then said, wait, really? This is the indicator for Planet Money? I'm Adrian Max.

[Waylon Wong]

Hi. And I'm Waylon Wong. Can the US Just buy itself a country? Is that a thing? Turns out when you look at our history, it is absolutely a thing. It's called a sovereignty purchase.

[Adrian Max]

Today on the show how these massive land deals shape the country we live in today and why the idea of the US Buying Greenland is a lot more complicated than it would have been in the past.

[NPR Host]

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[Waylon Wong]

Who didn't immediately Google Greenland after Trump's press conference, Here is a quick primer. It is a great big landmass, bigger than Texas and California combined. Greenland sits way up north in the Atlantic Ocean between Canada and Europe. It's a semi autonomous territory of Denmark with a population around 56,000 people. Now, because of its location and natural resources, the territory has long been eyed with interest by countries like China.

[Adrian Max]

So this goes to why Trump has proposed buying Greenland. And while a lot of people heard his comments and thought, well, that's just bananas, Stephen Press says it's not as bananas as you might think. Stephen's a history professor at Stanford University who studies Europe and international affairs. And to start, he just wanted to make one thing clear.

[Stephen Press]

I don't endorse the specific talk about Greenland that has come from President Trump. I do, however, think there's a really deep history here that involves the United States and really a very large portion of the world.

[Waylon Wong]

He says the idea that one country might buy a territory from another is called a sovereignty purchase, and it's a practice that actually happened all around the world and dates back thousands of years.

[Stephen Press]

So, first thing I'd say is the word sovereignty is notoriously difficult to define, and political leaders won't help you in any way. But sovereignty is something like supremacy in relation to political rights, governmental powers.

[Adrian Max]

If you think of governments as having a basket of rights like the right to conduct military and economic affairs, to impose taxes or laws on people in a particular place, a sovereignty purchase is when one government buys some or all those rights from another government. And this is something the United States has a long history of doing.

[Waylon Wong]

Alaska, Florida, California, and basically the whole middle section of the continental U.S. those are part of the U.S. today because the U.S. bought the rights to that land from some other colonial power.

[Stephen Press]

If you just kind of quickly add things up, you're talking about an enormous portion of territory, past and present.

[Waylon Wong]

Stephen says about 40% of the United States was acquired through sovereignty purchases. This is not to say, though, that these deals don't have some very troubling aspects.

[Adrian Max]

Yeah. For example, in 1803, President Thomas Jefferson persuaded Congress to fund the Louisiana purchase for about $15 million. France sold off a chunk of its empire, this vast territory in the middle of the continent. And specifically in the deal, the French gave the US Exclusive authority to take control of the territory from indigenous tribes. Whether they did that through contracts or.

[Stephen Press]

Through force, that's problematic, but it's a big part of the United States history.

[Adrian Max]

Another problematic aspect to sovereignty purchases, sometimes the key ingredient is coercion.

[Stephen Press]

Some of the purchases made in relation to Mexico, for example, were in the context of ongoing, often armed, disputes over territory.

[Waylon Wong]

Maybe you've heard of the Mexican American war. In the 1840s, the US expanded its borders by annexing Texas. Then it declared war on Mexico. That war ended in 1848 with the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, which was followed a few years later by something called the Gadsden Purchase. As part of these agreements, Mexico ceded over half its territory to the US in exchange for $25 million and taking on some back debt.

[Adrian Max]

And that territory today includes what we call California, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, plus parts of Colorado, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Wyoming.

[Waylon Wong]

And all that for $25 million. I think that's what you call a steal. At least the Mexicans probably did.

[Stephen Press]

It's kind of a weird chapter of international affairs or relations, but sometimes sovereignty purchases are seen as a relatively peaceful alternative to war or the continuation of war.

[Adrian Max]

But you're saying, like, given the context, it's really almost like the Godfather, where it's like an offer they can't refuse.

[Stephen Press]

Yeah, it certainly can be. On the other hand, it isn't always. We know of cases that were, by comparison, free of coercion.

[Waylon Wong]

Here's one example. In the late 1860s, Russia was contemplating selling off the territory of Alaska. The US Secretary of State at the time, William Seward, was like, yeah, we should buy it. It'll be great for commerce. And so for about $7.2 million, the US did just that. And believe it or not, this is when Greenland first appear. The US Shopping wish list.

[Stephen Press]

So Seward's saying, okay, purchase Alaska from Russia. Also look at Denmark, a relatively old imperial power and one that, looking ahead, doesn't really have the means to maintain its presence in far flung places.

[Waylon Wong]

It's like the Amazon recommender that's like, you just bought Alaska. People like you also looked at Greenland.

[Adrian Max]

But on a much, much larger scale.

[Waylon Wong]

William Seward, he's like, scrolling. He's like, I am interested in these recommendations.

[Adrian Max]

Yeah. One of those far flung Danish possessions, if you want to call it that, was Greenland. Although at the time, Congress did not go for this idea. The idea of buying Greenland did come up a few more times under later presidents, under Woodrow Wilson and FDR and Harry Truman. And obviously this deal never came to fruition.

[Waylon Wong]

So by now you are probably getting the picture. The idea of sovereignty purchases did not start with Trump. These are deals with problematic aspects that gave the US some big economic advantages and are a big reason why the US looks the way it does today. But is it possible for the US to just buy a huge swath of territory like Greenland today?

[Adrian Max]

Yeah, probably not. At least not how it used to go down. And there are multiple reasons for that. For one thing, in the past, these deals happened without any real input from the people living in the places that got bought. And Stephen says in today's international order, the right of self determination, consent of the govern, these things carry a lot more weight than they used to.

[Stephen Press]

Any arrangement that doesn't really kind of center the potential benefits and consent of the affected people is really flawed, not just practically speaking, but also morally. It's really hard to justify this in terms of public opinion and public perception.

[Waylon Wong]

And even if Denmark would entertain the idea of selling Greenland, which it's not, there are currently about 56,000 people living there, and many of those folks want Greenland to declare complete independence from Denmark, Greece. Greenland, for its part, has said that the country is not for sale, but it is open to doing business with.

[Adrian Max]

The U.S. stephen says while sovereignty purchases for big swaths of territory don't happen as often as they used to, they've sort of lived on in a smaller scale and perhaps by a different name. For example, a lot of countries will pay other countries for the right to install military bases. The US has these all over the world. And you might not quite call that a sovereignty purchase. Maybe something more like a sovereignty lease.

[Waylon Wong]

What about like a sovereignty buy now, pay later?

[Adrian Max]

I think you might have just come up with a new business idea.

[Waylon Wong]

I'm gonna pitch a VC right now.

[Adrian Max]

This episode was produced by Cooper Katz McKim with engineering by Sina Alafredo and Neil Rauch. It was fact checked by Sierra Juarez. Paddy Hirsch edited this episode. Cait Concannon is our editor and the indicators of production of npr.

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