Are China and India BFFs now?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Are China and India BFFs now?"

The Indicator from Planet Money | NPR
Air Date: October 30, 2025
Hosts: Adrian Ma, Darian Woods
Expert Guests: Yun Sun (Stimson Center), Milan Vaishnav (Carnegie Endowment)

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Overview

This episode of The Indicator explores the complex and shifting relationship between India and China—from violent border clashes to tentative signs of thawing. With the U.S. ramping up tariffs on both countries, the episode asks whether American trade pressure is pushing India and China together, and if these two giants might become unlikely economic "friends." Through expert analysis, the hosts unpack whether recent detente represents a true alliance or a temporary arrangement shaped by global politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Backdrop: Border Clashes and Economic Retaliation

• [00:13 - 01:17]
  • In June 2020, Indian and Chinese soldiers clashed violently in the Himalayan Golwan Valley, resulting in at least 20 Indian fatalities and 4 Chinese, despite a longstanding no-shooting agreement.
  • After the skirmishes, India banned major Chinese apps (like TikTok), and both sides disrupted trade and flights.
  • Despite this, in the summer of 2025, India’s Prime Minister Modi was seen smiling alongside China's President Xi Jinping at an event.
• Global context: The U.S. is simultaneously pressuring both nations with high tariffs and tough trade policies.

2. Why Would China and India Work Together?

• [03:46 - 04:40]
  • Both countries are economic powerhouses: China as the “factory of the world” and India with the planet’s largest population and rapid economic growth.
  • Yun Sun: As China’s population ages and manufacturing shifts away from labor intensiveness, China could invest in India, helping India grow its own manufacturing sector.
    • Quote: “China could treat India as the destination for China to shift out some of its previous industries...” (Adrian Ma quoting Yun Sun, [04:38])
  • Potential for a powerful economic bloc and greater global influence if they aligned.

3. Recent Warming Signals

• [04:53 - 05:47]
  • Flights between India and China resumed after a five-year suspension.
  • Milan Vaishnav's three reasons for thawing relations:
    1. U.S. Trade Pressure:
       • India faces a 50% tariff on exports to the U.S. (25% standard, 25% penalty for Russian oil imports).
       • China is also in a trade standoff, so both seek other alliances to hedge risks.
         • Quote: “So both of these countries now are looking for ways of hedging.” (Milan Vaishnav, [05:46])
    2. India’s Economic Slowdown:
       • India looks to China, its largest trading partner, for economic support and recovery.
    3. Easing Border Tensions:
       • Quiet de-escalation and troop withdrawals at the Line of Actual Control set the stage for renewed dialogue.

4. Longstanding Disputes & Distrust

• [06:40 - 08:36]
  • The border dispute remains a historic sticking point:
    • West (Golwan Valley, site of 2020 clash)
    • East (Tawang, in Indian-controlled Arunachal Pradesh; birthplace of the 6th Dalai Lama, complicating claims to Tibet and, in Chinese eyes, legitimacy over Tibetan territory)
      • Quote: “If they give up Tawang, it will become a question as for whether China's claim of Tibet is legitimate...” (Yun Sun, [07:24])
  • Deep mistrust rooted in the 1962 Sino-Indian War and subsequent half-century of frosty relations.
  • Milan Vaishnav: 2020's violence dropped Indian public opinion of China to a “low point in more than a half century.”
    • Quote: “We have a neighbor that is bigger and stronger than us and is essentially acting like a bully...” (Milan Vaishnav, [08:11])
  • Economic and strategic dimensions are tightly intertwined in Indian policymaking.

5. Is the Friendship Real or Temporary?

• [08:41 - End]
  • Milan Vaishnav: Doubts about a true alliance—sees current collaboration as a “marriage of convenience” amidst global shifts.
    • Quote: “I think what we're seeing right now is a kind of temporary marriage of convenience...” (Milan Vaishnav, [08:46])
  • Yun Sun: History shows such thaws are often fleeting.
    • Quote: “We've been here before, but during the last round it did not last very long.” (Yun Sun via Adrian Ma, [09:12])
  • The episode closes with the observation: Thawing doesn’t guarantee lasting change; tension could easily resurface.
    • Quote: “The ice is thawing, but winter might come again.” (Darian Woods, [09:21])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If they were able to let bygones be bygones and work together, I mean, this is just an extremely powerful economic block.”
  – Milan Vaishnav, [03:57]
• “We have a neighbor that is bigger and stronger than us and is essentially acting like a bully...”
  – Milan Vaishnav, [08:11]
• “What we're seeing right now is a kind of temporary marriage of convenience.”
  – Milan Vaishnav, [08:46]
• “The ice is thawing, but winter might come again.”
  – Darian Woods, [09:21]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:13] Border skirmish introduction and fallout
• [03:27] Introduction of expert guests
• [03:57] Possibilities of India-China alliance
• [04:53] Detailing rapprochement and reasons for warming
• [06:40] Background and depth of border disputes
• [08:41] Assessment: Can China and India really be friends?
• [09:21] Closing metaphor on thawing relations

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Conclusion

The episode underscores that while economic, political, and security pressures are nudging India and China closer, deep historical grievances and strategic distrust make a lasting friendship unlikely. The hosts and experts agree that today’s cooperation is driven less by true camaraderie and more by necessity in a shifting global order—meaning this detente may prove fleeting.

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Transcript

[Adrian Ma]

NPR.

[Darian Woods]

June 2020. Dozens of Indian soldiers in winter jackets wade through a murky river holding guns, poles and riot shields. They're in the depths of the Golwan Valley in the Himalayas on a disputed border between India and China.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Once the soldiers reach the other side of the river, there's some pushing and shoving with members of the Chinese army.

[Darian Woods]

Not a single shot is fired. There is a long standing agreement not to shoot along the border, but at least 20 Indian soldiers are killed.

[Narrator/Reporter]

A senior Indian military official told the BBC that Chinese soldiers used iron rods studded with nails to beat Indian soldiers. And basically Beijing said that four from its side were killed that day. Around this time, other skirmishes at the India China border flare up.

[Darian Woods]

In response, the Indian government banned several Chinese apps, including TikTok. China blocked Indian news websites. Chinese imports into India were heavily scrutinized. Flights between the two countries stayed suspended for years.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And despite all this, this summer India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi was snapped, grinning at an event in China, chatting with Chinese President Xi Jinping. This is right as the Trump administration plays hardball in trade talks with both countries. So this raises one big question, which is are the U.S. s steep tariffs pushing India and China together? This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Adrian Ma.

[Darian Woods]

And I'm Darian Woods. Today on the show can India and China be Friends? We look at what could happen if two of the world's largest countries started collaborating more.

[Capital One/Square Advertiser]

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[Darian Woods]

China is the world's second largest economy. It's the factory of the world. And it makes not all, but basically all of the world's refined rare earth minerals. Beijing made the world very aware of that recently when it put restrictions on their export.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And India has the world's biggest population and a rapidly growing economy over the last few decades. It's a democracy that has a lot of economic potential if it were to follow in China's industrialization footsteps. And right now, the US Is trying to bend both of these countries to its will. And so if we have learned anything from Survivor, it's that alliances matter and the relationship between China and India is of intense interest to the US So.

[Darian Woods]

We called up a China expert and an India expert. Both have a lot on right now.

[Adrian Ma]

I'm so sorry. So sorry. I got a little delay.

[Darian Woods]

I'm sorry about that, Darien.

[Milan Vaishnav]

I was just finishing a call.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah, there's no lack of people wanting to know what is happening with these two countries. Yunsoon is director of the China program at a think tank called the Stimson Center.

[Yun Sun]

And.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And Milan Vaishnav is director of the South Asia Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

[Darian Woods]

We asked Milan what would happen if China and India were to become allies.

[Milan Vaishnav]

You have to start out with population, right? I mean, this is essentially one third of humanity that we're talking about, that if they were able to let bygones be bygones and work together, I mean, this is just an extremely powerful economic block.

[Narrator/Reporter]

That could mean having more of a say in how international rules are set, or it could mean joining forces militarily. In our China expert, Yun soon says that more collaboration could help both countries economically. China is aging. And Yun says as China moves away from labor intensive manufacturing, Chinese businesses could invest in new factories in India, share know how, and build up a thriving manufacturing sector there.

[Adrian Ma]

China could treat India as the destination for China to shift out some of its previous industries or components of the supply chain that is no longer competitive.

[Darian Woods]

And in recent months, there does seem to be some signs of warmer relations. Not just the cheery photos of Xi Jinping and Narendra Modi, but real changes like flights have resumed between the two countries for the first time in five years. Our India expert, Milan Vaishnav says there's three main reasons for this. First up, American trade policy pressure.

[Milan Vaishnav]

India has been slapped with a 50% tariff, so a 25% tariff on exports and then an additional 25%, ostensibly because India remains a prime importer of Russian oil. And so at 50%, they are at a huge strategic disadvantage relative to many of their other competitors. Right. So I think China, of course, is also in a, in a pretty serious trade standoff with the United States. So both of these countries now are looking for ways of hedging.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Second, India's economy has cooled recently. So Milan thinks that the Modi government's rationale here is that, look, China is India's biggest trading partner, so let's do business and try to get out of the slump.

[Darian Woods]

And the third factor, easing China and Indians relations, relates to that conflict at the start of the show. And it's the reason Millen thinks is actually the most important.

[Milan Vaishnav]

There has been a noticeable easing of tensions in recent months on this disputed border, what we call the line of actual control, because both sides have quietly pulled troops back from the brink at several friction points, and there's been a kind of renewed effort to try and diffuse tension. So I think that really was the green light that policymakers were looking for to say, okay, let's start to talk about other things.

[Darian Woods]

Yun sun, our China expert, says this border dispute has always been the sticking point between China and India.

[Adrian Ma]

India become independent in 1947. China became independent in 1949. These two countries, from day one, has had a significant portion of their territory in dispute between them.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The two major sections where there's the most controversy is in the west, where the clash in the Gol one Valley happened, and also in the east, at the top of an Indian state, where there's a region called Tawang, which is controlled by India.

[Darian Woods]

And a key fact about Tawang is that it's where the sixth Dalai Lama was born in the 17th century, which Yunsun says is one big reason why Beijing hasn't said that India has a legitimate claim to Taiwan.

[Adrian Ma]

So I think for China, if they give up Taiwan, it will become a question as for whether China's claim of Tibet is legitimate, if Dalai Lama historically was born in what is actually Indian territory.

[Capital One/Square Advertiser]

Right.

[Darian Woods]

And these disputes became so hot that China and India even went to war for a month in 1962 with thousands of casualties, basically.

[Adrian Ma]

Since then, I would say the China India relationship had never really been on a collaborative or a friendly footing.

[Narrator/Reporter]

That said, after the mid-1970s, there had not been any combat deaths between the two countries until that chaotic Day in June 2020. Milan Vaiv says this incident put Indian opinions of China to its lowest point in more than a half century.

[Milan Vaishnav]

There was just this real sense that we have a neighbor that is bigger and stronger than us and is essentially acting like a bully to try to get us to submit. And this is the time when we can't say, okay, we have a strategic dispute, but let's do business together. No. In fact, we have to treat both the economic and strategic as two sides of the same coin.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Hence the travel suspension and the chill of Chinese investment into India.

[Darian Woods]

So overall assessment. Can China and India be friends?

[Milan Vaishnav]

I don't think so. I think what we're seeing right now is a kind of temporary marriage of convenience. I think both are responding to shifting global pressures, a change in their own bilateral relations, but I don't think they're on the precipice of somehow discovering for the first time some kind of mutual bonhomie.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yun soon agrees there have been other similar times of warming relations between the two states.

[Adrian Ma]

After all, I would say that we've been here before, but during the last round it did not last very long.

[Darian Woods]

In other words, the ice is thawing, but winter might come again. This episode was produced by Cooper Katz McKim with engineering by Cole Takasugi Chernovin. It was fact checked by Sarah Juarez and Cake and Cannon edits the show and the indicator is a production of npr.

[Yun Sun]

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