Chicken meat, Gulf of Mexico lawsuit and Social Security beyond the grave

Summary

The Indicator from Planet Money Episode: Chicken Meat, Gulf of Mexico Lawsuit and Social Security Beyond the Grave Release Date: February 21, 2025

Hosted by Darren Woods, with contributions from Erica Barris and Mary Childs

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I. Introduction

In this episode of The Indicator from Planet Money, host Darren Woods, joined by Planet Money colleagues Erica Barris and Mary Childs, delves into three pressing economic and policy issues: the surprisingly stable price of chicken meat amidst soaring egg prices, a contentious dispute over renaming the Gulf of Mexico, and alarming reports regarding Social Security payments to deceased individuals. The trio unpacks the complexities behind these topics, providing listeners with insightful analysis and expert commentary.

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II. Chicken Prices and the Impact of Bird Flu

Stable Chicken Prices Amid Bird Flu Outbreak

Darren opens the discussion by highlighting a stark contrast in the poultry market: while egg prices in the U.S. have nearly doubled, the price of chicken meat has only risen by 1% over the past year (01:56). Erica succinctly summarizes, “So chicken is basically flat in price” (02:09), setting the stage for a deeper exploration into this anomaly.

Distinguishing Broiler Chickens from Egg Layers

Mary and Darren clarify that the discrepancy stems from the fundamental differences between broiler chickens (raised for meat) and layer chickens (raised for eggs). Darren explains, “chickens that we eat are broiler chickens and chickens that lay eggs are called layers” (02:40). This distinction is crucial because broiler chickens have a much shorter lifespan—typically slaughtered between four to six weeks—whereas layer hens take over four months to begin egg production.

Farming Practices and Disease Impact

The conversation delves into why bird flu has disproportionately affected egg production. Mary notes, “egg farms tend to be a lot bigger than chicken farms” (03:13), meaning that when bird flu strikes an egg farm, the culling of chickens is far more extensive, significantly reducing egg supply and driving prices up. Conversely, broiler farms, being smaller and located away from major bird migration pathways, have been less impacted, maintaining stable chicken supplies and prices.

Geographical Factors and Disease Spread

Erica and Mary discuss the role of geographical locations, or “flyways,” in disease prevalence. Darren points out, “broiler farms happen to be less concentrated on the two flyways where bird flu is most prevalent” (04:06). This strategic placement further shields the chicken meat supply from the ravages of bird flu, ensuring price stability despite the challenges faced by egg producers.

Humorous Interlude on Vegetarianism

The hosts inject humor into the discussion, with Mary quipping, “Darian has added two more to the count of vegetarians in this world” (04:35), and Erica responding with, “I think I'm becoming a vegetarian again” (03:44), lightening the mood amid the serious economic analysis.

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III. Gulf of Mexico Renaming Dispute

Mexico’s Proposal to Rename the Gulf of Mexico

Transitioning to international waters, Mary introduces the second topic: Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum’s proposal to rename the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America within a 12 nautical mile zone (05:13). She explains, “Mexico's president says you can rename 12 nautical miles the Gulf of America, but not the entire kind of thing we think about” (05:22), highlighting the limited scope of the name change.

Corporate and Technological Responses

Darren and Mary discuss the swift adaptation by major corporations and technology firms. Mary notes that oil companies like Chevron, Shell, and BP have “adjusted pretty quickly to follow the administration's guidelines” (05:45), ensuring consistency across federal agencies. Technology giants such as Google, Apple, and Microsoft have updated their mapping services accordingly, with Google Maps reflecting both “Gulf of America” for U.S. users and “Gulf of Mexico” for Mexican and international users (06:27).

Legal Implications and International Relations

Mary references NPR correspondent Manuela Lopez Restrepo’s reporting, explaining that President Sheinbaum cited a UN convention limiting territorial sovereignty to 12 nautical miles from the coastline (06:39). Sheinbaum expressed dissatisfaction with Google’s partial compliance, stating, “we will proceed to court” if the company does not fully adhere to the renaming request (07:14). The hosts ponder the legal intricacies, questioning the nature of the potential lawsuit and its broader implications.

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IV. Social Security and Deceased Beneficiaries

Alarming Claims of Social Security Payments to the Dead

Erica introduces the final topic: President Trump’s assertion that “tens of millions” of deceased individuals over the age of 100 are erroneously receiving Social Security benefits (08:01). Darren echoes skepticism, noting variations in reported numbers, such as 200 or 300 million (08:18).

Administrative Oversights and System Limitations

Erica clarifies that the Social Security Administration (SSA) relies on outdated software incapable of accurately flagging deceased beneficiaries, particularly those born in or before 1920 (08:18). “The agency has not set up a system to properly mark death information in its database,” she explains (08:21), emphasizing that these individuals are unlikely to be receiving benefits legitimately.

Financial Implications and Policy Choices

Darren probes why the SSA hasn't updated its system, to which Erica responds that the fix would cost nearly $10 million (09:38). The episode reveals that the SSA aims to address overpayments, which totaled $72 billion over seven years, recovering most but still falling short by a few billion dollars (09:34). This financial strain appears to have influenced the administration’s decision to delay system upgrades, prioritizing cost savings over immediate resolution.

Social and Political Ramifications

The conversation underscores the broader implications of administrative negligence, highlighting how outdated systems can lead to misinformation and policy missteps. The hosts critique the Trump administration’s handling of the issue, suggesting a lack of accountability and foresight in managing critical social welfare programs.

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V. Conclusion

In this comprehensive episode, The Indicator from Planet Money unpacks the nuanced economic and policy challenges surrounding poultry pricing, international territorial naming disputes, and the integrity of Social Security administration. Through expert analysis and engaging dialogue, Darren, Erica, and Mary provide listeners with a clear understanding of these complex issues, illustrating the intricate interplay between economics, governance, and technology.

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Notable Quotes

• Darren Woods [01:56]: “The week, my indicator is 1%, which is how much the price of chicken meat has risen over the last year. That is in large contrast to egg prices that have nearly doubled in the U.S.”

• Mary Childs [05:13]: “My indicator of the week is 12, as in nautical miles, because that is the area that Mexico's president says is perfectly fine, being renamed the Gulf of America, per US President Donald Trump's wishes.”

• Erica Barris [08:18]: “So this week President Trump made this claim. He was at a press briefing and his advisor Elon Musk, he posted on X. Maybe Twilight is real and there are a lot of vampires collecting Social Security followed by a couple emojis.”

• Mary Childs [07:08]: “Claudia Sheinbaum wrote a letter to Google taking issue with renaming. She pointed to a UN convention. These are written agreements between countries and the UN which says that a country's territorial sovereignty only extends 12 nautical miles from its coastline.”

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Production Credits

This episode was produced by Corey Bridges with engineering by Neil Rauch. Fact-checking was handled by Julia Ritchie, and Cake and Cannon edited the show. The production of The Indicator from Planet Money is a part of NPR's ongoing commitment to delivering insightful and engaging content.

Transcript

[Erica Barris]

Npr.

[Darren Woods]

This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Darren woods and you're listening to Indicators of the Week. Today we're joined by two of our colleagues from Planet Money, Erica Barris, so.

[Erica Barris]

Happy to be here.

[Darren Woods]

And Mary Childs.

[Mary Childs]

What's up, what's up?

[Darren Woods]

Today on the show, we're going to recap this week's top indicators, from hypothetical lawsuits over the Gulf of Mexico, America to why the price of chicken hasn't gone up, to whether tens of millions of dead people are indeed collecting Social Security checks.

[Mary Childs]

We'll have all that after the break.

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[Darren Woods]

The week, my indicator is 1%, which is how much the price of chicken meat has risen over the last year. That is in large contrast to egg prices that have nearly doubled in the U.S. huh.

[Erica Barris]

So chicken is basically flat in price.

[Darren Woods]

Yeah. And this had some listeners to the show asking some questions after we published our story this week on egg prices. So you might recall that the big villain driving up egg prices is bird flu. So it's kind of this puzzle why bird flu hasn't also affected the price of chicken.

[Mary Childs]

Yeah, those things kind of go together as I understand it.

[Darren Woods]

Or do they? So first, some farming basics. The chicken people buy in the supermarket is not from the same breeds that lay eggs.

[Erica Barris]

Okay. So chickens that we eat are broiler chickens and chickens that lay eggs are called layers.

[Darren Woods]

Yes. Also, the farming is completely different, which is reason number one, that bird flu so far has not affected the price of chicken, namely that commercial broiler chickens are Typically slaughtered between four to six weeks old. Egg layers, on the other hand, need more than four months before they can even lay their first egg. So when bird flu hits the country, it takes much longer for the national egg laying stock of hens to be replenished.

[Mary Childs]

Wow. I hate this. The chicken that we eat, they don't even have a chance to get sick.

[Darren Woods]

Yes. And reason number two is that egg farms tend to be a lot bigger than chicken farms. So we're talking about one and a half million hens in the average egg farm that had bird flu, as opposed to a tenth of that for the average chicken farm. So when bird flu hits an egg farm, it's a lot more chickens that need to be culled.

[Erica Barris]

I think I'm becoming a vegetarian again. I don't think I can handle this.

[Mary Childs]

Yeah, seriously. This is propaganda, Erica, and we're very susceptible.

[Erica Barris]

I know.

[Darren Woods]

So the propaganda is the truth. I'm sorry to say that I'm literally saying nothing but how the farming works.

[Mary Childs]

I hate it.

[Darren Woods]

And reason number three, why chicken prices have remained stable is their locations. There are four big flyaways for wild birds in the U.S. oh, this is.

[Mary Childs]

Basically the highways in the sky for bird migration.

[Darren Woods]

Absolutely. These flyways put farms along them at greater risk of disease from wild birds. And the broiler farms happen to be less concentrated on the two flyways where bird flu is most prevalent. So at the moment, that's meaning less bird flu, plentiful chicken supply, and pretty stable chicken prices.

[Mary Childs]

Wait, so are you saying that the broiler farms are in. Not flyover country.

[Erica Barris]

They are in flyover country.

[Darren Woods]

We are redefining flyover country on this very podcast.

[Erica Barris]

So broiler chickens get to just keep living their short lives, keep getting murdered. In flyover country, the coastal chickens are now all being killed en masse by either bird flu or by their owners.

[Mary Childs]

And Darian has added two more to the count of vegetarians in this world. So, anyway, speaking of coasts, my indicator of the week is 12, as in nautical miles, because that is the area that Mexico's president says is perfectly fine, being renamed the Gulf of America, per US President Donald Trump's wishes.

[Darren Woods]

So if I'm getting this right, Mexico's president says you can rename 12 nautical miles the Gulf of America, but not the entire kind of thing we think about.

[Mary Childs]

That's right. And so that's only 13.8 regular miles. And they are different miles and nautical miles because the Earth's arc becomes a factor in accurate measurement.

[Darren Woods]

Now, this is the indicator we Needed.

[Mary Childs]

Yeah, I know, right? Isn't it so fun? We actually just learned a whole lot about nautical miles and other oceanic conventions because Eric and I just did a whole episode of Planet Money about a dispute over sunken treasure.

[Darren Woods]

Yes.

[Mary Childs]

A whole different world down there. And there has been a sort of interesting corporate response to this name change, which is that they've been pretty cooperative. Oil companies, including Chevron, Shell, and bp, adjusted pretty quickly to follow the administration's guidelines. They have to coordinate with a whole bunch of different federal agencies on a very regular basis, like the Bureau of Safety and Environmental Enforcement and the EPA and the Coast Guard. So it makes sense to all using the same language just for consistency and ease of doing business. So they all switched, and so have US Companies that provide maps like Google. And also, you may have forgotten, Apple and Microsoft, they too have map products.

[Darren Woods]

I never knew that Microsoft did.

[Mary Childs]

I know. It's Bing. It's Bing Maps. You ever heard of that?

[Erica Barris]

Oh, never heard of it.

[Mary Childs]

I know. So that is the context. Google updated Google Maps so that US Users see Gulf of America and users in Mexico still see Gulf of Mexico, and international users get to see both.

[Erica Barris]

That is so, so chaotic.

[Mary Childs]

Isn't that confusing? So according to reporting by our colleague at npr, Manuela Lopez Restrepo, this week, Mexico's president, Claudia Sheinbaum, wrote a letter to Google taking issue with renaming. She pointed to a UN convention. These are written agreements between countries and the UN which says that a country's territorial sovereignty only extends 12 nautical miles from its coastline. So she said any name change only applies to up to 12 nautical miles, not the rest.

[Darren Woods]

Take that.

[Mary Childs]

I know. I just find that so charming. It's like, yeah, you can have your 12 nautical miles.

[Darren Woods]

For some reason. I don't know if the US President is reading up on nautical law at this stage, but I'm willing to be corrected.

[Mary Childs]

So Scheinbaum says that Google wrote back saying they were going to comply with the change, but that they could come meet with Mexico's government to talk about it. And then in a press conference this past Monday, Sheinbaum said she was waiting for a new response from Google, but if not, she said, quote, we will proceed to court to do what? I know, right? It's a really good question because it's all very vague, like, would this be a civil suit? In what court? Like, who knows? But I guess if the name change itself is just semantics or rhetoric, she's meeting it in kind.

[Darren Woods]

So from squabbles over naming maps to Social Security, take us away.

[Erica Barris]

Erica that's right. Okay, so my indicator is the number tension of millions. And that ballpark number is how many dead people over the age of 100 the Trump administration claimed were receiving Social Security checks.

[Darren Woods]

I saw 200 there and 300 as well.

[Erica Barris]

Let's just say that those numbers sound a little off. Social Security didn't even exist that long ago. So even if you were 100 years old in the 1930s when Social Security started, this still does not actually make sense.

[Darren Woods]

Yeah, they weren't contributing.

[Erica Barris]

They were not contributing. That's right. They haven't earned their credits yet.

[Mary Childs]

So how did they come to this tens of millions number? How did this start?

[Erica Barris]

So this week President Trump made this claim. He was at a press briefing and his advisor Elon Musk, he posted on X. Maybe Twilight is real and there are a lot of vampires collecting Social Security followed by a couple emojis.

[Mary Childs]

So. Okay, but what is actually going on?

[Erica Barris]

The confusion stems from this like very old school software that the Social Security Administration uses. And the thing that's most important is that the agency has not set up a system to properly mark death information in its database. And that includes for nearly 19 million Social Security numbers of the people that were born in or before 1920. So this doesn't mean that those people are actually getting benefits. And even if they somehow had been, once you actually hit the age of 115, the agency automatically stops payments.

[Darren Woods]

So why haven't they just updated the software or the database?

[Erica Barris]

Yeah, so that would seem like the easiest fix, but apparently that would cost up to nearly $10 million. So the administration made this choice to not actually do that. And I should mention this all started cause they are trying to like root out like unnecessary waste. And the Social Security Administration did send out a press release last year and they said that over seven years it had overpaid recipients, $72 billion. Now it did get most of that back, but it's still a few billion short.

[Darren Woods]

Ok. From maps to chicken to Social Security, not from beyond the grave. Thanks so much for joining Indicators of the Week.

[Mary Childs]

Thank you for having us.

[Erica Barris]

Yeah, this was a blast.

[Darren Woods]

This episode of the Indicator was produced by Corey Bridges with engineering by Neil Rauch. It was fact checked by Julia Ritchie. Cake and Cannon edits the show and the indicators of production of npr.

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