Cobalt-free batteries reign in Chinese EVs. Why not the US?

Summary

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Podcast Summary

The Indicator from Planet Money

Episode: Cobalt-free batteries reign in Chinese EVs. Why not the US?
Date: August 20, 2025
Hosts: Darian Woods, Wayland Wong
Featured Guests: Henry Sanderson (Author), Mujeeb Ijaz (ONE), Charles Poon (Ford)

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Overview

This episode explores the global shift away from cobalt-based batteries in electric vehicles (EVs), focusing on China's rapid adoption of cobalt-free lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries and questioning why the United States lags behind. The discussion traces humanitarian concerns tied to cobalt mining, technological breakthroughs, government policies, and the evolving business strategies of both Chinese and American automakers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Problem with Cobalt

[00:12–01:06]

• Cobalt in batteries: Cobalt is a stabilizer in lithium batteries, commonly found in phones, laptops, and EVs.
• Drawbacks: Cobalt is expensive and raises significant ethical concerns due to mining practices, especially child labor and unsafe working conditions in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC).
  • Quote (Henry Sanderson, 00:45):
    “A lot of the cobalt was mined by hand by individual laborers, often including children...”

2. The Alternative: Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP)

[01:06–01:47]

• History: LFP batteries have existed since the 1990s but were initially deemed inferior due to lower capacity ("range anxiety").
• By 2020: Cobalt-based batteries dominated, seen as the future for EVs.

3. A Turning Point: Humanitarian & Safety Concerns

[03:12–03:44]

• Risks in the DRC: The mining process is hazardous and often lethal.
  • Quote (Henry Sanderson, 03:29):
    “Soon after Isaiah, there was a big cave in and lots of people lost their lives.”
• Battery fires: Cobalt batteries also posed serious safety risks during storage and transport.

4. China's Strategic Shift

[04:06–06:15]

• Business leader vision: BYD's founder, Wang Chuanfu, championed LFP for its safety and potential lower costs, betting on it early despite industry skepticism.
• Government policy as a catalyst:
  • Pre-2020: Subsidies favored cobalt for its higher capacity.
  • Post-2020: Subsidies prioritized affordability, driving demand for iron phosphate.
• Technical innovation: BYD and battery giant CATL improved LFP battery design—integrating packs into car frames to increase energy density.
  • Quote (Henry Sanderson, 05:51):
    “This was taking an existing chemistry and really improving it.”
• Result: By 2025, LFP batteries power around 80% of new Chinese EVs.

5. The US Response: Playing Catch-Up

[06:15–09:41]

• Slow adoption: In 2024, less than 10% of American EVs used LFP batteries.
• Emerging innovators:
  • Mujeeb Ijaz, founder of ONE (Our Next Energy), advocates LFP in the US, building on Chinese advancements and achieving over 400 miles range.
  • Quote (Mujeeb Ijaz, 07:03):
    “That’s actually the way in which technology has always evolved... we’ve seen how a step leads to a second step...”
• Ford’s move: Announced production of cobalt-free EVs in Kentucky, drawing on techniques pioneered by BYD and CATL, and licensing technology from CATL.
  • Ford’s investment: $2 billion to refit the Louisville factory.

6. Why Not Use American Battery Tech?

[08:13–09:41]

• Business over humanitarianism: US companies stress cost-effectiveness and scalability, not ethics, as the prime motivator for switching.
• License choices: Ford chose CATL’s tech for its maturity and capacity, despite domestic startups like ONE existing.
  • Quote (Charles Poon, Ford, 08:35):
    “One is being able to select a chemistry in this particular case... second is to be able to drive the scale...”

7. The Ongoing Race & Irony

[09:41–10:20]

• Sourcing tech: Ford’s decision raises questions about US dependence on Chinese battery technology.
• Global progress: Mujeeb Ijaz is working with BMW—ironically, BMW’s early gamble on CATL (back in the 2010s) led to CATL’s current dominance.
  • Quote (Darian Woods, 10:05):
    “BMW has a track record here... That company was CATL, now the world’s largest EV battery maker.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On DRC mining dangers:
  “Soon after Isaiah, there was a big cave in and lots of people lost their lives.” — Henry Sanderson [03:29]
• On BYD’s visionary pursuit:
  “Even in 2002... he thought that LFP lithium ion phosphate batteries were the way to go.” — Henry Sanderson [04:16]
• On technological evolution:
  “I think actually that’s human progress. That’s actually the way in which technology has always evolved...” — Mujeeb Ijaz [07:03]
• On Ford’s supplier choice:
  “One is being able to select a chemistry... second is to be able to drive the scale...” — Charles Poon [08:35]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:12] – Introduction to cobalt in batteries
• [00:45] – Human cost: mining in the Congo
• [01:47] – The “race” between cobalt and LFP batteries
• [03:12] – Humanitarian tragedies and safety risks
• [04:16] – BYD’s early commitment to LFP
• [05:15] – China’s policy pivot and the LFP breakthrough
• [06:15] – China’s market transformation
• [06:47] – US startup ONE’s efforts and the challenge to catch up
• [07:37] – Ford’s recent announcement and reliance on CATL tech
• [09:13] – Ford’s approach to supply chain innovation
• [09:52] – BMW’s early bet on CATL and the cyclical nature of tech leadership

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Conclusion

The transition away from cobalt-based batteries—propelled by humanitarian, safety, and cost concerns—is rapidly remaking the global EV industry. China’s decisive bet on LFP batteries has granted it a commanding lead, leaving the US to adopt innovation and technology already proven overseas. The episode ends pondering the future: will American battery technology catch up or will the US continue to rely on Chinese advancements as the world shifts toward more ethical, scalable, and safe EV batteries?

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Transcript

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[Darian Woods]

If you take a look inside your phone or your laptop, you're likely to find a particular chemical element in the battery. Cobalt. Cobalt is a hard, shiny metal that helps stabilize lithium batteries that can store a lot of charge.

[Wayland Wong]

Cobalt batteries seem perfect for electric vehicles. They don't weigh too much, but can fuel the cars for hundreds of miles. But cobalt has downsides. It's expensive and has a significant human cost. Author Henry Sanderson went to the Democratic Republic of the Congo in 2019, where most cobalt comes from.

[Henry Sanderson]

A lot of the cobalt was mined by hand by individual laborers, often including children, who dig it up with very little safety equipment and take this cobalt and to sell it to stores on the side of the road, many of which are Chinese. And this cobalt then goes to China, makes its way into the battery supply chain and into the electric vehicle.

[Wayland Wong]

Back then, there was another battery available without cobalt, one that had been around since the 1990s. Lithium iron phosphate batteries. The two batteries had been in a two horse race to fuel electric vehicles. But before 2020, the race really looked like it had been won by cobalt, and the future looked to be fueled by it.

[Darian Woods]

And yet, last week in a factory in Louisville, Kentucky, Ford made a big announcement. It was about its future electric vehicle plans and cobalt was absent.

[Wayland Wong]

We are going to use lithium iron phosphate batteries. They are cobalt and nickel free.

[Darian Woods]

This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Darian Woods.

[Wayland Wong]

And I'm Wayland Wong. Today on the show, the great story, switch away from cobalt batteries. We explain how it happened in China and ask why the US Is playing catch up.

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[Darian Woods]

Henry Sanderson's visit to the Democratic Republic of the Congo, he met a former child miner who had seen other children die. As cobalt mines roofs imploded, Henry learnt about entire road tunnels that would collapse from all the mining that had happened around it.

[Henry Sanderson]

Soon after Isaiah, there was a big cave in and lots of people lost their lives.

[Wayland Wong]

Cobalt batteries were associated not only with humanitarian concerns, it also had safety problems. Ships carrying electric vehicles have been catching fire over the past several years.

[Darian Woods]

Iron phosphate batteries were an alternative. They had cheaper chemicals, but they had one major flaw less capacity.

[Henry Sanderson]

People were worried about range anxiety and China, when it first started to subsidize batteries and electric vehicles, nickel, manganese cobalt batteries were prioritized.

[Wayland Wong]

Some engineers and business leaders thought differently, like Wang Chuanfu, the founder and CEO of byd, the Chinese electric vehicle company that's now the biggest seller in the world.

[Henry Sanderson]

Even in 2002, you know, he, he thought that LFP lithium ion phosphate batteries were the way to go. Because he, he, he thought that the safety aspect was very important. If you were going to have all these cars on the roads, you needed them to be safe. And he also thought they could be cheaper.

[Darian Woods]

So in the horse race between cobalt and iron phosphate batteries, BYD was betting on the iron phosphate horse. Then in 2017, the Chinese government changed the way that subsidies worked. And Chinese EV manufacturers would get more subsidies the denser the energy capacity of their batteries. So this really favoured the high capacity cobalt batteries. Around then, 80% of Chinese EVs used cobalt.

[Henry Sanderson]

For a moment it looked like BYD or Wang Tranfu had made the wrong bet by going with this cheaper technology. But then in 2020, China changed its EV subsidy structure to focus on cost over performance.

[Wayland Wong]

This was a key moment. Now cheaper cars were favored by the Chinese government, tilting the playing field more in favor of iron phosphate batteries. And this was especially the case given technical innovations from BYD and also the huge Chinese EV battery maker catl.

[Darian Woods]

What BYD and CATL did was build batteries without unnecessary packaging. BYD even started building directly into the car's first floor with a battery pack integrated into the very frame of the car. That reduced the amount of casing and hardware needed so more battery could be squeezed in.

[Henry Sanderson]

This was taking an existing chemistry and really improving it.

[Wayland Wong]

And to be clear, cobalt batteries still have more capacity, but by better designing the car and the battery packs, you could cram in more of the iron phosphate batteries and get more range.

[Darian Woods]

China's use of iron phosphate batteries skyrocketed. There are now about 80% of new EVs. There's cobalt cars in China are now far less common.

[Henry Sanderson]

So we've seen a five years complete change in the world's biggest electric vehicle market.

[Wayland Wong]

But the US has been slow to catch on. In 2024, less than 10% of electric vehicles used iron phosphate batteries. This is a fact that American engineer Mujeeb Ajaz wants to change.

[Mujeeb Ajaz]

I came to the conclusion, especially at the start of the pandemic, that I needed to really start acting upon a vision that we bring North American battery manufacturing with sustainable materials into being.

[Darian Woods]

Mujeeb founded the battery company our next energy or one in 2020. Mujeep says that his company's iron phosphate batteries have demonstrated more than 400 miles of range. Mujeep says this is innovation that is built off all the findings coming from China.

[Mujeeb Ajaz]

You know, it's no different than the entire philosophy of patenting ideas and then you publish your ideas and then people think about what you did and then they try to do something a little better. I think actually that's human progress. That's actually the way in which technology has always evolved is that we've seen how a step leads to a second step, at least to a third step.

[Wayland Wong]

One of those companies that's building off what happened in China five years ago is Ford.

[Darian Woods]

I'm so excited about today.

[Fernando Madera]

We've been waiting three years for this, for this moment.

[Darian Woods]

So that big announcement by Ford CEO Jim Farley last week in that Kentucky factory was about constructing electric vehicles from the battery up, building off the techniques that BYD and Catl pioneered. And taking it a step further, Jim also announced a refit of that Louisville factory to build cars that would use iron phosphate battery cells. We will spend $2 billion here in Louisville modernizing this plant.

[Wayland Wong]

Now to be clear, none of these companies have been citing humanitarian concerns as their top reasons for shifting away from cobalt business sense for them.

[Darian Woods]

Yeah, there was a lot of self congratulations for building batteries in America. But it's worth noting that Ford's iron phosphate battery factory licenses technology from catl, the Chinese battery company, not American startups like Mujeebs. Charles Poon is the head of high voltage propulsion engineering at Ford. We asked him why.

[Charles Poon]

There are really like two elements. One is being able to select a chemistry in this particular case in the right technology and, and really the second is to be able to drive the scale and our electrification plants are going to be able to support a full scale operation of a gigafactory to translate all this.

[Wayland Wong]

CATL had the track record and the resources to build lots of batteries fast.

[Darian Woods]

Is there an argument for, I guess, seeding and supporting younger companies? That may not be quite there yet, but maybe in five to ten years they could grow to be the next catl?

[Charles Poon]

Oh, I mean, absolutely. I mean, just because we don't select one supplier for a particular project doesn't necessarily mean that they are not being considered. In fact, Ford has many endeavors in our research and development and in our supply chain group where we're constantly developing and working with startups to be able to build that robust and resilient supply chain in the future.

[Darian Woods]

Ford's announcement shows the US is taking steps towards reducing its Cobalt demand, but there is an open question about whether the technology to enable that will be American or Chinese.

[Wayland Wong]

In the meantime, Wajib Ijaz from one is working with a large automotive company. Ironically though, it's not American, it's the German car giant BMW.

[Darian Woods]

And you know what? Waylon BMW has a track record here. In the early 2000 and tens, it took a gamble on a young battery company that was thinking of switching to make EV batteries. That company was catl, now the world's largest EV battery maker.

[Wayland Wong]

That is a good final detail. That's fun.

[Darian Woods]

This episode was produced by Cooper Katz McKim with engineering by Kwesi Lee and Gilly Moon. It was fact checked by Cerro Juarez Cake and Cannon edits the show and the indicator is a production of NPR.

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