A (2:20)

When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices like full service, wealth management and advice when you need it. You can also invest on your own and trade on thinkorswim. Visit schwab.com to learn more.

E (2:33)

This message comes from BetterHelp. This month, BetterHelp's encouraging people to reach out, grab lunch with a friend, call your parents, or even find Support in therapy. BetterHelp makes it easy with its therapist match commitment and over 12 years of experience matching users with qualified professionals. Just like that lunch with a friend. Once you reach out, you'll wonder why you didn't do it Sooner. Go to betterhelp.com NPR for 10% off your first month.

C (3:01)

Growing up on the Faroe Islands off mainland Denmark, Rakul Skariner loved hanging out with her school friends. School work less so by age 15, she was ready to leave.

F (3:13)

I just wanted to go out and have fun with friends and drink some beers and, you know, like living the, the good life as a teenager.

B (3:22)

So Raquel got a job on a fishing boat. After several years, she moved to the Denmark mainland and got a job in childcare, which worked for a while until she had her own daughter.

F (3:33)

Then I was like, I came home to take care of a child, go to work, and take care of another child who also needs my help and care. So I thought that it became too much for me.

B (3:47)

So she quit, which sounds like a big decision because the family would basically survive on government support.

C (3:54)

How worried about receiving health care were you?

F (3:57)

No, I did not. No, I don't think that. Because here in Denmark, we are paying that much in tax that how much you earn and then we are paying that way.

C (4:06)

So you've paid so much tax that you thought the government will pay for this?

F (4:10)

I think so.

B (4:11)

Of course, healthcare is publicly funded in Denmark. And she got money too. Between all her various allowances from the government, she says she got the equivalent of about $1,500 a month.

C (4:23)

Rakul did have obligations, though. She had to show that she was applying to jobs and regularly meet with a jobs counsellor. And this was administered through her old union tied to her childcare job. At least two out of every three workers are part of a trade union in Denmark.

F (4:40)

They were like telling me that I had an opportunity to get in school. I was like, me to school? Oh my God, no, I don't want to do. And they were like, but, but listen to me. You are this person. You are full of energy. You have so much positive vibes in your body that we, we mean that you will be great to this job. And I was like, okay, what is this job?

C (5:02)

Union suggested she trained to become a nursing assistant.

F (5:05)

And I was thinking like for like 15 seconds and look up into the ceiling. And I was like, okay, but what about money? I'm a single mom. I cannot have afford to pay school. And he was like, but now? Yeah, but you are getting. How do you call your payments? Yeah, doing this school.

B (5:25)

The Danish government would pay 110% of the unemployment Benefit to people studying in industries where there was a shortage of labor. Rakul could get this higher payment from the government by studying social work and healthcare.

F (5:38)

I was like, wow, I want to try to do that.

C (5:42)

Raku enrolled and studied for the next five and a half years and she didn't need to take on an extra part time job.

F (5:49)

You're living a normal life and you can give your children food in their mouth without thinking about, oh, we need to save 10 crowns for this and 15 for that. We did not live like that.

B (6:00)

When Rakwal graduated this summer, she landed that job as a nursing assistant helping.

F (6:04)

Patients, strokes, cancer, depression, everything. So we are like helping them up on their foot.

C (6:14)

So from Ruckel's perspective, this whole unemployment situation was pretty good. She had the opportunity to leave a job she didn't feel was suitable and retrain for another while getting a decent allowance each month from the government. This is flex security in action, but.

B (6:31)

For a less motivated person. We wanted to know if there was a risk this safety net might become a hammock.

D (6:38)

So you want to know about the flex security?

C (6:40)

Yes, so we'll talk about that.

B (6:42)

Morden Graysing is a deputy Director General at the Danish Agency for Labor Market and Recruitment.

C (6:47)

If the government pays unemployed people fairly well, doesn't that create the incentive for people to quit their jobs and just stay unemployed?

D (6:57)

Exactly. But that's one of the the main arguments of having an extensive active labor market system is to create motivation.

B (7:05)

Active labor market system, as in the government, helps with retraining and connecting unemployed people with jobs. It might even mean the government tops up people's wages at first as they start working again. But there's expectations on the unemployed person.

D (7:20)

Basically there's a unwritten contract that, okay, you receive these social benefits, they're quite generous, but then you have to participate in activities and be active in seeking jobs and document that you are active pursuing to get a job.

B (7:39)

Unemployment benefits are sanctioned if the person doesn't meet these responsibilities.

D (7:44)

So yeah, this incentive is there. And that is why we have a quite intensive and some would say aggressive active labor market system. Because we are pursuing that EC individual are getting back into jobs very, very quickly.

C (8:00)

Morten says this muscular approach, balancing rights and responsibilities has worked.

D (8:06)

It seems like it's performing quite well. In many years we've had a high employment and also our unemployment is very low actually. So. Well, basically the results are quite good.

B (8:20)

It's true that raising unemployment benefits alone will likely raise joblessness, but the economic literature shows that adding training and Job counseling to the mix often helps get people into jobs. Results vary on specific programs.

C (8:35)

As for whether a country like the US could copy and paste Denmark's approach to unemployment, well, we already have the flexible part. Workers in the US have among the lowest protections from getting fired among rich countries. As for the security part, Morton was actually pretty tempered.

D (8:54)

Yeah, it's hard to make a short term advice because this model, this institutional buildup, takes many years of building up trust and the build up of institutions.

B (9:10)

A critical part of the flex security puzzle is unions like the union, Raquel was part of that work collaboratively with the government and employers to help unemployed members. If those relationships are acrimonious, then the machine doesn't work as well.

D (9:25)

If you look at the performance of the Danish labor market and the Danish economy, one would say that this might be the bumblebee that in theory couldn't fly, basically.

C (9:37)

And that buzzing economy is working for Rakul. Her new job is a far better match for her.

F (9:43)

I love my job. Seriously. Really much. So I put 150% in my job.

C (9:49)

You're a people person, so this is a great job for Seriously.

F (9:53)

Really.

B (9:55)

You know, this all feels really relevant right now as we talk about how AI is coming for everyone's job. Even like white collar jobs now.

C (10:03)

Yeah, Flex security may help ease the pain to transition to a new job.

B (10:08)

I could use a flex security blanket.

C (10:10)

Right now and the label made in Denmark. This episode was produced by Cooper Katz for Kim and Sierra Juarez with engineering by Robert Rodriguez. It was fact checked by Tyler Jones Cake and Canon edits the show and the indicator is a production of npr.

A (10:30)

This message comes from Mint mobile. Starting at $15 a month, make the switch@mintmobile.com Switch $45 upfront payment for 3 months 5 gigabyte plan equivalent to $15 a month Taxes and fees Extra first 3 months only. See Terms support for NPR and the following message come from Rosetta Stone. The perfect app to achieve your language learning goals no matter how busy your schedule gets. It's designed to maximize study time with immersive 10 minute lessons and audio practice for your commute. Plus tailor your learning plan for specific objectives like travel. Get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off and unlimited access to 25 language courses. Learn more at rosettastone.com NPR this message comes from Bombas. Treat your feet right this season with merino wool, cashmere, long staple cotton and more premium materials. Better basics. Visit bombas.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off your first order.