How your favorite fish sticks might be funding Russia's war

Summary

Podcast Summary: How Your Favorite Fish Sticks Might Be Funding Russia's War

Podcast: The Indicator from Planet Money
Date: February 26, 2026
Hosts: Waylon Wong, Nate Hedge (guest, Outside In)
Main Guest: Jessica Gephardt (Assistant Professor, seafood trade expert)
Episode Length: ~10 minutes

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the surprising global journey of seafood products—like fish sticks and imitation crab—that appear in U.S. grocery stores labeled as products of China, but actually originate in Russian waters. It delves into how Russian seafood continues to enter U.S. markets—and generate billions for Russia—despite sanctions and attempts to ban these imports in response to the war in Ukraine. The episode unpacks trade loopholes, the economic impact on U.S. fishermen, and ongoing challenges with enforcing stricter seafood bans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Russian Origin of "Product of China" Seafood

• [00:33–01:05] Nate explains that much of the frozen seafood labeled as a "Product of China" in U.S. grocery stores was actually caught in Russia.
  • Notable Quote:

  “If you follow those fish sticks through the maze of international shipping lanes and processing plants, you might find they weren’t actually caught in China, but instead Russia. And those fish fingers are helping fund the Kremlin’s war in Ukraine.”
  — Nate Hedge ([00:33])

2. Economic Context: Seafood as Russia’s Revenue Source

• [03:36–04:17] U.S. and Russia are neighbors in the North Pacific, sharing fish stocks like pollock, used in imitation crab and McDonald’s Filet-O-Fish.
• Before the Ukraine war, Russia exported $6 billion in seafood annually, including $1 billion to the U.S.
• Seafood, while not as crucial as oil and gas, plays a significant economic role for Russia, with part of the industry linked to the Kremlin.
  • Notable Quote:

  “That industry has raised vast sums of money for the Kremlin through taxes and export duties. And at least one of the seafood industry’s top titans has close ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin's inner circle.”
  — Nate Hedge ([03:56])

3. The “Substantial Transformation” Trade Loophole

• [04:47–06:22] Jessica Gephardt explains how the U.S. determines country of origin based on where seafood is last substantially processed—not where it’s caught.
  • Russian-caught fish are processed in China, often into breaded filets, canned salmon, or imitation crab.
  • These products then legally carry a China origin label when sold in the U.S.
  • Notable Quote:

  “It’s not as if the seafood that shows up says where it was harvested… the country on that box is going to be the place that did the processing, not the country that did the harvesting.”
  — Jessica Gephardt ([04:47])

• This setup allows Russian fish to easily enter the U.S. market despite formal bans.

4. China’s Central Role in Seafood Processing (& Risk of Brand Mixing)

• [05:57–06:39] China’s expertise in high-volume, low-cost fish processing is a major factor. Other countries also use Chinese plants, sometimes mixing Russian and non-Russian fish.

  • Notable Quote:

  “It makes the seafood more affordable… But that also makes it too easy for Chinese processors to mix Russian fish in with fish from other countries and put them in the same bag…”
  — Waylon Wong ([06:22])

• Jessica notes that unless Chinese plants “perfectly segregate” supply chains, which is unlikely, Russian seafood may be entering the U.S. labeled as “Product of China.”

5. Impact on U.S. (Alaska) Fisheries

• [07:17–08:28]
• Russia has less strict environmental and labor regulations, enabling them to sell fish cheaper on the global market—hurting Alaskan fishermen.
  • Notable Quote:

  “We share an ocean, clearly with Russia. We have fish that move back and forth across international lines. So where they are over harvested, another area has a direct impact on the sustainability of our resource.”
  — Linda Behnken, Alaska fisherman ([07:36])

• Russia has also flooded the market with cheap pink salmon since the Ukraine war began, further hurting U.S. fisheries.

6. Efforts to Tighten Seafood Bans & Enforcement Challenges

• [08:41–09:26]

• Under pressure from the industry and Congress, the U.S. adopted stricter rules to close the China processing loophole.

• Enforcement is difficult—Jessica argues for better systems to trace seafood origins, including audits and scientific testing.

  • Notable Quote:

  “There has to be some layer beyond just asking for more reporting.”
  — Jessica Gephardt ([09:08])

• Despite new rules, preliminary evidence suggests that Russian seafood continues to move through China and onto the U.S. market.

7. Final Takeaway: Consumer Caution

• [09:44–09:55] “Buyer beware” is the word of caution. If you care about sourcing, labels may not tell the full story.
• One notable exception: McDonald’s Filet-O-Fish in the U.S. is sourced from Alaskan fishermen (“Made in the US of A”).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Trade Law Confusion:

  “The name of the country on that box is going to be the place that did the processing, not the country that did the harvesting.”
  — Jessica Gephardt ([05:19])

• On 'Fish Dumping' Post-Invasion:

  “In the North Pacific, Russia was pumping out a lot of pink salmon and just dumping that on the market to help fund that war… [which] had a huge negative effect on the markets for Alaska salmon.”
  — Linda Behnken ([08:02])

• Humorous Sidenote:

  “I can see a McDonald’s from my house.”
  — Waylon Wong ([09:55])
  (A playful callback to earlier jokes about seeing Russia from Alaska, tying in the show’s tone.)

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Timeline of Key Segments

• 00:33-01:05 — Introduction: How your fish sticks may originate from Russia.
• 03:36-04:17 — Role of Russia in global and U.S. seafood markets.
• 04:47-06:22 — Trade loopholes and “substantial transformation” explained by Jessica Gephardt.
• 06:22-07:17 — The risk of mixing fish from multiple origins in China.
• 07:17-08:28 — Market impacts on Alaskan fishermen; Russia’s market strategies.
• 08:41-09:26 — U.S. attempts at closing loopholes and expert concerns about enforcement.
• 09:44-09:55 — Closing advice to consumers and McDonald’s sourcing clarification.

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains The Indicator’s signature blend of accessible economic explanation, light humor, and journalistic clarity. The hosts banter about fish, SNL sketches, and fast food, balancing the seriousness of the topic with a conversational approach.

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Key Takeaways

• Much of the seafood labeled from China in U.S. stores is actually caught by Russian fisheries, which helps fund Russia’s war efforts.
• Loopholes in trade law (“substantial transformation”) make it easy for Russian-sourced fish to be relabeled and exported as Chinese.
• U.S. regulations have tried, and struggled, to close these loopholes; robust traceability and enforcement remain urgent needs.
• Consumers seeking to avoid Russian seafood may find it difficult based on labelling alone.

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This episode is a succinct, revealing look into the global seafood supply chain, trade law quirks, and the hidden economic impacts of international sanctions—served up with a dash of humor and everyday relevance.

Transcript

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Npr.

[Waylon Wong]

This is the Indicator from Planet Money. I'm Waylon Wong here with friend of the show, Nate Hedge from the public radio podcast outside in.

[Nate Hedge]

Hey, Waylon.

[Waylon Wong]

Hello.

[Nate Hedge]

Hey. You are a fish fan, right? The food, not the jam band, of course.

[Waylon Wong]

I like the fish food. Ice cream. I do like fish generally, yes.

[Nate Hedge]

So if you're in a grocery store grabbing a bag of frozen fish sticks for the kids, or maybe a can of. Yeah, or yourself. Or maybe a can of pink salmon, you might see a label that says product of China. You toss it in the cart, you think nothing of it. But if you follow those fish sticks through the maze of international shipping lanes and processing plants, you might find that they weren't actually caught in China, but instead Russia. And those fish fingers are helping fund the Kremlin's war in Ukraine.

[Waylon Wong]

That war entered its fifth year this week. Today on the show, how Russia has dodged import bans to keep selling billions of dollars worth of seafood every year. The US has been trying to stop it, but how successful has it really been?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

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[Nate Hedge]

Waylon. Do you remember that SNL skit from almost 20 years ago, when Amy Poehler was playing Hillary Clinton and Tina Fey was playing Alaska Governor and vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin.

[Waylon Wong]

Yes, the golden age of political impersonations. I believe that diplomacy should be the cornerstone of any foreign policy. And I can see Russia from my house.

[Nate Hedge]

Now, obviously, Sarah Palin could not see Russia from her house in Alaska, but it is true that Russia and the United States are neighbors sharing the vast icy waters of the North Pacific. And in those waters swim one of the world's most popular fish, pollock.

[Waylon Wong]

If you're eating imitation crab or maybe a filet o fish at McDonald's, you are eating pollock. And while more than half of it is caught on the American side of the North Pacific north, the rest is caught on the Russian side. Those pollock helped drive that country's multibillion dollar seafood industry, along with other fish like herring, cod, and pink salmon.

[Nate Hedge]

And that industry has raised vast sums of money for the Kremlin through taxes and export duties. And at least one of the seafood industry's top titans has close ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin's inner circle. So when Russia invaded Ukraine In February of 2022, seafood was one of the myriad industries the west targeted with bans.

[Waylon Wong]

The idea behind these bans was to knock the wind out of Russia's economy. While seafood isn't the economic powerhouse that, say, oil and gas is for Russia, it still plays a major role. Before the war began in 2021, the country exported about $6 billion worth of fish, including $1 billion worth to the United States. But actually, banning a product isn't as simple as checking for a Made in Russia sticker at the border. Jessica Gephardt is an assistant professor at Washington who studies the seafood trade.

[Jessica Gephardt]

It's not as if the seafood that shows up says where it was harvested, automatically says where it's coming from, but it does not actually say who caught it.

[Nate Hedge]

Jessica recently co authored a paper about how Russian fish entered the US over the last couple of decades before the current war. And what she's talking about here is a trade law concept known as substantial transformation. Essentially, the country of origin on a label isn't necessarily where the fish was caught. It was where it was last radically transformed.

[Jessica Gephardt]

So if you take a whole block of frozen fish and you process it down into breaded filets and you import it as a bunch of breaded fish fillets that are frozen, and you're picking up that box at the market, the name of the country on that box is going to be the place that did the processing, not the country that did the harvesting.

[Nate Hedge]

And in this case, Russians are catching fish and then selling them to giant processing plants in China.

[Jessica Gephardt]

Russia can really take advantage of China's expertise and specialization in fish processing and low labor costs to process that fish and re export it.

[Waylon Wong]

Once in China, the fish is transformed into stuff like breaded fish fingers, canned pink salmon, or imitation crab. Then it's sold to the United States and other countries with a label that says it's from China. Russia has been doing this for years, way before the war in Ukraine began. And they aren't the only ones. Lots of other countries export their fish to these Chinese processing plants as well, including some American companies.

[Jessica Gephardt]

It makes the seafood more affordable. There are low labor costs. They're very specialized and very efficient at that processing. And so it keeps prices down for consumers.

[Waylon Wong]

But that also makes it too easy for Chinese processors to mix Russian fish in with fish from other countries and put them in the same bag, or

[Jessica Gephardt]

can if they are getting the same species from multiple countries. The only way to know for sure that none of that is Russian would be if they're perfectly segregating their supply chains.

[Nate Hedge]

And the chances are they aren't. In her recent study, Jessica found that before the war began, about 90% of the Russian seafood sold in the US came through these Chinese processing plants. But looking at the most recent data she has today, she says that number didn't really budge. Despite Biden's initial ban, this loophole isn't

[Waylon Wong]

the only way Russia has bolstered its seafood industry during the war. It also has less strict environmental and labor regulations than the United States, which means the Russians can sell their fish for a lot less money on the world market to countries that don't have bans. Alaska fishermen like Linda Behnken say this undercuts their bottom line.

[Linda Behnken]

We share an ocean, clearly with Russia. We have fish that move back and forth across international lines. So where they are over harvested, another area has a direct impact on the sustainability of our resource.

[Nate Hedge]

Case in point, after Putin invaded Ukraine, Russia had a banner year harvesting pink salmon. They're one of the most commonly eaten salmon in the world. And just like pollock, they are a shared resource.

[Linda Behnken]

In the North Pacific, Russia was pumping out a lot of pink salmon and just dumping that on the market to help fund that war. The worst of it was the impact, of course, on the people in Ukraine, but also really had a huge negative effect on the markets for Alaska salmon.

[Waylon Wong]

By dumping Linda means Russia was flooding the global market with pink salmon. At rock bottom prices.

[Linda Behnken]

They just undermined our markets and had a big impact on our fisheries.

[Waylon Wong]

Russia was sending a lot of this salmon to those processing plants in China. That meant because of the loophole it was churning up in the U.S. now,

[Nate Hedge]

since that war began, the seafood industry and Alaska's congressional delegation have been pestering the federal government to tighten its bans on Russia's seafood industry. And the calls have kind of worked.

[Waylon Wong]

Yeah, there's since been layers of new rules and executive orders on Russian seafood, including a ban on the fish that comes through that China loophole. But Jessica says it's a pretty imperfect system that she thinks needs to become much more robust.

[Jessica Gephardt]

We then need systems to actually validate that data, whether that's audits or actually testing sort of species and using some of our scientific tools to try to verify information. But there has to be some layer beyond just asking for more reporting.

[Nate Hedge]

Now, Jessica hasn't analyzed data from last year to find out exactly how much Russian fish is still entering the U.S. despite these new rules. But Russia's commercial fishing industry says 2025 was a banner year for them with record revenues and a big increase in shipments to China.

[Waylon Wong]

So bottom line, buyer beware.

[Nate Hedge]

Though Waylon, I do want to tell you because I know that you love the filet o fish from McDonald's.

[Jessica Gephardt]

I do.

[Nate Hedge]

If you're buying it here in the U.S. the company says it does come

[Waylon Wong]

from Alaska fishermen made in the US of A. I can see a McDonald's from my house. This episode was produced by Cooper Katz McKim and engineered by Kwesi Lee. A spec check by Vito Emanuel. Kicking Cannon is our editor and the indicator is a production of npr.

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