NPR Host (3:23)

Now, I gotta admit that when I first heard Nick say this, I didn't quite believe it. But a quick search online, this is.

Nick Florico (3:30)

The first vape tainment system. It is a disposable vape where you.

NPR Host (3:36)

Can actually play games on confirmed that it is indeed a thing.

Adrian Ma (3:41)

Bruh. This is so funny.

NPR Host (3:48)

Products like these are not legal for sale in the US And Nick went on to explain why.

Nick Florico (3:54)

So the FDA is tasked with deciding what vapes can actually be authorized. That's the official term. And they use this standard called the appropriate for the protection of public health standard. I won't get into what that actually means, but essentially the FDA has to go through all of this data that are submitted by companies making a case for why the market needs this product and why it's not going to hurt kids. And so a few companies have gotten that authorization. Most recently, Juul just got their authorization to sell their products legally. But most of these products that we see on store shelves haven't gotten that authorization. We've seen the FDA shoot down millions of applications, actually.

NPR Host (4:29)

And yet, despite those FDA regulations, President Trump's own stance on vaping seems to be a little muddled. Like right before the election, he bragged on social media that he, quote, saved flavored vaping during his first administration, and then he promised to save vaping. So what was that all about?

Nick Florico (4:49)

Yeah, so in 2019, at the height of the youth vaping epidemic, the Trump administration actually announced that it was planning to ban all flavored vapes. So data was consistently showing that kids overwhelmingly were attracted to these flavored products. And so the thought was they needed to be completely rid of the market. This was something that President Trump supposedly supported, but then he ended up subsequently backtracking on it in the last minute for fear of political backlash. And so when he says that he saved flavored vaping, what essentially he's saying is that he backed away from a policy that he once supported.

NPR Host (5:21)

So a few weeks ago, there's this industry group called the Vapor Technology association and they say they dropped $1 million on advertising aimed at President Trump.

Nick Florico (5:31)

President Trump, target the Chinese companies making illicit vapes aimed at our kids. But please keep the US Market open for American small businesses to thrive.

NPR Host (5:39)

What are they trying to accomplish with this?

Nick Florico (5:41)

Yeah, it's really interesting. So essentially they're, they're lobbying for the FDA to, to be more, hands off, to let more of their companies sell their products legally in this country. But it's a really, really interesting needle that they're trying to thread here because essentially, you know, they're saying, yes, the FDA should be going after certain vapes that come from China that are targeted towards kids, but not our vapes. Those people might be selling, they're selling their products illegally too. But they're saying, hey, we're different, we're responsible. You need to take a more surgical approach towards policing this market and not just pull all of these vapes off the shel, because that's going to put our responsible small businesses at risk.

NPR Host (6:23)

Okay, so how receptive is Trump to the vape industry's lobbying?

Nick Florico (6:28)

So there is reporting that he has met with the vaping industry. He's clearly heard them talking about that industry. And I think there's really two pieces that would lend his support. So the first is that, you know, this is a business issue. A lot of vape shops are small businesses. There's this idea that we shouldn't shut down these businesses just because we might not agree with everything that they're selling. And the other point, though, that I think is really worth focusing on is this question of whether vapes can help adults quit smoking. And so the Vapor Technology association essentially says, hey, we are not here to sell products to kids to get kids hooked. Actually, we're making adult friendly products. And even the FDA says if you switch from a cigarette to a vape, you actually could improve your health. And so we should celebrate that.

NPR Host (7:12)

Can you say more about how Trump's FDA is approaching vaping regulations?

Nick Florico (7:18)

So thus far it really has been status quo from the Biden administration. So over the past several years, the FDA has really, really struggled to regulate the vaping market. So nearly every vape that you see on a shelf, if you go to a convenience store or a smoke shop, nearly every one of those vapes is actually illegal. The FDA said they shouldn't be sold. The FDA has really, really struggled to police that market. And so during the Trump administration, we've essentially seen, you know, the same things. We're seeing enforcement actions of trying to pull these vapes off of shelves, but it really not making much of an impact. This industry remains in this sort of gray area where their products are very ubiquitous, but technically are illegal.

NPR Host (7:56)

Of course, a lot of people who want to see more regulations on the business, those people are concerned about the public health effects of vaping. Right. For instance, the fact that it's addictive. And I think that worry especially applies to younger people. I wonder, is that as much of a concern now as it was compared to, say, the first Trump administration? Or have young people kind of moved on from vaping to things like nicotine pouches?

Nick Florico (8:24)

So it is still definitely a concern. I mean, we should never be talking about vaping without talking about the impact on kids. And most major public health groups still think the FDA should be taking a really stringent position here. But the data do suggest actually that kids vaping rates have dramatically dropped, which is a good thing. So in 2019, we were seeing, you know, roughly a quarter of middle and high schoolers reported currently vaping. That is now in. In the single digits, less than 6%. Young people now actually report regularly vaping. So we are seeing some change here. And gradually, we're seeing some folks change their tune in saying, okay, if the youth vaping crisis has abated, if we figured out how to keep kids away from these products, what role do vapes now have in our society? Can they have some sort of positive effect? Should they be available to adults now that we have gotten the kid issue under control?

NPR Host (9:12)

I mean, I wonder, though, do you feel like if the regulations move the way the industry wants them to, is there a worry that the trend of declining youth vaping could actually backslide?

Nick Florico (9:24)

Yeah, absolutely. And there's a real concern about these vapes that are. They're coming in and being sold illegally. I mean, the problem definitely isn't over, even though we're seeing the numbers get better. And I think that's what public health groups are saying. They're like, we can't take our foot off the gas here. Yes, it's improving, but that doesn't mean we just give up and, you know, go pro full vaping all of a sudden.

NPR Host (9:46)

So to summarize, vapes are ubiquitous and mostly illegal. They're addictive and potentially harmful to your health, but probably less so than smoking. And if this all leaves you still feeling a little hazy on the public health value of vaping, one thing you can be sure of is that for the companies who make and sell vapes, even if they're illicit, it'll continue to be a pretty healthy vapor business. This episode was produced by Cooper Katz McKim with engineering by Jimmy Keeley. It was fact checked by Sierra Juarez. Paddy Hirsch edited this episode. Cake and Cannon is our editor and the indicators of production of npr.

Adrian Ma (10:27)

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