IRS information sharing, bonds bust, and a chorebot future

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Indicator from Planet Money – “IRS Information Sharing, Bonds Bust, and a Chorebot Future”

Release Date: April 11, 2025
Hosts: Adrian Ma and Darian Woods
Guest: Amanda Aronczyk

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1. IRS Information Sharing with DHS: Implications for Undocumented Immigrants

The episode opens with Amanda Aronczyk highlighting a significant indicator: $59.4 billion. This figure represents the estimated tax contributions made by individuals without legal status to the IRS in 2022.

“$59.4 billion… is about how much people without legal status contributed that year in taxes to the IRS.” — Amanda Aronczyk [02:07]

Amanda elucidates that contrary to popular belief, undocumented immigrants are not entirely "living in the shadows." Many pay taxes through payroll deductions using fake or borrowed Social Security numbers or by filing with Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs). However, these contributors do not receive typical benefits such as Social Security, Medicare, or stimulus checks.

Darian Woods raises a critical point about the IRS’s knowledge of taxpayers, prompting Amanda to discuss a new development:

“There is a new agreement that requires the IRS to share some info with the Department of Homeland Security in some cases.” — Amanda Aronczyk [03:04]

This agreement marks a departure from the IRS's longstanding policy of keeping tax data private, regardless of immigration status. The revelation came as IRS Commissioner Melanie Kraus learned of the deal through Fox News, leading to her immediate resignation after only three months in the acting role.

“This seems to go against a very core principle of the IRS, that your tax data is private information regardless of your immigration status.” — Amanda Aronczyk [03:31]

The hosts express concern that this information sharing could deter undocumented individuals from filing taxes, potentially reducing IRS revenue.

2. Bond and Stock Market Declines: An Unusual Economic Indicator

Darian Woods presents the next indicator: a negative 1.3% drop in treasury bond values following a significant tariff announcement in early April. This decline is atypical because bonds usually serve as a safe haven when stock markets falter.

“One measure of how much the value of some treasury bonds fell during the week that followed the big tariff announcement.” — Darian Woods [04:34]

Adrian Ma notes the unusual simultaneity of both bond and stock markets declining:

“Bond prices went down, but the stock market also went down over that week. And that is unusual, right?” — Adrian Ma [04:54]

Typically, when stock markets drop, investors flock to bonds, driving their prices up. However, the concurrent decline suggests a broader loss of confidence in financial instruments. Amanda questions whether this signals decreased trust in the U.S. government's reliability.

Darian explains that investors are turning to alternatives like German government bonds, but with global uncertainty, options remain limited.

“In a world that's been thrown into chaos, pretty much everything else is looking uncertain, too.” — Darian Woods [06:10]

Amanda seeks a silver lining, prompting Darian to reference a previous analogy of racing turtles to explain market behaviors, though no visual aid is available for podcast listeners.

3. The Future of Chorebots: Humanoid Robots in Households

Transitioning to a lighter topic, Adrian Ma introduces the concept of humanoid robots taking over household chores, projecting that by 2055, over 2 billion humanoid robots will be operational, with half assisting in homes.

“By the year 2055… there will be more than 2 billion humanoid robots in operation. And about half of them will actually be working in people's homes.” — Adrian Ma [08:00]

Amanda enthusiastically supports this idea, sharing her frustrated experience with a Roomba and expressing her preference for more capable robots.

“I love that, because I had a Roomba and it just gets stuck with hair and doesn't work almost immediately.” — Amanda Aronczyk [07:45]

Adrian cites a Bank of America report indicating that Americans are increasingly dedicating more time to housework, with notable gender disparities—women spend over two hours daily, while men spend just over one hour.

“The amount of time Americans spend doing housework has gradually increased over the past decade. And there is a consistent gender disparity… for women, it's a little over two hours a day. For men, it's a little over one hour a day.” — Adrian Ma [08:25]

Amanda comments on her personal household dynamics, while Adrian underscores the broader societal and economic implications of integrating chorebots.

The discussion touches on which household tasks robots might best handle, with mopping, laundry sorting, grocery shopping, dishwashing, and cooking topping the list. Darian humorously questions the safety and practicality of robots performing tasks like grocery shopping.

“Wait, so the robot's allowed out of the house the grocery shopping about its safety? What if it gets bullied on the way to the grocery store?” — Darian Woods [09:53]

Adrian concludes by reinforcing the episode's theme of exploring economic indicators that shape everyday life.

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Conclusion

The episode of The Indicator from Planet Money deftly navigates through pressing economic issues and futuristic societal changes. From the controversial IRS data sharing with DHS affecting undocumented taxpayers, to the unusual downturn in both bond and stock markets signaling investor uncertainty, and finally envisioning a future where humanoid robots alleviate the burden of household chores, the hosts provide insightful analysis and engaging discussions. Notable quotes and timestamped segments enrich the narrative, making complex topics accessible to listeners.

For those keen on understanding the interplay between economic policies, market behaviors, and technological advancements, this episode offers a comprehensive and thought-provoking exploration.

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Produced by Angel Carreras, engineered by Kwesi Lee, and fact-checked by Sierra Juarez. Edited by Crown and Cannon at NPR.

Transcript

[NPR]

NPR.

[Adrian Ma]

This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Adrian Ma here with Darian Woods.

[Darian Woods]

Hey. Hey.

[Adrian Ma]

Coming to us from across interstellar Planet Money galaxy is Planet Money's very own Amanda Ronczyk.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Hello. I come in peace.

[Darian Woods]

Amanda, you picked the perfect time to join us.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

I did? How so?

[Darian Woods]

It is Indicators of the Week.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Indicators of the Week. So many things happened this week.

[Adrian Ma]

Today on the show we are talking.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

About the IRS makes a deal with.

[Darian Woods]

Dhs, Department of Homeland Security bonds and stocks went down. Is that meant to happen?

[Adrian Ma]

And robots are coming to replace you or maybe at least most of your chore wheels.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Ooh, that sounds nice. All of that after the break.

[Sponsor]

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[Darian Woods]

All right. Indicators of the week, Amanda Aronczyk, kick us off.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Very good. My indicator of the week is $59.4 billion. That is a number from 2022, and that is about how much people without legal status contributed that year in taxes to the irs.

[Darian Woods]

I think a lot of people often think that being without legal status means you're kind of living in the shadows, but that's not really true.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Not entirely, no. You know, so immigrants without legal status often do end up paying taxes. You know, that might be through payroll taxes. That can happen if they're using like a fake or a borrowed Social Security number or they might be filing taxes with an individual taxpayer ID number. Either way, the money is still going to the irs. And, you know, they don't receive some of the benefits that most people people get from paying those taxes. Things like Social Security or Medicare or most of those stimulus checks. Usually they're just paying in.

[Darian Woods]

I'd imagine that the IRS knows a fair amount about these people.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

The IRS knows a fair amount about all of Us, I would say they would have our full names, our birthdays, our addresses, where we work, and our tax filings. Of course, historically, though, that is not information that the IRS would share with, you know, something like ice, Immigration and Customs Enforcement. So you probably heard that that changed this week. There is a new agreement that requires the IRS to share some info with the Department of Homeland Security in some cases. But while it sounds like the IRS did consult on the agreement, there was a new head of the irs, a woman named Melanie Kraus. She learned that the deal was finalized from Fox News. So she is apparently now resigning from the job.

[Adrian Ma]

And didn't Krause just take the job?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah, that is right. She's been the acting commissioner of the IRS only since February. She is the third person in that role in just three months. You know, because I think this seems to go against a very core principle of the irs, that your tax data is private information regardless of your immigration status. It is not something to be shared. And the IRS has worried in the past that if people are too scared to pay their taxes because they're worried about being found or deported, that that will be a loss in revenue. So even though now, you know, all of the stuff going on at the IRS right now, please don't forget, you should still be filing your taxes. Darian, what is your indicator of the week?

[Darian Woods]

My indicator is negative 1.3%, which is one measure of how much the value of some treasury bonds fell during the week that followed the big tariff announcement that happened at the start of April. So this is like the government wrote you an iou, but now that IOU you have in your hands is kind of crumbling apart. It's worth less now.

[Adrian Ma]

So bond prices went down, but the stock market also went down over that week. And that is unusual, Right, because usually when stocks go down, bond prices go up.

[Darian Woods]

Yeah. A lot of people invest in a mix of both stocks and bonds because a lot of the time they do move in opposite directions. When investors run away from the riskier stock market that that might be tumbling, they look for something solid, dependable, something easy to buy and sell, something like US Government debt.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Ah. So I don't know, does it make it seem like investors do not think that the US Government is all that dependable right around now?

[Darian Woods]

It's certainly a concern you hear from investors. Like these tariffs that President Trump announced were so high and so sweeping that some people are worried. What else could this administration do?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

I kind of feel like the tariff on switch, tariff off switch is really like that's a lot that could go on and off endlessly.

[Adrian Ma]

And the worst case scenario would be like, the government doesn't make good on its debts, Right? It doesn't pay off its bonds like it's supposed to.

[Darian Woods]

So things that might have seemed impossible a few weeks ago are now seeing maybe possible. Investors are just questioning everything.

[Adrian Ma]

So if U.S. treasury bonds are less attractive to investors, what is like fill in the gap?

[Darian Woods]

Investors have been buying up German government bonds, but there's only so many of them, and in a world that's been thrown into chaos, pretty much everything else is looking uncertain, too.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Is there any good news? Come on, Darian, a little good news, please.

[Darian Woods]

I'm not going to give you any good news, but I can give you a fun analogy.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Oh, all right, I'll take it.

[Darian Woods]

So we have been here before in 2022. There was also a fall in both stocks and bonds. We explained why on this podcast, and we used an analogy of turtles racing against each other. And we'll have a link to that in the show notes.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Oh, I hope it's a video that we can watch.

[Sponsor]

No video.

[Darian Woods]

No video in this case.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Fine.

[Darian Woods]

We're podcasters.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

We're podcasters. We love analogies.

[Darian Woods]

Videos for your mind, Amanda.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Oh, sorry. Okay, Adrian, what is your indicator of the week?

[Adrian Ma]

Excellent throw.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Thank you.

[Adrian Ma]

I will start off my bit by asking a question to you all, which is, who here likes doing housework?

[Darian Woods]

I think it's a great time to listen to podcasts, but I have hurt my back cleaning the bathroom tub a couple of times.

[Adrian Ma]

Ooh. Okay. I don't know about you, Amanda. Any favorite or disfavored chores?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

I don't really believe in sweeping.

[Darian Woods]

You don't believe in sweeping? I've seen it happen, Amanda.

[Adrian Ma]

Okay, well, good news for the both of you, because in the future, humans probably won't have to do as much of these chores ourselves. And in fact, we will have robots to do them for us. And I am not talking about room buzz buzzing around your floor. I am talking about humanoid robots with arms and legs and maybe faces.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

I will interrupt to just say that I love that, because I had a Roomba and it just gets stuck with hair and doesn't work almost immediately. So bring on the humanoid robots. The Roomba is a bust.

[Adrian Ma]

Yeah, if it had a hand, it could, like, unclog itself.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

That would be amazing. Yeah.

[Adrian Ma]

And this prediction, specifically what it says is by the year 2055, which is just three short decades from now, there will be more than 2 billion humanoid robots in operation. And about half of them will actually be working in people's homes. So that is my indicator of the week. Two billion humanoid housework robots.

[Darian Woods]

All right, so where did this come from? Like a science fiction novel, this forecast.

[Adrian Ma]

Was actually tucked into a report that bank of America did focusing on housework. And it highlighted a couple interesting data points. One is that the amount of time Americans spend doing housework has gradually increased over the past decade. And maybe not surprisingly, there is a consistent gender disparity in how much time people spend doing housework. For women, it's a little over two hours a day. For men, it's a little over one hour a day. Both these trends, of course, not the.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Situation in my household.

[Adrian Ma]

Oh, yeah.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Anyway, good for you.

[Adrian Ma]

We're here for it.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Thank you. Appreciate that.

[Adrian Ma]

We're here for gender parity in housework. The trends highlighted by bank of America, however, they do have implications not just for society, but for our economy. Right. Researchers at bank of America were thinking about whether humanoid robots might eventually take over a lot of housework. One thing these researchers were looking at was they sort of estimated what chores robots would save the most time at. And I thought this was kind of an interesting prediction. What would you guess are the chores that robots could help the most with?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Oh, I'm going to go with mopping. So time consuming and so difficult to do. That would be so great. I don't know. Mopping.

[Adrian Ma]

Oh, you got to get the water and the bucket.

[Darian Woods]

Sorting laundry.

[Adrian Ma]

You're both right. I mean, they're in the top five. Grocery shopping.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Huh?

[Adrian Ma]

Cleaning, dishwashing, cooking, and laundry were the top five.

[Darian Woods]

Wait, so the robot's allowed out of the house the grocery shopping about its safety? What if it gets bullied on the way to the grocery store?

[Adrian Ma]

On that note, that's indicators of the week.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

We did end on a fun note. I appreciate that. It's been a long week.

[Adrian Ma]

That is what we're here for.

[Darian Woods]

Amanda, thank you for blessing us with your presence.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Oh, thank you. Always a pleasure to visit from Planet Money.

[Adrian Ma]

This episode was produced by Angel Carreras and engineered by Kwesi Lee. It was fact checked by Sierra Juarez Cake and Cannon edits the show and the indicators of production of npr.

[NPR]

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