Men without college degrees aren't doing well

Summary

Summary of "Men without College Degrees Aren't Doing Well"
The Indicator from Planet Money
Release Date: December 6, 2024
Host: Waylon Wong and Darian Woods
Guest: Richard Reeves, President of the American Institute for Boys and Men

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Introduction

In the December 6, 2024 episode of The Indicator from Planet Money, hosts Waylon Wong and Darian Woods delve into the economic struggles faced by men without college degrees. Titled "Men without College Degrees Aren't Doing Well," the episode explores wage trends, the impact of education on earning potential, and the broader societal implications of these economic disparities.

Job Market Overview

The episode begins with an overview of the U.S. job market statistics for November. Darian Woods shares that the economy added 227,000 jobs, but the unemployment rate slightly increased to 4.2%. Despite this uptick, hourly earnings saw robust growth, rising by 4% over the past year, averaging just over $35 an hour (00:18). This sets the stage for a deeper examination of wage trends, particularly focusing on men's earnings.

Spotlight on Men's Wages

Waylon Wong introduces the episode's focus on men's wages, highlighting the importance of understanding how different subsets within this group are faring economically (00:38). The hosts aim to uncover whether cultural shifts are keeping pace with economic changes affecting men without college degrees.

Personal Perspective: Royal Pollard

Anecdotal evidence is provided through the story of Royal Pollard, a server at a Thai restaurant in New York City. Royal shares that, including tips, he earns around $35 an hour, which initially seemed satisfactory. However, he expresses concerns about price inflation eroding his wages:

“I remember buying certain pair of shoes and it would be like $90, then it's like 100, then it's like 1:15. I was like, no, I'm not, I'm not doing that. That's crazy.” (02:27)

Royal also reflects on the disappearance of well-paying jobs that didn't require a college degree, noting:

“Before you used to be able to get like, at least like a warehouse job that pays good money. Now it's not a thing. Right? Like, I mean, it's hard to come by a job like that.” (02:48)

Expert Insight: Richard Reeves on Wage Trends

To provide a comprehensive analysis, the hosts interview Richard Reeves, who discusses the nuances of wage trends among men based on education levels (03:02). Reeves emphasizes the importance of adjusting wages for inflation and differentiates between the Consumer Price Index (CPI) and the Personal Consumption Expenditures Price Index (PCE), advocating for the latter due to its ability to better account for changing spending patterns over time.

Key Findings:

• Men with a Four-Year College Degree: Wages have increased by 38% from 1979 to 2023.
• Men with Some College or an Associate's Degree: Wage growth is stagnant, with only a 3% increase.
• Men with a High School Degree: Wages have declined by 6%.
• Men with Less Than a High School Degree: Wages have declined by 11%.

Reeves highlights a class divide where men with higher education degrees have experienced significant wage growth, whereas those without such degrees have seen their wages stagnate or decline. He notes:

“The overall story is of a class gap. And so the basic story is men with a four year college degree have seen healthy wage growth. I mean, it's not quite as big as the growth that women in that group have seen.” (05:08)

Underlying Causes of Wage Stagnation

Reeves identifies several factors contributing to the economic challenges faced by men without college degrees:

1. Economic Shifts: Transition from manufacturing, steel, and mining jobs to sectors that require higher education has reduced well-paying opportunities for non-college-educated men.
2. Exclusionary Practices: Historically, certain well-paying jobs were accessible primarily to white men, often excluding workers of color, which artificially inflated wages in those sectors.
3. Union Decline and Free Trade: The erosion of unions and increased global competition have further diminished wage growth in traditional blue-collar industries.
4. Psychological Impact: Many men compare their economic status to their fathers', leading to a sense of inadequacy and economic disenfranchisement.

Reeves emphasizes the psychological toll of these economic realities:

“There are a lot of guys out there who are actually poorer than their dads, even though they've got at least as much education as their dads had.” (06:23)

Potential Solutions and Policy Recommendations

When discussing potential remedies, Reeves suggests a multifaceted approach:

1. Demand-Side Interventions:

   • Infrastructure Investment: Creating jobs in sectors like infrastructure can provide well-paying opportunities for working-class men.

2. Supply-Side Strategies:

   • Vocational Training and Apprenticeships: Enhancing access to vocational education and trade schools as viable alternatives to four-year college degrees.
   • Promoting "HEAL Jobs": Encouraging men to enter health education, administrative roles, and other literacy-based professions traditionally dominated by women.

3. Cultural Shifts:

   • Redefining Masculinity: Moving beyond the traditional role of men solely as breadwinners to encompass roles as fathers, community members, volunteers, and leaders in diverse sectors.
   • Policy and Cultural Support: Implementing policies that reinforce the value of men in various societal roles to prevent economic disenfranchisement from leading to cultural backlash.

Reeves points out the urgency of addressing both economic and cultural dimensions to prevent societal division:

“If we don't get this right, it could be the beginning of a reaction. And they think how we treat what's happening right now will determine which way we go.” (08:01)

Conclusion

The episode underscores a significant economic and social issue: men without college degrees are increasingly struggling financially compared to previous generations. Through statistics, personal narratives, and expert analysis, The Indicator highlights the urgent need for both economic policies and cultural shifts to address wage stagnation and redefine men's roles in modern society. By investing in education alternatives, infrastructure, and fostering inclusive cultural narratives, there is potential to bridge the class divide and support men in achieving economic stability and personal fulfillment.

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Notable Quotes:

• Royal Pollard (02:27):

  “I was like, no, I'm not, I'm not doing that. That's crazy.”

• Richard Reeves (05:08):

  “If we don't get this right, it could be the beginning of a reaction. And they think how we treat what's happening right now will determine which way we go.”

• Richard Reeves (07:52):

  “There are a lot of guys out there who are actually poorer than their dads, even though they've got at least as much education as their dads had.”

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This comprehensive analysis from The Indicator provides valuable insights into the economic challenges facing men without college degrees and emphasizes the need for strategic policy interventions and cultural transformations to address these disparities.

Transcript

[Waylon Wong]

Today is jobs Friday.

[Darian Woods]

That's right, we had 227,000 jobs added to the US economy in November. Now, this is a mixed picture because while unemployment ticked up a little to 4.2%, you had hourly earnings growing pretty robustly. On average, they were up 4% over the past year to just over $35 an hour.

[Waylon Wong]

So that's wages overall. And today we want to zoom in on a subset of that men's wages and salaries. We want to see how they've been doing. This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Waylon Wong.

[Darian Woods]

And I'm Darian Woods. Today on the show Men at Work, we look at the trends and we ask whether culture is keeping up with economics.

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[Darian Woods]

Royal Pollard works as a server in a Thai restaurant in New York City. And once tips are included, he says he gets $35 an hour, which he's happy with. But there's a couple of caveats with that pay.

[Royal Pollard]

I remember buying certain pair of shoes and it would be like $90, then it's like 100, then it's like 1:15. I was like, no, I'm not, I'm not doing that. That's crazy.

[Waylon Wong]

Yeah. Price inflation has been eating away at his wages. And given that eroding buying power, he wonders whether he's doing as well as his father was economically at his age.

[Royal Pollard]

Before you used to be able to get like, at least like a warehouse job that pays good money. Now it's not a thing. Right? Like, I mean, it's hard to come by a job like that.

[Darian Woods]

Royal is a man with a high school diploma and men in this group don't seem to be doing well.

[Waylon Wong]

We talked to Richard Reeves, he's the president of the American Institute for Boys and Men. We asked him, in terms of wage trends, how are men doing?

[Richard Reeves]

Honestly, with these sorts of trends, like wage trends in particular, I sometimes feel it's a bit like, you know the Groucho Marx quote about, well, these are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. It's a bit like that. In terms of wages, like, here are my wage trends for men. And if you don't like them, I have others. You could say, look, I want to show a chart showing how terribly men have been doing in the labor market. Right, Okay, I can do that for you. I want a chart showing that men's wages, especially low income men, have had great wage growth. I can produce that chart for you as well.

[Darian Woods]

Well, Richard Reeves, I have an assignment for you. I have no prior desire to show it going up or down. I just want to see what your best estimate is. What do you find?

[Richard Reeves]

So what that means is just being really clear what assumptions you've made. And so I like to use 1979 as a starting year because I think most people are interested in just what are these long term trends. As it turns out, we have really good statistics on wages starting in 1979. The second thing I would do is I'm going to say I'm going to look at men over the age of.

[Waylon Wong]

25 and when looking at those wages, Richard controls for price inflation. There are a couple ways of doing this. One is the Consumer Price Index, the cpi. The other is the Personal Consumption Expenditures Price Index, the pce. Richard prefers the PCE measure because this better accounts for changing spending patterns over time.

[Darian Woods]

Yeah, let's say apples shoot up in price, but oranges stay the same. People will switch to oranges and their quality of life is basically the same. And the PCE takes that into account faster. Now this might sound like a niche detail, but it can actually greatly change what the numbers are saying. And it has another advantage.

[Richard Reeves]

If you want to be the nerdiest nerd at the dinner table, sure, don't just ask, have you adjusted for inflation? Say, which inflation measure did you use? Of course, you might never be invited to a dinner party again.

[Darian Woods]

It's a risk I'm willing to take.

[Richard Reeves]

It's worth it, right? And then what I'm crucially going to do is I'm going to do it by education level. Because the real story here is it depends which men you're asking about. And so if I make all of those assumptions, what I find is that from 1979 to 2023, the wages of men with a four year college degree have gone up by 38%. The wages of men with some college or an associate's degree has gone up by just 3%.

[Darian Woods]

Basically stagnation, given how long it was basically flat.

[Richard Reeves]

The wages of men with a high school degree has dropped by 6%, and the wages of men with less than a high school degree has dropped by 11%. And so the overall story is of a class gap. And so the basic story is men with a four year college degree have seen healthy wage growth. I mean, it's not quite as big as the growth that women in that group have seen. They've seen even faster wage growth, but from a much lower base. Right. But for men without a four year college degree, wages have been at best flat, and for many of those, gone down. So it depends which men you're talking about. And this is the class divide that is very, very strongly shown up by the labor market statistics and are obscured by averages.

[Darian Woods]

This seems like a pretty bleak picture to me. What's behind this?

[Richard Reeves]

Well, the huge changes in the economy that we've seen, of course, mean that like many of the jobs that some of those men without a college degree would have gotten would have been in areas like manufacturing, steel, mining, et cetera, which actually paid pretty well, even though they didn't have high educational requirements because they were physically demanding, quite risky, et cetera. But also, to be honest, it's partly because in many cases those were industries from which many others were excluded. Particularly if you were a white man, you actually had access to some of these decently paid jobs. But one of the reasons they were perhaps paid even better than they would have been in a fully free market is because women were typically not welcomed into those professions. But very often workers of color weren't either. And of course, very strongly unionized, and then of course, free trade. And so we've seen a lot of these, you know, a lot of competition from abroad. And so many men, especially if they're from lower income households, they're worse off than their fathers were in terms of wages. And I think for a lot of people, they do have this intuitive sense that they're comparing themselves to how their parents were doing. I think a hard fact of American economic life now, and maybe American political life too, is that there are a lot of guys out there who are actually poorer than their dads, even though they've got at least as much education as their dads had. And I think psychologically that does have quite a big impact on people. So even if it's happened for good reasons as well as bad reasons, it doesn't change the fact that it's quite hard to be poorer than your parents.

[Darian Woods]

So I am convinced of the problem. We've got men without college degrees with at best stagnating wages overall. What are some possible solutions here?

[Richard Reeves]

Well, of course we can try and help those men do better in the labour market. And that's partly about making sure on the demand side. So infrastructure investment, for example, hugely help working class men, but also on the other side, on the supply side, thinking about much better access to vocational training and learning. I think one of the big problems we've got in the US is four year college degree is not the right path for many people, but we woefully underinvest in the alternatives. We lag at the bottom of the league table of advanced economies for apprenticeships, for example, vocational training, trade schools. That's all very important too. We've had a lot of emphasis on women into STEM jobs, science, technology, engineering and math. And I'm very interested in getting more men into what I call heal jobs, that's health education, more administrative jobs and those that require more literacy. It's not just that there aren't very many men in those traditionally female occupations, like nursing, like teaching, broader healthcare, social work, et cetera. It's that there are fewer and fewer men with every passing year. And so in teaching, for example, the share of K12 teachers that are male has dropped from 33% in the 80s to 23% today. But I would say I would even go broader than that and say we've actually got to get beyond a world where we are so narrowly defining the contribution of men in terms of the size of their paycheck. It's incredibly important that we find ways through policy and through culture to signal to men, you matter as a dad, not just as a breadwinner, you matter as a member of your community, you matter as a volunteer, as a church usher, as a scout leader, as a coach. Our tribe still needs you, even if it's in a different and new way. And that's a much bigger challenge than just economic policy. That's a cultural shift that we are only partway through. If we don't get this right, it could be the beginning of a reaction. And they think how we treat what's happening right now will determine which way we go.

[Darian Woods]

Richard Reeves, president of the American Institute for Boys and Men. This has been a fascinating discussion. Thank you so much for joining the Indicator.

[Richard Reeves]

Anytime. This was fun.

[Waylon Wong]

Before we wrap up, we just want to thank everyone who supports us by giving to your local station or by joining npr. Everything the Indicator has done this year is because of your help.

[Darian Woods]

And if you're not familiar with npr, it's a great way to hear this. And more than 25 other NPR podcasts sponsor free. There are other perks too, like bonus episodes and discounts at the NPR shop.

[Waylon Wong]

You get all that for a small recurring donation and you know you're supporting NPR's mission of creating a more informed public. Just go to plus.NPR.org for details.

[Darian Woods]

This episode was produced by Corey Bridges and engineered by Gilly Moon and Debbie Daughtry was fact checked by Sierra Juarez. Kate and Cannon edits the show and the Indicator is a production of NPR.

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