Mixing family business with US trade policy in Vietnam

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Indicator from Planet Money
Episode Title: Mixing Family Business with US Trade Policy in Vietnam
Release Date: June 17, 2025
Host/Authors: Wayland Wong and Adrienne Ma
Duration: Approximately 10 minutes

---

Introduction to the Trump-Vietnam Deal

In this episode of The Indicator from Planet Money, hosts Wayland Wong and Adrienne Ma delve into the intricate intersection of family business interests and U.S. trade policy, focusing on a notable development involving the Trump Organization in Vietnam.

Key Highlights:

• Eric Trump's Investment: Last month, Eric Trump, President Trump's son and executive vice president of the Trump Organization, visited Vietnam to break ground on a substantial $1.5 billion project. This ambitious venture includes the construction of a luxury residential development and a golf course in the Hengyan province, situated just outside Hanoi.
  [00:14] Adrienne Ma reports, "The company's building a luxury residential development and golf course in the Hengyan province, which is right outside Hanoi."

• Political Implications: The groundbreaking ceremony attracted Vietnamese Prime Minister Pha Minh Chin, who publicly stated that the golf course project aims to "help smooth Vietnam US Relations."
  [00:34] Wayland Wong adds, "This groundbreaking ceremony was important enough that Vietnamese Prime Minister Pha Minh Chin attended, and he suggested in his public remarks that this golf course project will help smooth Vietnam US Relations."

Trade Tensions and Ethical Concerns

The episode explores how this massive investment intertwines with ongoing U.S.-Vietnam trade negotiations, especially Vietnam's efforts to mitigate the impact of a steep 46% tariff rate imposed by the United States.

Key Points:

• Trade Talks: Vietnam is currently engaged in trade discussions with the U.S., aiming to prevent the imposition of high tariffs that could severely impact its economy.
  [00:47] Adrienne Ma states, "The two countries are in trade talks right now, and Vietnam is hoping to avoid a sky high 46% tariff rate."

• Ethical Red Flags: The involvement of Eric Trump’s business ventures in a country negotiating trade policies with the U.S. raises significant government ethics concerns. The blending of official policy-making with family business interests is scrutinized for potential conflicts of interest.
  [00:55] Wayland Wong remarks, "But this potential intermingling of official trade policy with Trump family business raises red flags when it comes to government ethics."

Expert Insights on Ethics in Government

Jessica Tilletman, Associate Dean at George Washington University Law School, provides a critical perspective on the ethical implications of such business-government entanglements.

Ethics Rules and Presidential Privileges:

• Scope of Ethics Regulations: In the U.S., most executive branch employees are subject to stringent ethics rules designed to prevent conflicts of interest and uphold public trust. However, these regulations notably exclude the President and Vice President.
  [04:09] Adrienne Ma explains, "In the US the majority of executive branch employees are covered by ethics rules... these rules don't apply to the president and the vice president."

• Presidential Traditions: Traditionally, Presidents employ mechanisms like blind trusts to manage their assets, ensuring that personal financial interests do not interfere with their official duties. However, Donald Trump diverged from this norm by maintaining control over his trust, enabling him to access funds at will.
  [05:17] Jessica Tilletman critiques, "There wasn't a lot of meat to it. It was kind of more of a skeletal, high level commitment to being ethical..."

• Voluntary Ethics Pledges: Under Trump's second term, a new voluntary ethics pledge was introduced, but Tilletman notes that these commitments are even less substantial, undermining trust in the administration's dedication to ethical governance.
  [05:35] Wayland Wong notes, "Flash forward to the second Trump presidency and there's a new voluntary ethics pledge."

Potential for Conflicts of Interest:

• Global Business Deals: The scale of the Trump Organization's international deals, including the $1.5 billion project in Vietnam, raises concerns about whether these ventures are influenced by the Trump family's political leverage.
  [09:03] Wayland Wong highlights, "And the numbers are much bigger, too. Hunter Biden reportedly made around $1.5 million from his artwork sales. The Trump Organization's deals around the world add up to billions of dollars."

• Comparisons to the Biden Administration: Tilletman draws parallels to Hunter Biden's business dealings, emphasizing that similar ethical questions arise when family members of high-ranking officials engage in substantial financial transactions.
  [08:48] Adrienne Ma summarizes, "Jessica flagged at the time that some people might be buying the art to influence the president."

Vietnam's Strategic Position Amid Trade Wars

Hain Nguyen, a PhD scholar at the Australian National University, provides an analysis of Vietnam's precarious position between the U.S. and China amid ongoing trade tensions.

Economic Dependencies:

• Shift from China to Vietnam: Vietnam experienced a 7% economic growth in 2024, partly due to companies like Hasbro and Apple relocating manufacturing from China to Vietnam to evade U.S. tariffs.
  [07:08] Adrienne Ma explains, "Vietnam's economy expanded 7% in 2024. It benefited from the first Trump administration's trade war with China."

• Trade Deficit with the U.S.: This shift, while boosting economic growth, has also led to a significant trade deficit with the United States, complicating the diplomatic landscape.
  [07:38] Wayland Wong mentions, "The Vietnamese government has tried to build Goodwill with the U.S.... it's also cracking down on when companies reroute products from China to Vietnam."

Government Strategies and Challenges:

• Balancing Acts: Vietnam attempts to cultivate goodwill with the U.S. by committing to purchase more American agricultural products and enforcing regulations to prevent companies from exploiting loopholes to dodge tariffs.
  [07:55] Adrienne Ma notes, "Vietnam is still under pressure. It's caught between the US And China, two economic superpowers that are at loggerheads."

• Limited Leverage: With limited bargaining power against major economies like China, Vietnam's collaboration with Trump’s business ventures is seen as a strategic gamble to navigate the trade war.
  [06:52] Hain Nguyen asserts, "Vietnam doesn't have a lot of choice."

Responses and Rebuttals

In addressing the ethical concerns, representatives from the Trump Organization and the White House offered limited responses.

• Trump Organization's Stance: The Trump Organization claims that the Vietnam project is entirely separate from the administration's policies and was initiated before Trump’s reelection.
  [09:45] Adrienne Ma reports, "The Trump Organization responded that the project has, quote, zero connection to the administration or to its policies and was signed long before Trump's reelection."

• Project Timeline Clarification: It is clarified that the project was officially signed in September 2024, situating it during Trump's second term.
  [10:02] Wayland Wong states, "For clarity, the project was signed in September 2024."

Conclusion

The episode concludes by highlighting the nuanced and potentially problematic blend of family business interests with national trade policies. The $1.5 billion project in Vietnam exemplifies the delicate balance between economic strategy and ethical governance, raising important questions about influence, transparency, and the integrity of international trade negotiations.

Closing Remarks:

• The production credits acknowledge Corey Bridges for production, Jimmy Keeley for engineering, Sarah Juarez for fact-checking, and Kate Concannon for editing.
• Notably, the episode also briefly addressed sponsored messages which were excluded from this summary for relevance.

---

This detailed analysis provides listeners and readers with a comprehensive understanding of the complex dynamics at play when familial business interests intersect with national policy-making, set against the backdrop of international trade tensions between the United States, Vietnam, and China.

Transcript

[NPR]

Npr.

[Wayland Wong]

This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Wayland Wong.

[Adrienne Ma]

And I'm Adrienne Ma. Last month, President Trump's son Eric paid a visit to Vietnam. He's an executive vice president at the family business, the Trump Organization, and Eric was in town to break ground on a $1.5 billion project. The company's building a luxury residential development and golf course in the Hengyan province, which is right outside Hanoi.

[Wayland Wong]

This groundbreaking ceremony was important enough that Vietnamese Prime Minister Pha Minh Chin attended, and he suggested in his public remarks that this golf course project will help smooth Vietnam US Relations.

[Adrienne Ma]

The two countries are in trade talks right now, and Vietnam is hoping to avoid a sky high 46% tariff rate.

[Wayland Wong]

But this potential intermingling of official trade policy with Trump family business raises red flags when it comes to government ethics. Today on the show we look at those flags and how Vietnam's difficult position in the trade war may have pushed the government to fast track a deal.

[Corey Bridges]

This message comes from Discover. Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the last 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report, this message comes from Apple Card. Somewhere in the world, an Apple Card user is getting 3% daily cash back on the purchase of an iPhone 16 at Apple. That's not all. They also earned 2% back on the new shoes they bought using Apple Pay. Visit Apple Co CardCalculator and see how much daily cash back you can earn. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and [e-mail] this message is sponsored by Udemy. Not sure if you have the experience to start your dream job? Good news. These days it's skills that count. Udemy can help you get those in demand. Skills Want to be an AI mastermind? Learn with Udemy game developer. They've got you covered. AWS certified cloud practitioner Udemy can help you prep. You'll learn from real world experts who love what they do so that you can love what you do. Go to udemy.com for the skills to get you started and get set for.

[Adrienne Ma]

Your dream job back in 2017. In the early months of the first Trump administration, Jessica Tilletman was invited by a US federal agency to lead a training session for foreign government officials. Jessica is an associate dean at the George Washington University Law School. And, and she was there to teach these foreign leaders how they could improve their ethics and anti corruption rules back home.

[Jessica Tilletman]

And they asked me about the ethics rules, and I said, well, you know, they are very strong in the United States, but they don't apply to our president or vice president. And there was laughter in the room from a country that has very significant corruption issues.

[Wayland Wong]

And it was not laughing with us. It was a laughing, laughing at us.

[Jessica Tilletman]

Just roaring with laughter.

[Wayland Wong]

And you're just standing in front of your PowerPoint like, anyway, look at how.

[Jessica Tilletman]

Strong are ethics rules. You should adopt something similar. Yeah.

[Adrienne Ma]

That'S, that's a little bit awkward, but here is what Jessica was explaining to those foreign officials. In the US the majority of executive branch employees are covered by ethics rules. These rules are less about violating the law than they are about appearances. You know, giving the impression that government officials might have a conflict of interest.

[Jessica Tilletman]

There's a wide variety of ethics rules that relate to everything from the acceptance of gifts, appearances of maybe favoritism. We're really going to things that would keep the American public from considering that their public officials might be acting in their own private interest instead of public interest.

[Wayland Wong]

And as she said, these rules don't apply to the president and the vice president. Jessica says there are a couple theories around why this is the case. One is that these leaders need more latitude. Another theory has to do with not wanting Congress to infringe on what the executive branch does.

[Adrienne Ma]

Either way, Jessica says presidents have followed a longstanding tradition to avoid conflicts of interest or the appearance of conflicts. And they've done this by putting their assets in what's called a blind trust. That means during their presidency, an independent manager controls some of their assets.

[Wayland Wong]

Trump broke with this precedent during his first term. He put his holdings in a trust that he could tap for funds whenever he wanted.

[Adrienne Ma]

And as for other ethics considerations, Trump's lawyer did publicly unveil a plan for him to avoid conflicts of interest during his first term. But Jessica says it didn't amount to much.

[Jessica Tilletman]

There wasn't a lot of meat to it. It was kind of more of a skeletal, high level commitment to being ethical with some sort of oversight and guidance frameworks put into place. We started to see in practice that these kind of overarching commitments weren't necessarily followed by.

[Wayland Wong]

Flash forward to the second Trump presidency and there's a new voluntary ethics pledge. But Jessica says the commitments are even lighter this time around, so it's harder to trust that the president is avoiding conflicts of interest.

[Jessica Tilletman]

The ethics restrictions within the United States government get to not only actual issues of concern, but appearance issues.

[Wayland Wong]

We've talked about the Trump meme coin on our show, and there's also that plane you might remember that the Trump administration accepted from Qatar and now this.

[Adrienne Ma]

$1.5 billion project in Vietnam.

[Jessica Tilletman]

Right now we have a burning red flag appearance issue. I'm sure that other countries are watching this and the biggest concern is that are certain trade deals being negotiated with the American interest in mind or with the Trump families in mind? And, you know, the goal is to not have these types of questions.

[Adrienne Ma]

The Trump Organization may also build a tower in Ho Chi Minh City. And the Vietnamese government reportedly fast tracked approvals for the golf course project.

[Wayland Wong]

Waving through this development may be Vietnam's most pragmatic option in the trade war. That's according to Hain Nguyen. She's from Vietnam and is currently a PhD scholar at Australian National University. She's researching economic security in Southeast Asia.

[NPR]

When it comes to leverage, unfortunately, Vietnam doesn't have a lot of. So we try to get close to the Trump business and the Trump family. It's definitely a gamble, but at the same time, Vietnam just doesn't have a lot of choice.

[Adrienne Ma]

Heinz says Vietnam's government sees economic growth as a crucial part of its political legitimacy. Vietnam's economy expanded 7% in 2024. It benefited from the first Trump administration's trade war with China. And that's because a lot of companies like Hasbro and Apple shifted some of their manufacturing from China to Vietnam to, you know, avoid the tariffs that were on Chinese goods. On the downside, that created a large trade deficit with the US which, as we know, the Trump administration hates.

[Wayland Wong]

The Vietnamese government has tried to build Goodwill with the U.S. it agreed to buy more American agricultural products. It's also cracking down on when companies reroute products from China to Vietnam and then label them as made in Vietnam to avoid paying those higher tariffs on Chinese goods.

[Adrienne Ma]

And despite these measures, Heinz says Vietnam is still under pressure. It's caught between the US And China, two economic superpowers that are at loggerheads.

[NPR]

Things definitely does not look good right now for Vietnam because the US Reportedly sent a list of demands that Vietnam based factory to reduce their use of materials and components from China. Vietnam's manufacturing sector is dependent on imported raw materials from regional supply chains based in China reducing or even cutting off like input materials and components. From China will cause significant damage to Vietnam's economy.

[Wayland Wong]

Ethics expert Jessica Tilletman worries that the Trump Organization may pursue more questionable deals like the one it has in Vietnam. She raised similar concerns about conflicts of interest during the Biden administration, when the president's son, Hunter, was selling artwork.

[Adrienne Ma]

Jessica flagged at the time that some people might be buying the art to influence the president. She says the concerns are even greater now because of Trump's involvement in his family business, a company that's doing deals in countries negotiating with the US Government.

[Wayland Wong]

And the numbers are much bigger, too. Hunter Biden reportedly made around $1.5 million from his artwork sales. The Trump Organization's deals around the world add up to billions of dollars.

[Jessica Tilletman]

The president of the United States holds a unique position that's able to control so many different levers within the United States government. And so, you know, for four years. Is it too much to ask any presidential family to try to take steps to reduce those concerns? I don't think that's too much to ask for such an incredible opportunity to lead the country, you know, but. But reasonable minds can disagree, and clearly the current administration disagrees with me and many other ethics experts on this point.

[Adrienne Ma]

We reached out to the Trump Organization and the White House about the ethics concerns around the Vietnam golf course. We did not hear back from the White House, but the Trump Organization responded that the project has, quote, zero connection to the administration or to its policies and was signed long before Trump's reelection.

[Wayland Wong]

For clarity, the project was signed in September 2024. This episode was produced by Corey Bridges with engineering by Jimmy Keeley. It was fact checked by Sarah Juarez. Kate Concannon is our show's editor and the indicators of production of npr.

[Corey Bridges]

This message comes from Fisher Investments. Senior Vice President Michael Hosmar reflects on one of their core values.

[Adrienne Ma]

We want to empower our clients with knowledge. In fact, Fisher is built on. That idea comes straight from our founder, Ken Fisher, who believes the more our clients understand about the plan we've built for them, the more comfortable they will be with their personal financial situation.

[Corey Bridges]

Learn [e-mail] Investing in securities involves the risk of loss. This message comes from a US Bank. Simplify how you do business with business essentials. A powerful combination of no monthly maintenance fee checking and card payment processing. Deposit products are offered by US Bank national association member fdic.

[NPR]

This message comes from Warby Parker. Prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable.

[Corey Bridges]

Glasses designed in house from premium materials starting at just $95, including prescription lenses.

[Jessica Tilletman]

Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.