More for Palantir, less for mRNA, and a disaster database redemption arc

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Indicator from Planet Money Episode: More for Palantir, less for mRNA, and a disaster database redemption arc
Release Date: August 8, 2025
Host/Author: NPR

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Introduction

In this episode of The Indicator from Planet Money, hosts Waylon Wong and Darian Woods, joined by special guest Amanda Roncik, delve into three significant economic and technological developments shaping today's landscape. The discussion navigates through Palantir's soaring sales, the health department's substantial cuts in mRNA vaccine projects, and the revival of a billion-dollar weather and climate disasters database.

Palantir’s Explosive Growth and Controversies

Amanda Roncik introduces the week's first indicator at [02:15], highlighting Palantir's impressive $1 billion sales growth in the last quarter. She attributes this surge to the company's expanding contracts with the Trump administration. To provide context, Roncik explains Palantir’s origins and core operations:

"Palantir was co-founded by Peter Thiel of PayPal fame a couple of years after 9/11. The idea was they could take similar anti-fraud software that PayPal used and apply this to combating terrorism. And so now Palantir has a few lines of work, like helping private companies with a lot of it revolves around integrating data sets from around government departments, mostly for intelligence and the military." (02:39)

The hosts humorously critique the ominous naming of Palantir’s software:

Waylon Wong: "These names get darker and darker. Why couldn't they have called it Palantir Pleasantville, Palantir Whoville?" (03:08)

Roncik details Palantir’s key product, Palantir Gotham, used extensively by intelligence agencies and police forces to track and predict individual movements. She cites CEO Alex Karp's statement from an earnings call:

"Palantir is here to disrupt and make our institutions... and when it's necessary to scare enemies." (03:17)

Despite Palantir’s valuation soaring to approximately $420 billion—outpacing giants like Johnson & Johnson and Home Depot—analysts express skepticism regarding the sustainability of such a high valuation relative to its $1 billion quarterly revenue:

Waylon Wong: "I mean, I'll say that's a huge gulf between revenue and this valuation." (04:56)

Health Department’s $500 Million Cut in mRNA Vaccine Projects

Transitioning to the second indicator, Darian Woods reveals a significant $500 million cut by the health department from 22 mRNA vaccine projects (05:05). This decision marks a substantial shift in governmental support for mRNA technology development, a field that gained prominence during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Woods provides a brief historical overview of mRNA vaccines, emphasizing their rapid development and impact:

Darian Woods: "In just months, a vaccine is created and it's tested and it starts being prod. If you still have a vaccine card tucked in a drawer somewhere and you have the Pfizer Biontech or the Moderna vaccine, that is an mRNA vaccine." (05:34)

Amanda Roncik adds that mRNA vaccines were a cornerstone of Operation Warp Speed, a public-private partnership aimed at accelerating vaccine development, which ultimately saved millions of lives and earned two researchers the Nobel Prize in 2023.

However, the recent funding cuts, as explained by Woods, reflect ongoing debates about the efficacy and future of mRNA vaccines:

Darian Woods: "Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Isn't investing health department money in vaccine development anymore?... He just says he's cutting the funding for mRNA vaccines. He says that the mRNA vaccines fail to protect effectively against upper respiratory infections like Covid and flu. And sure, these vaccines are not perfect, people do still get sick. But the idea that they fail to protect effectively is simply not true." (07:03 – 07:17)

The Billion-Dollar Weather and Climate Disasters Database Redemption Arc

Waylon Wong presents his indicator at [07:36], focusing on the billion-dollar weather and climate disasters database managed by NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration). The database, which records extreme weather events in the U.S. incurring at least $1 billion in damages, had been retired in 2024 but is now being resurrected by Climate Central with the expertise of Adam Smith, the original architect.

Amanda Roncik playfully compares the scale of the database funding to Palantir’s revenue:

Amanda Roncik: "So it's a database of disasters that cost as much as 1/4 of Palantir revenue." (08:09)

Wong elaborates on the challenges faced in redeveloping the database:

Darian Woods: "It's pretty complicated landscape to redevelop something like this. It's certainly not straightforward, but that's where we are right now with sounds like it is not that simple." (09:10)

The team discusses the comprehensive nature of the database, which aggregates data from over a dozen public and private sources, including the U.S. Department of Agriculture and insurance companies. This aggregation allows for detailed tracking of damages across various sectors like homes, vehicles, forests, and electricity grids.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with reflections on the interconnectedness of government contracts, public health funding, and environmental data management. The hosts express appreciation for the updates and insights provided by Amanda Roncik and each other, emphasizing the importance of understanding these economic indicators to make sense of broader societal trends.

Darian Woods: "Thanks for the update, Waylon. I feel like I just live here in the indicator all the time and I can just... Thank you." (09:53)

Notable Quotes

• Amanda Roncik on Palantir’s Valuation:
  "It's now valued in the stock market at about $420 billion, which is among the very top echelon of companies in the US—it's more than Johnson and Johnson. It's more than Home Depot. It's more than Bank of America." (04:27)

• Darian Woods on mRNA Vaccine Funding Cut:
  "He just says he's cutting the funding for mRNA vaccines. He says that the mRNA vaccines fail to protect effectively against upper respiratory infections like Covid and flu. And sure, these vaccines are not perfect, people do still get sick. But the idea that they fail to protect effectively is simply not true." (07:03 – 07:17)

• Waylon Wong on Disaster Database Funding:
  "It's a database of disasters that cost as much as 1/4 of Palantir revenue." (08:09)

Key Takeaways

• Palantir’s Growth: The company has experienced significant revenue growth through government contracts, particularly with defense and intelligence agencies. However, its lofty market valuation raises questions among analysts regarding its long-term financial sustainability.

• mRNA Vaccine Funding: The health department's $500 million cut from mRNA projects underscores the ongoing debates about vaccine efficacy and future investment directions in public health.

• Disaster Data Revival: The rejuvenation of NOAA’s billion-dollar disaster database by Climate Central represents a crucial step in enhancing the tracking and management of extreme weather events, reflecting a broader commitment to addressing climate change impacts.

This comprehensive discussion offers listeners a nuanced understanding of these pivotal issues, highlighting the intricate balance between government roles, private sector innovation, and public welfare.

Transcript

[Darian Woods]

Npr.

[Waylon Wong]

This is the Indicator from Planet Money. I'm Waylon Wong here with Darian Woods.

[Amanda Roncik]

Hello.

[Waylon Wong]

Hello. And darkening, nay, brightening the indicator's doorstep is the astonishing Amanda Roncik.

[Darian Woods]

I was like darkening. I only bring lightness and joy.

[Waylon Wong]

It's Jo True.

[Amanda Roncik]

Amanda, you have delighted us at quite an opportune moment because right now, on this day, at this very second is.

[Waylon Wong]

Indicator of the Week.

[Darian Woods]

What? I had no idea that that's why I was here. A surprise.

[Waylon Wong]

Well, I hope you brought an indicator because on today's episode we have Palantir.

[Darian Woods]

Sales soar, the health department cuts more.

[Waylon Wong]

And for a billion dollar database, a new home is in.

[Amanda Roncik]

That's all after the break.

[Jo True]

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[Darian Woods]

Darian, it is Indicators of the Week. What is your indicator?

[Amanda Roncik]

My indicator is $1 billion. That's how much sales the data company Palantir made over the last quarter. It's quite a big increase.

[Darian Woods]

That's a lot of make a billion dollars this week.

[Amanda Roncik]

So a lot of this growth comes from Paler's growing contracts with the Trump administration. And to understand what it's doing there, I'll explain what Palantir does as a company.

[Darian Woods]

That would be helpful because I feel like I kind of know, but I don't really know.

[Amanda Roncik]

So Palantir was co founded by Peter Thiel of PayPal fame a couple of years after 9 11. The idea was they could take similar anti fraud software that PayPal used and apply this to combating terrorism. And so now Palantir has a few lines of work, like helping private companies with a But a lot of it revolves around integrating data sets from around government departments, mostly for intelligence and the military. A big one for the company is software called Palantir Gotham.

[Waylon Wong]

These names get darker and darker. Why couldn't they have called it Palantir Pleasantville, Palantir Whoville?

[Amanda Roncik]

It's a mix of Lord of the Rings and Batman. You know what kind of literature these people are reading. And it tracks people and predicts where they might go. It's not only used by intelligence agencies, but also police forces. And as for what that means, I'll let CEO Alex Karp speak for himself. Here's what he said in an earnings call earlier this year. Palantir is here to disrupt and make our institutions.

[Darian Woods]

We partner with the very best in the world.

[Amanda Roncik]

And when it's necessary to scare enemies.

[Darian Woods]

And on occasion, kill them, like actually kill them. What are we talking about here?

[Amanda Roncik]

Oh, well, a lot of it's used for the Defense Department. So that is what the software end uses a lot of the time. And about the business that's grown under the Trump administration, one controversial project is a $30 million contract to build a database that sifts through immigration and criminal records to target, monitor in near real time and help deport people the government wants to remove.

[Darian Woods]

Ah, yes, I have seen. NPR reporter Bobby Allen has reported on Bunch. If you want to hear more, you can go to his reporting, too.

[Amanda Roncik]

Yeah, and contracts like these have contributed to Palantir's growing valuation. It's now valued in the stock market at about $420 billion, which is among the very top echelon of companies in the US it's more than Johnson and Johnson. It's more than Home Depot. It's more than bank of America. So its earning growth has been impressive. But a lot of analysts are warning that only a billion dollars in quarterly revenue isn't enough to justify a massive $420 billion valuation.

[Waylon Wong]

I mean, I'll say that's a huge gulf between revenue and this valuation. Speaking of a huge gulf of money, Amanda, what's your indicator?

[Darian Woods]

That segues nicely into my indicator of the week, which is going to be a cut of $500 million. That is what the health department just cut from 22 projects that focus on MRNA vaccines.

[Waylon Wong]

MRNA vaccines. You are really taking me back to 2020, Amanda.

[Darian Woods]

Yes. I'm gonna give you a little flashback. I promise to make it very quick. I don't wanna trigger anybody. April 2020, COVID 19 is spreading around the world. People are like, ah, if only we had a vaccine.

[Amanda Roncik]

Definitely remember feeling that way.

[Darian Woods]

I think we all felt that way. And at that point in time, MRNA science was a few decades old. COVID 19 hits. It's time to give this new technology a proper run. And then like, oh my goodness, there are some vaccines that are made unbelievably fast, faster than ever before. In just months, a vaccine is created and it's tested and it starts being prod. If you still have a vaccine card tucked in a drawer somewhere and you have the Pfizer Biontech or the Moderna vaccine, that is an MRNA vaccine.

[Waylon Wong]

Oh, I do have my card. Remember when you'd be like, which one did you get? You know?

[Darian Woods]

Yes, I know. It was a little competitive. So those were the MRNA vaccines.

[Waylon Wong]

Uh huh.

[Darian Woods]

They came out at different times and like this all happened under the first Trump administration. It was part of what was called Operation Warp Speed, which was this public private partnership with big pharmaceutical companies.

[Amanda Roncik]

And ultimately those vaccines saved millions of lives. Two of the researchers won the Nobel Prize in 2023.

[Jo True]

Right.

[Darian Woods]

So this was a very big deal. Flashback over. Now, generally big pharmaceutical companies do not want to make vaccines for diseases that only might go full pandemic or full outbreak. And this is why historically, vaccine development is slow and insufficient when it's just like left up to the free market. And that's why the government was still investing 500 million in research to develop new vaccines for things like another Covid, a flu, maybe a bird flu.

[Waylon Wong]

So does this mean that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Isn't investing health department money in vaccine development anymore?

[Darian Woods]

No, he still says he is in this case. He just says he's cutting the funding for MRNA vaccines. He says that the MRNA vaccines fail to protect effectively against upper respiratory infections like Covid and flu. And sure, these vaccines are not perfect, people do still get sick. But the idea that they fail to protect effectively is simply not true. I hope that wasn't too much of a bummer for everybody. Waylon, what is your indicator?

[Waylon Wong]

Well, my indicator is going to sound a lot like Darian's indicator. It's $1 billion. I'm not here to talk about Palantir.

[Amanda Roncik]

That's not often that that happens.

[Waylon Wong]

I know, right? But my billion dollars refers to the billion dollar weather and climate disasters database. This is of extreme weather events in the US that hit at least $1 billion in costs or damages. And it was part of NOAA. That's the national oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Indicator. Listeners might remember we did an episode on this database back in June.

[Amanda Roncik]

Interesting. So it's a database of disasters that cost as much as 1/4 of Palantir revenue.

[Waylon Wong]

Someone should like make a little graph, but. Yeah, yeah.

[Darian Woods]

Or twice as much as there was in funding for MRNA vaccines.

[Waylon Wong]

Yeah, exactly.

[Amanda Roncik]

So this is because the federal government retired the database. You can still see old data on the ENOA website, but it hasn't been updated past 2024.

[Waylon Wong]

Right. And at the time we spoke with the database's architect, Adam Smith. He is a climatologist and he had taken the government buyout.

[Darian Woods]

It's just hard and strange and I still, it. It still feels bizarre frankly.

[Waylon Wong]

But guess what? I am here with an update on this billion dollar database. It's being brought out of retirement by a called Climate Central and they have hired Adam Smith. Climate Central told us they are excited that he's now on board and that he'll be bringing back the database.

[Amanda Roncik]

I remember that Adam told us he was hoping to keep the work going with a non profit or a private company.

[Waylon Wong]

Yeah, this is what he said at the time.

[Darian Woods]

It's pretty complicated landscape to redevelop something like this. It's certainly not straightforward, but that's where we are right now with sounds like it is not that simple. You can't just copy and paste the data from one website to another. Although I don't know, maybe you could like what does he actually have to do to put the database back together?

[Waylon Wong]

Yeah. So Adam's team at NOAA had pulled in data from over a dozen public and private sources. So you had like the US Department of Agriculture and insurance companies. And that's because they were tallying up damages from natural disasters. And so they went around, you know, tabulating the value of homes and vehicles and forests and electricity grids. Like it really runs the gam the numbers from a lot of places.

[Darian Woods]

Well that is super interesting that this like kind of orphaned government data has now found a new home. Thanks for the update, Waylon. Do I get to say that? Thanks for the update, Waylon. I feel like I just like live here in the indicator all the time and I can just. Thank you. Thanks for being on my show guys. It's great. It's wonderful to have you here both.

[Amanda Roncik]

This episode was produced by Angel Carreras with engineering by Kwesi Lee. It was fact checked by Cyril Juarez and Cooper Katz McKim. Kate Kincannon edits the show and the indicator is a production of npr.

[Jo True]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Charles Schwab with its original podcast on investing. Each week you'll get thoughtful in depth analysis of both the stock and the bond markets. Listen today and [e-mail] oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bobby Allen]

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Prolon. Want to look and feel your best this summer? Don't just think skin deep, think cell deep. The goal of Prolon's five day nutrition program is to rejuvenate you at the cellular level with boxes labeled by day so you know exactly what to eat. Based on their clinical study, Prolon aims to trigger a fasting state while you eat. Prolon is the future of Nutrition. Get 15% off when you [e-mail] NPR this message comes from Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right. They offer premium wireless plans for less and all plans include high speed data, unlimited talk and text, and nationwide coverage. See for [e-mail] Switch.