No AI data centers in my backyard!

Summary

Podcast Summary: "No AI data centers in my backyard!"

Podcast: The Indicator from Planet Money (NPR)
Date: October 22, 2025
Hosts: Darian Woods, with guest reporter Dustin Dwyer (Michigan Public)
Theme:
This episode dives into the growing grassroots opposition to AI data centers in small communities, focusing on a heated township meeting in Michigan. It explores local concerns about water and electricity consumption, community benefits (or lack thereof), and how this resistance could reshape the data center industry across the U.S.

---

Main Discussion Points

1. The Pavilion Township Showdown (02:33 – 03:50)

• Setting the Scene:
  Dustin Dwyer recounts attending a packed planning commission meeting in Pavilion Township, MI, over a proposed zoning amendment for data centers. “The place was packed” (02:55), far exceeding expectations for a usually sleepy government affair.
• Unified Community Opposition:
  There was no organizing group—just organic, unified resistance among community members.
  “We are not all on the same side of a lot of issues. We're all here on the same side of this one because we all know that we can't live for seven days without drinkable water.” — Elizabeth Clark, local resident (03:50)
• Key Concern – Water Usage:
  Residents voiced fears about the massive daily water demands of data centers for cooling, and the lack of explicit restrictions in the proposal.

2. Broader Context: The Data Center Boom (04:02 – 05:20)

• Local vs. National Trends:
  Data centers have typically clustered in areas with cheap power (Northern Virginia, Texas, Arizona) but are now targeting new territories, including Michigan, spurred by enormous economic incentives.
• Government Incentives:
  Michigan's governor and others are courting data center investment for potential tax revenue—and the surge of AI has only inflamed demand.
• Community Skepticism of Economic Benefits:
  Some residents, like David Sotin, challenge the promised upsides:
  “For the people in this room, the community that lives here, there is no reward for this. It doesn't bring jobs. It only brings issues. It won't bring tourism. It won't bring jobs. It brings nothing.” (04:52)
  Darian Woods pushes back: there is some local tax revenue and short-term construction jobs, but research questions if benefits outweigh the negatives long-term.

3. The Scope and Risks of AI Data Centers (06:07 – 07:18)

• Resource Strain:
  John Paver, a tech-savvy local, points to a Michigan utility potentially powering a future 1 gigawatt data center—about as much as 750,000 homes.
  “There's no city in Michigan that is that large.” — Planning Commission Chair (06:21)
• Transparency and Fairness:
  Residents want companies to bring forward more community-benefiting proposals, not just extract resources.
  “Y'all gotta come up with better proposals that benefit the community and not yourselves directly. Because right now it seems it is far too one sided.” — John Paver (06:58)

4. Regulatory and Economic Pushback (07:18 – 08:32)

• Local & Regulatory Barriers:
  Over $64 billion in new data center investment has faced blocking or delays nationwide due to local opposition. (07:18)
  Utility regulators in Michigan are creating new rate structures to prevent residents from footing the bill if a data center fails.
• Risk of Overbuilding:
  With so many projects in play, experts voice concern about a possible overinflated market bubble.

5. What’s Next for Data Centers? (08:32 – End)

• Possible Industry Shifts:
  Historically, companies have prioritized speed—“You get the data center up and running as fast as possible…” (08:32)
  Darian wonders if local pushback could “really kill this AI data center boom nationwide?” (08:40)
• Expert Insight:
  “I don’t think development will grind to a halt. There's too many economic reasons for it, at least in the near term, for it to grind to a halt.” — Vijay Gaddupati, MIT's Lincoln Laboratory (09:01)
• Efficiency Over Expansion:
  With new challenges, companies may prioritize optimizing existing centers over relentless new builds.
  “Now that there is some pushback … I think that math is starting to shift again, where people are like, okay, well, let's just look at the existing asset and can we get more out of it?” — Vijay Gaddupati (09:32)

---

Memorable Quotes

• Elizabeth Clark (Resident):
  “We all know that we can’t live for seven days without drinkable water.” (03:50)
• David Sotin (Resident):
  “It doesn't bring jobs. It only brings issues. It won't bring tourism. It won't bring jobs. It brings nothing.” (04:52)
• Planning Commission Chair:
  “This facility will use as much energy as 750,000 homes. There's no city in Michigan that is that large.” (06:21)
• John Paver (Tech-savvy Resident):
  “Y'all gotta come up with better proposals that benefit the community and not yourselves directly.” (06:58)
• Vijay Gaddupati (MIT Lincoln Lab):
  “I don’t think development will grind to a halt. There's too many economic reasons for it, at least in the near term… Now that there is some pushback on construction ... I think that math is starting to shift again.” (09:01, 09:32)

---

Key Timestamps

• 02:33 — Setting: Packed township meeting, feeling of grassroots urgency
• 03:26 — Water concerns raised by Elizabeth Clark
• 04:52 — David Sotin voices skepticism about community benefits
• 06:07 — John Paver discusses astronomical electricity needs
• 07:18 — Discussion turns to national opposition trends and regulatory pushback
• 08:32 — Darian and Dustin discuss possible industry slowdowns
• 09:01, 09:32 — Expert (Vijay Gaddupati) on adaptation: industry likely to optimize existing centers more

---

Tone and Takeaways

• Tone: Thoughtful, energetic, local voices balanced with industry and expert perspectives.
• Takeaway:
  The AI data center boom faces unexpectedly stiff resistance at the community level, especially over environmental resources and perceived local benefits. While this won’t stop the economic and technological forces behind the expansion, it’s likely to drive tech companies toward greater efficiency and community engagement moving forward.

For listeners, this episode conveys how even cutting-edge, globally minded technologies face immediate and visceral pushback when their impacts land in local backyards.

Transcript

[Vijay Gaddupati]

Npr.

[Darian Woods]

This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Darian woods and today Dustin Dwyer is joining us from member station Michigan Public. Hey, Dustin.

[Dustin Dwyer]

Hey, Darian. So look, I wanted to tell you about this meeting I went to not that long ago. It was a planning commission meeting for a little place called Pavilion Township, Michigan.

[NPR Announcer]

Okay.

[Darian Woods]

Haven't heard of that town before.

[Dustin Dwyer]

Yeah, you know, I hadn't actually either, even though I live like about an hour away. But so at the meeting, what they were going to talk about was a zoning ordinance amendment to allow data centers.

[Darian Woods]

Yeah, there's a lot of data center talk at the moment.

[Dustin Dwyer]

Yeah, because they're such a huge factor in the economy right now.

[Darian Woods]

These are the massive buildings filled with the computers to power all these new AI models.

[Dustin Dwyer]

And it turns out data centers are a new hot button issue in local government. So I went to this meeting expecting just like a boring little discussion about this zoning amendment, but it was not. The place was packed.

[Planning Commission Chair]

All right, we call the meeting to order.

[Darian Woods]

So these people, they're all against the data center?

[Dustin Dwyer]

Yeah, all of them.

[Darian Woods]

All right. Well, today on the show, the local pushback to the data centers and how it might actually force tech companies to adapt.

[Sponsor Announcer]

This message comes from Mint mobile. Starting at $15 a month, make the [e-mail] Switch $45 upfront payment for 3 months. 5 gigabyte plan equivalent to $15 a month. Taxes and fees extra first 3 months only. See terms.

[NPR Announcer]

This message comes from LinkedIn ads. One of the hardest parts about B2B marketing is reaching the right audience. That's why you need LinkedIn ads. You can target your buyers by job title, company role, seniority and skills or the professionals you need to reach in one place. Get a $250 credit on your next campaign so you can try it yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com nprpod that's LinkedIn.com nprpod Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads.

[Sponsor Announcer]

This message comes from Amazon Business. How can you grow your business from idea to industry leader? Bring your vision to life with smart business buying tools and technology from Amazon Business. Simplify how you stock up to get ahead. Go to amazonbusiness.com for support.

[Darian Woods]

So, Dustin, we're at this meeting in Pavilion Township, Michigan, and it's full.

[Dustin Dwyer]

Yeah, it's a very small building, small room. And the head of the planning commission was starting to get worried. So if any more people show up for this, we're going to have to adjourn and then re notice it for.

[Planning Commission Chair]

A bigger space because we're at limit now for capacity.

[Darian Woods]

And so is somebody leading the opposition here?

[Dustin Dwyer]

No, there wasn't, like, a group that organized this response. This was just people from the community. And it's a small community. Only a little over 6,000 people live here. But when it comes to data centers, they are united.

[Elizabeth Clark]

It's great to see community coming together.

[Dustin Dwyer]

This is Elizabeth Clark, and when she gets up to talk, she asks people to raise their hands if they live within 10 miles of here. And most people do. And Clark says, for her, this is actually about water.

[Darian Woods]

Right. Because data centers can use a lot of water, like hundreds of thousands to millions of gallons a day. As much as a city?

[Dustin Dwyer]

Yeah, it depends on the design of the data center, but the water is mostly used for cooling the computers. And Michigan has a lot of water. We're surrounded by the Great Lakes. But folks here are concerned that the proposal does not forbid using the community's drinking water.

[Elizabeth Clark]

We are not all on the same side of a lot of issues. We're all here on the same side of this one because we all know that we can't live for seven days without drinkable water.

[Darian Woods]

And so Michigan isn't like a hotspot for data centers. A lot of the action we've seen in Northern Virginia, also Texas, Arizona, and Nebraska.

[Dustin Dwyer]

Yeah, there are definitely clusters, places that have cheaper power, lots of land, or just lots of data centers already nearby.

[NPR Announcer]

But.

[Dustin Dwyer]

But there are people who've been trying to push more data centers in Michigan, including our governor, because of the investment, the tax revenues that can flood in from a massive data center. And the demand for the AI data centers is just so big right now that the proposals are showing up everywhere, including more proposals in places that weren't at the center before, places like Michigan. But the people here are not sure it's worth it. And at the meeting, this one guy, David Sotin, raised another community concern. He said it's all risk, no benefits.

[David Sotin]

So for the people in this room, the community that lives here, there is no reward for this. It doesn't bring jobs. It only brings issues. It won't bring tourism. It won't bring jobs. It brings nothing.

[Darian Woods]

Sounds like it's exaggerating a little bit. You know, tax revenue can bring in a lot of money. I've seen some places using that to pay for local services. And it's not true there are no jobs. There are jobs, at least initially, during the construction of the data center.

[Dustin Dwyer]

Right, initially. Although it is worth mentioning, there's some research out there that these benefits don't always outweigh the downsides. Either way, the potential benefits are what's pushing data centers forward in a lot of communities. But what it seems like now in places like Pavilion Township and many other places is the size and scale and resource requirements are just really sinking in for nearby residents.

[Planning Commission Chair]

It's kind of, it's an AI gold rush right now.

[Dustin Dwyer]

After this meeting, I met up with John Paver, who'd been very vocal. He actually lives in the next township over and he's not against AI. He uses it and I'm not saying just for like ChatGPT to write an email. He told me he used a program called Cursor AI to code a video game for him. So this guy is in deep.

[Planning Commission Chair]

Okay.

[Dustin Dwyer]

Yeah. So he pointed out that one of the state's big utility companies, CMS Energy, has recently announced plans to provide power to a data center that will use 1 gigawatt of electricity, which is a lot.

[Planning Commission Chair]

This facility will use as much energy as 750,000 homes. There's no city in Michigan that is that large.

[Dustin Dwyer]

And I will say it's not confirmed yet where this 1 GW data center is going to be located. It's not necessarily Paphilion Township. And when I asked the utility, CMS Energy, Consumers Energy about it, they said they wouldn't disclose the location of this site or who they're even building it for. But for Paver, he's not saying no, absolutely not. No data centers. He just wants to see more from the developers, really.

[Planning Commission Chair]

Y' all gotta come up with better proposals that benefit the community and not yourselves directly. Because right now it seems it is far too one sided. And you're not gonna convince anybody to give these companies tax breaks and tax incentives for them to come in and just use up the natural resources. You know, that doesn't even pass the common sense test.

[Darian Woods]

And so this is becoming a more popular take all around the country and not just your neck of the woods. According to the group Data center watch, more than $64 billion in data center investment over the past year was blocked or delayed nationwide because of local opposition.

[Dustin Dwyer]

Yeah, and here in Michigan, just in the past couple of months, at least three local communities have had significant pushback against data centers coming in. And it's not just that, because also utility regulators are starting to impose these new rate structures on data centers because there's this concern that the utilities will build out infrastructure to feed power to the data center and the data center could just go belly up in a couple of years. And that would Leave regular ratepayers, just their local residents, to pay for all of those utility upgrades that happened. And so they're imposing these new structures so that local residents won't get stuck with these costs.

[Darian Woods]

Huh. And that is a realistic concern because there's just so many data centers being built. And as we discussed last week, there could be some inflated demand here, AKA a potential bubble. So this makes me wonder how much this pushback is going to affect new projects across the board.

[Dustin Dwyer]

Right, because until now, it's all just been about speed. You get the data center up and running as fast as possible, put the servers in and go.

[Darian Woods]

So the local opposition could stop individual projects. It could slow down the overall build out. But could it really kill this AI data center boom nationwide?

[Dustin Dwyer]

Well, maybe not, but it could change the approach companies might take to data centers. According to Vijay Gaddupati, who's at MIT's Lincoln Laboratory, and he runs a couple.

[Vijay Gaddupati]

Of startups, I don't think development will grind to a halt. There's too many economics reasons for it, at least in the near term, for it to grind to a halt.

[Darian Woods]

The consulting firm McKinsey & Co. Has estimated that companies will spend $7 trillion globally over the next five years building out data centers.

[Dustin Dwyer]

Yeah, and Vijay says the way data centers have been going up, there hasn't been a lot of reason for companies to really be efficient with the way they're using all those computers inside the data center.

[Vijay Gaddupati]

Now that there is some pushback on construction and, you know, either it's becoming more difficult to get new builds or it's becoming more expensive, I think that math is starting to shift again, where people are like, okay, well, let's just look at the existing asset and can we get more out of it?

[Darian Woods]

Okay, so one result of all this pushback, he thinks, is that the people running the data centers that already exist will start running them more efficiently.

[Dustin Dwyer]

Yeah, that's his take. He sees a lot of opportunity to squeeze out a lot more computational power out of the data centers that already exist. The alternative is more of what we've seen so far. A lot of these hyperscale data centers have started bringing in their own temporary power, like natural gas generators and fuel cells.

[Darian Woods]

And that probably would not go well in places like Pavilion Township either.

[Dustin Dwyer]

No, it definitely, definitely would not.

[Darian Woods]

This episode was produced by Julia Ritchie with engineering by Koh Takasugi Chernifen. It was fact checked by Sierra Juarez. Kate Concannon edits the show and the indicator is a production of NPR support.

[NPR Announcer]

For NPR and the following message come from Edward Jones what does it mean to live a rich life? Maybe it's full of brave first leaps, tearful goodbyes and everything in between. And with over a hundred years of experience, your Edward Jones Financial advisor can help. Edward Jones Member, SIPC this message comes from Mint Mobile. At Mint Mobile their favorite word is no. No contracts, no monthly bills, no hidden fees. Plans start at $15 a month. Make the [e-mail] switch that's mintmobile.com switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5GB plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first 3 months only then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. This message comes from Bombas. You need better socks and slippers and underwear because you should love what you wear every day. One purchased equals one donated. Go to bombus.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off.