Take a penny, leave a penny, get rid of the penny

Summary

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Podcast Summary

The Indicator from Planet Money

Episode: Take a penny, leave a penny, get rid of the penny
Date: December 8, 2025
Hosts: Darian Woods & Waylon Wong

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the end of the U.S. penny’s 232-year run, tracing its cultural and economic journey from ubiquity in American life to obsolescence in the wake of rising production costs and waning demand. The hosts speak to a range of voices impacted by the penny—from a former Director of the U.S. Mint to an artist who builds massive sculptures from the coins—offering a heartfelt and insightful tribute as America bids farewell to its smallest denomination.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Penny's Cultural Imprint and Demise

• Waylon Wong introduces the penny as a ubiquitous fixture in American life—found in couches, cars, fountains, junk drawers, and even, remarkably, on Mars ([00:14]).

• Christina Shutt (Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum) shares that Lincoln’s image has graced the penny since 1909, making him the first U.S. president featured on a circulating coin ([00:34]).

  "If the one thing...some other life form knows about us is Abraham Lincoln, like, that's a pretty good representation of what's the best of us, right?"
  — Unknown Host ([00:56])

• The U.S. government minted the final batch of pennies last month. While 300 billion pennies are still in circulation—about $9 for every American—their official production has ended ([01:23]).

2. Economic Pressures behind the End

• The U.S. Mint’s mandate is to meet public demand for coins at no cost to taxpayers, ideally making a profit (seigniorage), which helps fund the Treasury ([03:53]).

• Ed Moy, U.S. Mint Director (2006–2011), recounts how the cost to produce a penny exceeded its value for the first time in 2006 (1.4 cents per penny). Base metal prices made even alternatives like steel uneconomical ([04:42]).

  "So I would give you a penny for your thoughts, except that pennies are worth 4 cents, so you're getting a bonus."
  — Ed Moy ([02:59])

• By Moy’s departure in 2011, producing a penny cost 2.4 cents; by the time of the final minting, the cost had escalated to 3.7 cents per penny ([06:28]).

  "We have enough pennies. It's time to end the production of pennies."
  — Ed Moy ([06:39])

• In the broader budget context, the annual loss from penny production ($80 million) was trivial: “a rounding error of a rounding error in the federal government.” ([05:29])

3. Pennies in Art and Memory

• Robert Wexler, an artist, has worked with the penny for over 20 years, most recently completing a cube sculpture made from 100,000 notched and interlocked pennies ([07:01]).

  "I just finished 100,000 Penny Cube... I was worried that the penny would be canceled and removed from currency before I finished..."
  — Robert Wexler ([07:13])

• Wexler orders pennies in bulk, causing logistical headaches for his bank—evidence of the coin’s changing status from currency to curiosity ([08:01]).

• Despite their humble origins and grimy journeys, Wexler finds beauty in pennies’ transformations—turning blue, green, orange, red, or black with age ([08:25]):

  "They're these, like, lowly gutter things...but that has this incredible effect in that they do turn blue and green, but they also turn, like, these spectacular oranges and reds or these really lovely waxy blacks. And it's so unique and special and just—it's like a little world."
  — Robert Wexler ([08:25])

4. What Happens to the Remaining Pennies?

• For many, unused pennies gather dust. Ed Moy collects them in jars before depositing them at the bank ([09:05]).

• At the Lincoln Museum, volunteers scatter thousands of pennies for children to find, using the coin as an educational tool that keeps Lincoln’s memory alive ([09:05]).

  "So it's really cute seeing kids...running around the plaza looking for the penny...then they get an opportunity to talk about how Lincoln really is everywhere."
  — Christina Shutt ([09:18])

• Ironically, though, the museum gift shop no longer accepts pennies ([09:37]).

5. The Future: The Nickel Under Threat?

• With the penny gone, the nickel is now under scrutiny: It cost nearly 14 cents to produce one in the previous year—more than double its face value ([09:44]).

  "Yeah, last year it cost the mint close to 14 cents to produce a nickel. That's more than double its face value. So I don't know, maybe we'll do a nickel obit next year."
  — Waylon Wong ([09:48])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I started manning the cash register at age 10...that began kind of a lifelong interest in the coin area...Little did I know that fast forward 40 years later, I would become director of the United States Mint."
  — Ed Moy ([03:30])

• "It's a rounding error of a rounding error in the federal government."
  — Ed Moy, on the penny's $80M loss, compared to the $7T+ budget ([05:29])

• "I was worried that the penny would be canceled and removed from currency before I finished [my art piece] because if I finished the piece after that, it would be nothing but a memorial to the penny..."
  — Robert Wexler ([07:25])

• "They're these, like, lowly gutter things...it's like a little world."
  — Robert Wexler ([08:25])

• "How about nickels? I hear these lose even more money now than the penny did."
  — Darian Woods ([09:44])

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Important Timestamps

• 00:14 — Introduction to the ubiquity and cultural relevance of the penny.
• 01:23 — The penny’s final production and ongoing circulation.
• 02:56 — Ed Moy joins to discuss his experience at the Mint.
• 04:42 — The turning point: penny production cost surpasses face value.
• 05:29 — The negligible impact of penny losses on the federal budget.
• 06:28 — The decision to cease minting pennies.
• 07:01 — Robert Wexler describes his penny cube art.
• 09:05 — Current afterlives of the penny.
• 09:44 — Nickels face a similar fate as their production cost soars.

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Tone & Style

The episode presents a light, conversational tone laced with humor (notably penny jokes) and nostalgia, balanced by insightful economic analysis and a touch of artful wonder. The speakers celebrate the end of the penny with both thoughtful consideration and playful banter.

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Transcript

[Unknown Host]

Npr.

[Darian Woods]

This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Darian Woods.

[Waylon Wong]

And I'm Waylon Wong. Pennies are everywhere. They're between our couch cushions and on the floor of our cars. They're in fountains and junk drawers. And there's even a penny on Mars.

[Unknown Host]

If there is like, other life out there, that's the thing, maybe, that they would find about the United States.

[Waylon Wong]

Christina Shutt is the executive director of the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum in Springfield, Illinois. And if some alien were to pick up that penny on Mars, it would be holding an artifact from 1909. That's the year that the penny's design was changed to put Abraham Lincoln on it. And fun fact, he was the first American president to be put on a circulating coin.

[Unknown Host]

If the one thing that you know, some other life form knows about us is Abraham Lincoln, like, that's a pretty good representation of what's the best of us, right? And so, I don't know, that's kind of cool to me.

[Darian Woods]

So the penny with its image of Lincoln has made it all the way to outer space. But it has also reached a different kind of final frontier. Last month, the US Government minted the very last penny.

[Waylon Wong]

There are still around 300 billion pennies in circulation. That's almost nine bucks for every person in the U.S. but the coin's 232 year run is coming to an end. On today's show, we trace the pennies long decline and pay tribute to this humble bit of American currency.

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[Darian Woods]

We wanted to talk to somebody who was there when the penny first started to become a problem. So we called up Ed Moy and when we got him on the line. He didn't waste any time.

[Waylon Wong]

It is really nice to meet you and get you on the phone.

[Ed Moy]

So I would give you a penny for your thoughts, except that pennies are worth 4 cents, so you're getting a bonus.

[Waylon Wong]

You have the penny jokes coming already, and I love it.

[Darian Woods]

Ed served as the director of the US Mint from 2006 to 2011. The Mint is the government office in charge of making money. Literally, it prod, produces and circulates currency.

[Waylon Wong]

Ed's interest in coins started way before he joined the government. His immigrant parents ran a Chinese restaurant when he was growing up, and he started manning the cash register at age 10.

[Ed Moy]

When I was bored, I would paw through the change drawer and pick out coins that looked all silver or just unusual designs. And that began kind of a lifelong interest in the coin area. And this is the story about America. Little did I know that fast forward 40 years later, I would become director of the United States Mint.

[Darian Woods]

The job of the Mint is to make enough circulating coins to meet demand within the economy. And Ed says the office tries to do this at no cost to the taxpayers. And that means it shouldn't cost more to make a coin than the face value of that coin.

[Waylon Wong]

The best case scenario is when a coin's face value is more than the production cost, then the government makes a profit. There's even a special term for that seigniorage. This money goes to the Treasury's general fund to help pay down the national debt.

[Darian Woods]

In 2006, Ed's first year on the job, the US Mint was making money on dimes, quarters, and dollar coins. But it was losing money on nickels and pennies. In fact, 2006 was the first year that the cost of making a penny went above $0.01. Ed remembers it going to 1.4 cents.

[Ed Moy]

This is the run up toward the financial crisis. And the economy was still kind of hot in 2006. So base metals started increasing in price. And all of a sudden, this penny that was made of 97.5% zinc, 2.5% copper started creeping up above one penny to make. So I started consulting with Congress saying costs are going up.

[Waylon Wong]

Congress has the constitutional authority to regulate currency. And Ed remembers that lawmakers did not see the increasing cost of penny production as an urgent problem. Producing coins was still profitable overall, and losses from the penny then and now were super small compared with the federal budget.

[Ed Moy]

You know, a $80 million loss. It's a rounding error of a rounding error in the federal government.

[Darian Woods]

Yeah. So the federal budget is around $7 trillion. So 80 million out of 7 trillion, that's like $0.01. One penny out of $875.

[Waylon Wong]

Still, Congress gave Ed the green light to study cheaper ways to make the penny, and he considered some alternatives, but they didn't pan out. Swapping in a cheaper metal like steel would still cost more than one cent per penny. And switching to non metallic materials was also impractical.

[Darian Woods]

Ed left the Mint in 2011. He didn't get to finish that study on what to do with the penny. And by then the cost of making it had gone from around 1.4 cents to 2.4 cents. Demand for pennies was also declining as people used less cash.

[Ed Moy]

That was up to my successor to deliver that report to Congress. And every other successor has had to deal with this problem.

[Darian Woods]

By last month, when the Mint announced it was producing the last penny, the cost to make the coin was 3.7 cents. Ed says understands why the government finally made the call.

[Ed Moy]

It wasn't a surprise that eventually someone's going to have to make that decision. We have enough pennies. It's time to end the production of pennies.

[Waylon Wong]

A lot of people are totally over the penny. They throw them away or just let them sit around in jars. But we did find someone who really treasures this little guy.

[Robert Wexler]

My name is Robert Wexler and I'm an artist. And for more than two decades now, I've been following, focusing on the US penny. And I just finished 100,000 Penny Cube.

[Waylon Wong]

Robert cut notches into 100,000 pennies. Then he slid them together to form a 3D lattice. The sculpture took him seven years to finish, and it's on display at Wellesley College in Massachusetts.

[Robert Wexler]

I was worried that the penny would be canceled and removed from currency before I finished because if I finished the piece after that, it would be nothing but a memorial to the penny.

[Waylon Wong]

And.

[Robert Wexler]

And I didn't like that idea because for me, it has a lot more to say.

[Waylon Wong]

This coin has fascinated Robert ever since he was a kid and his grandfather would pretend to pull a penny out of his ear. He kept those coins in an orange Tupperware container because they felt magical to him.

[Darian Woods]

For his art, Robert needs a lot more than Tupperware containers of pennies. So he orders them in bulk from his bank.

[Robert Wexler]

They really don't like doing it because they're heavy and they take up space in the vault and they insist that you pick them up immediately, but they can't tell you when they're gonna arrive because they don't want you to know. When their bank truck is gonna be there because for security reasons.

[Waylon Wong]

Oh, my gosh. Cause what if you pulled off a heist?

[Sponsor Announcer]

Exactly.

[Waylon Wong]

You just have to be on call when the pennies arrive.

[Darian Woods]

Right. The hassle is worth it. For Robert, though. He still finds Wander in the penny.

[Robert Wexler]

They're these, like, lowly gutter things, you know, they live in muck and they're exposed to unspeakable filth.

[Sponsor Announcer]

But.

[Robert Wexler]

But that has this incredible effect in that they do turn blue and green, but they also turn, like, these spectacular oranges and reds or these really lovely waxy blacks. And it's so unique and special and just. It's like a little world.

[Waylon Wong]

So what's to become of all the pennies still circulating in the world? Well, Robert will take them to use in his art for former US Mint director Ed Moy saves them in a coin jar until he has enough to deposit at the bank.

[Darian Woods]

And back at the Lincoln Museum in Illinois, volunteers set out pennies for school children to find on the ground. Executive director Christina Schutt says they've given away more than 200,000 pennies in the last couple of decades.

[Unknown Host]

So it's really cute seeing kids like 3 and 4 year olds running around the plaza looking for the penny to find it. And it gives the volunteers great delight and joy because then they get an opportunity to talk about how Lincoln really is everywhere.

[Waylon Wong]

He's coming out of your ear.

[Darian Woods]

That will explain the waxy patina that Robert's finding.

[Waylon Wong]

The black wax.

[Darian Woods]

Yes.

[Waylon Wong]

Unspeakable filth. Darian. You know what, though? The gift shop at the Lincoln Museum no longer accepts pennies.

[Darian Woods]

How about nickels? I hear these lose even more money now than the penny did.

[Waylon Wong]

Yeah, last year it cost the mint close to 14 cents to produce a nickel. That's more than double its face value. So I don't know, maybe we'll do a nickel obit next year.

[Darian Woods]

Dropping like flyers.

[Waylon Wong]

This episode was produced by Julia Richie with Engineering by Sophie McArthur as fact checked by Corey Bridges. Katkin Cannon is the show's editor, and the indicator is a production of npr.

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