Tech layoffs, recession pop and more listener questions answered

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Indicator from Planet Money Episode: Tech Layoffs, Recession Pop and More Listener Questions Answered
Host/Author: NPR
Release Date: July 2, 2025

---

The Indicator from Planet Money delivers a nuanced exploration of pressing economic issues in this episode titled "Tech Layoffs, Recession Pop and More Listener Questions Answered." Hosted by Darian Woods, Adrienne Ma, and Waylon Wong, the episode delves into listener inquiries surrounding government price controls, the downturn in the tech job market, and the intriguing phenomenon of recession pop music. Here's a comprehensive breakdown of the key discussions and insights shared during the episode.

1. Is the President Imposing Price Controls?

Listener Question:
Tim Madison from Houston, Texas, asks whether President Trump's directive for businesses like Walmart to absorb tariffs effectively constitutes a price control.
"By attempting to intimidate private businesses into eating the tariffs, is the President effectively, if not technically, imposing price controls?" ([02:29])

Discussion:
Waylon Wong initiates the conversation by defining price controls, distinguishing between price floors (minimum prices) and price ceilings (maximum prices). He references historical instances, such as World War II and the 1970s oil crisis under President Nixon, where the government officially implemented price controls.

Darian Woods emphasizes the lack of formal policy in the current administration, noting that the President's call to action on platforms like Truth Social is more of a public admonition rather than a legally binding mandate.
"It's not clear whether he plans to enforce this. It's also not clear if Walmart executives believe there will be any consequences from the administration for raising prices." ([04:20])

Adrienne Ma likens the situation to a "game of chicken," suggesting that the effectiveness of the President's stance hinges on whether businesses will comply or face potential repercussions.
"So maybe this is like a who blinks first kind of situation." ([04:48])

Conclusion:
While the President's remarks echo the rhetoric of price controls, the absence of formal enforcement mechanisms raises questions about the actual impact. The situation remains a delicate balance between governmental pressure and corporate response.

---

2. The Struggles of the Tech Job Market

Listener Question:
May Chan from the San Francisco Bay Area inquires about the perceived decline in the tech job market, particularly affecting college students and new graduates. She also wonders if these challenges are reflected in the unemployment rate.
"It feels like for those of us living in the Bay Area, perhaps due to the threat of AI, unemployment is higher for the tech industry. College students and new grads are having a tough time finding internships and jobs. Are they factored into the unemployment rate?" ([04:59])

Insights from Experts:
Adrienne Ma introduces Svenja Gudel, Chief Economist for Indeed, who provides a detailed analysis:

• Decline in Tech Jobs: The tech sector has experienced a significant downturn post-pandemic.
  "The job market for tech jobs really has declined in the past couple of years." ([05:18])

• Pandemic Hiring Surge: During the pandemic, the surge in online activities led to a hiring spree in tech. However, as the situation normalized, hiring rates have retracted below pre-pandemic levels.
  "Tech hiring right now as a result of all this is actually slower than it was before the pandemic." ([05:53])

• Impact on Internships and New Grads: There's a noticeable reduction in available tech internships, adversely affecting the career prospects of new graduates. However, the unemployment rate doesn’t necessarily capture those solely seeking internships.
  "The unemployment rate does not count people who are only looking for internships, but it does count someone who would also be looking for a job and still can't find one." ([06:30])

• Role of Artificial Intelligence: AI's advancement presents a dual-edged sword—while it fosters innovation, it also introduces automation that may replace certain tech roles, further contributing to job market instability.
  "AI could be part of the story right now as companies are embracing AI as a way to kind of replace workers." ([07:02])

Conclusion:
The tech industry's cooling-off period post-pandemic, combined with the rising influence of AI, has strained the job market. While the unemployment rate offers some insight, it doesn't wholly encapsulate the challenges faced by those seeking internships and entry-level positions.

---

3. The Rise of Recession Pop Music

Listener Question:
Alana Benson from Lander, Wyoming, is curious about the trend of "recession pop." She references Spotify playlists and upcoming music releases, seeking to understand this phenomenon better.
"I've been hearing a lot about recession pop lately. Spotify literally has a playlist for it. Plus, Ke$ha is releasing new music, and it seems like the club beats from that era are having a resurgence too. So I just have to know more." ([07:36])

Exploration of Recession Pop:
Darian Woods recalls a previous discussion on recession pop, highlighting research that correlates upbeat music trends with economic downturns. Economist Marco Polamecchi is mentioned as part of this analysis.

• Historical Patterns:
  Woods cites examples where optimistic, dance-oriented songs topped the charts during recession periods:

  • "Diana Ross Ain't no Mountain High Enough... was number one in the singles charts in the 1970 recession." ([07:57])
  • "Step By Step by New Kids on the Block during the 1990 recession." ([07:57])
  • "All for Your in 2001." ([07:57])

• Current Indicators:
  The hosts note that the current musical landscape, as reflected in up-tempo tracks like Alex Warren's "Ordinary," suggests a lack of pervasive economic despair.
  "It is about staying financially flexible... we're not so sad that we're going 180 degrees in our music going full electro pop." ([08:13])

• Recession Pop as a Genre:
  The resurgence ties back to the revival of musicians who were prominent during past recessions, indicating a nostalgic return rather than a direct economic signal.
  "That's where Ke$ha comes in... recession pop artists like Katy Perry and Lady Gaga will now forever be known as recession pop music to forget the economy crumbling around you." ([09:20])

Conclusion:
Recession pop serves as both a reflection and a coping mechanism for economic uncertainty. While upbeat music trends have historically coincided with downturns, the current musical preferences suggest a more complex relationship with the economy.

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of The Indicator from Planet Money adeptly navigates through complex economic questions posed by listeners, offering clarity and expert insights. From dissecting potential governmental price controls to examining the ebb and flow of the tech job market and the cultural implications of recession pop, the hosts provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of these multifaceted issues.

---

Notable Quotes:

• "It's not clear whether he plans to enforce this. It's also not clear if Walmart executives believe there will be any consequences from the administration for raising prices." – Waylon Wong ([04:20])
• "The job market for tech jobs really has declined in the past couple of years." – Svenja Gudel ([05:18])
• "AI could be part of the story right now as companies are embracing AI as a way to kind of replace workers." – Adrienne Ma ([07:02])
• "That's where Ke$ha comes in... recession pop artists like Katy Perry and Lady Gaga will now forever be known as recession pop music to forget the economy crumbling around you." – Darian Woods ([09:20])

Transcript

[NPR]

Npr.

[Waylon Wong]

Well, well, well. Look who the cat dragged in.

[Darian Woods]

Claw marks all over me. And you don't have any sympathy.

[Waylon Wong]

You're looking a little worse for wear.

[Darian Woods]

It's me, Darian woods.

[Adrienne Ma]

And me, Adrienne Ma.

[Waylon Wong]

And also me, Waylon Wong. This is the indicator from Planet Money, and we are here to answer. Listener.

[Adrienne Ma]

That'S right. All the time we get really great questions from listeners about the economic and financial things happening in their lives.

[Waylon Wong]

So today on the show, is it considered a price control for the president to tell businesses to eat the tariffs? Why does the market for tech jobs feel so lousy? And what is recession pop?

[Darian Woods]

You ask. We answer after the break.

[Meta AI]

This message comes from Meta AI. Meta AI is the personal AI to help you with whatever you need. Not only is Meta AI now an app, but it's also on the apps you already Love. Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp and Messenger. Plus the Ray Ban Meta glasses. It's easy to access wherever you are throughout the day. Experience Meta's newest AI that's tailored to you by downloading the Meta AI app. Try the Meta AI app today on the Apple App Store and Google Play.

[NPR]

This message comes from Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.combank for details. Capital One NA Member FDIC this message.

[Meta AI]

Comes from Capital One. With the Venture X card, earn unlimited double miles on everything you buy, plus get premium benefits at a collection of hotels when booking through Capital One Travel. What's in your wallet? Terms apply.

[NPR]

[e-mail] this message is from Synchrony bank. Who wants to remind you to stay flexible, not the 10,000 steps before breakfast. Yoga, bending, circus performing. Wish I hadn't done that. Kind of flexible. It's about staying financially flexible. Like with our High Yield Savings account, you'll earn a great rate without monthly fees or minimums that can slow your Progress. Go to synchrony.com NPR Member FDIC so.

[Darian Woods]

Let'S start with our first listener question. It comes from Tim Madison out of Houston, Texas. Waylon, take us away.

[Waylon Wong]

All right, so before we hear from Tim, you need a little background here for the question. In May, Walmart's chief financial officer said price increases from tariffs were too high for the company to absorb entirely. He warned that some prices would be going up. And then President Trump posted on Truth Social saying Walmart should partially eat the tariffs and that he would be watching. So Tim's question is by attempting to.

[Adrienne Ma]

Intimidate private businesses into eating the tariffs. Is the President effectively, if not technically, imposing price controls?

[Waylon Wong]

Hmm, juicy topic. Okay, so let's start with what the term price controls typically means. A price control is when the government dictates in some way or what private companies charge their customers. So you have a minimum level that's called a price floor. Then there's a price ceiling that's a maximum level.

[Adrienne Ma]

Like rent control would be an example of this.

[Waylon Wong]

Exactly. So rent control is probably the example that people are familiar with, especially if you live in a city. But price controls aren't that common in the US we mostly rely on the market to set prices. There have been some notable historical experiments with price controls, though. World War II is one example.

[Darian Woods]

Yeah, the federal government created an entire office that set price ceilings for staples like coffee and meat. There was this whole rationing system that people had to follow.

[Waylon Wong]

Right. Then President Nixon put in price controls during the oil crisis in the 70s. And so during those periods, the World War II era and the 70s, price controls were official government policy. We haven't seen anything so formal from the Trump administration. What we have is a true social post from the President.

[Darian Woods]

And so back to our listener's question. Is this effectively a price control?

[Waylon Wong]

Yeah, for it to be effectively a price control, it has to be effective. Right. And so that's kind of the open question. You have the President calling for a kind of price control. He's saying to Walmart, don't raise your prices. I'm watching you. But it's not clear whether he plans to enforce this. It's also not clear if Walmart executives believe there will be any consequences from the administration for raising prices.

[Adrienne Ma]

So maybe this is like a who blinks first kind of situation.

[Waylon Wong]

Another game of chicken? Yes.

[Adrienne Ma]

Okay, so our next question comes from May Chan, who lives in the San Francisco Bay Area.

[Darian Woods]

It feels like for those of us living in the Bay Area, perhaps due to the threat of AI, unemployment is higher for the tech industry. College students and new grads are having a tough time finding internships and jobs. Are they factored into the unemployment rate?

[Adrienne Ma]

So May is actually asking a couple of questions here. So let's tackle the first one. Is unemployment higher for the tech sector right now? To get some answers, we reached out to Svenia Gudel, who's chief economist for the job site. Indeed. And Svenja says that the job market for tech jobs really has declined in the past couple of years.

[NPR]

And it's quite drastic, actually. If you look at, for example, jobs for software developers, or information, design and documentation, IT ops and help desk type jobs. They all saw this incredible run up during the pandemic.

[Adrienne Ma]

Yeah. Remember how suddenly a lot more people during the pandemic were super online. They were working remotely shopping online. And so tech companies went on a hiring spree. But then as the pandemic faded, that hiring spree kind of went into reverse. On top of that, in recent years, tech companies have also had to deal with high interest rates, kind of like the rest of us. And those high interest rates have also weighed on the industry. So tech hiring right now as a result of all this is actually slower than it was before the pandemic.

[NPR]

And in addition to that, not only is it fewer tech jobs in general, we're seeing fewer tech internships being offered.

[Darian Woods]

That's not good for the new grads.

[Adrienne Ma]

No, it is not. And that gets us to May's second question, which is whether this reduction in entry level jobs and internships and is reflected in the unemployment rate. Svenja says that depends. The unemployment rate does not count people who are only looking for internships, but it does count someone who would also be looking for a job and still can't find one.

[Waylon Wong]

But then may also ask whether AI could be hurting tech employment. Right. So then what did Svenya say about that?

[Adrienne Ma]

Well, yes, I mean, Svenya says AI could be part of the story right now as companies are embracing AI as a way to kind of replace workers. That could also be slowing down a potential recovery in tech jobs.

[Waylon Wong]

Okay, thank you, Adrian. Our next question is for you, Darian. It comes from Alana Benson in Lander, Wyoming. I've been hearing a lot about recession pop lately. Spotify literally has a playlist for it. Plus, Ke$ha is releasing new music, and it seems like the club beats from that era are having a resurgence too. So I just have to know more.

[Darian Woods]

Well, Alana, you are in luck. We covered recession pop a few years ago when a paper came out quantifying all the songs we love to listen to when unemployment is high. We talked to economist Marco Polamecchi, and I was thinking that when the situation.

[Adrienne Ma]

Is bad, people will search for music that express their feelings. But I found the opposite.

[Darian Woods]

So Diana Ross Ain't no Mountain High Enough. This was number one in the singles charts in the 1970 recession. You also had Step By Step by New Kids on the Block. This was a single during the 1990 recession. Janet Jackson, all for your in 2001. And all of these singles are upbeat.

[Waylon Wong]

Positive songs dancing through the pain, Rhythm Nation.

[Darian Woods]

And typically we are not in a recession right now. But you know, how do we really know that until we check the pop charts? And so on the Billboard Hot 100 as of this recording is a song by the name of Ordinary by Alex Warren.

[Adrienne Ma]

This song definitely gives me an emo vibe.

[Darian Woods]

Yeah, it's kind of mid tempo ballad and that is actually perhaps one good indicator for the economy. We're not so sad that we're going 180 degrees in our music going full electro pop. And that brings me to this latest trend about the whole recession pop thing as a genre. It is related but it is slightly different. It's a revival of the specific pop musicians that were playing on the orcs cable in the last long recession. So that's where Ke$ comes in. The song TikTok was a hit in 2009.

[Waylon Wong]

I'm talking pedicure on our toes toes trying on all our clothes clothes boys.

[Darian Woods]

Blowing up our phones, phones cut it all. This really brings me back whaling on the dance floor cutting some nerves. You know this is back when the unemployment rate was more than double what it is today and that whole crew of great recession pop artists like Katy Perry and Lady Gaga will now forever be known as recession pop music to forget the economy crumbling around you.

[Waylon Wong]

Abracadabra. There's no recession.

[Darian Woods]

The only thing unemployed right now is Adrienne not dancing with us on the dance floor.

[Adrienne Ma]

Come on, I'm busy making my new music plan for a compilation CD called Now that's what I Call Recession Indicator Tunes. This episode was produced by Cooper Katz McKim and engineered by Neil Rauch. It was fact checked by Sierra Juarez. Julia Ritchie edited this episode. Kagan Cannon is our editor and the Indicators of production of npr.

[NPR]

This message comes from Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with Wireless and made it right. They offer premium wireless plans for less and all plans include high speed data, unlimited talk and text and nationwide coverage. See for [e-mail] Switch this message comes from Thrive Market the food industry is a multi billion dollar industry, but not everything on the shelf is made with your health in mind. At Thrive Market, they go beyond the standards, curating the highest quality products for you and your family while focusing on organic first and restricting more than 1,000 harmful ingredients. All shipped to your door. Shop at a grocery store that actually cares for your [e-mail] podcast for 30% off your first order plus a $60 free gift. This message comes from Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with Wireless and made it right. They offer premium wireless plans for less and all plans include high speed data, unlimited talk and text and nationwide coverage. See for [e-mail] Switch.