U OK, UK?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "U OK, UK?"

The Indicator from Planet Money, NPR
Date: June 9, 2026
Hosts/Guests: Waylon Wong (Host), Ilya Marritz (Guest Reporter, London), Helen Miller (Institute for Fiscal Studies), Helen Lawrence (Sunderland Librarian)

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the mounting economic troubles in the United Kingdom, discussing their causes, effects, and the sense of national impatience as the country cycles through leaders. With expert voices and a trip to the city of Sunderland, the show investigates whether the UK’s current woes are just part of a global trend or something uniquely concerning.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The UK’s Economic Malaise (00:22–03:09)

• Opening Context:
  The UK seems to be "a little queasy right now" ([00:29], Ilya Marritz), with headlines about slow economic growth, soaring government borrowing costs, and nearly one million young people out of work.
• Political Instability:
  Six prime ministers in ten years. "If the citizens keep thinking that we're going to fix it in 18 months... we'll just get a new leader, that's a problem" ([01:04], Helen Miller).
• Global Pressures:
  The Iran war is affecting advanced economies, causing higher oil and gas prices, but the UK seems to be struggling more than most ([01:23], Waylon Wong).

2. Underlying Cause: Persistent Low Growth (03:09–03:50)

• Helen Miller’s Diagnosis:
  All these symptoms point to one root problem: "low growth. For many years now, the extent to which the economy is growing has been much lower than it was in prior decades..." ([03:09], Helen Miller).
  This slow growth undermines public finances, employment, and ability to pay off debt.
• Timeline:
  Slow growth dates to the 2008 global financial crisis, with warning signs before ([03:40], Helen Miller).

3. Specific Drivers of UK Economic Weakness (04:10–04:43)

• Enumerated Causes:
  • Brexit: Knocked 6–8% off GDP ([04:10], Ilya Marritz).
  • Austerity: Post-crisis spending cuts in services ([04:20], Waylon Wong).
  • Chronic Health Issues: 800,000 workers left the workforce since the pandemic ([04:30], Ilya Marritz).
  • Underinvestment: In both private and public sectors, especially in tech and infrastructure ([04:37], Waylon Wong).
• Geographical Inequality:
  Wealth is highly concentrated in London, “the rest of the nation struggling” ([04:58], Ilya Marritz).

4. Case Study: Sunderland – Life Outside London (04:58–07:44)

• Helen Lawrence’s Perspective:
  Sunderland, once thriving with shipbuilding and coal mining, now struggles despite some new employers like Nissan.
  “You wouldn’t come to Sunderland if you really wanted to shop... it’s not a great [shopping city]” ([06:23], Helen Lawrence).
• Living Standards:
  A family meal out is now £80–£90 ($110), compared to what was once routine ([07:46], Helen Lawrence).
  "It's more of a treat to do things you would have considered to be quite basic sort of 10 years ago." ([08:03], Helen Lawrence).
• Stagnant Incomes:
  If pre-2010 growth trends had continued, typical Sunderland families would be $6,000–$17,000 richer today ([07:15], Waylon Wong).

5. The "Cost of Living Crisis" – A Misdiagnosis? (08:11–09:04)

• Miller’s Take:
  Calling it a "cost of living crisis" makes the problem seem temporary or fixable solely through inflation control or price caps.
  “No, no, actually, we need more productivity... that's what will give us a higher standard of living.” ([08:36], Helen Miller).

6. Political Solutions and Their Limits (09:04–10:21)

• Failed Quick Fixes:
  Liz Truss promised "huge unfunded tax cuts" to stimulate growth, causing market turmoil and losing her job after 49 days ([09:21], Ilya Marritz).
• No Silver Bullet:
  Helen Miller: "There is no magic bullet... the lesson is you have to do the hard yards across lots of policy areas..." ([09:30], Helen Miller).
• Political Instability:
  Six prime ministers in 10 years; Starmer may soon face a leadership challenge.
  “Political instability can be the enemy of sound long term economic planning.” ([10:21], Helen Miller).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fast Fixes and Leadership Turnover:
  “If the citizens keep thinking that we're going to fix it in 18 months, and if we don't... we'll just get a new leader, that's a problem.”
  — Helen Miller, [01:04]
• On Root Causes:
  “If there's one big picture thing that's happening in the UK, I think it's low growth.”
  — Helen Miller, [03:09]
• On Life in Sunderland:
  "You wouldn’t come to Sunderland if you really wanted to shop.... it's not a great [shopping city]."
  — Helen Lawrence, [06:23]
• On the True Nature of the Crisis:
  “My concern with calling it a cost of living crisis is it feels like... it's kind of temporary... it leads you to think there's something easy you can do to fix it. Whereas... we need more productivity... that's what will give us a higher standard of living.”
  — Helen Miller, [08:36]
• On Political Promises:
  "There is no magic bullet that's going to drive up growth.... you have to do the hard yards across lots of policy areas.”
  — Helen Miller, [09:30]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:22: Are you okay, UK? – Framing the national anxiety
• 03:09: Helen Miller introduces the root issue: low growth
• 04:10: Listing major causes: Brexit, austerity, underinvestment
• 05:18–07:44: Sunderland case study – life outside London
• 08:36: Challenging the "cost of living crisis" label
• 09:30: Why there’s no simple fix for UK growth woes
• 10:21: The cost of political instability

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Summary Takeaway

The UK’s economic malaise is deeper than headlines about inflation or the latest political scandal. The country faces entrenched low growth, persistent inequality, and instability—problems no single policy or leader can quickly solve. Real improvement will require a suite of difficult, long-term reforms, and until then, ordinary families in places like Sunderland will continue to feel the pinch. As Helen Miller notes, “There is no magic bullet... you have to do the hard yards.”

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Transcript

[A]

This episode was produced by Cooper Katz McCam with engineering by Jimmy Keeley by Leila Doss. This episode was produced by Cooper Cassidy and was engineered by Jimmy and was fact checked by Layla Doss. This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Waylon Wong here today with Ilya Merritz, a longtime public radio reporter now based in London. Hello Ilya.

[B]

Hey Waylon.

[A]

So I have a rhetorical question for you and really it's a rhetorical question for your adopted country. You okay?

[B]

UK Waylon Grown and yes, that's a really good question. You are correct to ask that question because the UK economy is looking a little queasy right now. First there was an IMF report saying the Iran war would hit UK growth hard. They later revised it up just a little. Then UK government borrowing costs hit a 28 year high and and then there was the news that a million young people are out of work. There is a rising sense of impatience here. Have you noticed the keep changing prime ministers, six PMs in 10 years.

[C]

So if the citizens keep thinking that we're going to fix it in 18 months, and if we don't fix it in 18 months, we'll just get a new leader, that's a problem because it's not reasonable to expect that we can fix these problems so quickly.

[B]

The current Prime Minister, Sir Keir Starmer, could soon face a leadership challenge from within his own party.

[A]

Today on the show, a lot of advanced economies are feeling the stress of the Iran war with higher prices for oil and gas. But is the UK the country we should be worrying about?

[D]

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[B]

I brought all those negative headlines about the British economy to Helen Miller. She is the director of a think tank, the Institute for Fiscal Studies ifs. And she told me these stories can be overwhelming, so it helps to look at them as symptoms of a single underlying issue.

[C]

If there's one big picture thing that's happening in the uk, I think it's low growth. For many years now, the extent to which the economy is growing has been much lower than it was in prior decades and that is underlying a lot of the government's problems. It's why it's hard to run the public finances because we have a big debt pile. It's hard to pay off that debt if you haven't got a growing economy. It's hard to get people into work if the economy's not growing healthily. So I think underlying a lot of these things is just the problem of low growth.

[B]

How long has the UK been in a low growth place?

[C]

I think he wanted to put a mark on the chart. You would start around the, you know, the great financial crisis. Actually, if you roll back a bit before that, there were some early warning signs that productivity wasn't doing so great.

[A]

Now, many advanced nations economies experienced sluggish growth after the 2008 financial crisis. But according to the IFS's own analysis, the UK grew slower in that period than both the US and the EU on a per person basis. One recent report described earnings growth as, quote, dreadful.

[B]

Let's just name a few of the commonly cited reasons for this. 1. Brexit. Britain's decision to leave Europe's big trading bloc knocked six to eight points off gdp.

[A]

Number two, austerity. Following the financial crisis, the UK made deep cuts to spending on public services, including healthcare and local government.

[B]

Three, since the pandemic, many people have chronic health problems and 800,000 of them have left the workforce.

[A]

And four, chronic underinvestment in both the private and public sectors, from new technologies to infrastructure.

[B]

But there's something else Helen Miller pointed to. We did this interview in her office in Marylebone, a prosperous part of London, which I don't think anyone would describe as stagnating.

[A]

Right. London is still a capital of international finance, much like New York.

[B]

So Miller told me I should get out of the capital because even more than most countries, the UK has high geographical inequality with a lot of wealth concentrated in London and the rest of the nation struggling. So I took a road trip, actually a rail trip to the city of Sunderland, 270 miles to the north.

[E]

The next station is Stadium of Light.

[B]

If you've spent time in the American Rust Belt, it has a similar vibe. And I met up with another Helen, Helen Lawrence. She's a university librarian and a born and bred Sunderlander. Excuse me, she's a makam.

[E]

A local word that would be used to describe somebody from Sunderland would be mackam. And that comes from. It's rooted in ship building. So it would be. The idea is ships, Sunderland, mackam, make them.

[B]

And where exactly do they mack the ships? Well, very close to where we're standing, we're looking at the river. River Weah. Where?

[E]

Weah. W E A R. Weah.

[C]

Weah.

[B]

So Sunderland is known for its distinctive accent and vocabulary. They are no longer macking ships here. The last shipyards closed a few decades ago. There used to be coal mines too, but those are gone now.

[A]

Today the big employers include Nissan, it's the UK's biggest auto manufacturing hub. And the university where Helen works.

[B]

Still the main retail strip downtown has a lot of for rent signs.

[E]

You wouldn't come to Sunderland if you really wanted to shop. That's. You just wouldn't. Yeah, it's not a great. It's got other things going for it. Shopping's not.

[B]

When were like the glory days, if you can tell

[E]

me personally, I would say the 80s, but I think older people would probably say it was 60s, 70s. There was just a lot more, kind of a lot more life and action in here.

[B]

Walking around Sunderland with Helen, I did notice a beautiful new pedestrian bridge over the Weah that'll take macams straight from downtown to the game. Oh, and Sunderland's football team just rejoined the Premier League. Helen is a huge fan. Go Black Cats. Or as they say here, oh, how are the lads? How are the lads? They had a decent season, finished seventh in the league.

[A]

Go Black Cats.

[B]

Away the lads.

[A]

I didn't feel comfortable saying that in my Midwestern accent. Okay, well, there is one sticky problem though, which puts Sunderland on our radar. Income growth has stalled. One study by the center for Cities found a typical Sunderland family would be about 6, $17,000 richer if pre2010 growth trends had continued. In fact, most UK cities saw the same thing since about the financial crisis. People's bank accounts are not growing much

[B]

and they feel it.

[E]

You can't do the things that you would have just taken for granted, like to go out so for four of us, my, like, family of four, to go out for a meal, you're looking at kind of 80, 90 pounds just for a regular.

[A]

To go out for a regular meal, that's US$110 roughly.

[E]

And it's more of a treat to do things that you would have considered to be quite basic sort of 10 years ago.

[B]

And do you think that that's making people grumpy?

[E]

Yes.

[B]

I put this to think tank. Helen. Helen Miller.

[C]

It's true that people are struggling and they are struggling in part because the cost of the things they want to buy are expensive.

[B]

Sound familiar? Cost of living crisis. You hear that phrase a lot in the uk, the same way you do in the us. But Helen Miller says it is the wrong framing for the United Kingdom.

[C]

My concern with calling it a cost of living crisis is it feels like it's either it's kind of temporary, it's just to do with prices. Maybe the bank of England can control it through inflation, maybe you can just cap food prices. It leads you to think there's something easy you can do to fix it. Whereas I think our focus nationally needs to be. No, no, actually, we need more productivity, we need workers who can produce more, who can therefore command higher wages. That's what will give us a higher standard of living. And we need to sort of be calling our politicians to do the kinds of things that get that growth rate up.

[A]

It's that economic growth thing again. But how do you get to growth? Exactly. Just four years and two Prime Ministers ago, a new leader came along promising to turbocharge growth. Her name was Liz Truss and her prescription was huge unfunded tax cuts, the

[B]

bond market, had a cow. She was out of the job in a record 49 days. Helen Miller from the Institute for Fiscal Studies took note.

[C]

There is no. There is no magic bullet that's going to drive up growth. There's no one policy the government can do that's going to make everything better. So, in part, the lesson is you have to do the hard yards across lots of policy areas, across tax reform, education reform, competition policy, planning. You have to do lots of things and then that starts to move the dial. That is a harder sell to the electorate because it's not just the press this button, this will happen.

[B]

She says it'd help if the Iran war came to an end soon, but that is not in the UK's control. One thing Brits can influence, though, is their own government. There have been six Prime Ministers over the past decade. In the next few months, Britain's ruling Labour Party may swap out PM Sir Keir Starmer for someone new. Helen Miller isn't taking a position on that, but she says political instability can be the enemy of sound long term economic planning.

[A]

Ilya merits thank you so much for bringing us this dispatch from across the pond.

[B]

You are very welcome.

[A]

Cheerio. This episode was produced by Cooper Katz McKim with engineering by Jimmy Keeley. It was fact checked by Layla Doss. Kate and Cannon edits the show and the indicator is a production of npr.

[D]

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[C]

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