Why Americans don't want to move for jobs anymore

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Indicator from Planet Money

Episode: Why Americans don't want to move for jobs anymore
Date: October 3, 2025
Host: NPR (Waylon Wong, Julia Richie, Stephen Bissaha)

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Overview

This episode examines the sharp decline in Americans moving for work, discussing both the personal and economic reasons behind this trend. Using examples from Huntsville, Alabama—a city reshaped by federal relocations—the hosts explore why Americans have become “homebodies,” how improved job prospects and gender parity factor in, and what this means for the broader economy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. A Most Unusual Jobs Friday

• [00:11–01:19]
  • Federal shutdown means there’s no official BLS jobs report.
  • Hosts rely on alternative sources: ADP and Revelio Labs report weaker growth (approx. 38,000–60,000 jobs added in September).
  • There are sizable regional divergences: California is up 25,000 jobs, Texas down 10,000.

2. Americans Are Less Willing to Move Than Ever

• [01:41–01:52]
  • Internal migration for jobs is at about half the rate it was 30 years ago.
  • “We’re in the era of homebodies.”—Stephen Bissaha [01:41]

3. Huntsville, Alabama: The Case Study

• [03:24–03:49]
  • Once famous for Saturn V rocket engineering; now burgeoning with federal agencies.
  • Relocation was frequently met with strong reluctance from federal workers.

Memorable Example: FBI Relocations

• [03:49–05:12]
  • Sharonda Ware, former FBI staffer, recalls widespread anger when forced relocations to Alabama were announced:
    • “It was like … people kind of throwing rotten tomatoes. Just really, that was what that was like.” —Sharonda Ware [04:08]
    • Only about 10% of staff agreed to move, matching FBI data [05:03].
    • Issues included personal/family constraints and concerns about Alabama’s racial climate.
      • “Some people had, you know, shared custody arrangements, elderly parents… there were just reasons why they couldn’t do it.” —Sharonda Ware [04:45]

4. Why Aren’t People Moving?

• [05:56–07:51]
  • Urvi Nila Kantan (Fed economist) explains the declining mobility:
    • Sticking to regions tied to industry and education (tech in Bay Area; engineers in Huntsville).
    • Increased political sorting: >40% say politics play a role in where they choose to live.
      • “We just stopped seeing that, like such a traditional part of the life cycle is not happening anymore.” —Waylon Wong [06:11]
    • Abortion law restrictions influencing medical residencies.

Two-Body Problem: Women and Work

• [07:13–08:01]
  • Rise in dual-career households makes moving harder:
    • “So a moving decision based on work is only based on one spouse’s job. Now imagine … more women in the workplace, so now it’s a two body problem.” —Waylon Wong [07:28]
    • Gender pay gap is closing (85% of men’s median pay, up from 75% in the ’90s). If both partners have careers/similar pay, prioritizing one job for a move is trickier.

The Salary Gap Factor

• [08:26–09:01]
  • Regional pay variances have narrowed, which erodes the financial incentive to move:
    • “There’s less regional variation in wages and salaries.” —Waylon Wong [08:39]
      • “It used to be that people would throng to places where prospects were better, but as places get more even then there’s less of a pull… to move…” —Waylon Wong [09:01]

Remote Work’s Effect

• [09:16–09:29]
  • Temporary rise in moves during the 2021 remote boom, but now flexible work lets people stay put while changing jobs.

5. Huntsville Today: Affordable and Charismatic

• [09:33–10:20]

  • Fast growth is due to affordability (30% cheaper housing than Colorado Springs).

  • Sharonda Ware’s journey:

    • She moved to Huntsville despite fears, drawn by natural beauty and “Southern hospitality.”
    • “To me, I feel like people are more willing to be like, good morning, you know, how are you?... I just love to be able to do that with other people, too.” —Sharonda Ware [10:04]

  • Huntsville is now firmly home for her; another move is not on the table.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We’re in the era of homebodies. Americans are moving at around half the rate they were 30 years ago.” —Stephen Bissaha [01:41]
• "If I were to guess, like only 10% moved." —Sharonda Ware [04:57]
• “It was like … throwing rotten tomatoes. Just really, that was what that was like.” —Sharonda Ware [04:08]
• “So a moving decision … is only based on one spouse’s job. Now … it’s a two-body problem.” —Waylon Wong [07:28]
• “There’s less regional variation in wages and salaries.” —Waylon Wong [08:39]
• "To me, I feel like people are more willing to be like, good morning ... I just love to be able to do that with other people, too.” —Sharonda Ware [10:04]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:11 – Unusual Jobs Friday due to government shutdown
• 01:41 – American mobility at historic low
• 03:24 – Huntsville’s federal boom; introduction to FBI relocation story
• 04:08 – Reluctance and emotional reactions to forced moves
• 05:56 – Broader decline in interstate mobility, research explanations
• 07:13 – Gender, two-career households, narrowing pay gap
• 08:39 – Shrinking regional wage differences
• 09:16 – Remote work’s influence
• 09:33 – Huntsville’s growth, housing affordability
• 10:04 – Sharonda Ware on her positive Southern experience

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Tone Notes

The episode is conversational, humorous at moments, and empathetic to both personal and economic realities. It combines storytelling with data and real-world anecdotes to bring policy considerations to life.

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Transcript

[Waylon Wong]

Npr.

[Stephen Bissaha]

This is the Indicator from Planet Money. I'm Waylon Wong and I'm here with friend of the show Stephen Bissaha from the Gulf States newsroom.

[Julia Richie]

Good to be with you, Waylon, and especially happy to be here on Jobs Friday.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Yes, it is Jobs Friday, and as you can maybe tell from our horn, it is a highly unusual Jobs Friday.

[Julia Richie]

Yeah, I cannot actually remember when we had a usual Jobs Friday.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Oof. Yes, we are in uncharted waters because the federal government is shut down. And a shutdown government means no Friday jobs report.

[Julia Richie]

Now, there are at least some other sources of jobs data less comprehensive than what the Bureau of Labor Statistics produces, of course, but hey, you know, they're actually getting released. So we'll take it.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Right. We have the payroll company ADP and Revelio Labs, which maintains and sells its own workforce data. Revelio's September jobs report said the U.S. economy economy added about 60,000 jobs. And the company's chief economist says combine that with numbers from ADP and the BLS likely would have come in around 38,000 jobs. So still some shaky signs for the job market.

[Julia Richie]

Yeah. And the Revelli report also looks at state employment and there's some pretty big differences depending on where you live. Like California gained about 25,000 jobs while Texas lost 10,000. So with some parts of the country being more boom and others being more bust, you might imagine Americans packing up the U haul and chasing down those opportunities across state lines.

[Stephen Bissaha]

But that's actually not happening, at least not as much as it used to. In fact, we're in the era of homebodies. Americans are moving at around half the rate they were 30 years ago.

[Julia Richie]

So on today's show, why are Americans moving at a record low and how that's related to women getting better pay? Plus a trip to Huntsville, Alabama. We'll explain why after the break.

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[Julia Richie]

If there's one thing you should know about Huntsville, Alabama, it's sort of this federal workforce mecca in the south, especially when it comes defense in space.

[Stephen Bissaha]

It's the city that designed the Saturn 5 rockets that put the first man on the moon. And in more recent decades, tons of federal jobs and offices have moved to the city, like the Army Materiel Command, the Missile Defense Agency, and more than a thousand FBI jobs.

[Julia Richie]

Now, that does not mean all those moves went smoothly like in 2018. At the time, the FBI's Finance and Facilities Division was based in D.C. the agency called in all of its roughly 100 workers from that division into an auditorium to share the news. Sharondaware was working in D.C. at the time.

[Sharonda Ware]

You know how they have these town halls and you know, there have been people lately who've been kind of like throwing rotten tomatoes. Like, just really like that was what that was like.

[Stephen Bissaha]

So metaphorical tomatoes. But I can imagine the anger.

[Julia Richie]

Yeah, they would not have to be told they had to leave D.C. for Alabama.

[Sharonda Ware]

And some people was like, no, I'm not. You know, and then there was some anger and there's some people who resigned.

[Julia Richie]

Sharonda personally was concerned about Alabama's long history and reputation when it comes to.

[Sharonda Ware]

Race, you know, especially as a black woman, is this going to be a danger for my family or myself?

[Stephen Bissaha]

And for some workers, moving was just impossible.

[Sharonda Ware]

Some people had, you know, shared custody arrangements, elderly parents. They were taken care of. There were just reasons why they couldn't do it.

[Julia Richie]

Do you know, like the percent of your division that decided to move to Huntsville?

[Sharonda Ware]

If I were to guess, like only 10% moved.

[Julia Richie]

Oh, that's small.

[Sharonda Ware]

Yeah, it was.

[Stephen Bissaha]

That 10% number matches what the FBI told us in an email. About 10 to 30% of its staff in the past agreed to relocate to Huntsville.

[Julia Richie]

And this concern about people not relocating popped up again for Huntsville. President Trump announced he's moving Space Command there from Colorado Springs. Space Command's job is coordinating military operations in Space like defending US Satellites from attack.

[Stephen Bissaha]

The move to Huntsville has been talked about for years, and you can see those relocation worries in a report this year from the Defense Department Inspector general. It showed that command leadership worried a majority of its 1,000 civilian workers, contractors and reservists might not relocate to Alabama.

[Julia Richie]

And before you think this is all about workers rejecting the south, it is not. American workers across the country have become more and more reluctant to move across state lines over the last 30 years.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Urvi Nila Kantan is a senior policy economist with the Federal Reserve bank of Richmond. She co authored a brief about this moving decline. And she says she got interested in this topic because moving away has always been a big part of the American story.

[Waylon Wong]

We just stopped seeing that, like such a traditional part of the life cycle is not happening anymore. And we really wanted to know why.

[Julia Richie]

Depending on how you count, I think I've moved at least three times to different states for work.

[Stephen Bissaha]

I have two, and one of those was international.

[Julia Richie]

Oh, you got me beat then.

[Stephen Bissaha]

This was all like in my 20s before I had obligations that were tying me to a specific place, you know.

[Julia Richie]

Yeah, that does help. And you know, Irving's research did come up with a few reasons for the moving drop. One is that Americans have basically been more and more often sticking to certain parts of the country based on things like industry and education. Like college grads are more likely to stay in cities, Tech bros are hanging out in the Bay Area, and Huntsville has been this gathering spot for engineers.

[Stephen Bissaha]

You can also say the US is more politically sorted, too. A realtor.com survey found that over 40% of Americans said politics influence where they decide to live. And we've talked on the show before about how medical students, for example, are choosing not to apply for residencies in states with abortion restrictions.

[Julia Richie]

Another surprise reason Irvy gives for Americans staying put is that women are working more. Which might sound like a weird explanation, but hear us out and imagine a husband and a wife. Husband works outside the house, wife stays home.

[Waylon Wong]

So a moving decision based on work is only based on one spouse's job. Now imagine that there are more women in the workplace, so now it's a two body problem.

[Stephen Bissaha]

And there are more marriages where both partners are working. That means moving for one person's career might mean the other person having to give up their own. That is not an easy decision. So it makes sense those couples would be less likely to move.

[Julia Richie]

It is a bit easier if one partner makes a lot more than the other. But that just leads us to another reason for the moving drop. The gender pay gap is closing.

[Stephen Bissaha]

The big caveat here is that median wages for women are still about 85% of what men get paid. But, yes, that is better than in the 90s, when it was more like 75%.

[Julia Richie]

And if both parents are making similar salaries, how do you pick whose career gets prioritized? Might be easier just to stay put. And this all gets more complicated when you add a kid to the equation. I mean, you might want to stick close to the grandparents for that childcare support if both parents are working.

[Stephen Bissaha]

So there's a lot on the con side of the moving decision list. And Orvi says there are also fewer pros, too, because when comparing similar jobs across different places, there isn't as much of a difference as there used to be.

[Waylon Wong]

There's less regional variation in wages and salaries.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Although, yes, New Yorkers still make a lot more, on average, than workers in Birmingham, Alabama.

[Julia Richie]

Hey, though, we do have better crawfish boils.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Oh, you do have New Yorkers beat there. But generally, Orvi points to research that says when comparing similar jobs between states, the salary gap has been shrinking.

[Waylon Wong]

It used to be that people would throng to places where prospects were better, but as places get more even then there's less of a pull, you know, to move to better opportunities, because now you can get good jobs at where you live right now.

[Stephen Bissaha]

There's also something interesting going on with remote work. You might remember a bunch of people moving because they had remote work possibilities in 2021. Now, today, people with flexible work arrangements can take a new job and stay put.

[Julia Richie]

Of course, some people are still moving today, even if they're doing it less.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Yeah. So let's go back to Huntsville. The city is growing fast, and a big part of that is it's still relatively affordable. According to WalletHub, housing costs are about 30% lower than in Colorado Springs. That's where Space Command is moving.

[Julia Richie]

And remember Sharonda Ware, the FBI worker who was told she needs to leave D.C. for Huntsville? Well, she ended up making that move. She still has some concerns about racism in Alabama, but she was won over by the state's beautiful rivers and mountains and its culture.

[Sharonda Ware]

To me, I feel like people are more willing to be like, good morning, you know, how are you? Oh, it's raining out there. You know, just being able to talk to other people, that's my. That's how I am. So I just love to be able to do that with other people, too.

[Julia Richie]

So that Southern hospitality got to you that part.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Yep.

[Julia Richie]

Sharonda is no longer with the FBI. She took part in that federal deferred resignation program at the start of the year, and she's deciding with her husband what they're going to do next. One thing that's not in the cards is moving again. Huntsville is home.

[Stephen Bissaha]

This episode was produced by Julia Richie and engineered by Sina Lofredo. It was fact checked by Corey Bridges. Kicking Cannon is her show's editor, and the indicator is a production of NPR.

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