Podcast Summary:

The Indicator from Planet Money
Episode: Why Americans Don't Want to Move for Jobs Anymore (Encore)
Date: December 31, 2025
Hosts: Waylon Wong & Stephen Bissaha
Featured Guests: Sharonda Ware (Former FBI Employee), Urvinila Kantan (Senior Policy Economist, Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond)
Episode Length (Content Only): ~10 minutes

Overview:

This episode explores the ongoing decline in Americans moving for work—a significant shift from historic trends and the mythos of the mobile U.S. workforce. Hosts Waylon Wong and Stephen Bissaha dig into labor data, demographic changes, and personal stories, with a focus on how dual-income households and closing gender pay gaps play into the phenomenon, alongside a case study of Huntsville, Alabama.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shrinking American Migration for Jobs

• Americans are moving for jobs at about half the rate they did 30 years ago. (02:21)
  • "We’re in the era of homebodies." — Waylon Wong (02:21)
• Despite large employment booms and busts in different states (e.g., California gaining 25,000 jobs, Texas losing 10,000 in September), Americans aren’t chasing jobs the way they used to.

2. Case Study: Huntsville, Alabama

• Huntsville is a hotspot for defense and space jobs, historically involved in Saturn V rocket design and now a hub for major federal offices.
• Not all staff have followed federal relocations to Huntsville:
  • In 2018, when the FBI’s Finance and Facilities Division was moved from D.C. to Alabama, only about 10% of staff relocated. (05:20–05:26)
  • Factors for reluctance included family obligations, concerns about Alabama’s racial climate (especially for people of color), and personal ties.
  • “Some people had, you know, shared custody arrangements, elderly parents. They were taken care of. There were just reasons why they couldn’t do it.” — Sharonda Ware (05:10)
• Recent attempts to move U.S. Space Command from Colorado Springs raised similar retention worries.
  • Commanders feared “a majority of its 1,000 civilian workers, contractors and reservists might not relocate to Alabama.” — Stephen Bissaha (05:53)

3. National Trends: Why Are People Staying Put?

• Historical Shift: Moving for work used to be a common rite of passage.

  • "We just stopped seeing that, like such a traditional part of the life cycle is not happening anymore." — Urvinila Kantan (06:36)

• Demographic Sorting:

  • Americans are sticking to regions based on industry, education, and political preferences.
  • Over 40% of Americans say politics factor into relocation choices. (07:19)
  • Medical students avoiding states with strict abortion laws is cited as a recent example.

• The ‘Two-Body’ Problem and Household Income:

  • The rise of dual-income households makes moving decisions more complicated:
    • “Now imagine that there are more women in the workplace. So now it’s a two-body problem.” — Urvinila Kantan (07:53)
    • Prioritizing one career over another is harder, especially as the gender wage gap closes.
  • Median wages for women are now around 85% of men’s, compared to 75% in the 90s. (08:25)
  • “If both parents are making similar salaries, how do you pick whose career gets prioritized? Might be easier just to stay put.” — Stephen Bissaha (08:36)

• Regional Wage Differences Shrinking:

  • The difference in pay for similar jobs across states is much smaller than in past decades. (09:04)
    • “There’s less regional variation in wages and salaries.” — Urvinila Kantan (09:04)
  • For most jobs, good opportunities are available locally, reducing the incentive to move.

• Remote Work:

  • The pandemic led to a burst of moves due to remote work options, but now flexible arrangements allow people to change jobs without relocating. (09:41)

4. Who’s Still Moving, and Why?

• Some cities, like Huntsville, continue to attract newcomers, partly because of lower housing costs (30% cheaper than Colorado Springs, says WalletHub). (09:58)
• Personal Story – Sharonda Ware:
  • Despite initial reservations, Sharonda Ware moved from D.C. to Alabama and found unexpected positives:
    • “People are more willing to be like, ‘Good morning, you know, how are you? Oh, it’s raining out there.’ … I just love to be able to do that with other people, too.” — Sharonda Ware (10:29)
  • She’s since left the FBI and has no plans to move again: “Huntsville is home.” — Stephen Bissaha (11:02)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We’re in the era of homebodies. Americans are moving at around half the rate they were 30 years ago."
  — Waylon Wong (02:21)
• “Some people had, you know, shared custody arrangements, elderly parents. They were taken care of. There were just reasons why they couldn’t do it.”
  — Sharonda Ware (05:10)
• “Now imagine that there are more women in the workplace. So now it’s a two-body problem.”
  — Urvinila Kantan (07:53)
• “If both parents are making similar salaries, how do you pick whose career gets prioritized? Might be easier just to stay put.”
  — Stephen Bissaha (08:36)
• “There’s less regional variation in wages and salaries.”
  — Urvinila Kantan (09:04)
• “To me, I feel like people are more willing to be like, ‘Good morning, you know, how are you? Oh, it’s raining out there.’ … I just love to be able to do that with other people, too.”
  — Sharonda Ware (10:29)
• “Huntsville is home.”
  — Stephen Bissaha on Sharonda Ware’s decision to stay (11:02)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 01:24–02:32 — Introduction to the topic; recent changes in jobs data sources.
• 02:45–03:49 — (Advertisements skipped)
• 03:50–05:28 — The Huntsville, Alabama federal jobs relocation story.
• 05:37–06:43 — Broader trend of declining relocations for work—perspective from economist Urvinila Kantan.
• 06:47–08:51 — Reasons for moving less: industry/geography sorting, dual-income households, closing gender pay gap, family obligations.
• 09:04–09:25 — Regional wage gap shrinking.
• 09:41–09:54 — Impact of remote work on moving trends.
• 09:58–11:02 — Huntsville as a continuing destination; Sharonda Ware’s personal experience.

Tone & Style

The episode balances data-driven analysis with accessible explanations and personal anecdotes. The style is conversational, warm, and lightly humorous, especially in the rapport between Waylon and Stephen, and in Sharonda Ware’s storytelling.

Summary:
Americans' willingness to move for jobs has steadily declined, even as job prospects shift across regions. Family structure, the rise of dual-income households, shrinking regional wage disparities, and increased remote work flexibility all fuel this dramatic change in mobility. Through the example of Huntsville, Alabama, and insights from both economists and workers, ‘The Indicator’ gives a nuanced look at why the age of the "mobile American worker" may be over—and what that means for future generations.