Why Americans don't want to move for jobs anymore (Encore)

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

The Indicator from Planet Money
Episode: Why Americans Don't Want to Move for Jobs Anymore (Encore)
Date: December 31, 2025
Hosts: Waylon Wong & Stephen Bissaha
Featured Guests: Sharonda Ware (Former FBI Employee), Urvinila Kantan (Senior Policy Economist, Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond)
Episode Length (Content Only): ~10 minutes

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Overview:

This episode explores the ongoing decline in Americans moving for work—a significant shift from historic trends and the mythos of the mobile U.S. workforce. Hosts Waylon Wong and Stephen Bissaha dig into labor data, demographic changes, and personal stories, with a focus on how dual-income households and closing gender pay gaps play into the phenomenon, alongside a case study of Huntsville, Alabama.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shrinking American Migration for Jobs

• Americans are moving for jobs at about half the rate they did 30 years ago. (02:21)
  • "We’re in the era of homebodies." — Waylon Wong (02:21)
• Despite large employment booms and busts in different states (e.g., California gaining 25,000 jobs, Texas losing 10,000 in September), Americans aren’t chasing jobs the way they used to.

2. Case Study: Huntsville, Alabama

• Huntsville is a hotspot for defense and space jobs, historically involved in Saturn V rocket design and now a hub for major federal offices.
• Not all staff have followed federal relocations to Huntsville:
  • In 2018, when the FBI’s Finance and Facilities Division was moved from D.C. to Alabama, only about 10% of staff relocated. (05:20–05:26)
  • Factors for reluctance included family obligations, concerns about Alabama’s racial climate (especially for people of color), and personal ties.
  • “Some people had, you know, shared custody arrangements, elderly parents. They were taken care of. There were just reasons why they couldn’t do it.” — Sharonda Ware (05:10)
• Recent attempts to move U.S. Space Command from Colorado Springs raised similar retention worries.
  • Commanders feared “a majority of its 1,000 civilian workers, contractors and reservists might not relocate to Alabama.” — Stephen Bissaha (05:53)

3. National Trends: Why Are People Staying Put?

• Historical Shift: Moving for work used to be a common rite of passage.

  • "We just stopped seeing that, like such a traditional part of the life cycle is not happening anymore." — Urvinila Kantan (06:36)

• Demographic Sorting:

  • Americans are sticking to regions based on industry, education, and political preferences.
  • Over 40% of Americans say politics factor into relocation choices. (07:19)
  • Medical students avoiding states with strict abortion laws is cited as a recent example.

• The ‘Two-Body’ Problem and Household Income:

  • The rise of dual-income households makes moving decisions more complicated:
    • “Now imagine that there are more women in the workplace. So now it’s a two-body problem.” — Urvinila Kantan (07:53)
    • Prioritizing one career over another is harder, especially as the gender wage gap closes.
  • Median wages for women are now around 85% of men’s, compared to 75% in the 90s. (08:25)
  • “If both parents are making similar salaries, how do you pick whose career gets prioritized? Might be easier just to stay put.” — Stephen Bissaha (08:36)

• Regional Wage Differences Shrinking:

  • The difference in pay for similar jobs across states is much smaller than in past decades. (09:04)
    • “There’s less regional variation in wages and salaries.” — Urvinila Kantan (09:04)
  • For most jobs, good opportunities are available locally, reducing the incentive to move.

• Remote Work:

  • The pandemic led to a burst of moves due to remote work options, but now flexible arrangements allow people to change jobs without relocating. (09:41)

4. Who’s Still Moving, and Why?

• Some cities, like Huntsville, continue to attract newcomers, partly because of lower housing costs (30% cheaper than Colorado Springs, says WalletHub). (09:58)
• Personal Story – Sharonda Ware:
  • Despite initial reservations, Sharonda Ware moved from D.C. to Alabama and found unexpected positives:
    • “People are more willing to be like, ‘Good morning, you know, how are you? Oh, it’s raining out there.’ … I just love to be able to do that with other people, too.” — Sharonda Ware (10:29)
  • She’s since left the FBI and has no plans to move again: “Huntsville is home.” — Stephen Bissaha (11:02)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We’re in the era of homebodies. Americans are moving at around half the rate they were 30 years ago."
  — Waylon Wong (02:21)
• “Some people had, you know, shared custody arrangements, elderly parents. They were taken care of. There were just reasons why they couldn’t do it.”
  — Sharonda Ware (05:10)
• “Now imagine that there are more women in the workplace. So now it’s a two-body problem.”
  — Urvinila Kantan (07:53)
• “If both parents are making similar salaries, how do you pick whose career gets prioritized? Might be easier just to stay put.”
  — Stephen Bissaha (08:36)
• “There’s less regional variation in wages and salaries.”
  — Urvinila Kantan (09:04)
• “To me, I feel like people are more willing to be like, ‘Good morning, you know, how are you? Oh, it’s raining out there.’ … I just love to be able to do that with other people, too.”
  — Sharonda Ware (10:29)
• “Huntsville is home.”
  — Stephen Bissaha on Sharonda Ware’s decision to stay (11:02)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 01:24–02:32 — Introduction to the topic; recent changes in jobs data sources.
• 02:45–03:49 — (Advertisements skipped)
• 03:50–05:28 — The Huntsville, Alabama federal jobs relocation story.
• 05:37–06:43 — Broader trend of declining relocations for work—perspective from economist Urvinila Kantan.
• 06:47–08:51 — Reasons for moving less: industry/geography sorting, dual-income households, closing gender pay gap, family obligations.
• 09:04–09:25 — Regional wage gap shrinking.
• 09:41–09:54 — Impact of remote work on moving trends.
• 09:58–11:02 — Huntsville as a continuing destination; Sharonda Ware’s personal experience.

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Tone & Style

The episode balances data-driven analysis with accessible explanations and personal anecdotes. The style is conversational, warm, and lightly humorous, especially in the rapport between Waylon and Stephen, and in Sharonda Ware’s storytelling.

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Summary:
Americans' willingness to move for jobs has steadily declined, even as job prospects shift across regions. Family structure, the rise of dual-income households, shrinking regional wage disparities, and increased remote work flexibility all fuel this dramatic change in mobility. Through the example of Huntsville, Alabama, and insights from both economists and workers, ‘The Indicator’ gives a nuanced look at why the age of the "mobile American worker" may be over—and what that means for future generations.

Transcript

[Waylon Wong]

Hey, it's Waylon Wong. We're almost at the end of 2025. It's been a tough year for NPR and local stations. But despite the loss of federal funding for public media, despite attacks on the free press, we're still here for you. With your support, NPR will keep reporting the news. And here at THE Indicator, we'll keep explaining how the economy affects your life at home, at work, in your community and around the world. And of course, we'll do it in about 10 minutes every weekday. If you're already an NPR supporter, thank you so much. We see you and we're so grateful for you. If not, please join the community of public radio supporters right now before the end of the year at plus.npr.org Signing up unlocks a bunch of perks like bonus episodes and more from across NPR's podcasts. Plus, you get to feel good about supporting public media while you listen. Visit plus.NPR.org today.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Thanks. Happy New Year from THE Indicator. We have been running some of our favorite shows from the past year. Today's episode explores why Americans are moving less for work than they used to. We'll be back with a fresh episode of THE INDICATOR this Friday.

[Urvinila Kantan]

NPR.

[Waylon Wong]

This is the Indicator from Planet Money. I'm Wayland Wong, and I'm here with friend of the show Stephen Bissaha from the Gulf States newsroom.

[Stephen Bissaha]

It is good to be with you, Waylon. And you know, we're usually looking at the overall jobs picture on the show, but after the government shut down for 43 days this fall, we've had a less than clear picture of where things stand.

[Waylon Wong]

True, we've had to turn to the private sector, which has less comprehensive jobs data than the Bureau of Labor Statistics, but at least they've been releasing them on time. For example, we have Revelio Lab, which tracks workforce data.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Yeah, and Revelio's report also looks at state employment. And there's some pretty big differences depending on where you live. Like California gained about 25,000 jobs in September, while Texas lost 10,000. So with some parts of the country being more boom and others being more bust, you might imagine Americans packing up the U Haul and chasing down those opportunities across state lines.

[Waylon Wong]

But that's actually not happening, at least not as much as it used to. In fact, we're in the era of homebodies. Americans are moving at around half the rate they were 30 years ago.

[Stephen Bissaha]

So on today's show, why are Americans moving at a record low and how that's related to women getting better pay plus a trip to Huntsville, Alabama. We'll explain why after the break.

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[Stephen Bissaha]

You should know about Huntsville, Alabama, it's sort of this federal workforce mecca in the south, especially when it comes to defense and space.

[Waylon Wong]

It's the city that designed the Saturn V rockets that put the first man on the moon. And in more recent decades, tons of federal jobs and offices have moved to the city, like the Army Materiel Command, the Missile Defense Agency, and more than a thousand FBI jobs.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Now that does not mean all those moves went smoothly, like in 2018. At the time, the FBI's Finance and Facilities Division was based in D.C. the agency called in all of its roughly 100 workers from that division into an auditorium to share the news. Sharondaware was working in D.C. at the time.

[Sharonda Ware]

You know how they have these town halls and you know, there have been people lately who've been kind of like throwing rotten tomatoes, like, just really like Rama. That was what that was like.

[Waylon Wong]

So metaphorical tomatoes. But I can imagine the anger.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Yeah, they would not have to be told they had to leave D.C. for Alabama.

[Sharonda Ware]

And some people was like, no, I'm not, You know, and then there was some anger and there's some people who resigned.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Sharonda personally was concerned about Alabama's long history and reputation when it comes to.

[Sharonda Ware]

Race, you know, especially as a black woman, is this going to be a danger for my family or myself?

[Waylon Wong]

And for some workers, moving was just impossible.

[Sharonda Ware]

Some people had, you know, shared custody arrangements, elderly parents. They were taken care of. There were just reasons why they couldn't do it.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Do you know, like the percent of your division that decided to move to.

[Sharonda Ware]

Huntsville if I were to guess, like, only 10% moved.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Oh, that's small.

[Sharonda Ware]

Yeah, it was.

[Waylon Wong]

That 10% number matches what the FBI told us in an email. About 10 to 30% of its staff in the past agreed to relocate to Huntsville.

[Stephen Bissaha]

And this concern about people not relocating popped up again for Huntsville. President Trump announced he's moving Space Command there from Colorado Springs. Space Command's job is coordinating military operations in space, like defending US Satellites from attack.

[Waylon Wong]

The move to Huntsville has been talked about for years, and you can see those relocation worries in a report this year from the Defense Department Inspector General. It showed that command leadership worried a majority of its 1,000 civilian workers, contractors and reservists might not relocate to Alabama.

[Stephen Bissaha]

And before you think this is all about workers rejecting the south, it is not. American workers across the country have become more and more reluctant to move across state lines over the last 30 years.

[Waylon Wong]

Urvinila Kantan is a senior policy economist with the Federal Reserve bank of Richmond. She co authored a brief about this moving decline. And she says she got interested in this topic because moving away has always been a big part of the American story.

[Urvinila Kantan]

We just stopped seeing that, like such a traditional part of the life cycle is not happening anymore. And we really wanted to know why.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Depending on how you count, I think I've moved at least three times to different states for work.

[Waylon Wong]

I have two, and one of those was international.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Oh, you got me beat then.

[Waylon Wong]

But this was all like in my 20s before I had, you know, obligations that were tying me to a specific place, you know.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Yeah, that does help. And, you know, Irving's research did come up with a few reasons for the moving drop. One is that Americans have basically been more and more often sticking to certain parts of the country based on things like industry and education, like college. Grads are more likely to stay in cities. Tech Bros Are hanging out in the Bay Area. And Huntsville has been this gathering spot for engineers.

[Waylon Wong]

You can also say the US is more politically sorted, too. A realtor.com survey found that over 40% of Americans said politics influence where they decide to live. And we've talked on the show before about how medical students, for example, are choosing not to apply for residencies in states with abortion restrictions.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Another surprise reason Irvey gives for Americans staying put is that women are working more. Which might sound like a weird explanation, but hear us out and imagine a husband and a wife. Husband works outside the house, wife stays home.

[Urvinila Kantan]

So a moving decision based on work is only based on one spouse's job. Now imagine that there are more women in the workplace. So now it's a two body problem.

[Waylon Wong]

And there are more marriages where both partners are working. That means moving for one person's career might mean the other person having to give up their own. That is not an easy decision. So it makes sense those couples would be less likely to move.

[Stephen Bissaha]

It is a bit easier if one partner makes a lot more than the other. But that just leads us to another reason for the moving drop. The gender pay gap is closing.

[Waylon Wong]

The big caveat here is that median wages for women are still about 85% of what men get paid. But yes, that is better than in the 90s when it was more like 75%.

[Stephen Bissaha]

And if both parents are making similar salaries, how do you pick whose career gets prioritized? Might be easier just to stay put. And this all gets more complicated when you add a kid to the equation. I mean, you might want to stick close to the grandparents for that childcare support if both parents are working.

[Waylon Wong]

So there's a lot on the con side of the moving decision list. And Orvi says there are also fewer pros too, because when comparing similar jobs across different places, there isn't as much of a difference as there used to be.

[Urvinila Kantan]

There's less regional variation in wages and salaries.

[Waylon Wong]

Although, yes, New Yorkers still make a lot more on average than workers in Birmingham, Alabama.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Hey, though, we do have better crawfish boils.

[Waylon Wong]

Oh, you do have New Yorkers beat there. But generally, Orvi points to research that says when comparing similar jobs between states, the salary gap has been shrinking.

[Urvinila Kantan]

It used to be that people would throng to places where prospects were better, but as places get more, even then, there's less of a pull, you know, to move to better opportunities. Because now you can get good jobs at where you live right now.

[Waylon Wong]

There's also something interesting going on with remote work. You might remember a bunch of people moving because they had remote work possibilities in 2021. Now, today, people with flexible work arrangements can take a new job and stay put.

[Stephen Bissaha]

Of course, some people are still moving today, even if they're doing it less.

[Waylon Wong]

Yeah. So let's go back to Huntsville. The city is growing fast, and a big part of that is it's still relatively affordable. According to WalletHub, housing costs are about 30% lower than in Colorado Springs. That's where Space Command is moving from.

[Stephen Bissaha]

And remember Sharonda Ware, the FBI worker who was told she needs to leave D.C. for Huntsville? Well, she ended up making that move. She still has some concerns about racism in Alabama, but she was won over by the state's beautiful rivers and mountains and, and its culture.

[Sharonda Ware]

To me, I feel like people are more willing to be like, good morning, you know, how are you? Oh, it's raining out there. You know, just being able to talk to other people, that's my, that's how I am. So I just love to be able to do that with other people, too.

[Stephen Bissaha]

So that Southern hospitality got to you. Sharonda is no longer with the FBI. She took part in that federal deferred resignation program at the start of the year, and she's deciding with her husband what they're going to do next. One thing that's not in the cards is moving again. Huntsville is home.

[Waylon Wong]

This episode was produced by Julia Ritchie and engineered by Sina Lofredo. It was fact checked by Corey Bridges. Cake and Cannon is our show's editor and the indicator is a production of npr.

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