Podcast Summary: The Indicator from Planet Money

Episode: Why are so many public schools closing?
Date: September 24, 2025
Hosts: Wayland Wong, Adrienne Ma
Guests:

• Taylor Iyogo, Atlanta parent
• Tracy Richter, VP of Planning Services, HPM
• Erica Meltzer, National Editor, Chalkbeat

Overview

This episode delves into the growing phenomenon of public school closures across the United States. Through the stories of parents, industry experts, and education journalists, the hosts explore the economic, demographic, and policy-driven forces leading districts—like Atlanta Public Schools—to consider shuttering campuses. The show also highlights the deep impact on families and the concerted efforts by communities to fight for their neighborhood schools.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. A Parent’s Perspective – The Emotional Stakes

• Taylor Iyogo relocated to Atlanta and chose a home based on the strength and sense of community at West Manor Elementary.
• Taylor describes the school as a family-oriented environment:

  "West Manor is a place where the teachers and the staff, they know the kids by name, every single one. They know the parents, the grandparents, the aunties and uncles that come to pick them up..." (Taylor Iyogo, 00:43)

• The potential closure of West Manor was initially a rumor that quickly became a real threat as part of broader district-wide enrollment challenges.

2. Widespread Nature of the Issue

• Not limited to Atlanta; districts in states like Minnesota, Tennessee, and Texas are facing similar enrollment-driven closure discussions.
• The problem serves as a lens to examine larger social and economic changes.

3. Behind the Closures: Declining Enrollment & Economic Forces

A) The Role of Specialists

• Tracy Richter, often the “bearer of bad news,” assists districts with unoccupied or under-enrolled school buildings:

  "I just don't want to be known as a national expert on school closure, but unfortunately, this is the role that has found me in this time of my career." (Tracy Richter, 03:18)

• His company, HPM, currently advises Atlanta Public Schools, which has a capacity of 70,000 students but only enrolls 50,000. (04:03)

B) Why Enrollment is Falling

• Birth Rates: Major factor—US birth rate down over 20% since 2007, around the Great Recession.

  "I think that the birth rates are going to stay low. Obviously that's going to have some impact, but that's not all of it." (Tracy Richter, 04:31)

• Housing & Demographics: A shortage of affordable homes keeps young families out of cities. The “mortgage lock-in” issue means people with low-rate mortgages (often empty nesters) don’t move, preventing turnover to younger families.

  "Going to half the house at twice the mortgage and four times the interest rate isn't very attractive." (Tracy Richter, 05:16)

C) Financial Strain on Schools

• Schools’ per-pupil funding means fewer students equals less money, while fixed costs remain.
• Erica Meltzer clarifies the economic pressures:

  "This really comes down to, like, economies of scale for school districts... is the school operating in an efficient manner? Can they afford a nurse, an art teacher, a music teacher, a social worker? Or at the high school level, can you offer advanced classes...?" (Erica Meltzer, 06:04)

4. The “Death Spiral” of Enrollment Loss

• Minimal drops—just 5 or 10 students—can cause devastating program cuts, prompting more families to leave.

  "Sometimes the difference of just five or ten kids can be sort of that make or break point, because ... that starts to be several staff positions, like, can you have classroom aides?" (Erica Meltzer, 06:45)

5. COVID’s Delayed Effects & the Policy Landscape

• Pandemic-era emergency funding delayed school closures, but those funds are now spent. (07:25)
• Shift in federal policy: Emphasis on private school access/vouchers over public investment.
• New federal and state programs are expanding support for private school tuition but are not viewed as the primary cause of public school enrollment decline.

  "You have the individual choices that parents are making thinking about their kid, and then there's the system level effects of millions of individual choices. And then there's sort of the policy universe that creates the choices that are available to the parents." (Erica Meltzer, 08:08)

6. Community Organizing and Resistance

• In Atlanta, Taylor Iyogo and other parents are actively campaigning to prevent closures—with social media, signage, and public meetings.

  "Choosing your neighborhood public school is a choice, and many families, many young families are actively making that choice... It's like when you had a crush on somebody and you're like, I've been here the whole time." (Taylor Iyogo, 08:54)

• Taylor voices frustration on behalf of families who have stayed loyal to public schools:

  "So why are the families who are staying loyal to APS being punished with these closures?" (Taylor Iyogo, 09:22)

• Upcoming decisions: Atlanta Public Schools could vote on closures as soon as December. (09:29)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:43 | Taylor Iyogo | "West Manor is a place where the teachers and the staff, they know the kids by name, every single one." | | 03:18 | Tracy Richter | "I just don't want to be known as a national expert on school closure, but unfortunately, this is the role..." | | 04:31 | Tracy Richter | "I think that the birth rates are going to stay low. Obviously that's going to have some impact, but that's not all."| | 05:16 | Tracy Richter | "...but going to half the house at twice the mortgage and four times the interest rate isn't very attractive." | | 06:04 | Erica Meltzer | "...you start to have questions of is the school operating in an efficient manner? Can they afford a nurse..." | | 06:45 | Erica Meltzer | "Sometimes the difference of just five or ten kids can be sort of that make or break point..." | | 08:54 | Taylor Iyogo | "Choosing your neighborhood public school is a choice... It's like when you had a crush on somebody..." | | 09:22 | Taylor Iyogo | "So why are the families who are staying loyal to APS being punished with these closures?" | | 08:08 | Erica Meltzer | "You have the individual choices that parents are making thinking about their kid... and then there's the policy..." |

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:28 – Parent Taylor Iyogo shares how she chose her daughter’s school
• 01:32 – Introduction to the broader economic forces behind school closures
• 03:10 – Interview with Tracy Richter about consulting on school closures
• 04:13 – Deep dive into the reasons for falling enrollment
• 05:31 – The financial tightrope for under-enrolled schools
• 06:04 – Erica Meltzer on economies of scale and district challenges
• 07:25 – The impact of federal policy and pandemic funding
• 08:08 – Individual vs. systemic vs. policy effects on school choice
• 08:40 – Grassroots organizing to prevent school closures in Atlanta
• 09:29 – Next steps and timelines for closure decisions

Conclusion

The episode presents a nuanced look at the reasons so many public schools are closing: shrinking birth rates, tough housing markets, and shifting political priorities all combine to push districts into tough decisions with massive impacts on families and neighborhoods. At the heart of the issue are parents like Taylor Iyogo, who are fighting to keep their communities—and their schools—intact.