Why are so many public schools closing?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Indicator from Planet Money

Episode: Why are so many public schools closing?
Date: September 24, 2025
Hosts: Wayland Wong, Adrienne Ma
Guests:

• Taylor Iyogo, Atlanta parent
• Tracy Richter, VP of Planning Services, HPM
• Erica Meltzer, National Editor, Chalkbeat

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Overview

This episode delves into the growing phenomenon of public school closures across the United States. Through the stories of parents, industry experts, and education journalists, the hosts explore the economic, demographic, and policy-driven forces leading districts—like Atlanta Public Schools—to consider shuttering campuses. The show also highlights the deep impact on families and the concerted efforts by communities to fight for their neighborhood schools.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. A Parent’s Perspective – The Emotional Stakes

• Taylor Iyogo relocated to Atlanta and chose a home based on the strength and sense of community at West Manor Elementary.
• Taylor describes the school as a family-oriented environment:

  "West Manor is a place where the teachers and the staff, they know the kids by name, every single one. They know the parents, the grandparents, the aunties and uncles that come to pick them up..." (Taylor Iyogo, 00:43)

• The potential closure of West Manor was initially a rumor that quickly became a real threat as part of broader district-wide enrollment challenges.

2. Widespread Nature of the Issue

• Not limited to Atlanta; districts in states like Minnesota, Tennessee, and Texas are facing similar enrollment-driven closure discussions.
• The problem serves as a lens to examine larger social and economic changes.

3. Behind the Closures: Declining Enrollment & Economic Forces

A) The Role of Specialists

• Tracy Richter, often the “bearer of bad news,” assists districts with unoccupied or under-enrolled school buildings:

  "I just don't want to be known as a national expert on school closure, but unfortunately, this is the role that has found me in this time of my career." (Tracy Richter, 03:18)

• His company, HPM, currently advises Atlanta Public Schools, which has a capacity of 70,000 students but only enrolls 50,000. (04:03)

B) Why Enrollment is Falling

• Birth Rates: Major factor—US birth rate down over 20% since 2007, around the Great Recession.

  "I think that the birth rates are going to stay low. Obviously that's going to have some impact, but that's not all of it." (Tracy Richter, 04:31)

• Housing & Demographics: A shortage of affordable homes keeps young families out of cities. The “mortgage lock-in” issue means people with low-rate mortgages (often empty nesters) don’t move, preventing turnover to younger families.

  "Going to half the house at twice the mortgage and four times the interest rate isn't very attractive." (Tracy Richter, 05:16)

C) Financial Strain on Schools

• Schools’ per-pupil funding means fewer students equals less money, while fixed costs remain.
• Erica Meltzer clarifies the economic pressures:

  "This really comes down to, like, economies of scale for school districts... is the school operating in an efficient manner? Can they afford a nurse, an art teacher, a music teacher, a social worker? Or at the high school level, can you offer advanced classes...?" (Erica Meltzer, 06:04)

4. The “Death Spiral” of Enrollment Loss

• Minimal drops—just 5 or 10 students—can cause devastating program cuts, prompting more families to leave.

  "Sometimes the difference of just five or ten kids can be sort of that make or break point, because ... that starts to be several staff positions, like, can you have classroom aides?" (Erica Meltzer, 06:45)

5. COVID’s Delayed Effects & the Policy Landscape

• Pandemic-era emergency funding delayed school closures, but those funds are now spent. (07:25)
• Shift in federal policy: Emphasis on private school access/vouchers over public investment.
• New federal and state programs are expanding support for private school tuition but are not viewed as the primary cause of public school enrollment decline.

  "You have the individual choices that parents are making thinking about their kid, and then there's the system level effects of millions of individual choices. And then there's sort of the policy universe that creates the choices that are available to the parents." (Erica Meltzer, 08:08)

6. Community Organizing and Resistance

• In Atlanta, Taylor Iyogo and other parents are actively campaigning to prevent closures—with social media, signage, and public meetings.

  "Choosing your neighborhood public school is a choice, and many families, many young families are actively making that choice... It's like when you had a crush on somebody and you're like, I've been here the whole time." (Taylor Iyogo, 08:54)

• Taylor voices frustration on behalf of families who have stayed loyal to public schools:

  "So why are the families who are staying loyal to APS being punished with these closures?" (Taylor Iyogo, 09:22)

• Upcoming decisions: Atlanta Public Schools could vote on closures as soon as December. (09:29)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:43 | Taylor Iyogo | "West Manor is a place where the teachers and the staff, they know the kids by name, every single one." | | 03:18 | Tracy Richter | "I just don't want to be known as a national expert on school closure, but unfortunately, this is the role..." | | 04:31 | Tracy Richter | "I think that the birth rates are going to stay low. Obviously that's going to have some impact, but that's not all."| | 05:16 | Tracy Richter | "...but going to half the house at twice the mortgage and four times the interest rate isn't very attractive." | | 06:04 | Erica Meltzer | "...you start to have questions of is the school operating in an efficient manner? Can they afford a nurse..." | | 06:45 | Erica Meltzer | "Sometimes the difference of just five or ten kids can be sort of that make or break point..." | | 08:54 | Taylor Iyogo | "Choosing your neighborhood public school is a choice... It's like when you had a crush on somebody..." | | 09:22 | Taylor Iyogo | "So why are the families who are staying loyal to APS being punished with these closures?" | | 08:08 | Erica Meltzer | "You have the individual choices that parents are making thinking about their kid... and then there's the policy..." |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:28 – Parent Taylor Iyogo shares how she chose her daughter’s school
• 01:32 – Introduction to the broader economic forces behind school closures
• 03:10 – Interview with Tracy Richter about consulting on school closures
• 04:13 – Deep dive into the reasons for falling enrollment
• 05:31 – The financial tightrope for under-enrolled schools
• 06:04 – Erica Meltzer on economies of scale and district challenges
• 07:25 – The impact of federal policy and pandemic funding
• 08:08 – Individual vs. systemic vs. policy effects on school choice
• 08:40 – Grassroots organizing to prevent school closures in Atlanta
• 09:29 – Next steps and timelines for closure decisions

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Conclusion

The episode presents a nuanced look at the reasons so many public schools are closing: shrinking birth rates, tough housing markets, and shifting political priorities all combine to push districts into tough decisions with massive impacts on families and neighborhoods. At the heart of the issue are parents like Taylor Iyogo, who are fighting to keep their communities—and their schools—intact.

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Transcript

[Erica Meltzer]

Npr.

[Wayland Wong]

This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Wayland Wong.

[Adrienne Ma]

And I'm Adrienne Ma. A few years ago, Taylor Iyogo's family relocated from Washington, D.C. to Atlanta, Georgia. Taylor wanted to find a home near a good school for her daughter and Taylor, Taylor took this research really seriously.

[Taylor Iyogo]

I'm one of those people, I comb the data. I look at school performance, particularly for black children.

[Wayland Wong]

Taylor found a public school she really liked, West Manor Elementary School in southwest Atlanta. Her daughter started going there in kindergarten and it's been great.

[Taylor Iyogo]

West Manor is a place where the teachers and the staff, they know the kids by name, every single one. They know the parents, the grandparents, the aunties and uncles that come to pick them up whenever there's a holiday celebration. The auditorium is packed with families.

[Wayland Wong]

But Taylor heard a disturbing rumor at her daughter's kindergarten graduation. In the spring, West Manor might be closed as part of a broader effort by Atlanta Public Schools to address declining enrollment.

[Adrienne Ma]

And it turns out it wasn't just a rumor. The district is considering closing some schools. And it's not just Taylor's school in Atlanta that's potentially on the chopping block districts. Instead, states like Minnesota, Tennessee and Texas are grappling with the future of their public schools. So these conversations are happening all over the place right now.

[Wayland Wong]

Today on the show, we learn about how school closures are a sign of much larger forces at work in the economy. And we see how parents like Taylor are fighting to keep their kids schools open.

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[Adrienne Ma]

You ever see a movie or a TV show where There's a town hall meeting and then a bad guy like some out of town consultant parachutes into this meeting and everyone gets mad at them. Well, when it comes to public school closures, Tracy Richter is that guy.

[Wayland Wong]

I have to ask, how much of your job involves having to get up in front of a meeting of just enraged parents?

[Tracy Richter]

Well, that's, you know, it feels like, you know, in the last, I think three or four years especially, it is a big part of the work that I have to do. I just don't want to be known as a national expert on school closure, but unfortunately, this is the role that has found me in this time of my career.

[Adrienne Ma]

Tracy's official title is vice president of planning services for a company called HPM. HPM does construction management for different industries, including K through 12 education.

[Wayland Wong]

Tracy says that the happy part of his job is advising districts on projects like building a new school. The grim part, and the one that he's doing more of these days, is helping districts figure out what to do with school buildings that don't have enough students in them.

[Adrienne Ma]

Atlanta Public Schools is one of Tracy's current clients. And while the district has a capacity for 70,000 students, the enrollment is just 50,000.

[Wayland Wong]

Tracey points to a couple reasons for the drop in enrollment, not just in Atlanta, but across the country. Number one, and this is the big one, families are having fewer children. The birth rate in the US has fallen more than 20% since 2007. That's the year the Great Recession officially started.

[Tracy Richter]

I think that the birth rates are going to stay low. Obviously that's going to have some impact, but that's not all of it.

[Adrienne Ma]

That brings us to a second reason behind falling enrollment, which is housing. Tracy says a lack of affordable housing options in large metro areas is keeping young families away. And there's also this mortgage lock in problem, which is something we talked about on the show before. That's where homeowners who borrowed money at low interest rates a few years ago are staying put. And this is because they don't want to take out a new loan at a much higher interest rate.

[Wayland Wong]

These stuck homeowners include empty nesters. Under normal circumstances, they would downsize, maybe sell their home to a family with school age children. But this isn't happening. And Tracy understands this firsthand.

[Tracy Richter]

Three years ago, I had, you know, two kids in high school. Now they're off and I don't have any. But I have this house that I raised them in. That's likely too large for me and my wife, but going to half the house at twice the mortgage and four times the interest rate isn't very attractive.

[Adrienne Ma]

Combine the falling birth rate with a difficult housing market, and you get some communities with fewer students. This poses an existential problem for public schools because part of their state and federal funding is based on per pupil enrollment. Fewer students means less money coming in, while certain expenses, like building maintenance, they stay constant.

[Wayland Wong]

Erica Meltzer is the national editor at Chalkbeat. It's a nonprofit news organization that covers education. And she says low enrollment is a widespread problem right now for public school districts of all sizes.

[Erica Meltzer]

This really comes down to, like, economies of scale for school districts. For a lot of these communities, you start to have questions of is the school operating in an efficient manner? Can they afford a nurse, an art teacher, a music teacher, a social worker? Or at the high school level, can you offer advanced classes, robust career and technical education? And increasingly, the answer is no.

[Adrienne Ma]

Erica says it doesn't take a big exodus of students to put a school into a death spiral. It it can happen when falling enrollment leads to cuts in programs and services. That leads to more families leaving, which means less government funding and more cuts.

[Erica Meltzer]

Sometimes the difference of just five or ten kids can be sort of that make or break point, because if you have, you know, $10,000 per student, that's $50,000 or $100,000. And that starts to be several staff positions, like, can you have classroom aides? It can be as little as five or 10 students in the overall enrollment of a school that become the point where they can no longer offer a robust range of services.

[Wayland Wong]

School closures can be really disruptive to families. Students may lose connections they've made with friends and teachers. And research has linked closures with negative effects on academic performance.

[Adrienne Ma]

Erica says the pandemic delayed a reckoning for some school districts because they received emergency federal funding. But today that money has been spent. And Erica says the Trump administration has prioritized access to private schools over investment in public education. And in fact, the huge tax and spending bill the president signed this year, it created a federal program to help families pay for private school.

[Wayland Wong]

The federal program is the first of its kind, and it comes amid a major uptick in statewide private school programs. Still, Erica says she doesn't believe those vouchers are a main cause of the public school enrollment decline. But these programs are expanding, and that adds a new dimension to the school closure conversations happening around the country.

[Erica Meltzer]

You have the individual choices that parents are making thinking about their kid, and then there's the system level effects of millions of individual choices. And then there's sort of the policy universe that creates the choices that are available to the parents.

[Adrienne Ma]

Taylor Iyogo, the Atlanta parent we heard from earlier, she wants her daughter's elementary school to continue being an option. Otherwise her daughter would essentially have to start over at a new school. Now, private school vouchers are available in Georgia, but Taylor is not sure she wants to do that.

[Wayland Wong]

In the meantime, Taylor has joined up with other parents in APS Atlanta Public Schools to campaign for keeping the school open. They have an official Save West Manor Instagram and website. They got lawn signs made, and they've been going to community meetings.

[Taylor Iyogo]

In this conversation about school choice, you know, people talk about charters or they talk about private school, but choosing your neighborhood public school is a choice, and many families, many young families are actively making that choice. We have some great schools. You have passionate families about our schools. You know, it kind of feels the best way I can describe it. It's like when you had a crush on somebody and you're like, I've been here the whole time. Right? Like I've been rooting for you this whole time.

[Erica Meltzer]

Yeah.

[Taylor Iyogo]

So, like, so why are the families who are staying loyal to APS being punished with these closures?

[Adrienne Ma]

Parents like Taylor will be making their final push to save schools over the next couple of months. And then Atlanta public school officials could vote on a plan as soon as December.

[Wayland Wong]

This episode was produced by Julia Ritchie with engineering by Robert Rodriguez. It was fact checked by Sierra Juarez and edited by Kate Concannon. The indicator is a production of npr.

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