Why do shrimpers like tariffs?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Indicator from Planet Money Episode Title: Why do shrimpers like tariffs? Host: Adrian Ma, NPR
Release Date: May 7, 2025

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Introduction to the Shrimping Industry Decline

The episode opens with host Adrian Ma highlighting a pressing issue facing American shrimpers: the decline in their numbers due to competition from cheap imported shrimp. Steven Besaha joins Ma to explore why tariffs, typically seen as harmful to the economy, are celebrated by shrimpers.

The Shrimping Crisis: Declining Numbers and Economic Pressures

Decline in Shrimpers: American shrimp consumption remains high, with each person eating approximately six pounds of shrimp annually. Despite this demand, the number of shrimpers has plummeted from nearly 7,000 in Louisiana 25 years ago to fewer than 1,500 today.

“Americans eat a lot of shrimp, about six pounds per person each year. That is literally hundreds of shrimp a person.”
— Adrian Ma [01:17]

Impact of Imported Shrimp: The significant drop in domestic shrimpers is primarily attributed to the influx of cheap shrimp from countries like Ecuador, India, and Vietnam. These imports have made it economically unsustainable for U.S. shrimpers to compete.

“US Shrimpers say they just can't afford to compete, which is why a lot of those shrimpers are huge fans of tariffs.”
— Adrian Ma [01:52]

Personal Stories: The Human Side of Shrimping

A.C. Cooper’s Story: A.C. Cooper, a fourth-generation shrimper from Louisiana, shares his personal connection to the industry. Shrimping is depicted as a family legacy, deeply ingrained in his life.

“I've been shrimping for four generations, and I actually raised my own kids on my baby blue boat, the Lacy K.”
— A.C. Cooper [04:17]

Decline Witnessed: Cooper laments the dwindling number of active shrimp boats, reminiscing about busier times with numerous boats and a thriving community.

“But today we on our end of the pier, right where it starts, there used to be many boats... now there's only two boats tied up on the other side of me.”
— A.C. Cooper [05:02]

Tariffs: A Double-Edged Sword

Support for Tariffs: Shrimpers like Cooper strongly support tariffs imposed on imported shrimp, viewing them as essential for protecting their livelihoods. The recent executive orders by President Trump to implement additional tariffs have been met with enthusiasm.

“We definitely support him. There's no doubt we support him 100% on this issue.”
— A.C. Cooper [05:43]

Economic Opposition to Tariffs: Contrastingly, Martin Smith, a seafood economist at Duke University, opposes tariffs, arguing they are detrimental to the broader economy and public health. Smith highlights that tariffs would increase shrimp prices, reducing consumption and negatively impacting American diets.

“Tariffs are just the wrong way to go about it.”
— Martin Smith [07:01]

Health Implications: Smith emphasizes the importance of affordable shrimp in the American diet, noting that seafood is a vital source of protein that can reduce the risk of heart disease.

“Seafood is a rich source of protein that can reduce the risk of heart disease, and Americans should be eating more of it.”
— Martin Smith [07:13]

Economic Trade-offs: Free Trade vs. Protectionism

The discussion delves into the fundamental economic debate between free trade and protectionism. Shrimpers argue that tariffs are necessary to shield American workers, while economists like Smith contend that protectionism leads to higher consumer prices and reduced dietary benefits.

“There are winners and losers when you do these sorts of things.”
— Martin Smith [09:20]

World Bank's Role: American shrimpers criticize international development efforts, such as those by the World Bank, for subsidizing foreign shrimp farming. They argue that these initiatives create unfair competition for domestic shrimpers.

“American shrimpers say their own country is supporting the very foreign competition they're struggling against.”
— Steven Besaha [08:46]

Personal and Community Impact

Family and Financial Struggles: The personal toll of the shrimping industry's decline is illustrated by Cooper’s story of his son leaving the business due to financial unsustainability.

“One of my sons had to leave the business because I could no longer support his family financially.”
— Adrian Ma [10:50]

Long-Term Solutions: Cooper advocates for a long-term fix through capping shrimp imports to prevent foreign competitors from overwhelming American shrimpers.

“Don't let them bring in shrimp where they overwhelm us... We gotta find something else. We're gonna stand up for what we believe in.”
— A.C. Cooper [10:29]

Conclusion: Navigating the Future of Shrimping

The episode concludes by highlighting the ongoing struggle of American shrimpers who are caught between maintaining affordable seafood for consumers and protecting their own livelihoods. The differing perspectives of shrimpers and economists underscore the complex trade-offs inherent in trade policies.

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Notable Production Credits:

• Produced by: Lily Quiros with help from Drew Hawkins
• Engineered by: Maggie Luthar
• Fact-Checked by: Sierra Juarez
• Edited by: Cake and Cannon
• Production of: The Indicator, NPR

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Disclaimer: This summary captures the key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions from the podcast episode "Why do shrimpers like tariffs?" by The Indicator from Planet Money, hosted by Adrian Ma. For full details and nuanced arguments, listening to the original episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Adrian Ma]

Quick note before we start today's show, you might have heard that President Trump has issued an executive order seeking to block all federal funding to npr. This is the latest in a series of threats to media organizations across the country. And meanwhile, millions of people, people like you, depend on the NPR network as a vital source for news and entertainment and on the indicator as a source to explain our economy. And listen, we're proud to be here for you. And now, more than ever, we need you to be here for us. Visit donate.NPR.org now to give. And if you already support us via NPR or other means, thank you, npr.

[Steven Besaha]

Americans love shrimp. In fact, we eat shrimp more than any other seafood.

[Adrian Ma]

I guess I am the exception here because I don't love shrimp.

[Steven Besaha]

Oh, come on, Adrian. I mean, like what? Like no shrimp scampi, no shrimp fried rice? Not even a shrimp taco?

[Adrian Ma]

Yeah, not so much. I think it's a textural thing. Like, it has a bounciness that doesn't quite jive with me.

[Martin Smith]

Oh, bouncy.

[Steven Besaha]

That's not something I heard on Top Chef before.

[Adrian Ma]

Yeah, but it is true that Americans eat a lot of shrimp, about six pounds per person each year. That is literally hundreds of shrimp a person.

[Steven Besaha]

All that shrimp love makes it all the more surprising that the Americans who actually catch shrimp are disappearing. There were less than 1500 Shrimpers in Louisiana last year. A quarter of a century earlier, there were nearly 7,000, according to state records. And a large reason for this drop is is cheap imported shrimp. US Shrimpers say they just can't afford.

[Adrian Ma]

To compete, which is why a lot of those shrimpers are huge fans of tariffs. This is the indicator for Planet Money. I'm Adrian Ma, and today we're on another road trip with friend of the show, Steven Besaha from the Gulf States.

[Steven Besaha]

Newsroom, always happy to play tour guide. And today we are off to the Louisiana bayou. We'll meet a shrimper who will tell us why this industry is the rare one celebrating tariffs. And we ask a seafood economist if this is the kind of tariff they can support. So let's get sizzling or bouncing. Yeah, bounce along. Down.

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[Lily Quiros]

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[Adrian Ma]

Shrimping is one of these jobs that you're kind of born into.

[Steven Besaha]

Yeah, it's in your blood, is how A.C. cooper described it. A.C. can count back four generations of shrimping in his family and actually raised his own kids on his baby blue boat, the Lacy K. My wife was.

[A.C. Cooper]

My deckhand and we'd rain the kids on the boat and I'd with them little plastic swimming pools and they would swim in the daytime and then at night my wife would dry it out and put all three of them in it and they would sleep in a little swimming pool under the bow. That way they wouldn't get wet while we worked.

[Adrian Ma]

So you could see, for ac, shrimping is a family affair. He even named his boat the Lacy K after his wife and daughter. Now his boat is docked at a harbor in the Louisiana bayou and he says he can remember a time when there were about 20 boats around.

[A.C. Cooper]

But today we on our end of the pier, right where it starts at, these dogs used to be full and if you look down now there's two boats that's tied up on the other side of me and there's nobody else behind us. Nobody.

[Steven Besaha]

AC blames its decline on shrimp imported from countries like Ecuador, India and Vietnam. And in fact, an investigation by the U.S. international Trade Commission found those countries subsidized their shrimp exports. That pushed down the price of shrimp and harmed US Shrimpers.

[Adrian Ma]

Now towards the end of the Biden administration, they put targeted tariffs on shrimp from those countries. And when President Donald Trump announced his additional global tariffs, shrimpers like AC celebrated.

[A.C. Cooper]

Oh, we jumping. You know, we definitely support him. There's no doubt we support him 100% on this issue.

[Adrian Ma]

Now, we have done a lot of stories talking to economists about how tariffs can harm workers and businesses, but we wanted to see if this was a case of an exception, a case where economists could say that this is actually a correct way to use tariffs. So, Stephen, you actually called up a seafood economist.

[Steven Besaha]

How do you like your shrimp?

[Unnamed Seafood Economist]

Sadly, I'm allergic to shrimp.

[Steven Besaha]

Oh, no.

[Unnamed Seafood Economist]

I know. It's devastating.

[Adrian Ma]

Sounds like a professional hazard.

[Steven Besaha]

That is Martin Smith, and despite his allergy, he is, in fact, a seafood economist at Duke University. Now, Martin does agree with the shrimpers that the main thing harming their industry is foreign imports, the real price.

[Unnamed Seafood Economist]

So when we in. In economics, when we talk about real prices, we're inflation adjusting. The real price of shrimp is dramatically lower today than it was 40 years ago.

[Adrian Ma]

We checked. And, yeah, the real price of shrimp today is about 40% lower than it was at the start of the 90s.

[Steven Besaha]

But while Martin and Acey might agree on the cause of the problem, they don't agree on the solution. Because along with shellfish, Martin has another allergy, this one to tariffs.

[Unnamed Seafood Economist]

Tariffs are just the wrong way to go about it.

[Steven Besaha]

We often talk about the toll of tariffs on the American wallet. Martin says we should also be considering their toll on the American diet, and.

[Adrian Ma]

He says that's because seafood is a rich source of protein that can reduce the risk of heart disease, and Americans should be eating more of it.

[Steven Besaha]

Our vegetarian friends, y'all get a pass on this one. But in general, Americans aren't getting their two weekly servings of seafood the USDA recommends.

[Unnamed Seafood Economist]

We love our shrimp. We love our salmon. We eat a lot of it. We still fall short of the USDA dietary guidelines on seafood consumption.

[Steven Besaha]

So, Adrian, I know you're skipping the shrimp, but are you getting your, you know, two weekly servings of seafood in another way?

[Adrian Ma]

I don't think so. But on the upside, I guess that means I'm, like, not getting my daily dose of microplastics either.

[Steven Besaha]

I'm sure they're finding their other ways into the system.

[Adrian Ma]

It's probably true. Yeah.

[Steven Besaha]

Well, I have been working on getting better at eating more seafood, and honestly, the cheap price of shrimp has helped.

[Adrian Ma]

Yeah, I read that one shrimper actually called this trend the chickenization of shrimp.

[Steven Besaha]

Yeah, shrimp has really gone from this luxury purchase to a common buy, which is why Martin says raising the price of shrimp with tariffs would be bad for Americans health. Even if a price hike would help.

[Unnamed Seafood Economist]

Shrimpers, you're going to drive up prices, and you're going to drive down seafood consumption and that's going to be bad for cardiovascular health and overall the health of Americans.

[Adrian Ma]

And if it sounds like at this point that we are straying away from economics, what we're really talking about here are the trade offs between free trade and protectionism. The trade off between cheaper products for the American consumer versus shielding the American worker.

[Steven Besaha]

American shrimpers say this goes beyond free trade. They say for the last 50 years, international development groups like the World bank funded and propped up international shrimp farming. The goal was to create jobs and boost the economies of countries in Asia and South America.

[Adrian Ma]

The US Is the largest shareholder for the World Bank. So American shrimpers say their own country is supporting the very foreign competition they're struggling against.

[Steven Besaha]

Yeah. Martin says this competition is actually just another trade off when trying to develop the economies of other countries.

[Unnamed Seafood Economist]

I mean, this is a little bit of a philosophical question. Is there no case to be made that we should share some of what we have with people who are, who are so desperately poor that we can barely even imagine it? Does it make sense for the world to collectively work on developing new technologies that can help to feed people? My answer to that is yes. I'm an economist. I'm looking at the big picture. Are there winners and losers when you do these sorts of things? Absolutely.

[Adrian Ma]

This is also the phrase that economists often use to describe the consequences of free trade. There are winners and losers.

[Steven Besaha]

Gulf coast shrimpers have been on the losing end of that equation for a long while. AC Cooper has fought for more than 20 years to change that and now believes there's the right man in the White House to make it happen.

[A.C. Cooper]

Hopefully Trump does it. You know, I voted for him. I voted for him the first time I was a Democrat. I changed my party. I went to Republican. I'm not, I can't sit here and watch what's going on in this country and think it's going to be okay because it's not.

[Adrian Ma]

What AC really wants as a long term fix is a cap on shrimp imports.

[A.C. Cooper]

Don't let them bring into where they overwhelm us. And look, everybody needs to make money. I understand that, but you can't just take and just kick us aside and say you're not worthy enough of having your job to make a living. You gotta find something else. We're gonna stand up for what we believe in and we doing that.

[Adrian Ma]

But a lot of shrimpers have not been able to stick it out. For example, AC says one of his sons, you know, one of the boys he raised on his shrimping boat that was playing the little kiddie pool. That son had to leave the business because AC says he could no longer support his family financially. Shrimping this episode was produced by Lily Quiros with help from Drew Hawkins. It was engineered by Maggie Luthar and fact checked by Sierra Juarez. Cake and Cannon edits the show in the Indicators of production of NPR.

[Lily Quiros]

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