Waylon Wong (3:04)

This has been a pretty eventful month for corporate America, even by the standards of Trump's second term. It started with the US attack on Venezuela and Trump pressuring US oil companies to invest there, and then sniping at ExxonMobil after its CEO called the country uninvestable.

Co-host/Reporter (3:20)

Then, last week, Trump went to the.

Maria Aspen (3:22)

World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. He threw a private reception there for.

Co-host/Reporter (3:27)

CEOs, but he pointedly left some big names off the invite list.

Waylon Wong (3:32)

Trump was also more than 90 minutes late to his own party, according to the Wall Street Journal.

Co-host/Reporter (3:36)

And there were no chairs.

Waylon Wong (3:38)

I read that. High tables only.

Co-host/Reporter (3:41)

Now, the Journal reported that Jamie Dimon was invited to this White House reception, but he had to leave before Trump got there because diamond had to go host a party for his own company.

Waylon Wong (3:52)

This is like a Jane Austen novel where there's very intense drama about who snubs whom at a party.

Maria Aspen (3:57)

Waylon, are you saying President Trump is Mr. Darcy?

Waylon Wong (4:00)

He reminds me more of Lady Catherine de Bourgh.

Co-host/Reporter (4:02)

That is such a good. Such a good example or analogy.

Waylon Wong (4:07)

But dance cards aside, this was all happening at a time when the public relationship between Trump and Dimon seems to be getting more tense.

Co-host/Reporter (4:15)

Now, Dimon runs the country's biggest bank.

Maria Aspen (4:17)

And he's been more outspoken than most.

Co-host/Reporter (4:20)

CEOs during the past year by the.

Waylon Wong (4:22)

Very mild standards of corporate America. Take this reaction to Trump's tariffs last year.

Jamie Dimon (4:27)

Yeah, I'm taking a calm view, but I think it could get worse if we don't make some progress here. And, of course, you know, for a.

Maria Aspen (4:34)

While last year, it seemed like Dimon.

Co-host/Reporter (4:36)

Could speak that truth to Trump's power and be heard. But more recently, something seems to have soured between the two men.

Waylon Wong (4:44)

Dimon has continued saying that the Federal Reserve should stay independent at a time when Trump is trying to take control of the central bank.

Co-host/Reporter (4:52)

Trump has also proposed putting that cap on credit card interest rates, which would hurt JPMorgan Chase's business at Davos. Last week, Dimon said this.

Jamie Dimon (5:00)

It would be a economic disaster. I think it's wrong for the government to get involved extensively in pricing of stuff, but, you know, I gotta deal with the world.

Waylon Wong (5:09)

I got a day Later, Trump hit JPMorgan Chase and Jamie Dimon personally with a lawsuit seeking $5 billion in damages.

Co-host/Reporter (5:17)

The lawsuit was ostensibly about some of his long simmering grievances against JPMorgan Chase and several other banks. Trump claims that these banks closed his accounts after the January 6 riots by his supporters in 2021 because the banks didn't like his politics.

Waylon Wong (5:34)

But Trump has been complaining about this for years. He only filed the lawsuit after Jamie Dimon called one of his newer proposals an economic disaster and he sued dimon personally.

Maria Aspen (5:45)

A JPMorgan Chase spokesperson said in a statement the lawsuit is without merit and.

Co-host/Reporter (5:50)

That the bank doesn't close accounts for.

Maria Aspen (5:52)

Political or religious reasons. The bank declined to comment on Dimon's relationship with Trump.

Co-host/Reporter (5:58)

Meanwhile, the White House declined to comment on Trump's relationship with Dimon.

Waylon Wong (6:02)

Oh, all of a sudden no one has anything to say. Now JPMorgan Chase is the biggest bank in the country and Dimon's been running it for two decades. They should be just fine.

Maria Aspen (6:12)

But if this is an example of.

Co-host/Reporter (6:13)

The cost of speaking out against Trump, a lot of other companies and CEOs.

Maria Aspen (6:19)

Are choosing the path of least resistance.

Daniela Belew Ayres (6:22)

You don't want to say anything unless it's like, clearly, exactly in your core interest, in your core business, and at no risk.

Maria Aspen (6:29)

That's Daniela Belew Ayres. She's an entrepreneur and consultant who worked.

Co-host/Reporter (6:33)

In the Obama administration.

Maria Aspen (6:35)

Now she runs the Leadership Now Project.

Co-host/Reporter (6:37)

A coalition of business leaders.

Waylon Wong (6:40)

In October, her group and the Harris Poll surveyed business leaders across the political spectrum. They found that 84% are worried about how the current political and legal climate will affect their businesses.

Maria Aspen (6:51)

We're hearing this a lot from CEO surveys in private, executives are pretty worried.

Co-host/Reporter (6:57)

In public, they don't want to talk about it.

Daniela Belew Ayres (7:00)

What we have right now is a lot of personalized decision making, chaotic decision making, instability that we're seeing the cost of.

Waylon Wong (7:08)

That said, from a business perspective, the past year has had some payoffs for corporate America. Profits are up, the stock market is up, and Trump's tax and spending law will largely benefit businesses.

Maria Aspen (7:19)

So in the short term, business leaders do have some reason to be happy.

Co-host/Reporter (7:24)

As long as Trump isn't paying too much attention to their industry.

Waylon Wong (7:28)

In the sectors where Trump is paying a lot of attention, some CEOs are going out of their way to court him. Take the big tech companies that are giving him fancy golden gifts and donating to his ballroom. Or showing up to a private White House screening of first lady Melania.

Maria Aspen (7:42)

Trump's new documentary as Indicator Listeners Know.

Co-host/Reporter (7:45)

This has some political commentators, including Daniella.

Maria Aspen (7:49)

Ringing the alarm bell over crony capitalism.

Co-host/Reporter (7:52)

That's a corrupt system in which businesses rise and fall based on how much a political leader likes them.

Daniela Belew Ayres (7:59)

Some American business leaders have been, from our perspective, naive about where that type of engagement with government can ultimately go.

Waylon Wong (8:11)

In the most extreme cases of crony capitalism, it doesn't go anywhere good for the broader economy or for individual business leaders who ultimately fall out of favor.

Co-host/Reporter (8:21)

I talked about some of this with the White House official who agreed to speak with me on condition of anonymity and who largely dismissed claims of crony capitalism. The official calls Trump's policies, by and.

Maria Aspen (8:32)

Large, the traditional free market policymaking that.

Co-host/Reporter (8:35)

You would expect coming out of a Republican administration.

Waylon Wong (8:39)

Some of what's going on with business leaders is about more than Trump. Even before he was reelected, companies wanted to be talking less about politics in public.

Maria Aspen (8:48)

That is probably a pretty futile hope.

Co-host/Reporter (8:51)

As we are seeing in Minnesota right now.

Waylon Wong (8:53)

Big companies have mostly tried to avoid weighing in on the federal government's violent immigration crackdown. But then federal officers shot and killed Alex Preddy in Minneapolis this weekend. Now, Minnesota CEOs have put out a very carefully worded letter calling for, quote, an immediate de escalation of tensions.

Maria Aspen (9:13)

This won't be the last time that.

Co-host/Reporter (9:14)

Business leaders will be expected to wield.

Maria Aspen (9:16)

Their power during Trump's presidency. Right now they're mostly focused on the costs of speaking up, but there are also long term costs to staying silent.

Waylon Wong (9:29)

This episode was produced by Angel Carreras with engineering by Robert Rodriguez. It was fact checked by Sierra Juarez and edited by Julia Ritchie. Katkin Cannon is our show's editor and the indicator is a production of npr.

Sponsor/Ad Reader (9:43)

This message comes from Rosetta Stone making learning a second language easy. Unlock your learning potential. Receive 50% off a lifetime membership with unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit rosettastone.com NPR this message comes from Bombus. You need better socks and slippers and underwear because you should love what you wear every day. One purchased equals one donated. Go to bombus.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off.

Sponsor/Ad Reader (10:18)

This message comes from EasyCater, the workplace food platform. EZCATER helps organizations order food from favorite restaurants, meet dietary needs and stay on budget with employee meal programs, flexible payment options and 247 customer support all on one platform. Learn more@easycater.com.