Why moms are leaving their paid jobs

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: "Why Moms Are Leaving Their Paid Jobs"

Podcast: The Indicator from Planet Money
Host: Waylon Wong, Darian Woods
Date: September 5, 2025
Episode Description: This episode explores the recent trend of mothers leaving or scaling back from paid employment, drawing on fresh labor market data and first-hand stories. It examines the economic and personal factors that explain why many working moms are reconsidering their relationship with work, featuring insights from economist Misty Hegenes.

---

Main Theme & Purpose

The episode dives into the reasons behind a notable decline in labor force participation among mothers, especially those with young children, using both statistical insights and personal stories. The conversation touches on broader labor market trends, the effects of workplace policies since the pandemic, and what these patterns say about the overall health of the U.S. economy.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Latest Jobs Data: A "Holding Pattern" Amidst Change

• Labor Market Stats (00:14):
  • In August 2025, the U.S. added only 22,000 jobs, with unemployment edging up to 4.3%, a four-year high.
  • Despite stagnation overall, certain groups—particularly mothers—are increasingly leaving paid work.

"The data suggests that the overall labor market is in this holding pattern... Beneath the surface though, there are groups of people who are leaving the workforce and one of those groups is mothers."
—Waylon Wong (00:38)

---

2. Firsthand Stories: Why Moms Are Opting Out

Nicole Damstetter: Prioritizing Irreplaceable Moments

• Nicole, a tech professional in Orlando, chose to leave her job to spend more time with her preschool-aged daughter.
• She shares how valuing this limited period in her child’s life drove her decision.

"I started to think ahead and realized I’ve only got a little time left before [she] starts real, you know, big kid school... And I don’t want to miss this."
—Nicole Damstetter (02:49)

• Nicole and her daughter marked the change with a countdown calendar for "mommy all the time days" and now fully embrace creative play together.

---

Ivy Abed: The Limits of Flexibility

• Ivy, a science educator in Chicago, found it impossible to balance full-time work with the needs of her daughter (with a medical condition) and her mother (developing memory issues).
• Despite attempts at flexible work arrangements, she ultimately shifted to a part-time community college role for more autonomy, but took a significant pay cut.

"I’m doing the same kind of work that would be earning $45 or $50 an hour... But as a part-time employee... I have to get paid half as much."
—Ivy Abed (07:04)

• Ivy notes that while the reduction in income is difficult, she values the ability to care for her family and herself.

---

Rosie Nestingen: Redefining Work and Self-Worth

• Rosie from Minneapolis lost her corporate job during maternity leave, which set her on a path to reevaluate her career.
• After health issues and time away, she’s returned to work with a more limited schedule and a new philosophy: to model a healthier, more inclusive approach to work for her daughter.

"I really try to situate myself in spaces where those things exist and are true... I’m not the black person in the room that has to tell you why you should care about diversity. Like, I can’t do that anymore."
—Rosie Nestingen (09:39)

---

3. The Data Behind the Stories: Trends in Workforce Participation

• Recent Decline (03:45, 04:47):

  • Between January and June 2025, labor force participation among moms with children under five dropped from 70% to 67%, after peaking at 71% in 2023.
  • The pandemic had pushed more mothers into paid employment, thanks to flexible and remote work options.

• Reversal of Progress (05:20):

  • The end of pandemic-era flexibility, especially due to "return to office" mandates, is pushing some mothers out.
  • Even when options are available, care responsibilities can outweigh the value of flexible or part-time work due to lower pay and unpredictable demands.

"What we're seeing now is... some of the larger employers... have really pushed on this idea of return to office. And I think it's had an unintended consequence on caregivers’ ability to work."
—Darian Woods (05:20)

---

4. Economic Vulnerabilities: Black Moms and Leading Indicators

• Black Moms at Greater Risk (07:48):
  • Black women, often concentrated in lower-paid and less secure jobs, face higher unemployment (6.7% in August vs. 4.3% overall), and take longer to re-enter the labor force.

"Black women especially, tend to be overrepresented in jobs with lower pay and less security. And it takes them, on average, longer to find work after being unemployed."
—Waylon Wong (07:48)

• Moms as Economic Sentinels (08:09):
  • Declines among mothers with young children serve as an early warning for broader labor market health; they are usually first pushed out in downturns.

"These moms with kids under five is definitely like a canary in the coal mine... they're the ones that will be first to get pushed out."
—Darian Woods (08:09)

---

5. Broader Implications & Calls for Change

• Diverse Experiences:

  • Not all mothers leave for the same reasons; some choose to, others are forced by circumstances or a lack of accommodating workplace policies.
  • The reshuffling is prompting many women to rethink the role of work in their lives.

• Policy Solutions Needed (09:58):

  • Economist Misty Hegenes emphasizes the need for more affordable childcare and greater workplace flexibility to keep mothers engaged in paid work.

"These conversations are what economist Misty Haganess said should be happening among employers and policymakers. She hopes those conversations will lead to efforts on affordable childcare and workplace flexibility."
—Host (09:58)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We made a calendar to have her count down the days to what she was calling mommy all the time days." —Nicole Damstetter (03:23)
• "Taking the pay cut is the hardest part, both in terms of... my sense of self and what I'm contributing to our family unit." —Ivy Abed (07:04)
• “How are we making life better for women? How are we making life better for people of color?” —Rosie Nestingen (09:39)
• "Sorry, I can't say moms. I just cannot." —Waylon Wong (10:25)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:14 – Overview of latest jobs report and the labor market’s “holding pattern”
• 02:21 – Nicole Damstetter’s story: why she left her tech job to spend more time with her daughter
• 03:45 – Labor force participation statistics for mothers
• 03:58 – Introduction of economist Misty Hegenes and her research
• 05:38 – Ivy Abed’s story: balancing caregiving for both daughter and mother
• 07:34 – Economic data on Black moms and broader labor market trends
• 09:07 – Rosie Nestingen’s reflections on redefining career after job loss and motherhood
• 09:58 – Call for workplace and policy reforms to support mothers

---

Takeaways

• The drop in mothers’ workforce participation signals both persistent gaps in work-family support and shifting values among U.S. women.
• Stories shared reveal the interplay between systemic economic pressures and intensely personal decision-making.
• As post-pandemic work flexibility recedes, many mothers face difficult trade-offs between family care, income, and self-worth.
• Economists and advocates push for lasting solutions—namely affordable childcare and flexible work—which could help reverse troubling trends.

---

Transcript

[Darian Woods]

Npr.

[Waylon Wong]

This is the Indicator from Planet Money. I'm Darian Woods.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

I'm Waylon Wong. And it is jobs Friday, that day of the month when we get fresh data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics on how workers are doing. Today's numbers were a little lackluster. They show that the economy added 22,000 jobs in August, which is below expectation. The unemployment rate ticked up just a bit to 4.3%. It's the highest rate in four years.

[Waylon Wong]

The data suggests that the overall labour market is in this holding pattern. We're not seeing a lot of new jobs, but we're not seeing a big exodus of workers either. Beneath the surface though, there are groups of people who are leaving the workforce and one of those groups is mothers.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

Here in the indicator, we love hearing from listeners. So we reached out to working moms and we heard from a bunch of you. Today on the show. We hear some of those stories about why they've scaled back their work lives. And an economist explains what the state of working moms tells us about the health of the broader labor market.

[Capital One/Vanguard/Whole Foods Advertiser]

This message comes from Capital One. With the Capital One Saver card, earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment. Capital One. What's in your wallet? Terms apply [e-mail] this message comes from Vanguard. Capturing value in the bond market is not easy. That's why Vanguard offers a suite of over 80 institutional quality bond funds actively managed by a 200 person global team of sector specialists, analysts and traders. They're designed for financial advisors looking to give their clients consistent results year in and year out. See the [e-mail] audio that's vanguard.com audio all investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor this message comes.

[Whole Foods/BetterHelp Advertiser]

From Whole Foods Market. Fall sports are back. Feed your team. Made in house marinated chicken wings and Teton waters Ranch hot dogs and sausages. Or grab an oven ready 16 inch pizza. Host game day with help from Whole Foods Market.

[Waylon Wong]

Nicole Damstetter lives in Orlando, Florida with her husband, their four year old daughter, two dogs, a cat and five chickens.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

You've got your own eggs, right? So you're like making money in this economy. It's great.

[Nicole Damstetter]

It's great. I use them to barter with the neighbors.

[Waylon Wong]

Nicole has spent roughly the last decade in the tech sector helping nonprofit organizations use software. And she says she had always defined herself by her job. But that began to change when her daughter started part time preschool.

[Nicole Damstetter]

She was really coming alive and getting this personality being at preschool. And then I started to think ahead and realized I'VE only got a little time left before starts real, you know, big kids school as we call it kindergarten. And I don't want to miss this. And this is the time that I'm not going to get back. And I really reflected that I wanted to be home with my daughter.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

This is a story you hear a lot. So Nicole left her job. It was a change that her daughter was excited about too.

[Nicole Damstetter]

We made a calendar to have her count down the days to what she was calling mommy all the time days. And I have been really just jumping into deep play with my daughter instead of deep work. Love it. Some elaborate role playing games. She comes up with lots of interactions in the dollhouse and it's been wonderful.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

Nicole quit her job in April. And she wasn't the only mom who left their job this year. In the first half of 2025, the percentage of moms in the labor force fell from around 70% to 67%.

[Waylon Wong]

These numbers come from economist Misty Hegenes. She's a professor at the University of Kansas and the author of a forthcoming book called Swifty Nomics How Women Mastermind and Redefine Our Economy. And yes, that's Swifty, as in Taylor Swift.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

Where were you when the engagement news happened?

[Darian Woods]

I was in my car and just about to start my car and I got a text from one of my graduate students who said, Taylor and Travis are engaged. I'll probably never forget that moment.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

Me neither. Producer Corey Bridges was the one who told me I'm in a work zoo.

[Waylon Wong]

Always the best for breaking pop culture news.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

Oh, yes. Misty has been tracking what's been going on with working moms. And by the way, moms here means women ages 25 to 44 with children under 5.

[Waylon Wong]

Okay, so not all moms.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

And to zoom out a little, Misty says that during the pandemic, these moms are working more than ever and getting paid for it. Their labor force participation rate hit an all time high of 71% in 2023.

[Waylon Wong]

Misty attributes that growth to policies that let mothers with certain jobs work from home or have flexible schedules. Those gains have started reversing this year. That's where we see the drop in labour participation from 70% to 67%. It recovered slightly in July, but is still below its peak.

[Darian Woods]

What we're seeing now is, you know, a couple years out from the pandemic, some of the larger employers in the federal government have really pushed on this idea of return to office. And I think it's had an unintended consequence on caregivers ability to work. And we see that in the data.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

In other cases, even when employers are flexible, it still doesn't work out. That was what happened with Ivy Abed. Her background is in science education and she had been working full time at Chicago public schools, organizing career fairs and helping high school students get internships. Ivy is also a mom to a two year old daughter.

[Ivy Abed]

And she's wonderful in the light of my life.

[Waylon Wong]

Ivy's daughter has a condition that required a lot of hospital stays during the first year of her life. Things stabilized after a recent surgery, but Ivy's mother also started having memory problems. Ivy and her husband moved her mother from Alaska to Chicago.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

Ivy and her supervisors tried to work out a part time arrangement, but she needed even more flexibility than what her school could offer. So she traded her full time job for a part time teaching biology at a community college.

[Ivy Abed]

I think we would have been able to make it work if it had just been my daughter's condition. But because I had this added variable of my mother having her own separate trajectory, which was much less predictable, it just made sense that I would just need flexibility. And so I had to switch to something part time where that's a little more of an option.

[Waylon Wong]

Ivy says she's happy with her new work life balance. She's gotten to spend more time with her daughter and her mother. She's even found time for hobbies like bike riding. The downside is the hit to her income.

[Ivy Abed]

Taking the pay cut is the hardest part, both in terms of sort of like my sense of self and what I'm contributing to our family unit, and also a little bit of frustration about, like, how I feel like my time and my credentials are valued. I'm doing the same kind of work that would be earning $45 or $50 an hour if I were a full time employee. But as a part time employee, in order to get that fl, I have to take a, you know, get paid half as much.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

Other moms are leaving or getting pushed out of the workforce altogether. Economist Misty Haganess says two groups are important to watch. Moms of young children and black moms. They're among the most sensitive to changes in the broader economy.

[Waylon Wong]

Black women especially, tend to be overrepresented in jobs with lower pay and less security. And it takes them, on average, longer to find work after being unemployed. Their unemployment rate has been higher and increasing faster than the overall jobless rate. It was 6.7% in August compared to 4.3% overall.

[Darian Woods]

So these moms with kids under five is definitely like a canary in the coal mine sort of situation. They lead the trends in terms of how strong our labor market is, how weak it might be. You know, they're the ones that will be first to get pushed out. For example, looking at black moms is also a really good indicator of, you know, whether or not our economy and the job market is generally doing well and healthy or not.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

Misty also points out that behind these headline numbers on employment and labor force participation is a whole range of experiences. There are moms like Nicole, who left the workforce on her own terms, and moms like Ivy who have taken a pay cut in exchange for some needed flexibility.

[Waylon Wong]

A common thread in the stories we heard is that some mums are rethinking their relationship with work. That was the case with Rosie Nestingen. She lives with her husband and their two and a half year old daughter in Minneapolis.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

And Rosie has had a winding path in and out of the labor force. She used to have a high stress corporate job focused on equity in the workplace.

[Rosie Nestingen]

Forty days into my maternity leave, I got laid off.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

She took a year off to be with her daughter and then started a new job as a consultant. That got interrupted by some health issues. And after she recovered, she decided to go back to work on a limited schedule.

[Waylon Wong]

Rosie says her professional and personal experiences changed the way she thinks about her career. She's trying to model a different approach for her daughter when it comes to work.

[Rosie Nestingen]

The conversations are like, how are we making life better for women? How are we making life better for people of color? Like, I really try to situate myself in spaces where those things exist and are true and that I'm not. Honestly, I'm not the black person in the room that has to tell you why you should care about diversity. Like, I can't do that anymore.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

These conversations are what economist Misty Haganas said should be happening among employers and policymakers. She hopes those conversations will lead to efforts on affordable childcare and workplace flexibility. And that, she says, will help keep moms in the workforce. This episode was produced by Julia Ritchie with engineering by Robert Rodriguez. It was fact checked by Sarah Juarez. Kit Concannon is our editor and the indicator is a production of npr.

[Waylon Wong]

Sorry, I can't say moms. I just cannot.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

Oh, really? Okay, that's fine.

[Waylon Wong]

I just got. I can say mums.

[Host (possibly Julia Ritchie or another main host)]

I can say mums.

[Whole Foods/BetterHelp Advertiser]

This message comes from BetterHelp. It's only human to ask others for advice, like turning to your barista, hairdresser, or a taxi driver for life advice. But when you're looking for help about relationships, anxiety, depression or other clinical issues. They may not have all the right answers. Instead, get guidance from a licensed therapist online with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com npr for 10% off your first month.