← The Influence Factor by The Influencer Marketing Factory
The Influence Factor by The Influencer Marketing Factory
Revolutionizing Digital Comedy w/ Alessandra Catanese (Smosh's CEO)
00:28:03
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Transcript22 lines
- [00:00]
A
Art doesn't have to be painful. Work doesn't have to be painful. We can all come together and there can be community at places like these that help support each other and lift each other up.
- [00:14]
B
Hey, Alessandra. Welcome to the show. How are you?
- [00:16]
A
Hi. Good. Thank you for having me.
- [00:19]
B
Absolutely. Today it's a bit of a, you know, I'd say different episode. I'm very, very curious, right. To go into that, especially in with the 20th anniversary. As much like there is. There are a lot of things. What was it before? What was it during? What is the present and the future. Right. So I'm very excited about this episode. But before we get started, every, you know, for every guest to just to know a bit more about yourself. Right. And also for the audience listening, today we use this thing called the map. Basically, it's divided in three main sections. So M stands for mission. So what do you aim to achieve with your work achievements? Any notable milestones could be in your career, in your life, or both. And the last one is the purpose. So why do you do what you do?
- [00:56]
A
So our mission at Smosh is to make people laugh through comedy rooted in friendship. And my personal mission has always been to help artists be artists, you know, and just, I've always loved working with different types of talent. I love the way that they get creative. I love the differences in their creativity. And I always. I always had this knack for helping provide structure and in a structureless setting. So a lot of my career is working with talent who are like, I want to do this thing, but I don't know how to get there. But I have such a clear vision of, like, what it is. Right. And I'd be like, well, let me help you get there. Okay, so that's mission. What was your second one?
- [01:35]
B
The second one is the achievements. Anything that you're proud of?
- [01:38]
A
Like, achievement? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've done a lot of stuff. I've been on the board of VidCon. You know, smosh has received an incredible amount of awards this last year. We did a lot of Guinness Book of World Records. Oh, wow. And yeah, we. We broke, I think, maybe two new ones. And then we found out that we already had a few from our. Our 20 year history. Obviously, my personal achievements, you know, I've. I've worked with talent where I've helped them win awards like Streamys and Webbies. You know, Anthony and I won a couple together for our work at press alike. You know, I've. I've worked at. In the mcn World. I've worked in crowdfunding, I've worked in San Francisco, I've worked in consulting, I've worked all over the place. And I think like one of my starting like launch points in the career, in this career was working in a multi channel network like Maker Studios and being able to stay through the acquisition to Disney. So I was there all leading up to the charge. I was there for the transition over, you know, and then I stayed for about a year after we transitioned into the Walt Disney Company and from there, you know, I bounced around. I, like I said, I went into crowdfunding, I went to Patreon in San Francisco and then I started consulting and talent managing. Managing. And then when I was talent managing, we got acquired by Anonymous Content and we started their emerging platforms department. So I got to work with a lot of traditional celebrities and help them bridge the gap between what they thought digital was versus what opportunities really were for them in digital. Yeah, so I mean I, I've been around the block, I've done a lot. So that was.
- [03:08]
B
Yeah, so we went through the last one. Is the purpose. So why, why you do what you do?
- [03:14]
A
My purpose, I think like outside of Smosh's purpose, which like, again, I'll just restate. Our mission statement is to make people laugh through comedy rooted in friendship and connection. Right. So my personal purpose definitely helped drive that mission statement. You know, I love what people are able to do in the entertainment world. I love bringing stories to life. I love bringing entertainment to especially an audience that needs an escape. You know, I think right now life is heavy. You know, what we're dealing with in the world, what we're dealing with in the economy, you know, especially just in the United States, you know, people are paycheck to paycheck. And I think like the one thing that we all look to during good and bad times is art, right? And people's art is so vast and ever changing and different and beautiful. And I love to bring to light the art that I think might not get seen if people don't help. You know, it's, it's a community effort just like anything else. And so when I think about my purpose, I think about helping people's comedy, helping people's art, helping people's entertainment of all kinds be heard, whether that's platforming it or whether that's sharing it, you know, on social media in any way, or even just helping it make money so that people can make more art. Right. You know, if you can pay your bills, then you can make you can do more of what you're passionate about. And so, yeah, that's where my purpose and drive comes from, is wanting to create things with really talented people, help bring it to life, help make it sustainable. And I think like, part of that is also driving a way that things can be better, right? So consistent growth, consistent reflection, consistent accountability, things like that. So like, art doesn't have to be painful, work doesn't have to be painful. We can all come together and there can be community at places like these that help support each other and lift each other up. And that's not just in sharing things, that's also in like providing a living wage and providing work life balance and, you know, making sure that there are boundaries and breaks to avoid burnout. So things like that, right? So I think like, with that, I'm kind of always charging to make things better, however they can be.
- [05:31]
B
Yeah, absolutely. No, no, I mean, it makes sense, right? From the, what you say, like the importance of art and entertainment, the importance of being able to sustain yourself with that, to learn from that, to reinvest, grow and so on, right. It's a lot of different topics that we also shared in previous episodes, so we'd love to also hear more about that. But let's start with the, with the 20th anniversary, right? Just, I think last November, right, Celebrated that huge milestone. Especially what I say all the time is that I say this all the time. One week in the creator economy is like seven years in every other industry. So I can only imagine 20 years, right, how many things happen right out there. So, you know, again, giving these amazing milestones. Can you share how Smosh, right, has a revolution in the world of digital entertainment, right. And comedy, as you mentioned before. And also overall on the, on the creator economy, like, I'm very curious, what was 20 years ago and what now?
- [06:24]
A
So Smosh started as a website in kind of like a. A community forum. So it started as a place for Anthony and Ian to connect with their friends in high school and, you know, share messages. Probably a little bit of like high school gossip and drama and stuff, but quickly became the website where they decided, let's make some video content. Let's share it with our friends. They're here on our website, right? Let's give them something to talk about kind of thing. And you know, I think it's also two kids being funny and goofing off and having fun with each other, right? And making silly things that they thought would make others laugh. And so since then, you know, I think very shortly after, because in 2005 is when that started. And then 2006 or 7, I think is when the partner program came out somewhere around there with YouTube. And so I think the guys realized, oh, we could get paid to put this content up instead of paying hosting fees on a website. So, you know, they were some of the first creators ever in the partner program. And from there it really just became this, this hub of, you know, I think YouTube was this, this root of anybody can do it. Right. So back 15 years ago, it was something along the lines of, you, well, you can, you know, make go viral in your bedroom overnight. That's kind of the way that we looked at YouTube and it was cat videos and it was slowly becoming the search engine that we know for that we know of it today. But, you know, back then it was very much the creator economy. Wasn't. We didn't call it the creator economy. I think, you know, like, like, I'm sure you, you remember, most of the entertainment industry thought that it was a joke, thought that it washed in the pan. Yeah. With like that one guy from YouTube who cares. Right. And you know, still today we see in media some of those typecast things where it's like, you know, some procedural drama has like influencer episode where like, you know, the influencers do something that gets them in trouble and then the, you know, the main characters of the TV show have to go clean it up. Right, whatever. So we still see some of that stereotype, if you will, in today's media, but what it's become is a full fledged media industry. Right. So I don't really see a difference between traditional and digital anymore. I think we just called that because we have to like categorize these things as humans. And I think the industry as well, really, like, especially the traditional industry is like really up on their, you know, pedestal. And they really don't want to be compared to digital because they don't want to have to face the fact that what they create costs millions and millions of dollars and takes months and months and months. And what we create costs a fraction of the budget and takes weeks. You know, and, and I'm not saying that like, you know, what we make here is comparable with something like, you know, an Oscar winning or award winning, you know, TV show or film. But they're getting pretty close, you know, the two worlds. The industry is getting really close. And there's a lot of things, you know, on YouTube that are high quality and that do have the production value. And not just the production value, but the creative behind it like the writing and the plot line and the growth and maturity and the substance that we're looking for out of the content that it is that we choose to watch. And so more often we're seeing audiences say, especially younger audiences say, well, I don't want cable TV or I don't want to watch this, that or the other that's on the traditional side. I want to watch what's on YouTube. And we've seen this new thing that, you know, the economy really just can't because we're seeing how the user habits from digital have influenced traditional. Right? So you'll see today's news is about how Matt Damon and Ben Affleck went on to talk about how Netflix is changing the way that they make movies that you have to reiterate. Why? Because of the co viewing experience. Because while I'm watching a Netflix show, I'm also scrolling on my phone, right? And so when I think of the creator economy today, I think of the ways in which we can win. And not to say we're going to beat out traditional, but to say we're going to blend into one. And that's recognizing these co viewing experiences and not having to necessarily water down your content, but working with the co viewing experience. So for me, one of the things that Smosh is really leaning into is the living room experience is the 4K experience. We've invested heavily in 4K over this last year. And so the quality of our content, we are starting to encourage audience members to watch it on the tv. And the best part about that is while they're watching something in 4K on their TV, you know, that Smosh, they can also be commenting on their phone and liking and sharing and being a part of the conversation on their phone while they're watching. That's something that I think traditional can embrace, right? We can teach them something the same way that they can teach us something, you know. And so today's creator economy is starting to embrace the writers and directors and producers of the traditional world who don't have that much work because traditional is struggling and know different ways. So in all these ways, I see the creator economy becoming the entertainment industry, right? And it's, it's. There's too much gray area now. There's a real. It's really hard to delineate between the two, you know, and, and I think as much as some people may want to keep a gap, I just don't think that there's a choice anymore. I think that the future of the creator economy is Clear it is the entertainment industry and we are morphing into one.
- [12:06]
B
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- [13:35]
A
Yeah, so we do measure audience sentiment, right? We want to know how the audience feels about a piece of content or a series of content or you know, whatever a series of programming that we have created. And so for us it's, it's a balance I'd say with, for anybody it's going to be a balance. You don't want to over listen and you know, dedicate yourself to the consideration from the audience but you also don't want to not hear them and you know, and ignore them. Right. Like to us I think we care about the overall sentiment and reaction. So a good example for us is this last Friday we just had a live show, we just did Smosh Hospital and there's audience reactions and people in the chat. It's a ticketed live event. So so you watch the stream by paying for a ticket and then you host it on your computer, right. And you know People can leave comments there, but I don't just look there to see, you know, because if somebody bought a ticket, they're much more likely to say, this is great because they spent money on it. Then, you know, I want to know both sides. And so we check everything from, like, Twitter and Reddit to a certain degree, not often and not daily, but we check them maybe like weekly, monthly to see, like, what's the conversation generally around something. And so we'll check on, like, smosh hospital ticket sales, right? People will comment on price points, and then we will see what the reaction is, you know, on the actual content. And did they like the cast members and did they like the characters? How about the stunts or the bits that we did? Right. Like, we also find ways to get them involved. So, like, we have them vote on different choices and we also have them submit, like, Mad Lib stuff sometimes ahead of time so that we can throw gags at the actors, at our comedians while they're. They're live. And we're able to see. The show is very well received. The show is widely well received. We had, you know, one of our highest viewerships on a ticketed live event in a very long time, and the sentiment was extremely positive. That's important to us. We want to know that what it is that we're delivering is received well. And we want to know that we are investing in the right properties. We want to know that we're investing in the right talent. Right. So sometimes the audience will highlight a particular comedian's work and it wouldn't have stood out to us before, right? Maybe we're like, oh, this is a great episode. And, you know, the talent works, firing on all cylinders. And then we see the audience reaction. It's like, oh, my gosh, you know, so and so had such a funny moment, blah, blah, blah. And that helps inform, you know, what highlight clips will distribute on social or, you know, how we pitch the show to advertisers and things like that. So, like, it's very symbiotic relationship, but like I said, it's all with a grain of salt and balance because, you know, the audience doesn't know everything happening behind the scenes. They don't know some of the business decisions that we have to make or, like, the availability or the production lifts or things like that. So sometimes they don't know what they're asking for and. Or they don't understand the implications of something that they might say. So they might say, like, you know, we love Smosh Hospital so much. We wish you guys would do this all the time? Well, it's a very expensive show to put on, so I wish I could do it all the time, too, but I. But I don't have the budgets to put it on, you know, every month. And there are other audience members that would say, I can't afford to buy a ticket every single time. So we want to make sure that our ticket prices are affordable and approachable and accessible. Right. We want to make sure that the programming we're delivering is strong and going to resonate well with our audience. We want to make sure that we're investing in lifting up cast members that are doing a great job and making sure that they're also taking their platform seriously and, you know, not taking for granted the excitement generated by that audience, but also are able to launch their own independent projects and careers from it. Right. So everything's a bit of a balance, but it all feeds into each other. And I think when you find your own balance, it can be a very beneficial relationship. As long as you understand that there's something you. You can't make everybody happy all the time. Right? My goal is not to make everybody happy all the time. My goal is to provide more opportunity for our artists, for our employees, for our business. Right. And therefore, that indirectly, but also directly creates more entertainment for our audience.
- [18:01]
B
And that's, I think, what the Internet told us. Right. And taught us that the fact that no one will always be happy if you go in the comment section is always going to be, I don't want to say 50 50, but even if you think that is the best program ever, you're gonna have haters and people complaining and this and that. So I. I totally understand what you mean exactly. Like, understand, like, looking around and not be that company that doesn't really listen. Really. Maybe some people don't see the big picture and didn't understand budgeting and timeline and, you know, IP and media rights and all. All the complication.
- [18:31]
A
Right, right. And there's so much in the entertainment industry, you know, maturing smosh as a business also means that, like, we can't do things that we could get away with before. Like, exactly. You know, we have. We have a clearance attorney now. Right. And. And there's a lot of things that we have to consider because, you know, people will say, well, oh, well, I can use this thing or this music or this thing because it's fair use. And I'm like, okay, maybe you have the argument for fair use, but just because you might have what you think is considered a good point or good argument as to why this is considered fair use doesn't mean that the company that owns the IP that we're using isn't going to sue us. Right? Like, and that's the thing is when you're a small fish in a small pond, you're not really a big target. But even if we think that we're utilizing fair use to its fullest extent, like, properly, that doesn't mean that the success we're amassing isn't going to make us a target to a bigger company. Right? So at the end of the day, even here, internally, I have to educate people of like, yes, we could use this picture. And if we comment on this picture extensively, then we are essentially falling into fair use. Do we want to risk that the company who owns the IP that we are commenting on will then come after us? Right, because it's not about, it's not a black and white business when it comes to fair use. You have to have the willingness and the capacity to go to court for it, right? Like, you have to like, understand that the risk that you're taking is you could end up trying to argue something, you know, in a legal battle. And like, sometimes things just aren't worth that risk. Sometimes they are. Sometimes it's, it's easy and it's fun and it's let's do it and let's have that social commentary. But sometimes you have to really reconsider what it is that the risk that you're willing to take when it comes to your business. And this is a business that's very precious to me. So I like to make sure that we're not, you know, it's comedy. We're always going to be taking risks. But like, at the same time, sometimes my job is to play it safe, you know, and that's the balance.
- [20:33]
B
And let's continue on your job, right? Because what you said, you know, earlier about 20 years ago, YouTube, what was this? Very experimental new things. I know what was taken seriously. Then after a few years, people were like, yeah, I'm like, I do videos on YouTube. But they didn't want to share too much because it was this weird thing. And then it became like popular. And now YouTubers, right, Don, are not like this solo, right? I'd say players in the market, they do have a team video editor people, you know, helping with brand deals and scripts. You are the CEO, right? What is your week, you know, like, or a day like is like, I'm very curious, right? Because again, usually people are used to maybe the CEO of a company that is, I don't want to say more traditional, right. Than something like Smosh, right. But how do you approach, right, your work with the team? What does entail, like, you know, your typical day working there?
- [21:27]
A
It's different every week. But I think like, generally as the CEO, my job is to always be furthering our business. So I like to tell the team here, like, I carry the weight of making sure we can pay the paychecks, right? And so that will, that kind of like, fuels me. So every week I'm looking at what is our 1 year, 3 year and 10 year plans and how are we putting into action over the next 90 days, right. The small steps that accumulate to those bigger steps, right. So this week I'm looking at like, you know, what are the conversations I can be having with studios or networks or platforms like Netflix and whatnot to consider what their appetite is so that Smosh can go sell shows, right? Like, what does that look like? How are we furthering our business there? I'm looking at what are the events that we're going to attend this year so that we can sponsor some so that we can have live appearances and others so that we can meet audiences in different places that they are. I look at our distribution, right? I'm looking at some of our deals with distributing partners. We have one major deal with Samsung TV plus where all of our content gets licensed exclusively. And then we have the platforms that we work with to repurpose our YouTube content onto social platforms like Facebook and Snap so that they can be monetized. So some of that we have a team internally, but there's another half of that, that's a big portion that, that we work with an external team with, right. And then we just did payroll last week, right. So I'm making sure, you know, do I know what our payroll amount is? Do I know? I mean, granted we're, we're able to meet it, which is nice, but like, if we're not able to meet it, right, Like, I need to know two, three months ago, right? Like, I, so I'm looking at things that affect us, you know, three to six months in advance. But I'm also starting projects that affect us three to six months in advance. So, you know, sometimes even a year in advance. If we sell a TV show this month, you're not going to see that TV show for six months, maybe even a year, right? Like, so, like, the things I'm working on today won't come to fruition until A while out. But somebody has to start them and then get them to a place where they're real enough to pass on to the team. So a good example would be Smosh Hospital, right? So over six months ago, I went to our streaming partner, Kiswee, and then I went to some of our talent, specifically Shane Topp, and I said, hey, we know that around this time we're going to want to do another show, another live show. So we have to plan for a date for that. So I get Kiss me and our production comp. Or our production team together start planning for dates. And I then I went to Shane and I said, they're really not going to be able to get much done until we have, you know, a script for something like this. This is your original idea and I know you had a theme for it. Let's set you up with a writer. So we do the deal to set them up with a writer. And George Primavera, who works with us often on a lot of our dread formats, came on board to start writing the show. You know, I have to do that deal and then I get them to a certain point where the programming team then has a script and that script can then be reviewed and given notes and gotten feedback and blah, blah. And then they kind of like run with it from there. Because now the production team is able to set an actual production date for us to bring this live and work backwards with what does the art team need to do? What does the post team need to do? What is. What assets are we building for this live show, both physically and digitally? Right? And then how, then the social team steps in. How are we marketing the show? All that kind of stuff gets set up. That's when I. That's when I get to let go and say, okay, everybody's got their marching orders, everybody's got their jobs. You guys, to go do this, I need to go work on the next one, right? So before it even airs, I'm already thinking about what's our next project? What's the spend going to be on that project. We need to review the budget from this last project to see what did we think was absolutely necessary, what did we think was not necessary? Where is. Where can we be better with our spending? Whereas where do we get the most bang for our buck? Things like that. And so in the coming weeks, I will both be working on the next project and setting it up to handoff and be reconciling this last project and going through, you know, how much money did we make? What did we make after expenses, what is the. Our actual profit margin? Is it enough? Right. Does it justify what it is that we've done? And then are we able to take that money that we profited and reinvest it in the next project so that we can make the next project even better? Is there a portion of that profit that I want to take to help make us a movie to help hire on a new, you know, studio hand that helps support what it is that we do? Things like that. Right. So again, it's. It's this cycle of setting up, handing off and then starting the next only to have to review the last one.
- [26:06]
B
You know, no, thank you for sharing that. You know, it's fascinating because as we said earlier, right. Many people don't realize the work that is behind. Right. A product like that, you know, you, you see a video could be a 30 seconds up to a 20 minutes long form and people just think that something happened. Right. That the video comes to light. Right. You don't write all that and then goes back to the. Listening to the feedback with a grain of salt because yeah, we would love to do that, but there is a, you know, maybe the budget is limited for that or maybe it doesn't work because of, you know, that type of monetization or because this and that. Right. So it's. I was very curious about that. So thank you for sharing. Right. Some of the behind the scene because many people don't even know, right. What you're like yours does for Smosh.
- [26:46]
A
Yeah, yeah. And it's different every day, you know. So the calls I get this week about business are going to be really different than the calls I get next week or next month or next year about the business that we can do, you know, And I think like, people don't realize, like, you really gotta push to get Smosh's brand continually out there. It's. It's out there and it's well known. But the struggle then becomes how do we keep it relevant in people's minds? So like a lot of my work ends up just being matters. What if the what is the press opportunity or what's the next announcement we can get? What deal do I need to sign to get the industry reignited and excited about what it is that we're doing so that we can create more opportunity for our people, for our talent, et cetera.
- [27:26]
B
Amazing. Alessandra, thank you so much for telling us about again all these 20 years and all your work. And as you said from traditional celebrities and then YouTubers, I can see that you saw a lot of these different point of view. Very important in my opinion to understanding how they are decent but very similar these days at the same time. And best of luck with all the future.
- [27:51]
A
Thank you.
- [27:52]
B
Thank you so much, you know, for sharing all your knowledge with us today. This was the influence factor by the Influencer Marketing Factory. And I'll see you next week.