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The Interview
2025 on The Interview
00:23:00
A special episode of The Interview featuring three compelling conversations from 2025
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- [00:00]
BBC Narrator
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.
- [00:06]
Safeway/Albertsons Advertiser
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- [00:37]
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- [01:08]
BBC Presenter/Producer
Hello, I'm Farhana Haider, producer on the interview from the BBC World Service. The best conversations coming out of the BBC people shaping our world from all over the world.
- [01:21]
Malala Yousafzai
Today we are spending trillions on war and peanuts on peace.
- [01:24]
Donald Trump
Wind power in the United States has.
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Safeway/Albertsons Advertiser
Been subsidized for for 33 years.
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BBC Interviewer with Malala
Isn't that enough?
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Safeway/Albertsons Advertiser
Solar for 25 years.
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BBC Interviewer with Malala
That's enough. I don't have army, I don't have missile rockets. I have my body, I have my voice.
- [01:37]
Donald Trump
I love singing and so my goal was always to do better and better at it.
- [01:42]
Malala Yousafzai
I was still in an induced coma in hospital when the world was defining me.
- [01:48]
BBC Presenter/Producer
Since the interview launched in March 2025, we've heard from world leaders to cultural icons, grassroots campaigners to business titans and sporting legend. As we approach the end of the year, we're bringing you a selection of the most compelling conversations we featured over the last nine months. For this episode, we hear from President Trump of America, British Royal Prince Harry and Malala Yousafzai, the education and human rights campaigner. In July, the BBC's North America correspondent, Gary O' Donoghue said spoke to the US President in a wide ranging telephone conversation from the Oval Office. That very nearly didn't happen. It eventually took place hours after he announced plans to send weapons to Ukraine and warned of severe tariffs on Russia if no ceasefire could be reached. It also marked a year on from the assassination attempt on the President's life, as witnessed by Gary o'. Donoghue.
- [02:49]
BBC Narrator
Being able to have such a broad conversation, let alone one so Frank with an incumbent world leader in is quite rare. Going about getting it, though, was much like any other interview. As a journalist, you do your best to work your sources, explore the best arguments to make your case, and most of all, be persistent. Having been at that infamous rally in Pennsylvania last year at which Donald Trump nearly lost his life to an assassin's bullet, I wanted to speak to him a year on about how it had changed him, because it had certainly changed me. For a number of days, I was hopeful that a telephone interview would take place. At one point, I was told he would call me shortly from Air Force One. But that call didn't come through. Something else had come up, as it tends to do if you're the President of the United States. To be honest, come Monday evening, I thought it wasn't going to happen. At home, having a nap. I was woken by a call and scrambled. When I was told the President was on the line ready to speak to me, I accidentally hung up in my hurry, but fortunately the White House was good enough to ring me back. And so it happened.
- [04:01]
Donald Trump
It was like dead silence and everything. We had 55,000 people and it was dead silence. And so, you know, I assumed that they expected the worst, and so I had to let them know I was okay, which is what I did. That's why I tried to get up as quick as possible. And I didn't want to be taken out by a stretcher. They had a stretcher ready to go. I said, no, thank you. I actually had a big argument with them, right? They wanted me on a stretcher and I said, nope, I'm not doing that. So we had to let them know we were okay, you know, for the country. It's my obligation, Right.
- [04:37]
BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
Did it change you? What happened?
- [04:39]
Donald Trump
Well, I like to think about it as little as possible, to be honest. I don't like to think about did it change me, you know, because could have changed a lot of people and I just don't. Do you understand what I'm saying? I don't want to think about it. It's like, I get it, the power of positive thinking or the power of positive non thinking. I don't like dwelling on it because if I did, it would, you know, might be life changing. I don't want it to have to be that. It was a crazy moment and it was something that has happened and ended and, you know, I went on to win the presidency. I don't know if that had anything to do with it, to be honest, but I went on to win the presidency. We're having a great presidency.
- [05:28]
BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
You've had an extraordinary year, and you've been on a roll very much recently. One thing I was keen to ask you is these world leaders, they do treat you differently to the way they treated you first time around?
- [05:44]
BBC Presenter/Producer
Yeah.
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BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
Why do you think that is?
- [05:47]
Donald Trump
Well, I think they think it's maybe not all luck. You know, it's like they think there's a lot of talent involved. When you do it twice, it's a big difference. I also think that, you know, over the years, they've gotten to know me. This is not an easy crowd to break into, you understand. These are smart people heading up very, very successful, generally countries, you know, they're all Germany and France, Spain and, you know, big countries. And, you know, I've gotten to know them over printing, and I think they've come to respect me and my decision making.
- [06:22]
BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
How do you feel, though, when they're kind of. Obviously, sometimes they're very obvious in their flattery, sometimes over obvious in their flattery.
- [06:30]
Donald Trump
Yeah. Well, I think they're just trying to be nice.
- [06:33]
BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
You mentioned that Russia was one of the things that was still problematic. You've said you were four times close to a deal with Putin.
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Donald Trump
Yeah, I thought I had a deal four times.
- [06:45]
BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
Are you done with him? I mean, I know that sounds a.
- [06:48]
Donald Trump
Simplistic thing, but I'm disappointed in him. But I'm not done with him, but I'm disappointed in him.
- [06:53]
BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
How do you get him to, we.
- [06:55]
Donald Trump
Had a deal done four times, and then you go home and you see he just attacked a nursing home or something in Kiev. I said, what the hell was that all about?
- [07:04]
BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
How do you get him to stop the bloodshed? Because I know you've said repeatedly, the.
- [07:07]
Donald Trump
Bloodshed is the thing we're working at, Gary. So far, I'm very disappointed. We'll have a great conversation. I'll say that's good. I think we're close to getting it done. And then he'll knock down a building in Kiev.
- [07:23]
BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
Do you trust him?
- [07:24]
Donald Trump
I trust almost nobody, to be honest with you.
- [07:29]
BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
So how do you deal with someone you can't trust?
- [07:32]
Donald Trump
Well, it's not a question of that. It's like, I'm disappointed that this hasn't been done. I'm protecting Russian and Ukrainian soldiers and a lot of people from Ukraine. Bill, we made last week is amazing. The, you know, the 5%. Nobody thought that was possible. And it amounts to over a trillion dollars a year. So they'll be able to buy all the equipment they want.
- [07:55]
BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
Can I ask you a little bit about your domestic agenda. You were very clear about your priorities during the campaign. I followed you around and there's no one who could argue you didn't tell people what you wanted to do. Are you feeling any frustration about being able to achieve your goals in terms of immigration? Clearly, there are not people coming across the border. But in terms of deportations, the speed, the mechanisms, perhaps sweeping people up who you wouldn't want to see deported, is the mechanism working for you?
- [08:28]
Donald Trump
No, I think we've done a great job. I mean, number one is the people pouring in. And as you know, last month it was zero, which is pretty amazing. But, no, I. I think that I've much more than fulfilled the promises that I've made. I think I fulfilled more promises than I've made, actually.
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BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
How many deportations in, in this second term of yours would mark success for you?
- [08:51]
Donald Trump
Well, we have a lot of them. We have all of the countries that I stopped from going to war. Maybe first and foremost, we have the big beautiful build, which is the largest bill of its kind ever approved. We have the largest tax cuts in history, the largest regulation cuts in history. I rebuilt the military. Now we've done a lot more than I said I was going to be doing.
- [09:16]
BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
But in terms of deportations, deporting people who are in the country illegally, what would be a success number for you? Would it have to be in the millions to be a success?
- [09:27]
Donald Trump
Well, I want to get the criminals out immediately when that's what we're doing, and we're winning a lot of court cases which allow us to do that.
- [09:33]
BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
In terms of the numbers, you know, over the four years, would it have to be.
- [09:37]
Donald Trump
I don't put a number on, but I want to get the criminals out quickly, and we're doing that. As you know, we're bringing them to El Salvador, lots of other places.
- [09:47]
BBC Interviewer with Donald Trump
So may I ask you, looking back, what would be the key for your legacy? For you, what is. What do you think would define your legacy from your.
- [09:56]
Donald Trump
I think America is now a great country, and it was a dead country one year ago.
- [10:04]
BBC Presenter/Producer
US President Donald Trump, born into one of the world's most famous families, British royal and son of the king, Prince Harry spent his adolescence in the limelight. The world watched as he grieved the death of his mother, Princess Diana. In May of this year, he lost a court battle to reverse the downgrading of security protection for him and his family after they moved to America and he had stepped down from royal duties. He had claimed the Threats he faced were not properly considered, but judges rejected this. Shortly after the ruling, he spoke to BBC correspondent Neda Tofik from his adopted home in California.
- [10:42]
BBC Interviewer with Prince Harry
I'm speaking to Prince Harry after he loses a Court of Appeal challenge over his security arrangements in the uk. This has been a complex case. Another piece in the royal drama of a divided family. Mary Buckingham palace said, all issues have been examined repeatedly and meticulously by the courts, with the same conclusion reached on each occasion. I found Prince Harry warm and easy to chat with. The strain of these last few years clearly made worse by this legal defeat, was evident on his facial expressions. Speaking from a beautiful location near his California home, he was eager to share his perspective despite the inevitable scrutiny that follows him.
- [11:23]
Prince Harry
I can't see a world in which I would be bringing my wife and children back to the UK at this point. The things that they're going to miss is, well, everything. You know, I love my country. I always have done, despite what some people in that country have done. So, you know, I miss the uk. Of course I do. And I think that it's really quite sad that I won't be able to show my children my homeland.
- [11:48]
BBC Interviewer with Prince Harry
Do you think your relationship has changed with the uk? Do you feel let down by your country?
- [11:55]
Prince Harry
That's a big question at this point. I'm feeling very let down. It's the minority of people, especially those that read the tabloids and the press themselves. The press themselves have incited so much hatred towards myself, my wife and even our children. That's hard to forgive. You know, there are decisions that have been made. There are things that have happened since 2016, especially throughout my whole life. But let's just stick. Since 2016, there are things that have happened that I can now forgive. I have moved past that. I can forgive my family's involvement, my father, my brother and my stepmother. I can forgive the press to a large extent as well, for so many things that have happened. What I'm struggling to forgive and what I will probably always struggle to forgive is that a decision that was made in 2020, that affects my every single day, and that is knowingly putting me and my family in harm's way. Everybody knew that they were putting us at risk in 2020, and they hoped that me knowing that risk would force us to come back. But then when you realize that that didn't work, do you not want to just keep us safe? Whether you're the government, whether you're the Royal household, whether you're my dad, my family, despite all of our Differences. Do you not want to just ensure our safety?
- [13:24]
BBC Interviewer with Prince Harry
How are you feeling about this decision? Because clearly you have two children, Archie Lilibet. They're not able to see their grandfather, their uncle, their cousins in a way that you feel is safe for them. So what's your feelings kind of moving forward? Is there any way that this could be resolved?
- [13:49]
Prince Harry
Firstly, I'm devastated. Not so much as devastated as with the loss that I am about the people behind the decision feeling as though this is okay. Is it a win for them? Is it a win that I don't get the protection that the threats and risks and impact say that I should? I would hope they wouldn't consider it a win. I'm sure there's some people out there, probably the most likely, the people that wish me harm consider this a huge win. But, you know, I've. This is. There are. There have been so many disagreements, differences between me and some of my family. This current situation that has been on now, ongoing for five years with regard to human life and safety is the sticking point. It is the only thing that's left. Of course, some members of my family will never forgive me for writing a book. Of course, they will never forgive me for lots of things, but, you know, there is. I would love reconciliation with my family. I've always, you know, there's no point in continuing to fight anymore. And I said, life is precious. I don't know how much longer my father has, you know, he, he, he won't speak to me because of this security stuff. But it would be nice to. It would be nice to reconcile that reconciliation can't come without truth. Well, I've now found out the truth. A lot of it exists out there. So it would be nice to have that reconciliation part now, if they don't want that, that's entirely up to them.
- [15:48]
BBC Interviewer with Prince Harry
And now that this court battle is over, do you feel you will be able to approach your father and speak about some of those issues?
- [15:58]
Prince Harry
I mean, if, if, if. No, I think, I don't think you would ever want to talk about it. I think you would just push it aside and, and the, you know, the argument will continue to be, this is a government decision. It may well be a government decision. But how did they reach that decision? You know, I have never, ever been allowed to make my own representations. Not in 2020 and not for the last five years. For me and only me, there has to be a royal obligation in order to receive protection on UK soil.
- [16:31]
BBC Presenter/Producer
Prince Harry.
- [16:36]
Safeway/Albertsons Advertiser
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- [17:06]
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- [17:38]
BBC Presenter/Producer
In October, the global education activist Malala Yousafzai spoke to BBC presenter Medina Mashanu about the public life that has defined her and her search for her own identity. In a deeply personal interview, Malala Yousafzai revealed the legacy of her teenage years as a spirited girl who took on the Taliban and nearly lost her life. Then the Nobel Prize winning advocate for girls everywhere to go to school. People think they know you, she says, but I did not know who I was. Here's BBC presenter Madina Meshanu.
- [18:12]
BBC Interviewer with Malala
I'm speaking to global education activist Malala Yousufzai. She was in Nigeria with Malala Fund, her organization working to ensure an education for girls. Nigeria has the highest number of out of school children in the world. When Malala arrived at our Abuja bureau, she was immediately warm and accommodating, far more approachable than the serious image many see on tv. She lit up when we talked about her as a person sharing glimpses of her life that rarely make it into the public eye. When I asked her about how fun she seems on Instagram, she laughed and said, she's even more fun in real life. It was a reminder that behind the global figure is someone genuinely human and deeply relatable.
- [18:57]
Malala Yousafzai
I was still in an induced coma in hospital when the world was defining me as this brave, courageous young activist. But I was still 15 years old and I did not know who I was. So you know, my exposure to media, to public life has really sort of limited the way I could express myself. Activism is my lifelong mission and that will continue to be a part of my life. But there's always more to a person than just that. And, yeah, you know, it's like you, in the end, are a human, just like anybody else. You want to make friends, you want to feel loved. You want, you know, you want to have that support around you.
- [19:39]
BBC Interviewer with Malala
So your story is one that is very touching, one that almost everyone in the world knows. When you were shot at 15 by the Taliban, and that must have impacted your childhood. Would you say that subsequently fame also impacted your childhood?
- [19:56]
Malala Yousafzai
I think it was a bit of everything at 15, when I was recovered from the attack, I started school in the uk, in a completely new country. I actually really struggled to make friends. By the end of my school time, I just had made one friend. So when I was about to join university, I had one mission and that was to make as many friends as I could, because friends also help you grow as a person. So I'm so lucky to say right now that I have made a lot of friends and they have helped me in difficult moments, from handling essay crisis to just have moments of laughter, to also being there with each other when we have gone through tough Mom.
- [20:43]
BBC Interviewer with Malala
But why did you struggle to make friends? Was it the fame?
- [20:47]
Malala Yousafzai
I think it's because people think that they know you. They have heard about you on tv, so they have this fixed image of you. And that image of mine is that of like, this brave Malala who survived the Taliban's attack at age 15 in Pakistan. Of course, I was, you know, a normal girl. I was mischievous sometimes. I had a lot of friends. I loved to talk about anything. And what I wanted was that you can be an activist, but you could also be yourself. And this is something that I missed on when I was in the school days. But I had to, like, relearn and reconnect with all of that later on in my college time.
- [21:31]
BBC Interviewer with Malala
You've recently written a new book which is yet to be released. It's called Finding My Way. And that title just seems very personal. What does it mean to you?
- [21:41]
Malala Yousafzai
Yes, this is the most personal reflections I have ever shared before. I talk about my school years, which were lonely. I talk about my college life where I decided to become more of a reckless student. I have become more of a sports person. Right now I'm doing quite good at golf. I talk about friendships and love life and at the same time, mental health, because that is something that affected me many, many years later after the attack. This is, in a way, me reintroducing myself.
- [22:09]
BBC Interviewer with Malala
You also mentioned many times that you go to therapy. How has therapy helped you?
- [22:15]
Malala Yousafzai
Actually, I started Therapy seven, eight years later after the attack. Because when I survived the physical injuries, I thought, this is it. This is what recovery means. And, you know, if you heal from one bullet, like, you don't need a conversation about therapy and how do you feel. But many years later, I realized how the trauma, the flashbacks, everything just got triggered and they all came back. And it broke me down. Because if you don't address it on time, it can completely, like, break you down when it comes to you all at once. So my perspective on mental health has completely changed now because in the beginning, I thought nobody could understand me. My situation is just so different. But I had a few sessions with the therapist and I realized, okay, like, this, this is something I should have been having much, much earlier. And I thought the therapist could, like, maybe fix it in one session. I thought she would write some medication. But no, I think it's about conversation. It's about processing what you're going through and learning that, you know, this, this is now a part of you, but the effect of it on you gets smaller and smaller when you face it, when you talk about it. So, yes, like, therapy is now part of, like, my.
- [23:35]
BBC Interviewer with Malala
Everything you've been through when you were shot and the Malala of today. Do you think it's all worth it?
- [23:42]
Malala Yousafzai
This is a tough question to address because I usually would say that I wish I was in the old life. I wish I could have continued my life in Pakistan. But when I think about how things took a turn and now that I'm able to lead a movement for girls education and we are able to work together with incredible partners like here in Nigeria. When I look at these incredible organizations, like a dozen of them, who are leading change for girls, then I'm like, whatever the circumstances, this pathway is rewarding. And I do not want to look back, I do not want to change it for a second because of the change that today we can make for girls.
- [24:32]
BBC Presenter/Producer
Malala, you see. Thank you for listening to this special edition of the interview from the BBC World Service, featuring conversations with US President Donald Trump, Prince Harry of Britain, and Pakistani education activist Malala Yousafzai. People shaping our world from all over the world. You'll find more in depth conversations on the interview wherever you get your BBC podcasts, including episodes with Daniel Nabok Boa, President of Ecuador, cycling champion Sir Bradley Wiggins, and Russian punk activist Maria Alyokina. Until the next time. Bye. For now.
- [25:15]
BBC Narrator
At the BBC, we go further so you see clearer. Through Frontline reporting, global stories and local insights, we bring you closer to the world's news as it happens. And it starts with a subscription to BBC.com, giving you unlimited articles and videos ad free podcasts, the BBC News channel streaming live 24. 7 plus hundreds of acclaimed documentaries. Subscribe to trusted independent journalism and storytelling from the BBC. Find out more@BBC.com join did you know.
- [25:46]
BBC Interviewer with Malala
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