Amy Wallace, writer: We all need to speak up

Summary

The Interview: Amy Wallace, Writer – We All Need to Speak Up

BBC World Service | Host: Naga Munchetti | Date: July 21, 2026
Guest: Amy Wallace, co-author of Virginia Giuffre’s memoir "Nobody’s Girl"

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Overview

In this emotionally powerful episode, host Naga Munchetti interviews journalist and writer Amy Wallace about her experience co-authoring the memoir of Virginia Giuffre—a woman who accused Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein of sexual abuse and who, before the memoir’s publication, took her own life. Wallace discusses her unexpected role from ghostwriter to outspoken advocate, the process of telling an exceptionally traumatic story, and the urgent need for collective responsibility in speaking up about sexual abuse. The discussion provides insight into the writing process, the challenges faced by survivors, and the broader implications for justice and societal change.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Memoir's Impact After Virginia Giuffre’s Death

• [02:05] Amy Wallace reflects on stepping forward to speak for Virginia after initially expecting to remain anonymous.
  • Quote: “As I've reflected over these incredible nine months where I'm unusually stepping forward to speak up for her when I was gonna be completely in the shadows… That's one of the takeaways I hope people glean out of this book, is that we all need to be speaking up about it, not just the survivors.” —Amy Wallace [02:05]
• [02:37] The publication of the memoir triggered significant real-world consequences, including King Charles stripping Andrew Mountbatten Windsor of his titles.
  • Quote: “It comes out and nine days later, King Charles strips Prince Andrew… of his titles. And that kind of kicked off a million different ripple effects of the book… These things that Virginia talks about… not just about Epstein and Maxwell, but about the impacts of sexual abuse… really have resonated.” —Amy Wallace [02:37]

Publishing After Tragedy: Fulfilling Virginia’s Wishes

• [03:32] Virginia’s express wish was for the memoir to be published even if she died. Wallace had already finalized the manuscript with her.
  • Quote: “She sent an email to me and to her publicist… saying… I want this book published… Not only did we have a finished book, but we also had express desires from Virginia that it be published.” —Amy Wallace [03:32]

The Threats and Trauma Survivors Face

• [04:57] Virginia lived in constant fear for her and her family’s safety, having received credible death threats and other forms of intimidation since coming forward publicly in 2011.
  • Quote: “Ever since she came forward publicly in 2011… she received credible death threats. She had her house broken into. So yes, it was a constant… she knew she was going to open herself up again to these same kinds of attacks.” —Amy Wallace [04:57]

Writing the Memoir: Honesty, Collaboration, and Boundaries

• [06:52] Wallace describes the delicate process of collaborating with Virginia on such a traumatic story, emphasizing Virginia’s agency and insistence on including deeply personal details.
  • Quote: “She was the one that really drove the bus on, I want this in. I want to include what had happened at the hands of her father… Because she was very clear about the shame that sexual abuse survivors feel. And she never wanted her own story… to make other survivors feel shameful that they couldn't just get over it.” —Amy Wallace [06:52–08:27]

Breaking the Silence: Refusing Shame

• [08:34] Virginia’s insistence on talking openly about her experiences aimed to remove the shame placed on survivors.
  • Quote: “She said, ‘No, I will talk about this. I will not hide in the shadows about this, because it's not my shame.’” —Naga Munchetti [08:34]

Challenges for Survivors: The Burdens of Speaking Out

• [09:37] The conversation highlights the immense pressure on survivors to continuously recount their trauma and the toll this takes. Wallace describes working to protect Virginia during the process.
  • Quote: “In some ways, these survivors, that's the only thing they can think of to do to keep the pressure on, is to keep basically opening up their worst experiences and repeat them. But that takes a toll every time they do it.” —Amy Wallace [10:10]

The Complexity of Family Dynamics

• [12:29] Discussion of the complex emotions survivors feel toward abusive family members, including the ongoing urge to “fix” those relationships.
  • Quote: “There's so much pressure put on that child to keep the secret… That's yet another burden that is placed on the young person who's been hurt.” —Amy Wallace [13:25]

Class, Power, and Abuse

• [16:27] The episode delves into the systemic nature of abuse among elites like Epstein and Maxwell, and how class and entitlement allow perpetrators to act with impunity.
  • Quote: “You look at the person you're abusing as less than you… they are there to meet your needs… at certain echelons of society… you are entitled to do anything you wish and not face the consequences that you or I would face.” —Amy Wallace [17:09, 18:12]

Legal Tactics and the Limits of Justice

• [19:32] Wallace describes the inventive legal approaches that gave Virginia some redress, such as suing for defamation when prosecution was impossible due to statutes of limitation, but highlights the profound failures of the justice system in holding perpetrators accountable.
  • Quote: “Let's remember, in the United States, not a single man that Virginia or any of the other survivor sisters were trafficked to has been prosecuted, let alone, we think, investigated… So these women have come forward and named the names… and those men have not been interviewed… That is a crime to have sex with somebody who's being trafficked…” —Amy Wallace [19:32]

Hope, Individual Outrage, and Call to Action

• [22:24] Despite the bleakness, Wallace finds hope in Giuffre's example and urges listeners to recognize their own power to demand change.
  • Quote: “I hope people understand that they should never underestimate the power of their own individual outrage. Do you want to live in a society that allows wealthy men… to rape underage children? If you don't, you can speak up… Virginia… decided and she started speaking up. And… she inspired a lot of these other survivor sisters… What kind of world do you want to live in? Decide and then start doing something about it.” —Amy Wallace [22:24]

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Memorable Quotes

• “We all need to be speaking up about it, not just the survivors.”
  —Amy Wallace [02:05, 08:57]
• “It's not my shame.”
  —Virginia Giuffre (via Naga Munchetti) [08:34]
• “In some ways, these survivors, that's the only thing they can think of to do to keep the pressure on, is to keep basically opening up their worst experiences and repeat them. But that takes a toll every time they do it.”
  —Amy Wallace [10:10]
• “Do you want to live in a society that allows wealthy men… to rape underage children? If you don't, you can speak up.”
  —Amy Wallace [22:24]

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Notable Timestamps

• [02:05] – Amy Wallace on stepping forward after Giuffre’s death.
• [03:32] – The circumstances leading to the posthumous publication of the memoir.
• [04:57] – The constant threats Virginia Giuffre faced after going public.
• [06:52–08:27] – The collaboration and honesty required in writing the memoir.
• [12:29] – The complexity of survivors' relationships with abusive parents.
• [17:09–18:12] – Class, power, and the casualness of elite abuse.
• [19:32] – The legal system’s failures and ingenuity.
• [22:24] – Individual agency and the importance of speaking up.

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Takeaways

• Speaking Out Is a Collective Responsibility: Wallace emphasizes that supporting survivors and fighting for justice requires everyone’s voice—not just those directly affected.
• Systemic Barriers Persist: Abuse among the powerful is facilitated by class structures, protected by legal loopholes, and rarely results in formal justice.
• Hope Through Action: The interview delivers a strong message of hope in collective outrage, individual courage, and the power of giving voice to the voiceless.

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This episode is an unflinching but ultimately galvanizing conversation about trauma, justice, and the essential need to break silence for meaningful change.

Transcript

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[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

BBC World Service the following edition of the interview discusses rape and sexual abuse. Hello, I'm BBC presenter Naga Munchetti and this is the interview from the BBC World Service. The best conversations coming out of the BBC. People shaping our world from all over the world.

[Podcast Advertiser]

I want to get freedom.

[Amy Wallace]

I like that.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Freedom.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

A gender equal world would be a better world for men, too.

[Ryan Reynolds]

We need.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

This is fire. We need healing. We need trust.

[Amy Wallace]

These companies don't really, they don't care what governments do.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

This is a war. The first thing that we want is

[Amy Wallace]

the war to end.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

For this interview, I met Amy Wallace, who co authored Virginia Giuffre's memoir, Nobody's Girl. Giuffre accused the then Prince Andrew and late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein of sexual abuse. The former Prince, now Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, has strenuously denied any wrongdoing. The memoir, published six months after Giuffre took her own life, describes her encounters with Epstein and his former girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell. Wallis tells me she expected to be a ghostwriter, but explains why after Giuffre's death, she decided to speak out.

[Amy Wallace]

As I've reflected over these incredible nine months where I'm unusually stepping forward to speak up for her when I was gonna be completely in the shadows, which is what I signed up for. I do think that that's one of the takeaways I hope people glean out of this book, is that we all need to be speaking up about it, not just the survivors.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Amy Wallace.

[Amy Wallace]

You know, it comes out and nine days later, King Charles strips Prince Andrew, then Prince Andrew of his titles. And that kind of kicked off a million different ripple effects of the book, which are beyond anything that I think Virginia or I or the publishers ever anticipated. I mean, I think it goes to how the things that Virginia talks about in the book, not just about Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, but about the impacts of sexual abuse, particularly when You're a young person really have resonated. I think it's because so many people in our culture have been abused as kids.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

She never got to see the impact of this book. Tell me how, for anyone who doesn't know how it came to be published, even after her death.

[Amy Wallace]

Yes, she took her own life in April of last year and just. It wouldn't have been able to be published except that we had already locked the manuscript, which is a publishing term, but we had. I had flown to Australia in the fall of 2024 and basically read her every word, and we made adjustments. I had the COVID with me. I had everything done, but I just. I really wanted her to feel like she was ready for it to be born. It was such a personal book. So I went back to Australia. I'd been there once before, and we went over it, and she said, that's it. That's what I want. And then in the coming months, there were a lot things going on in her life, and at one point, she was in a car accident, and there were various things going on. And she sent an email to me and to her publicist, Denie von Meufling, saying, in the event of my death, preparing, you know, in the event of my death, I want this book published. So we had. Not only did we have a finished book, but we also had express desires from Virginia that it be published.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

And it's almost an odd way of doing an interview, but just to pick up the point. There's the point of her life then. She was fearful for her life. And I know she'd made attempts at taking her own life.

[Amy Wallace]

Yes.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

But she was fearful for the safety of herself and her family at that point.

[Amy Wallace]

Still, she always was. I mean, ever since she came Forward publicly in 2011, and I note publicly because she, like many survivors, had come forward privately and made allegations. But she was the first survivor sister, as they call themselves, the survivor sisters, to. To come forward with her face and her name. And that happened in 2011. And she was definitely made aware very quickly from the men that she would ultimately accuse that they wanted her to take their names out of her mouth. And she received credible death threats. She had her house broken into. So, yes, it was a constant. And this was a backbeat to the writing of this book, which we did mostly in secret. But, you know, she knew that I was gonna open herself up again to these same kinds of attacks.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

I'm really interested in the process of writing this book because when I started reading it, and I've had to Take a couple of weeks to read it, because I had to have a break.

[Amy Wallace]

Yeah.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

And I think even she says, right, I think it's time for. I think you need a break, and I need a break. She says that during the book.

[Amy Wallace]

She does. That was a device we came up with to help readers because it's so dark in the beginning of the book, particularly.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

Yeah. And it becomes much more uplifting and hopeful and defiant closer to the end. But you have to get through the start of, you know, her experience of abuse, which started at a very, very young age at the hands of her own father.

[Amy Wallace]

Yeah.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

When you sat down with Virginia, what did you know of her? What did you think the process would be like? How, as a journalist, were you able to push and probe and encourage her to get very painful memories and painful parts of her life down on paper and yet keep her safe?

[Amy Wallace]

Yeah, that's a really good and deep question. You know, I'd done other collaborative books as a ghostwriter. That's generally the term that's used. But this was clearly an unusually traumatic story that she was about to tell. I've got to give Virginia credit, though, in terms of. Many people have asked me, did you have to push her to put this in? Did you have to make set, Tell her, Maybe be better if you told this. She was the one that really drove the bus on. I want this in. I want to include what had happened at the hands of her father, for example. She had never said that publicly. What she had said publicly was, I was sexually abused by a family friend as a child. And that was true, and we talked about it a lot. She would say, how. How can I name the names of so many rich and powerful men who I was trafficked to? And never speak out about sort of the original sin. So she had a lot of kind of internal motivations and clarity about what she wanted to put in. The other example is when she did try to take her own life while we were writing the book, the minute she got out of the hospital and we got on the phone or on Zoom, whatever it was, she was like, we're putting that in. Because she was very clear about the shame that sexual abuse survivors feel. And she never wanted her own story if she cleaned it up and made it all tidy. And then I got married and had children, and I won a settlement from these bad people. So I had money.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

Yay.

[Amy Wallace]

Life is great. That she would make other survivors feel shameful that they couldn't just get over it.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

There's an interesting part, actually. I think she talks about being in one of the places she lived and one of another mother said, oh, it's you. And she said, oh, we don't have to talk about it if it's awkward or if it's embarrassing. And she says, no, I will talk about this. I will not hide in the shadows about this, because it's not my shame.

[Amy Wallace]

Yeah. And it kind of goes further. It's, I will talk about it, and we all should be talking about it. And I think, again, I think that as I've reflected over these incredible nine months where I'm unusually stepping forward to speak up for her when I was going to be completely in the shadows, which is what I signed up for, I do think that that's one of the takeaways I hope people glean out of this book, is that we all need to be speaking up about it, not just the survivors. And we put so much burden on the people who've actually suffered the most, the most vulnerable among us, often victimized when they were very young.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

What changed in you in regards to your understanding of sexual abuse and survivors of it during this process? Because I think as a woman, you know, you have an idea it's atrocious, it's abominable. You know, people who have been abused, oh, my goodness, they're standing up, they're speaking up. But it's the chain of events, I think, for me, as a woman that has shocked me in her life. I don't know just how it affected you.

[Amy Wallace]

I mean, gosh, there were so many ways it affected me. I mean, I was very concerned. Virginia was easy to love, and I was very concerned from a very early point in our relationship that I didn't want the process of us writing the book as much as she wanted to write it to further traumatize her, you know, and the repeating and repeating and repeating of the stories. She writes about that in the book, where it really takes a toll. And in some ways, these survivors, that's the only thing they can think of to do to keep the pressure on, is to keep basically opening up their worst experiences and repeat them. But that takes a toll every time they do it. And so we had to kind of find our way as collaborative team. You know, I tried to always let her know what we were going to be talking about in advance so she could be ready, so she could say, I'm not really up for that today. And sometimes she would say that we really started. I wanted to understand how she's such a remarkably resilient person, despite how Much she had endured. And I knew there were things in her childhood that had to be. Be the answer to why she was that kind of a person. So we really. We didn't start with the abuse. When we started talking, she was so used to serving up those stories because she was always asked to do it on demand, that I had to kind of go, we're not starting there. You know, we're going to get to know each other. We're going to need to develop trust between each other. So we really started in the happy. The few happy years of her childhood where you see her as a. As a sort of rambunctious tomboy, loved animals, climbed trees, and sort of became the person that could take on all of this stuff.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

You know, I remember when she had a horse and her horse was given away as punishment. Alice and her love of animals and the cruelty that was meted out to her, not only by her father, but by her mother. And one of the things that jarred with me, and it doesn't sit well, is how she constantly tried to repair and improve that relationship.

[Amy Wallace]

Yeah, I mean, this gets to your earlier question. Things I learned. One of the things I learned is that that is really not uncommon for children. You know, grown up children who were sexually abused when they were young. You know, there's so much pressure put on that child to keep the secret and basically to keep the family together by not saying, by not telling. And that driving force was in. Alive in Virginia when she became an adult and when she became a mother. She knew exactly what her father had done to her, but she also could remember the good things about him. And it made her sad that her kids wouldn't know those good things. And so there was this conflict within her that is really hard to read. As the person who worked with her, it was kind of hard to understand at first, like, why would you want to make up with this guy? Why were you.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

And to write it reasonably. Yeah, with reason. Do you know what I mean?

[Amy Wallace]

But I came to really understand it, which is, you're the young child who's been hurt. You're grown up now, but you want to fix it. And if you can fix it, that would be, you know, of course, that's what we all want. We all want to fix all the hurts of our young lives or the things we wish were done differently. So that was what that was about. And also, particularly, it wasn't just that she was tenacious Virginia, which she was. It was that, I think this is something that happens to all young victims. Is that they feel the pressure that it's on them to fix it. And that's pretty powerful. That's yet another burden that is placed on the young person who's been hurt.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

You're listening to the interview from the BBC World Service. When I met Amy Wallace, she was very conscious of the responsibility she holds in telling the story of Virginia Giuffre. She had spent hours, days, months talking to her, gaining her trust, and knowing that she was responsible for telling her story. In the event of Virginia Giuffre's death, it's important to say that Virginia Giuffre's father has denied all allegations of abuse. Andrew Mountbatten Windsor told Newsnight in 2019 that he did not remember meeting Jaffre and he has strenuously denied any wrongdoing.

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[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

Okay, let's return to my conversation with Amy Wallace. Like you said, you've ghostwritten other books with very influential, high profile people. What we discover about this world of Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell is something very frightening that exists that you kind of think, does it? Yeah, and it does. I mean, how much did it surprise you? How much power was there and how it was used, and with impunity, with no feeling of responsibility or regret, shame, anything?

[Amy Wallace]

Well, I think the way that works is that you look at the person you're abusing as less than you. You know, like any horrible abuse, that person isn't a person. They are there to meet your needs. And because you are higher and better. And the word that's being used a lot now is more elite. And generally, there's a lot of class issues going on here, that you're not hurting a person, you're hurting somebody who doesn't matter. And I think I kind of understood that idea when I started working with Virginia. But because of what's happened since, you know, the Epstein files, Transparency act, these documents coming out that even ones that don't show explicit wrongdoing, you read the way these people speak to each other, the way they talk about women, the way they talk about meeting their own needs at the expense of other people. And it's pretty casual. It's pretty. This is just the way of it for us.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

It's not going to supermarket for them, picking up, oh, what cereal do I want today?

[Amy Wallace]

Completely. And so the window into that, which has been enabled not just by Virginia's book and her memories of how she watched them interact, but now through so many more public documents and things that have come out since, in part because of Virginia's book and also the activism of other survivor sisters. That picture of how elites, for lack of a better term, feel they are entitled to do anything they wish and not face the consequences that you or I would face. That is a pretty pervasive way of looking at the world, at certain echelons of society. And I think we've gotten a really bracing look at that in these last months since Virginia's book came out.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

One of the things, and there were very few that made me feel uplifted about her life, understandably.

[Amy Wallace]

Yeah.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

But one of the things was that she could witness certain incidences of people being brought to justice, People, more people feeling empowered to speak out, the MeToo movement, for example, but people being held to account for their behavior and it not being pushed aside, swept under the carpet, or thought of as the. They're too difficult to go after.

[Amy Wallace]

She did. She saw the beginnings of that in part because she had these amazing lawyers. One in particular Sigrid McAuley came up with this idea that maybe we can't get them on their sexual abuse of you because statutes of limitations have run out. But if they call you a liar when you say it happened, we can get them on that. And that was brilliant, a sort of masterstroke. And that's how they sued Ghislaine Maxwell in civil court for defamation for calling her a liar when she was not a liar and won a settlement. So little by little, there were these creative ways to try to get people held to account. But let's remember, in the United States, not a single man that Virginia or any of the other survivor sisters were trafficked to has been prosecuted, let alone, we think, investigated. There's no evidence that they've even been questioned. So these women have come forward and named the names of men that they were given to, and those men have not been interviewed as long as we can. I mean, it's kind of mind boggling, you know, if you were accused of. And not everybody understands what trafficking is. You can be trafficked as an adult. Trafficking is being coerced into a sexual situation that you do not want to be in. And there are a lot of different definitions to it. So a lot of women have come forward and said, this happened to me and here's who I was given to, here's who I was trafficked to. And those men are culpable. That is a crime to have sex with somebody who's being trafficked, no matter how old they are, and they have not been held to account. That's just not the way justice is supposed to work. If you're accused of something, you shouldn't immediately be prosecuted. It has to be proven. Obviously, you're innocent until proven guilty, but you should be questioned. So, I mean, it's been the acting Attorney General in the United States, Todd Blanch, who's up for confirmation in the next two weeks, has a former Trump personal lawyer has basically said nothing to see here. We're done. The Epstein files have taken up enough

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

of our time hearing what you say there. What do you think people will learn and how will they be bolstered by this book? Because we have spoken in this country about the conviction rate for rape, for example, being abysmally low. And it is very difficult to encourage or to assure people who have been sexually assaulted that they will be listened to. This book does give a little bit of hope.

[Amy Wallace]

Yeah. You know, I think you can read it two ways. On the one hand, you can hear what I just said, and Go. Okay. These women have come forward in droves. They've been brave, they've named names, they've talked to the FBI, and still nothing's done. So that just could be depressing. The optimism that I find and that I hope people take out of this book is, and I've said it again and again, is I hope people understand that they should never underestimate the power of their own individual outrage. Do you want to live in a society that allows wealthy men, mostly some women, to rape underage children? Do you want to live in a world like that? If you don't, you can speak up. And how do we have the proof that that can matter? Virginia. Virginia is a young woman who never graduated from high school in the United States. She had no material wealth, and at one point, after she has her third child, who happens to be female, she decides, I don't want to live in a world like this. I don't want to raise my children in a world like this, and I'm going to make the world better. She had no reason to believe that she could do that. She didn't have power behind her at that point or resources. But she decided and she started speaking up. And I think there is no question, while there is a lot of credit to go around for the progress that's been made, that Virginia, she inspired a lot of these other survivor sisters to come forward. She started a movement, and if she can do that, we all need to be doing it, and we should be inspired by that. What kind of world do you want to live in? Decide and then start doing something about it. Don't sit on your hands or in the United States, don't go, like, what can I do? All these, the Trump administration is corrupt or whatever people are saying, that's a cop out. Step up, speak out. Make your world, whether it's your local community, the world you want it to be, and be loud about it. And I think I do find that inspiring.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

I'm all for being loud.

[Amy Wallace]

I can tell that.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

Amy Wallace, it is. You know, I'm very glad I've read the book. It wasn't easy, but it got easier and more hopeful. And I think you've articulated that really, really, really well. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

[Amy Wallace]

Of course. It's my pleasure.

[BBC Presenter Naga Munchetti]

Thank you for listening to the interview. For more compelling conversations, search for the interview. Wherever you get your BBC podcasts, you'll find episodes from writer Maggie o', Farrell, Sierra Leone's first lady Fatima Bio, and head of the World Health Organization. Dr. Ted Ross. Until the next time. Bye for now.

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