Chaka Khan, singer: Music is a calling

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Interview – Chaka Khan, singer: Music Is a Calling

Date: May 24, 2026
Host: Nick Grimshaw (BBC World Service)
Co-Host: Annie McManus
Guest: Chaka Khan

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Overview

In this episode of The Interview, Nick Grimshaw and Annie McManus sit down with Chaka Khan, the iconic American singer, songwriter, and “Queen of Funk,” to discuss her extraordinary musical journey, her sense of self, overcoming personal challenges, and her philosophy on music as a source of healing and joy. The conversation also explores her unique relationships with other musical legends such as Prince and Stevie Wonder, as well as reflections inspired by the new London stage musical about her life.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Chaka Khan’s Early Life & Musical Calling

[03:43–07:51]

• Chaka Khan reflects on her upbringing in Chicago’s Hyde Park amidst a culturally vibrant yet economically challenged environment.
• Witnessing her mother’s struggles as a single parent inspired her sense of responsibility and drive:
  • “I watched her try to get it together with that big belly and getting on the bike and riding a bike to work in the snow. I said, Mommy, one day you'll never have to do this again… And that's exactly what I did.” (Chaka Khan, 07:06)

2. Self-Belief, Conviction, and Honesty

[05:05–06:18]

• Chaka attributes her resilience and directness to innate qualities rather than learned behavior:
  • “Yeah, it's something that you have to be born with. You can't acquire that… it just is.” (Chaka Khan, 06:08)
• She emphasizes the importance of honesty in her life and career.

3. The Transformative Power of Music

[08:10–09:20]

• Chaka discovered her “calling” at a young age through exposure to jazz (thanks to her father and grandmother) and her involvement at the Afro Arts Theater:
  • “We would put on a show every Saturday to raise money for the community and to keep the place open.” (Chaka Khan, 09:05)

4. Overcoming Stage Fright and Finding True Connection

[09:57–11:30]

• Despite her reputation for powerhouse performances, Chaka admits to always being terrified before going on stage:
  • “I've always been terrified. I still am.” (Chaka Khan, 09:57)
• Advice from Carlos Santana helped her reframe stage presence:
  • “When you touch the ocean, you touch the whole ocean. … So when you get on stage, focus on one person. If you touch them, you touch everyone. They'll touch everyone. And that freed me up.” (Chaka Khan on Carlos Santana’s advice, 11:13–11:16)

5. Navigating Gender Dynamics in the Music Industry

[11:35–12:07]

• Chaka candidly addresses resentment from male counterparts but insists on staying above the fray:
  • “I’ve got a lot of resentment from a lot of guys. Yeah. But I don’t even hear that. I’m not trying to hear that.” (Chaka Khan, 11:50)

6. Labels vs. Artistic Identity

[12:07–13:01]

• She resists being pigeonholed as the “Queen of Funk”:
  • “You just put funk on me… It's not fair. … It doesn’t matter. The label that they put on… Most people know what I am.” (Chaka Khan, 12:10–13:01)

7. Chaka’s Motivation: Passion Over Recognition

[13:31–14:16]

• Awards and accolades are not her motivation:
  • “If they give me whatever, thank you. And give it to my mother… I’m not doing it for a Grammy. … I’m doing what I do because I love and I feel honored and so lucky to be able to do something for a living that brings me… joy.” (Chaka Khan, 13:35–14:00)

8. Music as a Calling and Lifelong Commitment

[15:33–16:30]

• Discussing longevity with Stevie Wonder, Chaka emphasizes music as a lifelong calling, not a job:
  • “This is a calling. It’s bigger than anything in your life as an individual. If you found the thing that you were put on this planet to do… such a gift to find it or something to know it.” (Chaka Khan, 15:33–15:56)
• Music as a form of healing:
  • “Music truly heals. … When I’m on stage, that’s what I’m doing.” (Chaka Khan, 16:30)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On watching her life become a musical:

  • “It’s not something that you can ever prepare yourself for… It’s an honor unlike any other.” (Chaka Khan, 04:38)

• On her relationship with her voice:

  • “Well, there are times… it’s bigger than me. So I just have to surrender.” (Chaka Khan, 16:20)

• On her mother keeping her awards:

  • “She keeps all your awards.” (Annie McManus, 13:44)
  • “All my stuff… She’s got a big old thing with all my stuff in it.” (Chaka Khan, 13:45–13:47)

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Partnership and Friendship with Prince

[20:17–26:07]

• On Prince’s death and what it meant:
  • “We knew that we were family and kindred. I swear, he was the best of anyone I ever knew. … It shocked me. It was a shock. … And I became family, you know, My family became his family… sometimes you are born into situations that just don’t fit… you gotta find your own family.” (Chaka Khan, 20:42–22:32)
• On being paid in gold nuggets:
  • “He used to pay me in gold nuggets actually.” (Chaka Khan, 23:36)
• On being adored by Prince:
  • “He just held me up on a high pedestal, and I was not comfortable with that… But he was a good guy. He was a good man.” (Chaka Khan, 23:08–24:53)
• On Prince’s legacy:
  • “This is love. I felt loved and I loved him… we had such deep, beautiful conversations…” (Chaka Khan, 25:15–26:03)
• On their honesty in the studio:
  • “Absolutely. … Just be straight up. I told her if I didn’t like it, I didn’t like it.” (Chaka Khan, 26:26–26:37)

---

Collaboration with Stevie Wonder

[26:40–27:19]

• The infamous “Tell Me Something Good” story:
  • “I said, what else you got, Stevie?” (Chaka Khan, 26:57)
  • “He said, what’s your first name? I said, Aries. I knew it. I got the song for you.” (Chaka Khan, 27:04)

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Wisdom, Advice, and Reflections

Chaka’s Advice for Young Artists

[28:12–28:48]

• “Be true to yourself first. Be true to yourself. Then you can be true to everybody else. … Be honest. … The most important quality… is telling the truth. Live your truth.” (Chaka Khan, 28:23–28:48)

On Artistic Integrity

• “Don’t you think audience can tell when someone’s not telling the truth?” (Nick Grimshaw, 27:41)
• “Hell, yeah. People are not stupid.” (Chaka Khan, 27:43)

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Timeline of Notable Segments

| Timestamp | Topic / Moment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:43 | Chaka reflects on early struggles and her mother's influence | | 04:38 | Reaction to the musical about her life | | 06:08 | On honesty and innate confidence | | 09:57 | Chaka acknowledges her ongoing stage fright | | 11:13 | Carlos Santana’s advice about stage presence | | 12:10 | Views on being labeled "queen of funk" | | 13:35 | Chaka on business, awards, and intrinsic motivation | | 15:33 | Chaka echoes Stevie Wonder: music as a calling, not a job | | 16:30 | Music as a form of healing | | 20:42 | On Prince’s death, loss, and the search for “found family” | | 23:36 | Story about being paid by Prince in gold nuggets | | 26:26 | Studio honesty in collaborations with Prince | | 26:51 | The “Tell Me Something Good” story with Stevie Wonder | | 28:23 | Chaka’s advice to her younger self and future artists |

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Conclusion

This episode offers a vibrant, candid, and deeply personal portrait of Chaka Khan: a woman who channels love, pain, and healing through music; who resists easy categorization; and who has survived and thrived through honesty, passion, and resilience. Her legacy is defined not just by her unmistakable voice and iconic hits, but by her unwavering sense of self—offering inspiration for artists and listeners alike.

Transcript

[Nick Grimshaw]

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[Nick Grimshaw]

Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day. But what policy changes should investors be watching? Washington Wise is an original podcast from Charles Schwab that unpacks the stories making news in Washington right now and how they may affect your finances and portfolio. [e-mail] Washingtonwise that's schwab.com Washingtonwise hello, I am Nick Grimshaw from the BBC and this is the interview from the BBC World Service. The best conversations coming out of the BBC people shaping our world from all over the world. If you're not a little bit afraid

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then you're not paying attention.

[Chaka Khan]

We have never seen a people so

[Annie McManus]

united do not make that boat crossing do not make that journey Being born

[Chaka Khan]

in America, feeling American having people treat

[Nick Grimshaw]

me like I'm not We're more popular than populism. For this interview, Annie McManus and I met the legendary American singer, songwriter and queen of funk, Shaka Khan, here at the BBC in London. Born Yvette Marie Stevens in 1953, she endured a troubled childhood growing up in the US city of Chicago, Illinois. And after being introduced to jazz by her grandmother at a young age, music soon became her escape. Shaka's big break came at the age of just 20 when her band Rufus, signed its first record deal. With her powerful vocals and incredible, striking stage presence, she quickly caught the public's attention. The band, whose hits include Ain't no Body, enjoyed commercial and critical success in the years that followed, winning a Grammy Award, seeing six albums go platinum and Working with Stevie. Wonderful. Despite this, the band and their lead singer gradually drifted apart, with Shaka deciding to go it alone around a decade later. A decision which transformed her life and career. She went on to have huge worldwide hits such as I'm Every Woman and I Feel for you, as well as collaborations with more legends like Whitney Houston and Prince, not to mention a further nine Grammys and an induction into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. Her musical journey provides a lot for the 73 year old to reflect on.

[Chaka Khan]

How many people get to make a living on doing something that brings over, I mean, just crazy mad love enjoyment to you?

[Annie McManus]

Yes.

[Chaka Khan]

They just are everything for you. I'm so lucky and blessed to have that aspect in my life that I. Hell, I ain't saying much. I just say thank you.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Shaka Khan.

[Annie McManus]

We have so much to discuss, Shaka, but let's start with why you are here in London. There's a musical happening which is all about your life story.

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah.

[Annie McManus]

How is it watching a musical of your life? Not many people can say they've done something like that.

[Chaka Khan]

It's not something that, you know, you can never prepare yourself for. You know, when I see all these beautiful young people who are doing a great job actually capturing me, capturing what I was going through and what life was like 50 years ago up till now, it's interesting. It's an honor unlike any other.

[Annie McManus]

There's so much to discuss. But when you look back at your life, right, and this must. You've obviously had to do this with the musical. I can imagine looking at all the kind of key points in your life that then can become a story on stage. But so many of them speak to the fact that you have a very like, strong sense of worth and self belief and conviction in doing things for you. Would that be correct to say, does it feel.

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah, I'm honest to a fault, which is so needed. No fakey stuff. You know, I. I'm really about, you know, making. Improving things, making things better. Making people flip. Yeah. You know, into something good.

[Annie McManus]

Yes.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Yeah. Because I, you know, that that sense of self and as you say, that honesty is apparent in your music. I wanted to know when I was sure. Yeah, I just wanted to know, like, where did that come from, that sort of confidence in, in knowing yourself and was it always something that you were born with or was it something that you. Something you were born with?

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah, it's something that you have to be born with. You can't acquire that you can't put it on. You can't practice that. It just is. Either it's the way you are or it's not.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Or it's not.

[Annie McManus]

There's a part of your life which I was always very interested in, which is when you decided to leave home. What were you, 16?

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah.

[Annie McManus]

And you brought your dog with you.

[Chaka Khan]

Yes. Mimi, can you tell us a little labdo retriever? As much as, you know, my mother and I, we were class. We classed heads. And she's a very strict, kind of strict mom.

[Annie McManus]

Okay.

[Chaka Khan]

She loved her kids and she, you know, she thought it was tough then. Now is what's happening. It was, you know, but she was a single mom at the time, you know, and so she had to do a lot on her own.

[Annie McManus]

And there was.

[Chaka Khan]

I watched her. I watched her when I was young. Just when my. The first time my dad. My dad had left, they got. They broke up.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

I watched her in Chicago in the wintertime snow, and I watched her pregnant, riding a bike to work. I stood in the window. I can almost cry. Just telling.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

And I cried. And I said to myself out loud, I talked to her through the window. She couldn't hear me, of course, but, yeah, I watched her try to get it together with that big belly and getting on the bike and riding a bike to work in the snow. I said, mommy, one day you'll never have to do this again. I'm gonna buy you a house and you're gonna be happy and you'll never have to do this again. And that's exactly what I did.

[Annie McManus]

Wow.

[Chaka Khan]

Several years later.

[Annie McManus]

Wow.

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah.

[Annie McManus]

That's incredible.

[Nick Grimshaw]

I want to know about this because I'm always intrigued when we get to speak to a guest about, you know, how it began and what that drive was. So maybe that was part of it. Seeing your mum like that and achieved

[Annie McManus]

like that, along with having that conviction, the courage to le and bring your dog and just know you needed to go and do something.

[Chaka Khan]

I knew my calling. I recognized the fact. My father, who is a philosopher of sorts, who was my favorite guy in the world.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

I mean, he's very liberal and cool, you know, A beatnik, they called him back in those days. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He would take me to see his favorite jazz, you know, artist.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

We grew up in an area in Chicago called Hyde park, which is surrounded with the University of Chicago, which means that a lot of interesting people came into my life from a very early age, you know, and we were like, right in the middle. We were island in the middle. Of a ghetto. And so it was very interesting. My grandma.

[Nick Grimshaw]

And when you were going to all those gigs or, you know, your dad was introduced into this music, did you think it was something that you wanted to do or something you.

[Chaka Khan]

Well, that's what I found out, what my calling was. I was involved in this theater called the Afro Arts Theater.

[Annie McManus]

Right.

[Chaka Khan]

And it was just right on the brink between the ghetto and in Hyde Park. So I got a lot of African culture going on there. There were like dancers. We would put on a show every Saturday to raise money for the community and to keep the place open.

[Annie McManus]

Wow.

[Chaka Khan]

And we wore nothing, but we wore garb. It was a way of life. I never wore regular clothes. We made our own clothes. We were just really serious. Serious. Yeah.

[Annie McManus]

Wow.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Saying to Annie before with this, I said, you're so fantastic on stage as a vocalist and a performer, but you're so sort of in yourself and cool on the stage and just so at ease on the stage and as an audience member. It's always great to see someone on the stage that you're not nervous for or worried for. You're like, you feel like you're hearing, I'm in safe hands. Shaka Khan's on the stage. But what was your relationship with being on stage? Do you remember the first time you stepped foot on the stage?

[Chaka Khan]

I've always been terrified.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Really?

[Chaka Khan]

I still am. Wow.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Oh, I bet Chaka Khan does not get scared.

[Chaka Khan]

Oh, hell yeah, I do. Oh, you do?

[Nick Grimshaw]

Okay.

[Chaka Khan]

But I find it a good thing.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Uh huh.

[Annie McManus]

So at what point does the fear turn into enjoyment?

[Chaka Khan]

Do you get up there? Here's the deal. I was doing a lot of gigs and I was like, I was petrified for a long time and I found a way to not up here that way. I never talked to the audience. I just said at most what the next song was. You know, I wasn't like, yeah, you know, sharing. I wished I could, but I just.

[Annie McManus]

It was too much.

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah. So we were doing a show with Santana, Carlo Santana. And I was talking to him and I said, carlos. I said, I said, the hardest time communicating with the audience. He says, what you do when you sing? I said, yeah, but I don't feel. It's an honest and true communication.

[Annie McManus]

Right.

[Chaka Khan]

You know, it doesn't feel. I'm not comfortable. He said, here's the deal. He said, when you touch the ocean, you touch the whole ocean.

[Annie McManus]

Wow.

[Chaka Khan]

When you put your foot in the ocean, your entire foot.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

Is touching the entire ocean.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

He said, you got to think of. Think of it that way.

[Annie McManus]

Wow.

[Chaka Khan]

And that. So when you get on stage, focus on one person. If you touch them, you touch everyone. They'll touch everyone. Wow. And that freed me up. Yeah, that freed me up.

[Annie McManus]

Wow. That's an incredible piece of.

[Chaka Khan]

Yes.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

And so that's what I did, and that's what I still do.

[Nick Grimshaw]

As we said it. That one person.

[Annie McManus]

Was there a point in your career when you did actually realize your power? Do you know what I mean? Because I can imagine.

[Chaka Khan]

I probably don't.

[Annie McManus]

When you're young and you're surrounded by mostly men who are kind of in, like, taking control of the situation and you are the singer, the talents.

[Chaka Khan]

I. I've got a lot of resentment from a lot of guys. Yeah. But I don't even hear that. I'm not trying to hear that. I'm not trying to see it. I'm not trying to give it recognition or power or any energy.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

You know what I'm saying?

[Annie McManus]

You don't want.

[Chaka Khan]

You don't worry about the end result, how we come together and how we can make it happen. And that's it. That's all.

[Annie McManus]

Let's talk about funk, because a lot of people call you the queen of funk.

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah. How do you feel about other titles? I think they're cutting me too short there.

[Annie McManus]

I think they are, too.

[Chaka Khan]

You know that you just put funk on me. It's just. It's not fair.

[Annie McManus]

But, like, it's interesting, funk. Because there is a genre, I suppose you can call funk, but it's also like a. It's also a spirit.

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah.

[Annie McManus]

It's like a. Funk is a way of. A way of being, Would you say?

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah. It's like saying, I only know one word to communicate.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Yeah.

[Annie McManus]

Got you. Too narrow for you.

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah. That's not fair. It's unfair. It's like. But if. Look, I had to just sit down with it and just say, you know what? I don't care what. What they think, what they're feeling. I know what I am. Most people know what I. It doesn't matter. The label that they put on that people feel. Feel. And I know it's out of love. It is not anything malicious. I'm not tripping that hard.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah.

[Nick Grimshaw]

I also think people like to categorize things. They love to say they like the neatness. They sound like that. Or she's a bit like that.

[Chaka Khan]

Like they're folding all their socks and put them in a sock job.

[Annie McManus]

Exactly.

[Nick Grimshaw]

I don't.

[Chaka Khan]

I don't do that.

[Nick Grimshaw]

No.

[Chaka Khan]

I don't live like that. I like doing that either, so. For their comfort.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Yeah, it's for their comfort. How do you feel about that side of it when people are writing about you or talking about you or maybe reviewing you? You know, because this is, I presume, not the reason you got into music was to, you know, win an award or get a review.

[Chaka Khan]

No, I did not. Never.

[Nick Grimshaw]

So how do you deal with that side of the business? I guess the business side.

[Chaka Khan]

I don't.

[Nick Grimshaw]

I just don't.

[Chaka Khan]

I just. If they give me whatever. Thank you. And give it to my mother. My mother. My mother.

[Annie McManus]

She keeps all your awards.

[Chaka Khan]

All my stuff.

[Annie McManus]

Well, she must have a big old shelf.

[Chaka Khan]

She does. She's got a big old thing with all my stuff in it.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Wait, so you have no Grammys? They've all got.

[Chaka Khan]

She's got all them. Wow. But I don't need those. Not why I'm doing it. I'm not doing it for a Grammy.

[Annie McManus]

You got your drum kit. That's all you need.

[Chaka Khan]

I'm not doing it. Yeah. I'm not doing it for anything but just. Cause I love it. I'm doing what I do. Cause I love and I feel honored and so lucky to be able to do something for a living that brings me and gives me joy.

[Annie McManus]

Also like the. The nature of singing for a living, like singing for a job. I can't imagine what that must feel like because it's.

[Chaka Khan]

It's your whole body.

[Annie McManus]

You're giving every.

[Chaka Khan]

Like it's. How many people get.

[BritBox Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

To make a living on doing something that brings over. I mean just crazy mad love. Enjoy. Enjoyment to you.

[Annie McManus]

Yes.

[Chaka Khan]

They just are everything for you. I'm so lucky and blessed to have that. That aspect in my life that I. Hell, I ain't saying much. I should say. Thank you.

[Nick Grimshaw]

We should talk about Stevie because Annie got to go and meet Stevie Wonder and did an amazing interview with Stevie.

[Chaka Khan]

Isn't he wonderful?

[Annie McManus]

He was amazing.

[Chaka Khan]

He brought his heart to spirit.

[Annie McManus]

He played music all the way through.

[Chaka Khan]

Beautiful spirit.

[Annie McManus]

He was so funny.

[Chaka Khan]

That's all. He wasn't ready for piano and his jokes.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah, I wasn't ready for how funny like the humor was. It was side splittingly funny.

[Chaka Khan]

Girl, he's got.

[Annie McManus]

But he was amazing. But he said that he would be playing music until he couldn't breathe anymore. Like that was his thing.

[Chaka Khan]

That's it.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah. Because I stupidly asked him about retirement and he was like, retire?

[Chaka Khan]

Who re.

[Nick Grimshaw]

What Retirement?

[Chaka Khan]

What do you mean retirement? Exactly, I get it.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah.

[Annie McManus]

You're the Same.

[Chaka Khan]

You feel that I don't see. I don't know what you mean by retard. This is a calling. It's bigger than anything in your life as an individual. If you found the thing that you were put on this planet to do. A lot of people are put on this planet and they don't know.

[Annie McManus]

Oh, they don't know. It's such a gift to find it

[Chaka Khan]

or something to know it. Yeah, I mean it's there. But some people actually fear that because it's total.

[Annie McManus]

Yes, it is.

[Chaka Khan]

Totality.

[Annie McManus]

Can I ask Shaka about your voice and your relationship to your voice? Like it's so unique. It's given you an entire career. Is there times that you resent it? Yeah, yeah. Or, or the other or just like.

[Chaka Khan]

Well, there are times, let me tell you when I, you know, it's bigger than me.

[Annie McManus]

Right.

[Chaka Khan]

So I just have to surrender.

[Annie McManus]

But that's easy to.

[Chaka Khan]

And what a nice thing to surrender to. It's not the worst thing. I mean there are people whose calling are to save lives, right? I mean physically give air supply, blood, something, you know. There are other callings that I think are important, extremely important and they have to do it. I don't know any people like that. I haven't met many people like that. Healers, true healers. I'm also, I do some healing myself. I lay hands. I know that music is a form of healing. Sure it is very important and underestimated, under, not well known. But it is truly. Music truly heals. So when I'm on stage, that's what I'm doing. There's nothing like being in line, having alignment with your reason for being on this planet.

[Nick Grimshaw]

You're listening to the interview from the BBC World Service.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first but didn't live up to the hype? Like those $5 roses at a gas station. Or a second hand piece of technology that breaks in the first 10 minutes. Marketers know that feeling. We optimize for the numbers that look great, impressions reach and reacts. But when they don't show revenue, well, that's a not so great conversation with the CFO. LinkedIn has a word for bullspend. Now you can invest in what looks good to your CFO. LinkedIn Ads generates the highest roas of all major ad networks. You'll reach the right buyers because you can target by company, industry, job title and more. So cut the bull. Spend. Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a 250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com broadcast that's LinkedIn.com broadcast. Terms and conditions apply.

[BritBox Advertiser]

She was the sister who went unnoticed. A daffodil might look plain next to a lily on its own. There is much to be admired. Now her greatest chapter is yet to come. The most important thing is to be yourself. From the world of Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice comes a new Britbox original drama, Mary, you will flourish. Based on the best selling novel the Other Bennet Sister. Now streaming only on BritBox. Watch with a free trial at BritBox.com

[Nick Grimshaw]

when we get to interview someone like Shaka Khan, it's a really funny thing to do because Shaka Khan has been truly foundational in the music industry, in the music that we know and love. She is a really, really special artist. Someone that is the real deal, someone that has really lived, that is pure talent, but also manages to be just really approachable, really easy to talk to. And sometimes you think these people are gonna be hard to talk to because of who they are, but actually, I think quite the opposite. The reason that they are stars is that they are so human, they're so able to connect with. Maybe that's why we fall in love with them as musicians, because they have this openness and ability to be magnetic. She was a real remarkable person to get to spend time with. So let's get back into our conversation. The one and only Shaka Khan.

[Annie McManus]

We need to talk about Prince, if that's okay. We have lots of questions about Prince, but we'll work backwards. So when he died, 2016, 10 years ago.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Yeah.

[Annie McManus]

You canceled the tour and you said that his death made you realize something and you and your sister took yourself off and put your well being first. What. What happened then? What was the change in your thinking?

[Chaka Khan]

Well, for one, I could tell if somebody's using. And we were close enough around, you know, before his death and we were close enough throughout when we became you and Prince loved. So we loved each other and we knew that we were family and kindred. I swear, he was the best of anyone ever knew. I couldn't. I did not see it.

[Annie McManus]

You didn't see him? I didn't get any hints.

[Chaka Khan]

He was so good at it. Wow. And he was, you know, he was a very private person and he really relished that.

[Annie McManus]

Yes.

[Chaka Khan]

That was the most important thing to him, to his privacy. So I said, okay, he's gonna be private. That's okay. But I Never once thought, not a thought in my head because we were eating right, we were, we were like fasting. We were doing all kind of great stuff, you know. He's not a. He's not an eater.

[Annie McManus]

Right.

[Chaka Khan]

Food was not his number one sustenance. Music was. He had a lot of lacks in his life. Lack of love from family and stuff like that. So we became like family and. And it was a beautiful thing. And I was just. It. It shocked me. It was a shock. I'm really usually good at getting to know people's spirit. I get to know people, you know, and I heal. I do heal. Yeah. It came as a complete shock to me and I'm still shocked. I knew what his problems were and his pains. Where was his family and lack there or lack thereof. And I became family, you know, My family became his family, you know. And sometimes that's the way it is. Sometimes you are born into situations that just don't fit and aren't right. Friends.

[Annie McManus]

You gotta find your own family.

[Chaka Khan]

You gotta find it. Yeah, I'm hip to that. He was hip to that and he did. So I was shocked. It took me quite a while to get just to date. Well, I could have helped, right?

[Annie McManus]

Of course. Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

But it wasn't my job.

[Annie McManus]

No, it wasn't.

[Nick Grimshaw]

No.

[Chaka Khan]

I had to come to that conclusion. And so now, you know, he's still here. He's still with me. He's still. I feel him. Oh yes, he's still around.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Could you take us back to the first time that you gel with him? When did it become magic between you and Prince?

[Chaka Khan]

Oh, when we were in the studio, we were working together.

[Annie McManus]

Can you remember the first thing you made together?

[Chaka Khan]

No, I can't remember the first thing. The first time. I do remember though that he was just so. He just held me up on such a high pedestal and I was not comfortable with that, with my self imposed humility. But he, he lifted me up and he treated me like a queen.

[Annie McManus]

Wow.

[Chaka Khan]

He really, really, really did. He used to pay me in gold nuggets actually.

[Annie McManus]

Excuse me.

[Chaka Khan]

Yep. We worked and he worked in the studio. He didn't have to pay me. We're both going to make money together. We were both doing it, you know, doing a thing together to make, to get some shit. Whenever I worked in the studio with him. Yet gold bars, look, old bars. You give me love.

[Nick Grimshaw]

And where the gold bars now I

[Chaka Khan]

have most of them.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Oh yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

I don't know what some of them are from moving, but they'll come up, they'll Pop up. They'll pop up somewhere because I need them. When you have a gold bar, how

[Annie McManus]

do you even convert that to money these days? Like, do you go walk into a bank and say, yeah, like, yeah, I

[Chaka Khan]

guess you do sell them. Yeah, you could sell them online. You go online, say, I too, for sale, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah, you can do that too.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Don't worry about that.

[Chaka Khan]

But I'm not. Think I'm not treating that like fantastic. Yeah, yeah, I like gold. I mean, I'm wearing my, my, my money. Beautiful.

[Annie McManus]

It's important to say that Shaka is

[Chaka Khan]

wearing the most beautiful gold jewelry. I have to use a barter system. The barter system. I'm ready.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Could I ask what it's like to be on a stage with someone like Prince?

[Chaka Khan]

Like, he adored me. That was hard to be around.

[Nick Grimshaw]

And is it hard to be adored like that? Did you find that quite.

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah, I found it. It was.

[Annie McManus]

For me, it was like, you're too humble for that.

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah, I am. I am.

[Annie McManus]

And, but on stage, how did that feel?

[Chaka Khan]

Like it was. I still was too humble for that. Wherever I was. Yeah.

[Annie McManus]

Okay.

[Chaka Khan]

So he was on and on. He was. He really put me up with there. Yeah. Which is. And I could, I guess I could use some of it, you know, because maybe I was a little too humble in some areas, but he was a good guy. He was a good man.

[Nick Grimshaw]

What's your lasting memory of Prince? Like your personal, I guess, legacy of him?

[Chaka Khan]

This is love. I felt loved and I loved him, you know, in the all in a 365 degree way. Did you learn? Never touched him. He never touched me. I wouldn't have it anybody shorter than me, it's not going to happen here. I got that straight. You know, people always, you know, just assume, you know, yeah, they were screwing, but they did.

[Annie McManus]

Did you learn anything off him?

[Chaka Khan]

I learned lots of stuff. And he learned a lot from each other. He learned a lot for each other.

[Annie McManus]

So what's the enduring thing that you learned from him?

[Chaka Khan]

God, y', all, please. I never thought about that. I have no idea. There's so much. We had such deep, beautiful conversations, you know, that's what I really loved about it. Yeah, he's a man.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah, he's a revolutionary.

[Chaka Khan]

He was more of a man than almost every man I met.

[Annie McManus]

Right?

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah. Bigger man. And all of got bigger cojones than anybody I met. He had no fear. And I was fearless, too. We were both fearless. I was a Black Panther. Yeah. You know, I came. We came to the same place and we knew what was going on.

[Nick Grimshaw]

And were you guys honest with each other in the studio? You know, if you do something to. You'd be like, that's not working.

[Chaka Khan]

Absolutely.

[Nick Grimshaw]

And do you think you've got to just do that? Because I imagine sometimes there's people are

[Chaka Khan]

like, oh, yeah, I like it.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Or precious, do you think?

[Chaka Khan]

Just be straight up. I told her if I didn't like it, I didn't like it.

[Annie McManus]

There's that famous, very famous now infamous story with Stevie. Right when Stevie won.

[Chaka Khan]

Oh, yeah. Tell me something good. I was like, what? So what you want me to do with this? What do you say? What was this on? Tell me something good.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah, it was. But he played you something and you

[Chaka Khan]

were like, before that. I didn't like it. I said, what else you got?

[Annie McManus]

What else you got?

[Chaka Khan]

What else you got, Stevie?

[Nick Grimshaw]

Wonderful. What else you got, Stevie?

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah, what else you got?

[Annie McManus]

And then didn't he ask you your star sign?

[Chaka Khan]

He said, what's your first name? I said, aries. I knew it. I got the song for you.

[Annie McManus]

And he did it.

[Chaka Khan]

I said, okay, why are you holding

[Nick Grimshaw]

out, asking what star signing you? And be like, I got a song for you. I got a song for you.

[Chaka Khan]

No. Yeah. I think that was just another way of saying, we'll try this.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

You know what I'm saying? You know, sometimes you just do the kitty stuff, you know, but that's.

[Annie McManus]

That's why you have such a long time. Because. Because you're good at saying no.

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah.

[Nick Grimshaw]

You know what's right?

[Annie McManus]

You know what suits you.

[Chaka Khan]

Yeah. It's a freaking good underused word, right? Yeah.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Don't you think audience can tell when someone's not telling the truth?

[Chaka Khan]

Hell, yeah. Yeah. People are not stupid. We under. You know, people are not stupid.

[Annie McManus]

And do you think you can tell when someone's not singing the truth?

[Chaka Khan]

No. Pretty much. If I don't want to go that far.

[Annie McManus]

Yeah.

[Chaka Khan]

If it's worth it. I mean, if they singing their ass off and I think that there's something missing or there's something. Yeah, I do it. I have talked to people. I've. Yeah. What's the matter? What's going on with this song? What? And they tell. There's something going on.

[Nick Grimshaw]

A lot of times with the musical being out and you're reflecting on your life and you're looking back at your career. What would you think you'd give advice to yourself, like the Younger Shack or what advice?

[Chaka Khan]

Anybody coming up, Be true to yourself first. Be true to yourself. Then you can Be true to everybody else. Be honest. Honesty is the best and the most important quality that there is in life and getting along with people and talking. Just be real. Be honest. Be Tell the truth. Tell your truth. Live your truth. Live it.

[Nick Grimshaw]

Thank you for listening to the interview. You can find more in depth conversations on the interview wherever you get your BBC podcasts, including episodes with Beatles drummer Ringo Starr, Oscar winning director Gu Del Toro and artist Tracey Emin. And you can hear more conversations on Sidetracked with Annie and Nick. Until the next time. Bye for now.

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[BritBox Advertiser]

She was the sister who went unnoticed. A daffodil might look plain next to a lily, but on its own there is much to be admired. Now her greatest chapter is yet to come. The most important thing is to be yourself. From the world of Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice comes a new Britbox original drama. Mary, you will Flourish, based on the best selling novel the Other Bennett Sister, now streaming only on Britbox. Watch for the free [e-mail].