Podcast Summary: The Interview – Colombian President Gustavo Petro: US Military Action is a Real Threat
Host: Ione Wells (BBC World Service)
Guest: Gustavo Petro, President of Colombia
Date: January 16, 2026
Duration: ~24 minutes

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between BBC South America correspondent Ione Wells and Colombian President Gustavo Petro, Colombia’s first left-wing leader and a former guerrilla. Amid recent escalations in US-Latin American relations, including the seizure of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro by US forces, Petro voices concerns over the threat of American military action against Colombia, critiques US immigration enforcement, discusses his approach to narco-trafficking, and calls for a new, environmentally focused partnership with the US. The episode offers candid insight into the complex dynamics shaping US-Colombian and broader regional relations at a time of high tension.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. US-Colombia Tensions and Threat of Military Action

• Petro warns of a “real threat” of US military intervention in Colombia following President Trump’s public remarks supporting such an action.

• Describes the danger of US "imperial" behavior and the risk of America shifting "from global leadership to increasing isolation" (02:20, 21:57).

• Draws parallels between the current climate and historical US military interventions in Latin America (07:44).

  “I do believe it's a real threat, and the prospect of removing it depends on the ongoing conversations.” — Gustavo Petro (07:44)

2. The Role of US Immigration Enforcement (ICE)

• Petro intensely criticizes US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), likening its tactics to fascist brigades of the past:

  “For us, ICE operates the same way as the Nazi and Italian brigades, the fascists persecuting and provoking people. ...they also kill citizens of the United States.” — Gustavo Petro (03:18, 21:57)

• He calls for American societal reflection and warns that such policies may further isolate the US globally.

3. Dialogue with President Trump

• Petro details a recent, mediated phone call with Trump, brokered by Senator Rand Paul (04:04).

• In the conversation, Petro addressed misconceptions about drug trafficking in Colombia, advocated for cooperation, and sought to clarify US-Colombian relations.

  “There was never any direct communication with Joe Biden, from the moment he took office…it was very intense. The communication gap…was filled by the Colombian opposition [in the US].” — Gustavo Petro (04:50)

• He notes the rapid escalation provoked, in part, by Colombia’s own opposition leveraging US politics (05:02).

4. Drug War, Accusations, and Policy Response

• Petro refutes Trump’s allegations of being a drug trafficker and explains the transparency of his finances and long-standing commitment to fighting narco-trafficking:

  "I publicly released my bank statements here…I only own my house, which I'm paying off because I built it with a mortgage. ...For 20 years, and this is important, I have been fighting against the drug cartels at the cost of my family having to go into exile, my mother, my father and others. And they tried to assassinate me four times..." (17:36)

• He stresses his administration’s record-breaking cocaine seizures and multifaceted approach combining dialogue, selective military action, and focus on targeting kingpins rather than poor farmers (19:46).

  "This past year was one of the lowest years for homicide rates in Colombia since 1993…The seizures we've made are the largest cocaine seizures in world history." (19:52, 20:42)

5. CIA Interference and National Sovereignty

• Responds to questions about foreign espionage: Petro denounces covert CIA-sponsored operations in Colombia, including the illegal implementation of Israeli spyware (Pegasus), and calls for the strict limitation of foreign intelligence cooperation to counter-drug efforts (16:01).

  “It is an illegal act that the Colombian prosecutor's office has refused to investigate…but it is the latest such act discovered.” — Gustavo Petro (16:48)

6. Venezuela, Maduro, and Failed Negotiations

• Petro outlines Colombia’s attempts to mediate peaceful resolutions in Venezuela, focusing on promoting free elections in exchange for lifting US sanctions (11:06).

• Admits these efforts fell short due to breakdowns in trust and execution on both sides:

  "There was neither an end to the electoral process nor an end to the persecution of the groups. All of that failed and this stage ended. I did not recognize the elections held in Venezuela." (12:42)

• Stresses that change in Venezuela must now come from within through inclusive national dialogue (13:33).

7. The Climate Crisis and Call for a New US-Latin America Partnership

• Argues that US dependence on fossil fuels drives conflict in Latin America (06:20).

• Proposes “global democracy” and a joint move towards clean energy as the foundation for future relations:

  "If [the US] were to completely replace that 70% of its energy with clean energy, there would be no wars. There would be a much more democratic and peaceful relationship with the world and South America." (06:50) “What we need to do is leave [oil and coal] stored underground and move to a decarbonized economy ... The alternative is extinction through consumption.” (23:28)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On America’s Drift Toward Isolation:

  "Instead of a United States dominating the world…the imperial dream, it's a United States isolated from the world. ...It happened to Rome. And that path they have to decide.” — Gustavo Petro (21:57)

• On ICE Enforcement:

  “ICE operates the same way as the Nazi and Italian brigades, the fascists, persecuting and provoking people.” — Gustavo Petro (03:18, 21:57)

• On Record Seizures and Colombian Reforms:

  “Colombian intelligence participates in 63% of seizure operations. ...We've seized 2,800 tons [of cocaine]. This is the highest figure in world history.” — Gustavo Petro (09:36)

• On Personal Threats:

  “President Trump has also said to you personally to watch your back. ...Yes. But…Colombia's history shows how it has responded to large armies. Our defense isn't in barracks. It's in the mountains. The jungles.” — Gustavo Petro (09:08)

• On Need for Global Democracy and Climate Action:

  “A United States that is relevant in the world…is achieved through democratic dialogue and the construction of democratic rules in the world. ...We are on the verge of extinction if we move from climate crisis to collapse.” — Gustavo Petro (22:30)

Timeline of Key Segments

• [01:12–03:18] – Ione Wells introduces Petro, his policies, and current diplomatic context.
• [03:18–03:56] – Petro's criticism of ICE enforcement and US foreign policy.
• [04:04–05:33] – Petro describes the Trump call and roots of current US-Colombia tension.
• [06:03–07:33] – Analysis of America’s long-standing imperial attitude; fossil fuels as driver of intervention.
• [07:44–08:58] – Direct discussion of the US military threat.
• [09:08–10:54] – Responding to threats, the reality of violence in Colombia, record drug seizures.
• [11:06–14:21] – In-depth recounting of mediation failures in Venezuela.
• [16:01–17:14] – CIA, Pegasus spyware and foreign intelligence controversies.
• [17:36–19:33] – Response to personal narco-trafficking accusations; corruption in Colombia.
• [19:46–21:48] – Discussion of approach to narco-trafficking, successes, and challenges.
• [21:57–24:19] – Final reflections, critique of US isolationism, call for cooperation on democracy and the environment.

Episode Tone

The conversation is frank, urgent, and at times, defiant. Petro is both analytical and passionate, frequently referencing historical context, and intensely critical of what he views as imperial habits of the US while advocating for a transformative partnership based on environmental responsibility and respect for sovereignty.

For listeners seeking an up-to-the-minute, high-stakes perspective on shifting US-Latin American relations—and the future of democracy, security, and climate in the region—this episode cuts straight to the core issues.