Dr Tedros, WHO: Viruses are invisible enemy

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Interview (BBC World Service)

Episode: Dr Tedros, WHO: Viruses are invisible enemy
Date: June 14, 2026
Host: Justin Webb
Guest: Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, Director-General, World Health Organization

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Episode Overview

This episode features an insightful conversation with Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the head of the World Health Organization (WHO). Returning from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) amidst a rapidly spreading Ebola outbreak, Dr. Tedros addresses the challenges of fighting viruses in regions destabilized by conflict, mass displacement, and mistrust. He urgently calls for a global rebalancing of priorities—specifically, the need to invest more in health security and pandemic preparedness instead of disproportionately increasing defense budgets. Throughout, Dr. Tedros emphasizes the "invisible enemy" that viruses represent and warns against global complacency in the face of mounting health threats.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Situation in the DRC: Ebola Amid Conflict

• Ground Reality

  • Dr. Tedros had just returned from visiting Bunya town in the DRC where a new Ebola outbreak, caused by a rare virus species, is accelerating—now even crossing borders to Uganda.
  • Active conflict, community displacement, and a lack of trust in outside authorities have given the virus "a big head start" ([02:12], [06:14]).

• Community Engagement & Trust

  • Emphasizing the centrality of local trust, Dr. Tedros shared hope found in community leaders' willingness to combat misinformation if properly empowered:
    • “When community leaders are involved, I think they can change the tide.” ([06:25], Dr. Tedros)
  • Recovered patients are being given certificates, a practice Dr. Tedros believes boosts community morale.

• Obstacles in Disease Response

  • Displacement complicates contact tracing and service delivery, affecting both the local population and health workers.
  • Chronic humanitarian issues, food insecurity, and frequent attacks on healthcare further hinder the response ([08:30]).

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Defense vs. Health: Misaligned Global Priorities

• Imbalance in Spending

  • Dr. Tedros laments a worldwide trend: rapidly rising defense budgets alongside falling health investments, which makes nations collectively more vulnerable.
    • “Imagine, have you ever seen a war in recent memory that killed 20 million people? Why can't we come to our senses?” ([03:08], [13:40], Dr. Tedros)
  • Cites the COVID pandemic's death toll (~20 million) for perspective.

• Pandemic Preparedness

  • Current preparedness and investment levels are insufficient for future pandemics, especially if a novel airborne virus emerges:
    • “With the level of investment we have, God forbid if we have an airborne like flu virus... I think we are not ready for that.” ([20:49], Dr. Tedros)

• The “Invisible Enemy”

  • Calls viruses the “common enemy” that threat humanity regardless of politics or borders.
    • “Please don’t forget about the invisible enemy... a virus that could wreak havoc... It killed approximately now around 20 million people, the COVID pandemic.” ([11:37], Dr. Tedros)

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Conflict, Leadership, & the Health Crisis

• Linking Conflict and Health

  • Dr. Tedros ties the Ebola outbreak—and broader pandemics—to ongoing conflict and poor political leadership.
    • “Peace is the best medicine.” ([22:17], Dr. Tedros)
  • Conflict leads to displacement, attacks on healthcare, humanitarian dependence, and aggravated public health outcomes.

• Critique of Global Leadership

  • Highlights a lack of global leadership and tendency to resort to military “might” over political solutions.
    • “There is always a solution, a political solution to our problems... but I don’t see that. There is lack of leadership globally.” ([04:29], [22:17], Dr. Tedros)

• Call for Balanced Policy

  • Argues that security can be achieved without undermining health investment:
    • "You don’t need to undermine health security to invest in the other security... It’s a matter of finding a balance." ([25:08], Dr. Tedros)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Spending Priorities

  “So what I see is globally, globally there is more spending in defense and less spending in global health or in public health or in health security, which makes us vulnerable... The invisible enemy could be more impactful.”
  — Dr. Tedros ([03:08], [13:40])

• On Pandemic Threats

  “Have you ever seen a war in recent memory that killed 20 million people? … Viruses kill more people than any war in recent memory, and that's well documented and that's the truth.”
  — Dr. Tedros ([13:40])

• On Community Resilience

  “When community leaders are involved, I think they can change the tide... care saves lives, even without, by the way, treatment, the medical care they received.”
  — Dr. Tedros ([06:25])

• On Peace and Conflict

  “There is always a solution, a political solution to our problems... Peace is the best medicine.”
  — Dr. Tedros ([22:17])

• On Global Leadership

  “The most courageous choose peace. That's what I believe… It's a matter of more investment in political solutions. It's possible.”
  — Dr. Tedros ([25:08])

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Segment Timestamps

• Opening & Introduction: [01:40 - 03:08]
• Spending Priorities & The “Invisible Enemy”: [03:08 - 04:29], [13:36 - 15:49]
• On-the-Ground in DRC: Challenges, Hope, & Mistrust: [05:20 - 09:59]
• Aid Cuts & International Cooperation: [10:01 - 13:36]
• Global Risk & Preparedness: [20:43 - 22:17]
• Call to Political Leadership & Balance: [22:17 - 26:21]

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Conclusion

Dr. Tedros’s interview is a forthright appeal to global leaders and audiences: the gravest threats to humanity may not be the ones dominating headlines and public budgets, but rather those like Ebola and potential future pandemics which thrive on political distraction, underinvestment, and social mistrust. He urges a rebalancing—a courageous rededication to global health security, conflict resolution, and deeper investment in the collective resilience of communities worldwide.

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For more in-depth conversations with global changemakers, explore additional episodes of The Interview from BBC World Service.

Transcript

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[Justin Webb]

hello, I'm BBC presenter Justin Webb and this is the interview from the BBC World Service. The best conversations coming out of the BBC. People shaping our world from all over the world.

[Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus]

I want to get freedom. I like that. Freedom.

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[Justin Webb]

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We need a ceasefire.

[Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus]

We need healing, we need trust.

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[Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus]

This is a war. The first thing that we want is the war to end.

[Justin Webb]

For this interview I spoke to the head of the World Health Organization, Dr. Tedros Adnahom Ghebreyesas. He's just returned from the Democratic Republic of Congo where a rare species of the Ebola virus has been spreading rapidly. There have been increasing case numbers and cross border transmission to Uganda. He says Ebola had a big head start and that's partly because it's an area of conflict and mass displacement which creates an environment in which viruses can spread easily. It's also because of a limited testing capacity which meant this particular species wasn't detected at first. The response has now been ramped up with more testing and medicines, but transmission is still increasing. In this interview, Dr. Tedros Adnahom Ghebreyesas claims governments are focusing too much on defence spending. And he makes an impassioned plea for countries to allocate more to global health and preventing future pandemics.

[Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus]

So what I see is globally, globally there is more spending in defense and less spending in global health or in public health or in health security, which makes us vulnerable. So our leaders should understand that because the invisible enemy could be more impactful. Imagine, have you ever seen a war in recent memory that killed 20 million people? Why can't we come to our senses?

[Justin Webb]

He says his organization is making more efforts to engage with communities because there is currently a lot of mistrust, misinformation and suspicion of outside authorities. The Ebola virus was first discovered in 1976. There have been seven previous outbreaks. The largest outbreak took place just 12 years ago. Between 2014 and 2016 in West Africa. It killed more than a thousand people. The head of the WHO tells me that while the regional risk of this outbreak is high, there is a low chance of it being spread worldwide. But he argues that we've reached a position where we are not taking seriously the threats that are around the corner.

[Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus]

I'm really worried. It's not about viruses. Yes, of course my responsibility is viruses, you know, health, security. But I am worried about how we're handling even geopolitics because there is always a solution, a political solution to our problems, geopolitical problems. But I don't see that there is lack of leadership globally. And you can see the rise in conflict everywhere. And instead of having a political solution, our leaders are resorting into trying to resolve them through might.

[Justin Webb]

Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Dr. Tedros Adnahom Ghabraesus.

[Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus]

I think having first hand account of what's happening is very important. Of course, many people advise me not to travel because of the risks, not only Ebola, but because of the active armed conflict in the area. But that's what we do in who, whether there is active armed conflict or Ebola, we go to help people. So I was glad to be on the ground.

[Interviewer (BBC Journalist)]

You talked about the importance of community trust. Dr. Tedros. What did you see when it came to that trust? Because there are a lot of reports, aren't there? Well, more than reports. You can see that in some communities there is not the kind of trust that there needs to be.

[Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus]

Yeah, so I was, as I said, I was on the ground and talking to people, to community leaders, to members of the Bunya town. And I was actually hopeful about the future. But at the same time, I had serious concerns. The hope came from, you know, especially meeting the community leaders and saying to us that there is a lot of misinformation, as you rightly said, there is even fear in the community, but this is because of misinformation, and that if they could be equipped with the right information, if they could be trained, that they could talk to the community, have engagements with the community, and reverse that. So that's one of the things that gave me hope, because when community leaders are involved, I think they can change the tide. But at the same time, the other thing that gave me hope was around five people have recovered from Ebola. And in, you know, with the representative of the ministry of health, we gave them certificates, actually, that they recovered from Ebola. And I think that's very helpful to the community because with the right care, people can survive. So care saves lives, even without, by the way, treatment, the medical care they received. And that's why we encourage people to come forward as early as possible, report to health facilities, because if they do that, they will get the right care and they can recover or survive. So that's what gave me hope. But at the same time, there was a real concern. I was worried about many of the things I observed on the ground. There was active conflict. Even the governor didn't want me to stay overnight there because it was risky for me. And not only that, there is displacement, and people, you know, move. And it's very difficult to do contact tracing and isolating those who have, you know, some risks or contacts, because when they move, it's very difficult to do that. So the displacement is one of the problems. But with the displacement, by the way, the displacement not only affects the communities there, but it affects also the health workers, including, you know, the health workers also are displaced, and that affects the service. And then, of course, there is a chronic humanitarian problem because of the conflict, and many people are dependent on food aid. So these are the layers of complexity that, you know, affect our response on the ground. And that's what I thought, actually, were some of the concerns that may affect the response to this Ebola outbreak. And addressing those issues will be very important.

[Justin Webb]

You mentioned humanitarian aid.

[Interviewer (BBC Journalist)]

There have been cuts, of course, to the aid budgets, both the United States and the United Kingdom as well, and other countries as well.

[Justin Webb]

Is that having an impact?

[Interviewer (BBC Journalist)]

In other words, can you say with any degree of certainty that the cuts in aid have made this outbreak worse?

[Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus]

By the way, the first thing I would like to say is United States and United Kingdom are helping, we're working with them, collaborating with them, and they're already investing. And when I arrived in Kinshasa, I met Jenny Chapman, the minister, and we had a very good discussion. And I was very much impressed by the commitment of the government of the United Kingdom. And I had also contact with senior officials from the United States. And they promised to me that they will support, and they are already supporting, and they will increase their financial support. Of course, the funding cuts in 2025 was, was a challenge at the Munich Security Conference which I attended in 2000. In 2025, by the way, I saw, I witnessed that many countries, from high income countries, it's not about just the US and uk, but many high income countries have been announcing at the Munich Security Conference their increase in defense expenditure from 1% to 3%, from 3% to 5%. And I was so worried, as you may know. I was foreign minister myself and I approached some of the foreign ministers and I said to them, you know, what's happening? Why this significant increase in defense spending? And they said, oh, we have concerns. You know, there is this geopolitical change which is affecting many of our countries, the geopolitical tension. So we have to protect ourselves and we have to invest in defense. So that's why then I told them, please, please don't forget about the invisible enemy. And they said, what do you mean by that? And I said, the invisible enemy, like Covid, a virus that could wreak havoc, you know, it killed Approximately now around 20 million people, the COVID pandemic. So while investing on your defense, this is actually to kill humans. To kill humans. Please don't forget the common enemy that we have a virus that doesn't care about our borders, our politics, or about whatever excuses that we might have. We have to be also prepared for that. So while preparing for what you think is your threat, you have to also be prepared for a threat which is common to humanity.

[Interviewer (BBC Journalist)]

Do you think this should be a balance?

[Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus]

So what I see is globally, globally there is more spending in defense and less spending in global health or in public health or in health security, which makes us vulnerable. So our leaders should understand that because the invisible enemy could be more impactful. Imagine, have you ever seen a war in recent memory that killed 20 million people? Why can't we come to our senses? So that's what I would like to say. Actually, the investment in health security is so small compared to our spending in defense to kill each other. Actually, you know, in 2025, the expenditure in defense, in military expenditure reached US$2.7 trillion while the expenditure in health declined. Is that justifiable? I don't think so. While viruses kill more people than any war in recent memory, and that's well documented and that's the truth. If our leaders want to deny it, they can deny it. But that's the truth. My advice is they can have concerns in terms of their security, their borders. I understand. But they should know that more impactful is actually the unknown or the invisible enemy that can affect humans equally. And that should be taken seriously and we should really learn from our mistakes. I want our leaders to be serious on this.

[Justin Webb]

You're listening to the interview on the BBC World Service.

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[Justin Webb]

I've been talking to Dr. Tedros Adnahom Ghebreyesus who is head of the World Health Organization. He has recently been in the areas affected by the latest outbreak of Ebola. Ebola has been causing havoc, havoc that we haven't seen across the world and which he says we're not going to see across the world. But he says it is a very big problem in the region where the latest outbreak has been and potentially, of course, it could spread beyond that. This form of Ebola, this particular Ebola virus does not at the moment have any vaccine. And that's one of the things that he has addressed, is how to get local communities to do the things that need to be done in order to stop it spreading. And that is not easy for two reasons. Number one, he says because it's a war torn area and people are anyway distrustful and is not easy to keep track of, to monitor those who are going from one place to another. But the other thing is that people tend to react to Ebola by wanting in quite understandable ways to deal themselves with those who have succumbed to it. And one of the problems is that it's spread through bodily fluids. And one of the difficulties that he has faced is in persuading local people that they need to do what the local health authorities are telling them they have to do in order to stop the spread. And that is something that he is very keen, that the message gets across locally, but also regionally and potentially around the world as well, if this particular virus does ever escape. One of the other things that he's wanted to talk about, and he was very passionate about this, is that he believes in a wider sense the world is not just taking this Ebola virus not seriously enough, but is actually taking the threat of future viruses not seriously enough. And there is, he says, a real problem here. The world is spending an awful lot on defense spending. And it's something that here in Britain, but also right across Europe, the conversation is very much about at the moment how defence spending can be increased and what needs to be cut in order to pay. And what he suggests is what's being cut at the moment is world health spending. And that that is going to be something that turns out to be a terrible mistake anyway. Let us return now to my conversation with Dr. Tedros Adnahom Ghebreyesus.

[Interviewer (BBC Journalist)]

Do you think this ebola outbreak might spread worldwide?

[Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus]

I don't think so, because, you know, Ebola is transmitted through contacts. So the global risk is low, who has said it many times, the regional risk is high, but the global risk is low because of its nature. It's not airborne. But what I am saying is with the level of preparedness we have, with the level of investment we have, God forbid if we have an airborne like flu virus that could be a pandemic in just a few weeks, I think we are not ready for that. And our leaders are not ready for that because the investment is more biased towards killing each other rather than preparing ourselves to fight a shared, a common enemy like a virus.

[Interviewer (BBC Journalist)]

You sound, from what you are saying, genuinely worried about the attitude the whole world has, not just to Ebola, but more widely, as you've been saying to other potentially worldwide threats. Is that right, that you believe we have reached a position where we are not taking seriously again, the threats that might be around the corner?

[Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus]

Yeah, I'm really worried. It's not about viruses. Yes, of course, my responsibility is viruses, you know, health, security. But I am worried about how we're handling even geopolitics, because there is always a solution, a political solution to our problems, geopolitical problems. But I don't see that. There is lack of leadership globally. And you can see the rise in conflict everywhere. And instead of having a political solution, our leaders are resorting into trying to resolve them through might. And I don't think that kind of attitude is helpful. So that's what I'm saying. But that lack of peace, that lack of focus on peace because peace is the best medicine, is affecting everything. If you take for instance, Ituri province, the drc, it's the conflict which is affecting everything because of conflict, there is displacement. Because of conflict, there is attacks on health care. Because of conflict, there is no investment in the area. Because of conflict and lack of investment, there is hunger in the area. And because of conflict you can imagine, or a long list of evil in the region. That's why we always say in who, by the way, peace is the best medicine. So unless our leaders are serious to address their political problems or differences through political solutions, and there is war and there is conflict, it affects everything. It affects health, it affects the economy, it affects everything. So that's what I'm saying. So we have to be serious about, about peace. We have to be serious about cooperation. We have to be serious about political solutions. We have to be serious about global leadership.

[Interviewer (BBC Journalist)]

We heard from the chief of the Defence Staff in the UK and I think if he were addressing you directly now, he would say yes, he is serious about peace. But the only way to guarantee peace at the moment is given the threat from Russia is a big increase in military spending. In other words, what you are advocating, which is a greater spending on other things, including health, just is not feasible in the world we live in.

[Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus]

I think you can strike a balance and I think if people are willing to invest in finding a political solution, it can happen the most courageous choose peace. That's what I believe. So I'm not undermining the concerns of some people. But what I'm saying is one can strike a balance, so you don't need to undermine health security to invest in, you know, the other security. But at the same time, if you're committed to a political solution, there is a possibility to find a pause to find a solution. So that's what I'm saying. So it's a matter of finding a balance and it's a matter of more investment in political solutions. It's possible.

[Justin Webb]

Thank you for listening to the interview. You'll find more in depth conversations on the interview wherever you get your BBC podcasts, including episodes with the president of the International Rescue Committee, David Miliband, performer Sudan leader Aisha Musa, and the writer Maggie o'.

[Interviewer (BBC Journalist)]

Farrell.

[Justin Webb]

Until the next time. Bye for now.

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