The Interview (BBC World Service)

Episode: Hassan Sheikh Mohamud, President of Somalia: Somalia has a serious security challenge
Date: September 28, 2025
Host: Paul Njie
Guest: Hassan Sheikh Mohamud, President of Somalia
Location: Villa Somalia, Mogadishu

Episode Summary

Main Theme

This episode features a rare, in-depth conversation with Hassan Sheikh Mohamud, President of Somalia. The discussion revolves around Somalia’s complex security environment, specifically the ongoing fight against Al Shabaab and ISIS, diplomatic tensions with Ethiopia, issues of national unity concerning Somaliland, and the nation’s democratic and economic trajectory. President Mohamud addresses both external perceptions and internal realities, offering his blueprint for peace and statehood.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Security Situation: The Fight Against Al Shabaab and ISIS

• Somalia’s Security Evolution (04:49)
  • President Mohamud outlines the 35-year history of security challenges, including civil war, fragile transitional governments, and the current focus on terrorism.
  • He identifies Al Shabaab and ISIS as the main threats now, claiming “most of the towns and cities have been liberated from Al Shabaab,” though "they still operate in rural areas" and remain a “serious challenge.”
• Three-Pronged Counter-Terror Strategy (07:34)
  • Military: Continuing the fight on the ground.
  • Ideological: Mobilizing religious scholars and launching a government TV channel to counter extremist propaganda.
  • Financial: Shutting down accounts and disrupting Al Shabaab’s financial operations.
  • He insists these strategies have reduced terrorist incidents in Mogadishu:
    “In the month of August, there was not one single incident of death in Mogadishu. So it's a very good indicator.” (06:44)
• Personal Threats and Resilience (08:38)
  • Survived five assassination attempts by Al Shabaab:
    “The attack was really serious ... but I’m expecting more and more.”
    On living with threat:
    “It’s not rational logic not to expect I would be free from any risk from the war. ... I will not be [a] prisoner for the fear.” (09:09)

2. International Relations & The "Terrorist Safe Haven" Label

• Disputing U.S. Travel Ban Justifications (09:39)
  • President Mohamud pushes back against the U.S. designation of Somalia as a “terrorist safe haven,” arguing that expansion of government authority proves otherwise:
    “A safe haven of a terrorist is where the terrorist is not challenged.”
  • Expresses disappointment over lack of consultation from the U.S. government and frames the ban as “related to politics.”
• UN Security Council Membership (11:06)
  • Celebrates Somalia’s seat as proof of national progress and international legitimacy:
    “That itself is a proof that Somalia is defeating Al Shabaab.”

3. Regional Tensions: Ethiopia, Egypt, and Proxy Wars

• Welcoming Egyptian Troops Amid Ethiopia-Egypt Rift (12:10)
  • Affirms neutrality in Ethiopia-Egypt disputes and rejects speculation that Somalia is becoming a "proxy theater":
    “Somalia is at peace with itself and at peace with the rest of the world. ... We are neutral. We don’t want any conflict with any other country.”
• Egyptian Forces Not a Provocation (13:29)
  • Denies reports that Egyptian troops are being stationed near the Ethiopian border, clarifying,
    “Egypt is just manning the sector that our brothers from Burundi was manning ... no Egyptian forces are going anywhere closer to the Ethiopian border.”
• Guaranteeing No Ethiopia-Egypt Conflict (14:11)
  • “There is no even proximity of the two troops at all. ... We will never allow proxy wars ... We are fed up of war.”

4. Somalia-Ethiopia Bilateral Relations & Port Access

• Post-Ankara Agreements (16:14)
  • Describes relationship with Ethiopia as improved after Turkey-mediated negotiations, highlighting necessity of collaboration for border security.
• Ethiopia and Sea Access (17:25)
  • Open to Ethiopia using Somali ports but stresses terms must be “commercial, with agreements, conditions, financial setups.”
  • On Ethiopia creating its own port (“the Somaliland deal”):
    “Everything is possible if we agree and see a mutual interest. ... But now we are discussing ... commercial access.”

5. Somaliland Secession and International Recognition

• Position on Somaliland (19:10)
  • Reiterates unwavering opposition to secession, citing international law and African Union charter:
    “Somaliland is part of Somalia ... But the unity of Somalia is sacrosanct.”
  • Will not accept U.S. (or any) recognition of Somaliland:
    “We will never accept that recognition. And the whole world will not accept it ... That will not happen.” (21:20)
• Possible Concessions (20:33)
  • Open to accommodating grievances “other than secession” to preserve unity.

6. Aid Cuts, Recovery & Electoral Reform

• Impact of U.S. Aid Cuts (21:51)
  • Admits negative effects but states:
    “We are talking with the United States government to make some review ... the Somali government is trying its best to address those humanitarian aid challenges.”
• Post-Debt Relief Development (23:30)
  • Lists expanded services and infrastructure as proof debt relief is helping, despite criticism that public doesn’t feel benefits yet.
• Upcoming Elections & Commitment to Democracy (24:05)
  • Plans for one-person-one-vote for the first time in 57 years:
    “If that succeeds and the Somali people elect someone else, I don’t have any problem to hand over peacefully.”
• Willingness to Accept Election Defeat (24:05)
  • References peaceful transfer of power in his prior term.
• Constitutional Reform (25:14)
  • Dismisses claims it's a power grab, arguing status quo is unsustainable:
    “No, no, no, no. That's a wrong system. ... Somalia has to move further towards democracy.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Somaliland is our dear brothers and sisters. We respect them, we respect their views. But the unity of Somalia is sacrosanct.” – Hassan Sheikh Mohamud (03:37)
• “Al Shabaab is weak, but compared to their past, but still they are a very serious challenge to the security of the country.” (05:58)
• “I will not be [a] prisoner for the fear, being afraid of Al Shabaab.” (09:09)
• “We have a mutual interest on fight against the terrorists and we are working together.” – on Ethiopia-Somalia collaboration (17:18)
• “We will never accept that recognition. And the whole world will not accept it. The African Union will not accept it. ... That will not happen.” – on U.S. recognition of Somaliland (21:20)
• “If that succeeds and the Somali people elect someone else, I don’t have any problem to hand over peacefully.” (24:16)
• “Somalia has to move further towards democracy.” (25:14)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Somalia’s security history & current challenges: 04:49–06:44
• Counterterrorism strategy explained: 07:34–08:38
• Assassination attempts & presidential risks: 08:38–09:39
• Response to U.S. “terrorist safe haven” designation: 09:39–10:23
• Somalia’s UN Security Council membership: 11:06–11:46
• Ethiopia-Egypt-Somalia regional dynamics: 12:10–14:11
• Stance on Somaliland's independence: 19:10–21:49
• US aid cuts and impact: 21:51–22:41
• Debt relief and development: 23:30–23:54
• Election plans and democratic reform: 24:05–25:14

Tone & Delivery

President Mohamud remains cordial, resolute, and pragmatic. Despite tough questioning, he emphasizes unity, progress, and self-determination, frequently referencing international law, security priorities, and democratic principles. His tone is both diplomatically cautious and firmly assertive regarding Somalia’s sovereignty and future.