John Kerry: Countries failing to deal with climate change

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Interview – John Kerry: Countries Failing to Deal with Climate Change

Host: Wahiga Mwaura (BBC World Service)
Guest: John Kerry, former US Secretary of State and US Special Presidential Envoy for Climate
Date: June 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid and wide-ranging conversation with former US Secretary of State John Kerry, held at the Our Oceans Conference in Mombasa, Kenya. The discussion revolves around the global response to climate change—especially the protection of the world’s oceans and Africa’s growing leadership in this area. Kerry also addresses the shortcomings of developed nations in fulfilling climate commitments, the socio-economic potential of the blue economy for Africa, the consequences of war on climate goals, and reflections on recent Middle East diplomacy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Importance & Impact of the Our Oceans Conference

• The 2026 event is the first time the conference has been held in Africa, marking recognition of the continent's vital stakes in ocean health and climate solutions.
• Commitments from the event totaled $6.4 billion, including funding for sustainable fisheries, climate resilience, and the blue economy.
• Notable achievement: A collective aim to protect at least 30% of the world’s ocean by 2030.

“Leadership, innovation, determination. Because while Africa has contributed the least of any part of the world to this crisis, it is increasingly now helping to lead the world’s response.”
— John Kerry [02:57]

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2. The Global Threat of Marine Pollution, Plastics, and Piracy

• Kerry stresses the grave threat of plastics not only to ocean health but to entire food chains and human welfare.
• Microplastics appear in marine life and are increasingly found in humans due to seafood consumption.
• Illegal, unreported, and unregulated (“pirate”) fishing remains a major challenge; 90 nations have joined a groundbreaking treaty to address this.

“It's an enormous threat, not just to the ocean, but to human beings… the plastic situation is a killer. It's a killer for seabirds, for sea life, and it's drowning the ocean in many respects.”
— John Kerry [05:09]

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3. Are International Conferences Effective?

• Kerry argues conferences like Our Oceans aren’t just “talk”—they have delivered real-world results, such as $169 billion pledged since inception, with $26 billion already delivered.
• Over 500 organizations across 96 countries are advancing solutions as a result of conference frameworks.

“This process has actually provided a platform for people to be able to come together and assert the law.”
— John Kerry [06:08]

• Africa is particularly vulnerable: 17 out of 20 countries most affected by the climate crisis are African, with 60% of the continent’s population under age 25.

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4. The Blue Economy and Africa’s Future

• The ‘blue economy’ encompasses not only direct ocean jobs (fishing, shipping) but all related supply chains, including port operations, shipbuilding, restaurants, and retail.
• Growing from $300 billion to a projected $400+ billion and expanding job opportunities (currently ~50 million jobs, soon to reach 55 million).

“There are significant indicators that maybe $300 billion… for Africa, which could go up to $400 and some billion as people are hired and as the job market grows.”
— John Kerry [08:55]

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5. El Niño, Adaptation, and Climate Resilience

• Scientists are forecasting a powerful El Niño, with direct impacts on weather and food security.
• Global adaptation is lagging, especially in developing resilience infrastructure:

“We haven’t done the things we need to do… GDP loss for Africa alone just because of those extreme weather events is somewhere between 2% and 5% a year."
— John Kerry [10:34]

• The priority: Set policy to adapt and build infrastructure, which simultaneously generates jobs.

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6. Disappointment with Fading Climate Ambition

• Kerry repeatedly raises concern about the global backslide on climate action, partially due to politicization and “weaponization” of climate language.

“Certain words that deal with climate have been weaponized. I think it's a very, very short sighted, myopic view of the world for people to just deny the science and procrastinate…”
— John Kerry [03:39, 12:16]

• Notes the US’s influential role on the world stage and expresses disappointment over the current lack of leadership at forums such as the G7.

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7. Energy Transition & Market Forces

• Despite some political opposition, particularly during the Trump administration, the market is “deciding” on renewables.
• Solar and wind are now the cheapest energy sources—Texas, for example, leads the nation in this transition.

“Anybody in the business will tell you that it is cheaper now to deploy wind and solar… Texas, which obviously is the home of oil and gas, is the largest deployer of wind and solar in the United States.”
— John Kerry [13:40]

• Transformation is happening with advances in geothermal, better batteries, and drastically lowered solar costs.

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8. Impact of War on Climate Progress

• Recent agreements between the US and Iran prompt reflection on the connection between war, diplomacy, and climate action.
• War exacerbates environmental destruction—not just humanitarian.

“War with bombs going off… release gases, release CO2 in heightened amounts. The direct impact on environment of destruction of oil and gas facilities… has a profound impact on the atmosphere, on climate and on life itself.”
— John Kerry [19:58]

• On diplomacy: Kerry believes previous deals with Iran averted greater crisis and that renewed agreements are more “ceasefires” than genuine “peace.”

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9. Advice to African Leaders and Nations

• Kerry’s core recommendation: Demand leadership that embraces renewables and sustainability—not out of altruism, but for prosperity and development.

“The most important thing is for people everywhere in Africa to demand that their leadership is pushing in the direction of deploying renewables... There’s a great amount of job growth if this effort to spread the wealth of energy will reach all parts of Africa.”
— John Kerry [23:51]

• Focus should be on practical, financeable business deals—not waiting for large-scale international aid.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Africa’s climate role: “While Africa has contributed the least… it is increasingly now helping to lead the world’s response.” [02:57]
• On global retreat from climate targets: “Certain words that deal with climate have been weaponized… just deny the science and procrastinate.” [03:39, 12:16]
• On El Niño and adaptation: “GDP loss for Africa alone just because of those extreme weather events is somewhere between 2% and 5% a year.” [10:34]
• On market forces: “The marketplace has decided the energy transition is taking place and will take place, it must take place.” [13:40]
• On peace & war: “We’ve learned through centuries that war is the failure of diplomacy and we ought to do better diplomacy in order to avoid it if we can.” [19:58]

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Important Timestamps

• 02:57 – Kerry on Africa’s growing climate leadership
• 03:39 – Concerns about global climate action retreat
• 05:09 – The threat of plastics in the oceans
• 06:08 – The positive impact of the Our Oceans Conference
• 08:55 – Blue economy and job creation in Africa
• 10:34 – El Niño, adaptation needs, and climate resilience
• 12:16 – On the politicization and stalling of climate action
• 13:40 – Market success of renewable energy
• 19:58 – War’s environmental and diplomatic consequences
• 23:51 – Advice to African nations for ocean and climate action

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

John Kerry’s tone throughout the interview is earnest, urgent, and pragmatic. He’s adamant about the science and economics behind climate change, direct about political failures, and hopeful about Africa’s emerging role on the global stage. The conversation offers both a sobering look at unrealized ambition and a call for determined, practical action—especially for young, future-facing populations across Africa.

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Transcript

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[Wahiga Mwaura]

Hello, I'm Wahiga Mwaura, the BBC's presenter for Focus on Africa. And this is the interview from the BBC World Service. The best conversations coming out of the BBC. People shaping our world from all over the world.

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[John Kerry]

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[Wahiga Mwaura]

But for this interview, I met former US Secretary of State John Kerry, who was in Kenya for the Our Oceans Conference, an annual international conference aimed at finding ways to protect the ocean. Well, John Kerry launched the conference back in 2014 when he was the US Secretary of State. This year's event was the first time it was held in an African country. Global leaders announced $6.4 billion for ocean action, which includes sustainable fisheries, climate resilience and the blue economy. There is also a commitment to protecting at least 30% of the ocean by 2030. However, some are concerned that progress is not keeping pace with what is needed. Speaking to delegates at the conference, John Kerry called on governments to step up efforts to protect the world's oceans. But recognize the role that Africa is playing.

[John Kerry]

And I've seen something else all around the world and you're seeing it right here today in this meeting. Leadership, innovation, determination. Because while Africa has contributed the least of any part of the world to this crisis, it is increasingly now helping to lead the world's response.

[Wahiga Mwaura]

Kerry also served as the first US special presidential envoy for climate from 2021 to 2024 and has since continued to work in this area. He tells me that he's concerned by the way governments around the world are failing to tackle climate change.

[John Kerry]

Well, I'm worried, you know, not just about the United States. There are many parts of the world where people have retreated slightly to some degree. Certain words that deal with climate have been weaponized. I think it's a very, very short sighted, myopic view of the world for people to sort of just deny the science and procrastinate and not do the things that we've been warned we need to do.

[Wahiga Mwaura]

When I spoke to John Kerry, the US and Iran had just agreed on a deal aimed at ending the conflict between the two countries. Kerry, who helped negotiate a nuclear deal with Iran when he was President Barack Obama's Secretary of State, tells me that this war shouldn't have started in the first place.

[John Kerry]

This war was completely unnecessary. It was a war of choice. It was engaged in after the President and others who are around. The President met with the Prime Minister of Israel who came to Washington to ask Barack Obama to bomb. And Barack Obama said no, who came to Washington and asked President Biden to bomb. And President Biden said no. And Donald Trump said, sounds good to me.

[Wahiga Mwaura]

Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with John Kerry. In a conversation I recorded earlier this

[Interviewer]

month, how serious would you term the threat of marine pollution today, particularly from plastics to the global oceans?

[John Kerry]

It's an enormous threat, not just to the ocean, but to human beings. We see instances of fish in various parts of the world that are taking microplastics into their bodies. It's passed on to us when we eat. Human beings are now unwillfully eating very significant amounts of heavy metals that come from the ocean. But the plastic situation is a killer. It's a killer for seabirds, for sea life, and it's drowning the ocean in many respects.

[Interviewer]

So a conference like the one you're attending is supposed to provide solutions to this. But how possible do you think this is at a time when, you know, we have some figures here that suggest that developed countries have not met a target to deliver $40 billion to help poorer nations adapt to climate change, amongst other challenges. Are conferences like these really making a difference?

[John Kerry]

Yes, they are. At least this conference is making a difference. The our oceans conference began when I was Secretary of state in 2014, and we started this process. This is now the 11th meeting. Covid knocked us out of one cycle. But in the course of these meetings, literally $169 billion has been pledged for certain new efforts and initiatives to address some of the Ocean challenges. About 26 billion of that has already been delivered. So the reality is it's not just talk, it's happening. There are 500 organizations in some 96 countries that are delivering help and assistance frameworks. The world came together to pass the biodiversity beyond national jurisdiction. And what's happened is we've had an amazing response on a global basis to countries that are now setting aside areas of their fisheries in order to be able to guarantee that they are not plundered and that legal fishing is taking place. There's a terrible problem on a global basis with pirate fishing that takes place without any regard for the fishing stocks or for the long term future. So I think, you know, this process is actually provided a platform for people to be able to come together and assert the law. And in the last year, some 90 nations have now joined, signed on to and given life to this treaty. It is ratified, it is now the law globally. And it's having an impact on how people are addressing ocean challenges. So I think this is producing a great deal. You know, 17. 17 of the 20 most affected countries in the world to climate crisis are in Africa. And Africa is a young nation. 60% of the population of Africa is under the age of 25. And they are going to be the jobs of the future. Those are the people who are going to be doing the work and growing as the marketplace grows for them. So it's really a moment of great transformation with huge possibilities for protection of the oceans, which is critical to life on the planet.

[Interviewer]

Mr. Kerry, one of the hopes for those who are seeking to protect the oceans is to grow the blue economy. It's a big talking point on the African continent, but one of the aims is to ensure sustainable jobs for an estimated 600 million Africans, mostly young people who rely on ocean resources for their livelihoods. Are you able to give us specific, tangible efforts that are being made on this front?

[John Kerry]

Well, getting jobs for young people in Africa is a focus of every government on the continent. And right now we're seeing an enormous number of people taking part in what's called the blue economy. The Blue economy is obviously that economy which is part of the oceans, but also part of all the linkages, shipbuilding, propulsion systems, fuel, stocking those ships in various ports around the world, fixing those ships when they need to be fixed. There's a huge economy there. And in addition, we're seeing an enormous number of jobs, you know, in, in communities as a consequence. I mean, it's not just on the ocean that the blue economy plays out. Restaurants, fish eating. I mean, it's a huge part of the overall global economy. And there are significant indicators that maybe 300 billion, I guess, for Africa, which will go up or could go up to 400 and some billion as people are hired and as the job market grows, some additional about 50 million jobs currently, and they figure it'll be around 55 million or higher within a short span of time.

[Interviewer]

Mr. Kerry, scientists are warning that in the coming months we could see a resurgence of the El Nino phenomenon. This is when the oceans are warmed up, which obviously is translated to weather effects on land. Is the world ready at this moment for extreme weather and record temperatures? What's your reading of this?

[John Kerry]

Well, we haven't done the things we need to do, which scientists have told us and other policy planners have told us we need to do, which is build resilience, we need to adapt. And that means you have to put a certain amount of effort into infrastructure that is going to help protect communities when you get those extreme weather events. But yes, there has been a massive loss of gdp. Many people calculate that the GDP loss for Africa alone just because of those extreme weather events is somewhere between 2% and 5% a year. That drop in global, in your GDP that you have to suffer because you're not doing the things that you could be doing, which themselves, if you did them, would provide people good solid jobs. So it's a question of setting priorities, I think. Leaders in Africa. President Ruto of Kenya is hosting this conference. He hosted a conference on the climate impact on Africa just a couple of years ago. It was very well attended and I think very substantive. So I think there's a genuine effort by many leaders. There are a lot of countries here, think there are about 55 countries represented. Not every country in the world obviously is an ocean coastal country, but 55 nations here with official delegations from all of them, all focused on how to do a better job of preparing for the future and of doing the things we need to do in order to protect citizens in all of our countries.

[Interviewer]

As a former US Secretary of State, are you worried that the United States and some of its allies are no longer as keen on meeting climate targets as they were in the past.

[John Kerry]

Well, I'm worried, you know, not just about the United States. There are many parts of the world where people have retreated slightly to some degree. Certain words that deal with climate have been weaponized. I think it's a very, very short sighted, myopic view of the world for people to sort of just deny the science and procrastinate and not do the things that we've been warned we need to do. And you'd think that from the things that are happening all around the planet, you know, the fires, the mudslides, the extreme hurricanes, the extreme tornadoes, the warming of the ocean in some parts of the world, just a year ago was 101 degrees Fahrenheit in the ocean. And we're seeing massive shift of fish stocks and of a deterioration in the ability of certain flora and fauna of the ocean to be able to grow where they've grown for many centuries.

[Interviewer]

I mean, Secretary, I ask you this because the US does set the tone in many ways for the world's agenda. The G7 meeting is on right now. I haven't seen anything yet on the agenda in regards to climate action. Again, does that concern. If the US Was more forthright about climate action at this time, do you think we'd be having a difference? And President Trump, to be specific.

[John Kerry]

I think of course we would. There is no question. For whatever reasons, President Trump has decided to assault offshore wind. And you know, anybody in the business will tell you that it is cheaper now to deploy wind and solar together in order to deal with the challenges of grids and of providing people with sustainable firm energy, as we call it. Texas is the fastest growing deployer. Texas, which obviously is the home of oil and gas, is the largest deployer of wind and solar in the United States. And they're not doing it as a favor. They're not doing it because they want to be politically correct, particularly not the people in the oil and gas industry. But they're doing it because it's the best way for them to provide energy through their grid. And it's also the most, it's, it's also balancing their delivery of energy in a way that allows them to lower the price for people and also using storage, be able to guarantee them they'll have energy available to them. So I think you're seeing the marketplace make its own set of decisions. The marketplace has decided the energy transition is taking place and will take place, it must take place. And that Energy transition is producing enormous amounts of new companies, new ideas, new technologies which are going to facilitate this transition. And we're seeing it all over the world in things like geothermal, enhanced geothermal in storage and batteries, better batteries in solar panels that now have reduced the cost of solar to almost nothing. I mean, there's an incredible transformation taking place and people who ignore it are really doing so at their own financial risk.

[Glenn Washington]

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[Wahiga Mwaura]

you're listening to the interview from the BBC World Service.

[Glenn Washington]

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[Wahiga Mwaura]

I recorded this interview with John Kerry in mid June whilst he was attending the Our Ocean Conference at Kenya's coastal town of Mombasa and just ahead of the signing of a Memorandum of understanding which outlined a series of steps to end the war between the United States, Israel and Iran. Now, we'd originally invited him to talk about ocean protection, an issue that's especially important for many African countries with significant coastlines and but we were also keen to get his thoughts on the situation in the Middle East. Now this is the first time the Our Ocean Conference was held in an African country, which is important because many African countries have a significant part of their population relying on the ocean for jobs, food, and trade, whilst also dealing with the effects of climate change. The conference led to more than 320 commitments worth $6.4 billion from governments, businesses and other organizations. One of the main outcomes was the Mombasa declaration signed by 15 countries, which aims to improve transparency in fishing and crack down on illegal fishing. Kenya's President William Ruto also called for more global political will and action in protecting oceans and translating conservation promises into reality. While I was also keen to get John Kerry's perspectives on whether the world was ready for extreme weather conditions such as the looming super El Nino, which scientists say could threaten global food supplies, Kerry was frank that as the world drags its feet on adaptation, especially developed countries, then the Global south would continue to bear the brunt or burden of climate change. Now, I must confess it took some persistence to secure this interview because Kerry had a packed schedule at the conference, moving between meetings and discussions with various leaders. When we finally sat down, he was generous with his time and willing to discuss both climate issues and international diplomacy. Given his role in negotiating the Iran nuclear deal while serving as Secretary of State, he offered a unique perspective on the situation between Washington and Tehran. Okay, let's return to my conversation with J. John Kerry.

[Interviewer]

You join us at an interesting time. As I mentioned, G7 is happening this. A day or two from now, we expect a U. S. Iran deal to be signed. At least that's what we are being told. What impact do wars and conflicts, in your view have on climate action?

[John Kerry]

Well, wars are. Our wars are first of all horrendous for human beings and for people. And I think we've learned through centuries that war is the failure of diplomacy and we ought to do better diplomacy in order to avoid it if we can. But I think it's very, very clear that war with bombs going off that destroy facilities, destroy homes, release gases, release CO2 and heightened amounts, I mean, the direct impact on environment of destruction of oil and gas facilities, for instance, just has a profound impact on the atmosphere, on climate and on life itself.

[Interviewer]

I mean, when you hear of a peace deal being signed on Friday, in your view, you know, when you think about that and you sat there as the Secretary of State and I believe you helped broke our previous deal, what do you think could have been done differently in this administration regarding this situation in Iran?

[John Kerry]

Well, first of all, it's not a peace agreement. Let's be very, very clear. It's an agreement which fairly is going to codify. You know, it's going to crystallize a couple of things. One of which how the Straits of Hormuz will work. But just, you know, guess what? The Straits of Hormuz were not an issue prior to Donald Trump tearing up the agreement. And the fact is, no one until now has ever, you know, taken control of it in a way that works adversely for the rest of the world. Moreover, the real challenge here is about the nuclear weapon. Now, Iran says they're not going to create a nuclear weapon, but they said that to us. I led. I had the privilege of leading those negotiations. I spent weeks in Vienna sitting there, negotiating with the Iranians. And I can tell you right now that getting the agreement that Trump wants is going to be extremely complicated and difficult. And it's not. You know, they will say that we don't plan to make a nuclear weapon. Okay, fine. But that's what they've always said. And the fact is that unless you can prevent them from cheating and have adequate inspection to be able to guarantee it, it's a meaningless statement. So we have a long way to go to actually reach what you would call peace. This is more of a sort of a kind of ceasefire and an agreement to try, try to agree. That's basically what you've got.

[Interviewer]

Mr. Kerry, one of the things I'm sure you'll hear at the Oceans Conference from African delegates is how energy costs on the continent have gone up. A lot of them are tying it to the situation on the Strait of Hormuz. Was this war necessary in the first place, from your perspective?

[John Kerry]

No. This war was completely unnecessary. It was a war of choice. It was engaged in after the President and. And others who are around. The President met with the Prime Minister of Israel, who came to Washington to ask Barack Obama to bomb, and Barack Obama said no. Who came to Washington and asked President Biden to bomb, and President Biden said no, and Donald Trump said, sounds good to me. So we're where we are today because the President did not pursue diplomacy, I am told. I don't know this for a fact, but I am told that the deal that was put on the table just prior to the President deciding to go to war was actually a pretty good beginning place for an agreement. And I think, you know, the world needs to see what was, in fact, really on the table at that moment in time.

[Interviewer]

Maybe my last word for you in this. What should African countries do to get real value out of the conference you're attending there to, if you had a word of advice for African nations, what should they rally or push for the most or how to do it?

[John Kerry]

I think the most important thing is for people everywhere in Africa to demand that their leadership is pushing in the direction of deploying renewables, bringing them energy, which is not going to hurt them, but it's going to help them with sustainability at its core. I think that there's a great amount of job growth if this effort to spread the wealth of energy will reach all parts of Africa. There are many places where Africa has 40, 50% electricity penetration, but you get away from those centers of living, obviously in this great absence of energy, of electricity. So I think there's a lot more the world can do to work with Africa. Regarding that, I think the leaders in Africa will be increasingly, as they are now focused on these alternative types of energy which don't leave lasting negative impacts like emissions that heat the earth and create the other problems that come with the climate crisis. I find that African leadership is really tuned in. They're very, very focused on this particular choice type of energy and, and I think with good efforts. But we're not talking, by the way, about, you know, major finance mechanisms and programs. We're talking about working at the basics of how you put together business deals that will actually deliver energy that will be not overly expensive and available to the people who want it.

[Wahiga Mwaura]

Thank you for listening to the interview. For more compelling conversations, search for the interview. Wherever you get your BBC podcasts, you'll find episodes from one of Africa's youngest billionaires, Mohammed Doogee, former Sudanese leader Ayesha Moussa, and Sierra Leone's first lady, Fatma Biyo, plus many others. Until next time, it's bye for now.

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