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The Interview
José Andrés, chef and humanitarian: Food is a human right
00:22:55
Caitriona Perry speaks to José Andrés, world-renowned chef and humanitarian
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- [00:00]
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- [01:06]
BBC Presenter Katrina Perry
hello, I'm BBC chief presenter Katrina Perry and this is the interview from the BBC World Service. The best conversations coming out of the BBC People shaping our world from all over the world.
- [01:20]
Chef Jose Andres
If you're not a little bit afraid, then you're not paying attention. We have never seen a people so united.
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BBC Interviewer
Do not make that boat crossing. Do not make that journey.
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Weight Watchers Advertiser
Being born in America, feeling American, but having people treat me like I'm not.
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Chef Jose Andres
We're more popular than populism.
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BBC Presenter Katrina Perry
For this interview, I met Chef Jose Andres at his home just outside Washington, dc. Jose Andres was born in Spain and trained as a chef before moving to the United States, where he helped popularize Spanish cuisine and built a global restaurant empire. He later founded World Central Kitchen, an organization that has transformed the way humanitarian aid responds to crisis, delivering meals in war zones after natural disasters and in communities where hunger is a daily reality. World Central Kitchen has now reached what he describes as the bittersweet milestone of delivering 1 million meals a day in Gaza. Jose Andres reflects on food power and why feeding people is inseparable from dignity and justice.
- [02:31]
Chef Jose Andres
Food is a human right, a human right that should be supported by everybody. That no children should go bad, hungry even less in a conflict. And so yes, food has been used as a weapon of war, as a way of punishment, and this should not be allowed by any civilized, democratic country. Hopefully will never, ever happen again. But it's hard to see with the lack of leadership we see right now in the world.
- [03:02]
BBC Presenter Katrina Perry
Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Jose Andres.
- [03:07]
Chef Jose Andres
My mother, my father, they were nurses. I still remember my mom taking me as a very young kid to Red Cross to learn how to save somebody from a heart attack and the Hemlich maneuver. So like all of us, you know, we learned how to be of service beyond our duties. I became a cook very young. I love cooking. I cook all the time in the restaurant, other restaurant. Very quickly I learned that the same talent, the talent I have to feed a few is a talent that put in the right place, is the same talent to feed the many. And I was 23 when I joined a small organization, but very powerful, One DC Central Kitchen, founded by a man called Robert Egger, who began feeding homeless in Washington D.C. using food that was unused in hotels and restaurants, taking homeless out of the street, training them to be cooks. That lesson of the power of food is what got me very interested into what I can do if there is an emergency. And I kind of realized that where there is need of food and water in an emergency, who do you think is the best people that will be very resourceful in adapting to the situation and knowing where food, restaurants, kitchens may be to feed the hungry. So cooks in that we have a talent. Chefs, we have a talent. And guess what? It's an endless network around the world of millions of restaurants and, and chefs and restaurant people willing to do it. So this is where it began. Haiti, 2010, the earthquake. I went to Haiti, to the earthquake, to Port au Prince, to learn. I began feeding in some camps. But very quickly I saw that the only thing you had to do to feed people today after an emergency was to arrive, find the fire, find the people, find the food and start cooking. And that way, one plate at a time, you could end serving hundreds of thousands of millions of meals a day in difficult parts of the world. This is very much the story of how World Central Kitchen came to be.
- [05:18]
BBC Interviewer
So if we look at one place where you have a big operation at the moment is Gaza. You're about to get to the place where you're feeding or making 1 million meals per day. How do you run an operation in such difficult situation?
- [05:32]
Chef Jose Andres
Well, to get to the 1 million meal, we had to start with the first meal. We began arriving with one kitchen next to a local organization called Anera that had a long experience in Gaza. And we arrived, we began making few thousand meals a day. And from there we kept increasing a lot of infrastructure has to happen from the very beginning. We had a very big warehouse in Cairo, then we had another big warehouse in Amman because we had to be helping from both places. And Slowly but surely, we began learning the systems, the rules of the game that we don't create. I wish I could create them. But we follow whatever rules were thrown at us. And we began sending trucks, constant 20, 30, 40, 50 trucks a day, until we are able to have enough food in the warehouses we have inside and enough kitchens and, and more important, enough people. At the end is Palestinians feeding Palestinians. It's non Palestinians in our organization. But who is running this operation is amazing. Palestinians doing God's work. So the logistics behind are, quite frankly, very complicated. But what we do is to make sure that we solve the issues we face. Learning the system and in the process is how we are able to support our teams inside Gaza, reaching more than 1 million meals per day.
- [06:55]
BBC Interviewer
But how are you getting that food in? Because we've heard from other humanitarian organizations about the terrible difficulties they have getting supplies across.
- [07:04]
Chef Jose Andres
Use not only food, everything else the Palestinian people need today. Water, filtration systems. We need more tents. My God, we need tens of thousands of tents. The people of Palestine are going through a very cold winter, one of the coldest winters in recent memory. The destruction inside, it's so, so huge. So how do we do it? We do it like everybody else. We had our problems too. We keep, obviously keep bringing our complaints to the people that are able to give us this permission. Used to be through Kogat, through the Israeli authorities, who are the ones that give you the permission. More resources are going to have to be put by Israel, Arab countries, UN to make sure that the amount that go into Gaza increase, I would say tenfold. But sometimes you have to celebrate the little victories. But obviously you have to be putting pressure to the powers to be, to make sure that the people of Gaza don't have to keep going any one more day through the hardships and at times, obviously very heavy suffering they're going through. When the ceasefire came, everybody was kind of happy. But then the most difficult things still were ahead of that moment when the ceasefire, what you hope is that no more civilians die, no more doctors die, no more reporters die, no more humanitarians die. It's a bittersweet celebration that we are reaching a million meals. But right now the situation is very complicated, is really still on the edge. More humanitarian aid needs to go in to cover the basic needs living more of every single Palestinian.
- [08:49]
BBC Interviewer
And when you mentioned the humanitarians that have been killed, obviously it's coming up to two years since you lost seven of your workers in three vehicles. And I know there have been others killed since then. You were very Outspoken at that time, seeking the truth, seeking answers to what's happened. Do you have the information that you were looking for at this point? Are you satisfied with what the IDF has told you about that incident?
- [09:14]
Chef Jose Andres
The death of the seven Wolf Central Kitchen team members, some of them very good friends of mine that were was for me personally a big blowout. Obviously I feel very responsible because I'm the founder of the organization. I felt we had to be there obviously back in the time I said that somebody did it knowingly because the operation was known to IDF and if anything we were supposed to feel protected from any attack. But at the same time that this is something obviously I highly criticize what has been happening in Gaza. The destruction I saw the last time I was there a few weeks ago. It's something like what frankly was never supposed to happen. Nobody should be attacked. The actions of the few should be paid by the actions of the few. And we need to make sure that we isolate everything. If not, we are all in a continuous civil war against each other. That something so terrible like what has happened over the last years in that part of the world is something like one day, one day, maybe now it's too early. We'll bring people together. This is what we believe in. World Central Kitchen, longer tables. That's what we were the first day helping in Israel because it was the right thing to do. That's where we were the first day in Gaza because that was the right thing to do. And that's what we're doing today. Remember Wolf Central Gachen, we are an emergency organization. Eventually we will leave. Why we became so big because it's 1 million hand meals and it's beautiful to see the operation. Three bakeries. We have bakeries that they are top of the art. King Hussein from Jordan was the one that made them happen. We have three more on the works. Every one of those bakeries can make over 100,000 loaves of pita bread. Plus we have partner bakeries. Why? Because now we need to be supporting more local bakeries. So we start increasing kind of the private sector response to. But again, we need more trucks, we need more food, we need more tents, we need more medical care, more medicines, more equipment. The need in Gaza still is enormous.
- [11:23]
BBC Presenter Katrina Perry
You're listening to the interview from the BBC World Service.
- [11:31]
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- [12:34]
BBC Presenter Katrina Perry
I met Jose Andres at his Maryland home near the border with Washington D.C. he's clearly a passionate individual. He does not do half measures, not when describing his family, his food, nor the injustices he finds when doing his humanitarian work. He and his team are regularly in emergency zones and he shows me albums on his phone full of images and videos of people in need and of the comfortable conversation that he can provide.
- [13:07]
BBC Interviewer
When you talk about World Central Kitchen being able to go to emergency situations so quickly, I've heard you say before, you just get in there while the big guys like the UN agencies are still thinking about it. And sometimes it can take maybe weeks for them to turn up. Why is that? Why are you able to move so much faster?
- [13:25]
Chef Jose Andres
Well, what's in the region where is still a very small organization that sometimes we are operating in 14, 15, 16 places at once. Right now we are in Ukraine. We've been in Ukraine from day one of the war. Food sometimes doesn't solve problems, the long term problems, but food is the beginning to make sure that people don't lose hope. And because we're a small organization and very nimble organization, allow us sometimes to adapt very quickly. We don't have. One way we adapt is what we've been doing in Gaza. We adapt. So what we keep being is creative. Can we do food other ways? Can you please let us do food other ways? That's what World Central Kitchen does. We try to be creative. When there is hunger, you have to solve the problem. Because the urgency of now in terms of hunger and water is yesterday and
- [14:12]
BBC Interviewer
people cannot wait in 2022. You were speaking about international aid. You were speaking to some members of Congress and you said pragmatism and on the ground actionable intelligence are sorely lacking in international aid. Do you still think that's the case? So many more millions of people are hungry now than they were in 2022.
- [14:33]
Chef Jose Andres
Well, obviously you will say democracy dies in darkness, but you can say too that humanity dies in darkness if we don't know, governments, NGOs and people don't take action. Sudan is one of the biggest humanitarian disasters we're going through right now. It's very rare that you will read anything in newspapers across the world. So it's very important that obviously we give voice to those that bring awareness of the situations. Obviously, the situation of Gaza is terrible and shouldn't be terrible any longer. And therefore, I hope that in any second that increase of humanitarian aid with the permits to the NGOs that are experts in providing that aid will be the good outcomes of this peace forum or peace gathering that President Trump is organizing in Washington D.C. peace can only be achieved if first we give the things to the people of Gaza that they need to look at the future with a glimpse of hope. And more important, the people of Gaza need to be on the table where we are discussing the future of Gaza. Nobody else can be deciding on behalf of Palestinians.
- [15:58]
BBC Interviewer
You often say food is a human right. When you look at all these places where world central kitchen is active and indeed others as well. Do you think hunger is sometimes a weapon?
- [16:08]
Chef Jose Andres
Well, obviously hunger is a weapon. So using Ukraine, we saw the whole other more. That was one very big moment in history that we saw food being a weapon of war. Millions of Ukrainians die right now. We could say it's the same happening with the freezing conditions in Ukraine. It's another way that Ukrainians are suffering and elderly and many others even dying under very difficult winter conditions. In the case of Gaza, we saw that during many, many, many, many weeks, no humanitarian aid, no drug, no food was going in. The suffering that those people were going through was so highly unnecessary. Therefore, food is a human right, A human right that should be supported by everybody, that no children should go bed hungry even less in a conflict and even less in a conflict that in this case in Gaza. And so, yes, food has been used as a weapon of war, as a way of punishment. And this should not be allowed by any civilized democratic country, hopefully will never, ever happen again. But it's hard to see with the lack of leadership we see right now in the world, does UN needs to be changing totally? I think the UN from where it was formed to the UN that the world needs today, I think needs to change, but doesn't mean it needs to be disappearing. I think UN is a very important. Do we need to make it better between all? Yeah. Do we need to make sure that it's a more active organization. Not just organization of speeches, but organization of actions. Yeah, I will say, why is UN now with a bigger presence in Haiti right now? It's some presence, but not big presence as it should be. Why UN has not already a big presence in Gaza? Why not? We need to think about what we want UN to become. But UN I believe should be a way to achieve peace in the world or at least to maintain peace in places that there are conflicts that sometimes go back to decades or centuries. But UN has a role to play, only needs to fulfill the dream of what UN should become.
- [18:27]
BBC Interviewer
Has the shuttering of USAID had a dramatic impact on the work you're doing the regions that World Central Kitchen is in right now?
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Chef Jose Andres
Since USAID shut down, I think the world is not a better place. And I don't think the soft diplomacy of us has improved in any way or form. I hope that President Trump and Secretary Rubio will reconsider and bring USAID again forward. We need the usaid. We need an American power in the world to bring goodness in these moments of necessity because we need to remember countries also have come on the 8th of America, believe it or not, in certain situations and hurricanes. So this is the world together will always be a better place than the world being isolated and working in silos. So I hope USAID will come back. Somebody thought that USAID needs to be better even will it be USAID people that will tell you we need to improve usaid? I think you achieve much more rebuilding and reconstructing than destroying used to put aside usaid, I don't think plays in the best national security interest of the United States of America. And I hope over the next three years President Trump will reconsider and give another chance again to a USAID that serves the best interests of America by being next to our friends in moments of need.
- [19:50]
BBC Interviewer
When you mentioned giving aid to the US there, were you surprised that over the past year you've had to help so many people in this country? Be it because of flooding, hurricanes, wildfires and also during the government shutdown as well, helping federal workers.
- [20:05]
Chef Jose Andres
Well, Wolsey and Dragic and even we began in Haiti. Obviously our heart is here in the States. Unfortunately, hurricanes have been happening for centuries and they will keep happening. The same with tornadoes, the same with fires, and the same with flooding. Obviously. Quite frankly, I'm not a weather expert, but I follow it closely. And over the last 15 years we can say categorically that there's been an increase in those events because we go from droughts to floods in matter of weeks. And it's very difficult to understand why if you don't follow the weather patterns that are happening around the world. But we can see that it's happening.
- [20:48]
BBC Interviewer
But the federal workers that you were helping was because of the shutdown, because of their own government. Basically.
- [20:53]
Chef Jose Andres
Wilson Dragician began doing the fellow workers, mainly because I began doing it in my restaurants. And I didn't do it because it was a good PR or marketing stunt. I know many of my guests when you know that there is a woman that maybe is a single mother and relies on check to check to pay for groceries and her rent and childcare and the healthcare, and she has two or three children, at the end of the day, when the paycheck doesn't come, you know, this person is going to go through the hardships of having to decide, do I pay the school or I pay the medicines, or I put food on the table. And so for me, I began just saying, listen, until our politicians stop acting like children and take care of the people they're supposed to serve, let me start taking care of, of those people that are going through hardships. You know, people don't want our pity. People want our respect. And when you put a plate of food in the table, you do it because you are giving them the dignity they deserve. I hope our government, more often than not, they will sit in a table with those people that are suffering when they make decisions that don't help either one. Sometimes because you are right or left, Democrat or Republican. I think sometimes it's okay that either party stand strong to, you know, fulfill what their politics are. But I will always say that pragmatism, longer tables and remembering that every decision you make is going to be affecting people that are going to be Republican and Democrat anyway. This only tells you sometimes how not smart are the actions that sometimes our politicians take when there are shutdowns. So Portland tradition sometimes use response in a very apolitical way to the suffering on each of the people. That's what we did in the past, that's what we are doing today, and that's what we will keep doing in the future.
- [22:58]
BBC Interviewer
Listening to you describe the work of World Central Kitchen, you say a lot or words to that effect. We show up. There's an emergency, we show up. What keeps you showing up?
- [23:08]
Chef Jose Andres
You know, I have a day job. I'm a chef. I run my company. For me, it's been a blessing too. Maybe I'm a Catholic boy and I believe normally in the multiplying of bread and fish. Maybe it's because I love the longer tables of the Last Supper. When I go to these situations in the worst moments of humanity, the best of humanity shows up. If I go to any country far away, I will be in places that these people that also you can see they are from different sides of the political spectrum. But there they are together, working elbow with elbow, making sure that they bring help, aid, relief and hope to people. And when I see those moments of people coming together, I see man, there is hope. How we achieve that moment when we have leaders that bring us together, when we have leaders that don't bring the worst instincts within all of us, but the best angels we all have within. This is the type of leaders we need. At the end of the day, what people want is use leaders that serve them, that looks after their interests and that solve the problems, understanding that they're going to have to be building these longer tables where they have to work with each other. This is why I go to this emergencies, because in the worst moment of humanity, always the best of humanity shows up.
- [24:36]
BBC Presenter Katrina Perry
Thank you for listening to the interview. You'll find more in depth conversations on the interview wherever you get your BBC podcasts, including episodes with Hind Kabawat, Syria's only woman Minister Antonio Guterres, the UN Secretary General and the director Chloe Zhao. Until the next time. Bye for now.
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- [25:40]
Chef Jose Andres
A little,
- [25:42]
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