Podcast Summary: The Interview (BBC World Service)

Episode: Karol Nawrocki, Polish President: Europe has lost its way
Host: Nick Robinson
Guest: President Karol Nawrocki of Poland
Date: January 19, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation with Karol Nawrocki, President of Poland, historian, boxer, and social conservative. Nick Robinson explores Nawrocki’s view that Europe has “lost its way,” his deep suspicion of Russia, his endorsement of Donald Trump as Europe’s security guarantor, and his contentious relationship with the EU and his own government. The episode covers themes of security, transatlantic relations, cultural identity, and Europe’s future.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Russian Threat and Poland’s Response

• Historical Perspective on Russia
  Nawrocki describes Poland’s perception of Russia as a perennial threat, referencing centuries of conflict.
  • “We in Poland, we don't know different Russia... Putin's Russia is always the threat for Poland, for Europe, for Central Europe.” (03:59)
• Defense Expenditure and National Readiness
  Poland is significantly increasing its defense budget (up to 5% of GDP) as a response to Russian aggression, particularly after the drone incursions over the border.
• Transatlantic Alliance
  Nawrocki insists that close cooperation with the United States — and specifically with Donald Trump — is crucial for European security.
  • “Transatlantic cooperation with United States of America is indispensable.” (04:48)

2. Europe’s Misguided Priorities

• Criticism of EU Focus
  Nawrocki criticizes the EU for focusing on “ideological issues,” such as climate policy, the Green Deal, and migration, rather than defense and security.
  • “Europe for a number of years was involved in not so important things, in ideological issues, such as Green Deal, for instance, climate policy, migration issues. It was not building its resilience and its security.” (02:54 & 08:54)
• Advocacy for Debate in Democracy
  He affirms Poland's desire to remain in the EU but insists on the right to critique its direction and resist deeper integration that overrides national sovereignty.
  • “We would like to be in United Europe... We don't want to be voivodeship of United Europe.” (05:43)

3. Trust in Donald Trump and Transatlantic Security

• Support for Trump
  Nawrocki views Donald Trump as the only leader capable of negotiating with Vladimir Putin and ensuring European security.
  • “The only person in the world who is able to negotiate with Vladimir Putin is Donald Trump.” (10:47)
• Doubts Voiced by Other Europeans
  The host presses Nawrocki on fears that Trump is too close to Putin. Nawrocki insists Trump deserves European support while reiterating his own distrust of Putin.
  • “Of course, I completely do not trust Vladimir Putin... but we are also aware... the only person... to negotiate with Vladimir Putin is Donald Trump.” (10:47)
• Greenland and NATO Cohesion
  Nawrocki deflects concerns over Trump’s remarks about Greenland, framing them as a matter between Denmark and the U.S. but underlining the need for unity and dialogue in NATO.
  • “I'm deeply convinced... this matter will be resolved on a partnership basis within NATO...” (12:20)

4. Europe’s Identity Crisis & “Return to Values”

• Civilizational "Erasure" and Christian Roots
  Nawrocki echoes Trump’s fears about “civilizational erasure,” seeing a loss of traditional values as Europe’s fundamental problem.
  • “We are departing from certain roots, from certain values... we are being convinced that these ideologies are more important than the foundations.” (24:12)
• Hope for EU Reform
  He calls for a Europe built on its “Roman, Greek values and also Christian values” and hopes the EU will “return to its roots.”
  • “Europe is going to return to its roots... the European Union will be back to its economic basis... cling to its values...” (18:56)

5. Internal Polish Politics and EU Relations

• Contentious Relationship with EU and Polish Government
  Nawrocki is often at odds with the pro-EU government under PM Donald Tusk and FM Radek Sikorski, accused by critics of preparing for “Polexit.”
  • “I am a president who wants Poland to be part of the European Union, but who also has the right to question a certain ideological madness of the European Union...” (22:10)
• Importance of Domestic Political Disputes
  He downplays personal animosity, frames disagreements as natural in democracies, and insists on national unity in international affairs.
  • “There are political disputes all over. This is a feature of democracy... as far as the war in Ukraine... Poland stands ready to come together in the international arena.” (22:10)

6. Poland and the Right-Wing European Movement

• Alliances with Other Conservatives
  Nawrocki acknowledges cooperation with Italy’s Meloni and political alignment with right-wing leaders across Europe, sharing a desire for a less centralized EU.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “In the history, we know only the Russia who is the threatened. Even nowadays in 21st century, after aggression on Ukraine, Russia is still a threat for Europe. And Donald Trump nowadays is only one leader who can solve this problem.”
  — President Nawrocki (03:59)

• “We don't want to be voivodeship of United Europe. It's natural. Democracy is about discussion.”
  — President Nawrocki (05:43)

• “Russia was testing Poland's defense and testing NATO's solidarity. I am very glad that this Solidarity within NATO after 10th September last year, proved that indeed we are a strong alliance...”
  — President Nawrocki (07:23)

• “I'm deeply convinced that this matter [Greenland] will be resolved on the partnership basis within NATO and within democratic unity through the dialogue...”
  — President Nawrocki (12:20)

• “Poland was joining the European Union to have more freedom and not have more restrictions.”
  — President Nawrocki (17:29)

• “We are allowing ourselves to be imposed with certain temporary ideologies... If we are detaching ourselves... from the values which have been a part of our DNA for a thousand years... this simply takes Europe to a turning point.”
  — President Nawrocki (24:12)

Important Timestamps

• [02:54] Nawrocki’s critique of EU’s focus on the Green Deal and migration, over security.
• [03:59] Nawrocki on Poland’s historic view of Russia and endorsement of Trump.
• [07:23] Response to drone incursions and Poland/NATO’s resolve tested.
• [10:47] Trust in Trump, distrust of Putin, rationale for supporting the US as security guarantor.
• [12:20] Greenland, collective defense, and NATO’s future.
• [17:29] Polish-EU disputes on judiciary, media, and agriculture.
• [18:56] Cooperation with European right-wing leaders and the hope for EU reform.
• [20:40] Civilizational values and what Nawrocki sees as Europe’s “moment of erasure.”
• [22:10] Internal divisions in Poland, accusations of preparing for Polexit.
• [24:12] Reflection as a historian on Europe’s lost confidence and roots.

Summary

This episode gives a window into the worldview of Poland’s President Karol Nawrocki: a fierce opponent of Russian aggression, stalwart transatlanticist, staunch social conservative, and courageous critic of the EU’s current ideological direction. Nawrocki insists on the necessity of American leadership in Europe (especially via Trump), resists further EU integration that undermines national sovereignty, and urges Europe to rediscover and recommit to its historic, Christian foundations. His remarks provide key insight into the new conservative-fueled political forces reshaping European politics and the balance of power in the West.