Leopoldo Lopez, Venezuelan opposition leader: I am not bitter

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Interview – Leopoldo Lopez: "I am not bitter"

Podcast: The Interview (BBC World Service)
Host: James Menendez
Guest: Leopoldo Lopez, Venezuelan Opposition Leader
Date: May 14, 2026
Episode Length: ~25 minutes (excluding ads)

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Episode Overview

This episode features a revealing conversation with Leopoldo Lopez, the exiled Venezuelan opposition leader, following the momentous arrest of Nicolás Maduro and Venezuela’s transition into an uncertain post-Maduro phase. Lopez reflects on the political and personal costs of his fight for democracy, the prospects and requirements for new elections, the influence of external actors like the United States, and the necessity of national reconciliation without bitterness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Venezuela After Maduro’s Arrest

• Lopez acknowledges the significance of Maduro’s removal and arrest, the presence of US influence, and ongoing economic changes, but emphasizes Venezuela is not yet a democracy (04:07).
  • Quote: “Maduro is out. Maduro was captured. Maduro is facing justice for his crimes. And that in itself means an important change… but we are not where Venezuelans hope to be, which is in a free, prosperous and democratic Venezuela.” — Leopoldo Lopez (04:07)

2. US Influence: Protectorate or Opportunity?

• The discussion acknowledges that the US is currently exerting substantial influence over Venezuelan affairs (04:53–06:11):
  • The new reality is shaped by US diplomatic and military visits.
  • Lopez points out the previous dependence on Russia, China, Iran, and Cuba, arguing that most Venezuelans view current US involvement positively.
  • Quote: “More than 80% of Venezuelans appreciate positively the capture of Maduro and the influence of the United States.” — Leopoldo Lopez (05:28)

3. Path to Democratic Transition and Elections

• Elections are essential, but several prerequisites must be met before they can take place (07:02–09:00):
  • Creation of a new, independent electoral board.
  • Registration opportunities for the millions of Venezuelan exiles.
  • Opening civic space, media freedom, and removing laws that criminalize speech.
  • Quote: “Freedom of speech… is not happening. There is still fear. There are still consequences.” — Leopoldo Lopez (09:00)

4. Lopez’s Imprisonment and Personal Cost

• Lopez shares raw details of his imprisonment and its impact on his family (13:15–15:58):
  • Spent 7 years in prison, 4 in solitary confinement, followed by escape to the Spanish Embassy, and ongoing exile.
  • The regime retaliated against his family as recently as four months ago: “They stole absolutely everything. The toys of my kids, the pictures, the family albums… they killed my dogs.” — Leopoldo Lopez (15:58)
  • Over 700 political prisoners from his movement; his own Venezuelan nationality has been stripped.

5. Justice, Forgiveness, and Bitterness

• Lopez is adamant that neither he nor most former political prisoners are bitter or vengeful (14:12–14:49):
  • Quote: “At least my greatest personal victory is that they didn’t make me angry… when you become angry, you become, in a way, a prisoner of a sentiment that doesn’t allow you to go forward.” — Leopoldo Lopez (14:12)
  • He emphasizes pursuing justice through legal institutions, not political vendettas.

6. Vision of Freedom and Purpose

• Lopez describes his time in solitary confinement as an opportunity to contemplate the meaning of freedom and purpose:
  • Quote: “Freedom is not one thing. Freedom is the sum of many things… the freedom to speak, the freedom to assemble, the freedom to own property… all of those freedoms were taken away from us.” — Leopoldo Lopez (17:17)
  • He expresses a sense of gratitude for living with purpose through his struggles.

7. Reaction to Maduro’s Capture

• Lopez feels vindicated and relieved:
  • Quote: “I was happy to see that finally justice came. I was a sense of relief that what we have been saying for more than 10 years was true… And seeing Maduro facing justice, it’s a relief for the Venezuelan people.” — Leopoldo Lopez (19:04)

8. Lessons from the Past and Rebuilding

• Lopez reflects on lessons learned from pre-Chavez and Chavez/Maduro eras (20:46–21:42):
  • Chavez killed democracy “from within” despite being elected, dismantling institutions and media.
  • Restoration will require massive rebuilding of institutions and civil society.

9. Personal Future and Ambition

• Lopez expresses willingness to help rebuild Venezuela in whatever capacity possible, dependent on whether he can regain his passport and return (21:36–22:39).
  • He supports Maria Corina Machado as the opposition’s presidential candidate (23:59–24:05).

10. Challenges to Return and National Reconciliation

• Discusses the challenges for millions of Venezuelan exiles returning and the importance of diaspora participation.
• He is preparing to return himself as soon as possible, underscoring this is not just his family’s dilemma, but a national one (25:46–26:46):
  • Quote: “So that conversation that I’m having with my wife and my kids is the same conversation that many Venezuelan families are having today.” — Leopoldo Lopez (26:46)

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Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Our best reply to the regime is that they didn’t make us bad people, that we remain to be committed, we remain to be focused on our dream of seeing a free Venezuela.” — Leopoldo Lopez (03:32)
• “Justice is to be imparted by judges, not by politicians. That’s one of the important lessons of these 20 years of complete arbitrary and decay of the rule of law.” — Leopoldo Lopez (14:37)
• “It is a blessing to live life with a purpose. When you live with purpose, you can just live every day with a sense that you are building towards something you believe in.” — Leopoldo Lopez (18:49)
• “There is no way that the hopes for democracy… will fade away. That won’t happen.” — Leopoldo Lopez (24:43)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:32 – Lopez’s opening on not becoming bitter and maintaining purpose
• 04:07 – Maduro’s arrest and changes in Venezuela
• 05:28 – Direct US influence in Venezuela
• 07:09 – Requirements for credible elections
• 09:00 – Ongoing limits to civic space and free speech
• 14:12 – Lopez discusses personal victory over bitterness
• 15:58 – Retaliation against Lopez’s family and loss of nationality
• 17:17 – Meaning of freedom and purpose
• 19:04 – Reaction to images of Maduro’s arrest
• 21:36 – Lopez’s aspirations to help rebuild Venezuela
• 23:59 – Endorsement of Maria Corina Machado
• 25:46 – Family decision and return to Venezuela

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Tone & Language:
The conversation is candid, reflective, and resolute. Lopez’s language is measured but passionate, balancing realism about challenges with optimism about the future. He consciously rejects bitterness, framing his response to decades of persecution as a form of personal triumph.

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For Listeners:

This episode offers both a rare inside view of Venezuela’s uncertain but potentially transformative political moment, and a poignant testament to resisting personal bitterness in the face of profound hardship. It is valuable for anyone interested in Latin American politics, democratic transitions, and the human costs of authoritarianism.

Transcript

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[James Menendez]

hello, I'm BBC presenter James Menendez and this is the interview from the BBC World Service. The best conversations coming out of the BBC People shaping our world from all over the world. If you're not a little bit afraid, then you're not paying attention.

[Leopoldo Lopez]

We have never seen a people so united. Do not make that boat crossing.

[James Menendez]

Do not make that journey. Being born in America, feeling American, having

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[James Menendez]

We're more popular than populism. For this interview, I met Venezuelan opposition leader and activist Leopoldo Lopez at the BBC studios in London. Once the most prominent face of Venezuela's opposition. Lopez is now living in exile in Spain. He spent more than a decade attempting to unseat Nicolas Maduro's authoritarian government and was imprisoned for more than three years, accused of inciting the 2014 anti government protests. Following the capture and arrest of Maduro by US forces in January. The country has entered a new and uncertain phase with Vice President Delta Rodriguez now acting as. As interim leader. Leopoldo Lopez talks to us about the prospect of elections in Venezuela, the personal cost of standing up for political change, and what he feels is his greatest personal victory.

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Our best reply to the regime is that they didn't make us bad people, that we remain to be committed, we remain to be focused on our dream of seeing a free Venezuela. And I have seen other people become very bitter and angry and resentful and I think they lose because when you become angry, you become in a way a prisoner of a sentiment that doesn't allow you to go forward.

[James Menendez]

Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Leopoldo Lopez.

[Leopoldo Lopez]

I think that there is a very important change. Significant. Maduro is out. Maduro was captured. Maduro is facing justice for his crimes. And that in itself means an important change. There are also changes taking place in the economy. There is an opening to the oil and gas industry and there is a transition that is yet not a political transition to democracy. So there's things that have changed. We're much better off than what we were in January, but we, but we are not where Venezuelans hope to be, which is in a free, prosperous and democratic Venezuela.

[James Menendez]

Who's in charge? Is it the United States? I mean, is Venezuela currently effectively an American protectorate?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Well, I think Venezuela is under significant influence by the US and that's very clear. And let me give you some very graphic examples of that. Two weeks after Maduro was captured, the head of the CIA, Vic, visited Caracas and he was at the Presidential Palace. Then the Secretary of Energy went to Venezuela, the Secretary of Interior went to Venezuela. The commander of the Southern Command went to Caracas in uniform. So that gives you a very graphic description of the level of influence that the US has.

[James Menendez]

They're calling the shots, effectively. I mean, what Washington says goes.

[Leopoldo Lopez]

I think in a great deal that is true. Maybe some of the people that are listening to us would say, wow, that's something unacceptable. Well, it's important, important that we understand where we come from. Five months ago, Venezuela was under the tutelage not of the US but of Russia, China, Iran and Cuba. So unfortunately, Venezuela was not exercising its full sovereignty before. And now it's under the influence of the United States, which is something that most Venezuelans appreciate. More than 80% of Venezuelans appreciate positively the capture of Maduro and the influence of the United States.

[James Menendez]

So you're happy with that situation for the moment?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Well, I am happy that Maduro is removed. I am happy, like most Venezuelans, that there is a window of opportunity. And we are also very conscious that we need to build the path to democracy.

[James Menendez]

Do you think this Trump administration is interested in democracy in Venezuela?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

I think the United States inevitably is interested in democracy in Venezuela. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has said several times that there is a plan unfolding on three stages, stabilization, economic recovery, and transition. And he has said several times that that transition is to a legitimate government and that a legitimate government can only take place if there is an election.

[James Menendez]

So, but what's the timescale? I mean, what timescale would you like to see for that transition to elections?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

So I think, rather than thinking about specific times. So we would like that to happen.

[James Menendez]

You must have an idea in your mind.

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Well, I think, like many Venezuelans, that it should happen as soon as it can happen, but then we should talk about what are the conditions for that election. So it's not just about the time for the election. It's what needs to happen. And let me just unpack some of the things that need to happen. One, there needs to be an electoral board, a new electoral board designated that will call for the election. Two, Venezuelans would need to be able to register. There are 10 million Venezuelans living outside our country of a population of 30 million. That is one third of the population that left in the past 10 years. So it's been not just massive, but very, very quick. And those Venezuelans are not registered to vote. At least 5 to 6 million of those Venezuelans that are living outside would be eligible to vote. There are millions of young people that were not able to register for the past elections. There needs to be a revision of the electoral system. So things need to happen before the election take place. However, the transition to democracy is not just elections. There are other things that need to happen. And in my view, they need to happen now. And I'll mention two of them. One, the opening of the civic space. We were talking before the interview about foreign correspondents not being able to go to Venezuela, like yourself, not being able to get a visa. And this is a sign of a closed society. I think the opening of the civic space needs the opening to the media, to freedom of speech. That is not happening.

[James Menendez]

And at the moment, would you say that people are not completely free to say what they want? I mean, we've heard reports that people are able to criticize the government and voice their opinions in public more than they were when Maduro was in power. But it's still limited.

[Leopoldo Lopez]

It's still limited. There is still fear. There are still consequences. There is still censorship. Hundreds of websites are blocked. Hundreds of radio stations were expropriated and closed. There were journalists sent into prison. The laws that criminalize speech are still in place. A law called the hate law that criminalizes speech and gives total arbitrary to the state to incarcerate people for what they say.

[James Menendez]

Which is essentially what happened to you, right? I mean, that's how they put you in prison.

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Yeah, Well, I was leading the protests against Maduro in 2014, but because they had nothing against me, they made up a case, and it was a case about free speech. Because what went to trial were my speeches and because I never called for violence. The judge concluded that I had sent subliminal messages to the Venezuelan people. And on those grounds, I was sentenced to 14 years of imprisonment. So that's where we are coming from, from that level of total arbitrary execution of power.

[James Menendez]

Can I just ask you one final question about the transition? And it involves Maria Corina Machado, who effectively became the opposition leader. She wasn't allowed to stand in the elections. Somebody else had to stand in her place. Was she betrayed by President Trump over this transition so far? I mean, she's been waiting in the wings for a long time. She looked like the woman who was ready to take over if Maduro was deposed, which she was. And then President Trump said, it's not the right time. Was that a betrayal?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

I don't think it's a betrayal. It's a decision made by the US of how they wanted to do the transition.

[James Menendez]

But if you were in her place, would you feel betrayed?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Well, I don't think it's about feeling betrayed. It's about being focused on what needs to happen. And she's being very clear that Venezuela needs an election. And she's been very clear that that election needs to have conditions that we need to unify the country around that idea.

[James Menendez]

You're listening to the interview from the BBC World Service.

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[James Menendez]

this wasn't the first time I'd met Leopoldo Lopez. When I first went to Venezuela in the early 2000s, he was just starting out on his career. He was a local mayor and full of energy for the political fight. Well, that was 20 years ago and I expected some of that energy to have faded now given his experiences, but somehow it hasn't. He is still full of beans and incredibly doesn't seem bitter about his treatment. Okay, let's return to my conversation with Leopoldo Lopez. Thinking about what happened to you and all the others who ended up in prison, political prisoners, and many of whom are still in prison. One aspect of the transition we haven't talked about is re establishing the rule of law and what happens to those who have committed human rights abuses. I mean, what from a personal point of view I mean, how angry are you about the way you treated and the length of time that you had to spend in prison and clearly the personal toll that that must have taken on you?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

No, it's a great question, because I think at least my greatest personal victory is that they didn't make me angry. And this is something that I share with a lot of political prisoners, that although we were victims, although we were tortured, although our freedom was taken away, we are not bitter, we are not angry about.

[James Menendez]

Why not? Well, because, I mean, it's perfectly legitimate reaction.

[Leopoldo Lopez]

It's perfectly legitimate. But I think being angry makes you a worse person. And I think that our best reply to the regime is that they didn't make us bad people, that we remain to be committed, that we remain to be focused on our dream of seeing a free Venezuela. And I have seen other people become very bitter and angry and resentful, and I think they lose. Because when you become angry, you become, in a way, a prisoner of a sentiment that doesn't allow you to go forward. It doesn't mean that we don't want justice. Of course there needs to be justice in Venezuela, but we now understand very clearly that justice is to be imparted by judges, not by politicians. That's one of the important lessons of these 20 years of complete arbitrary and decay of the rule of law. So what we expect to happen, as it happened in South Africa, in Chile, in Argentina, and in many other transitions, is that there is a path to transitional justice and to truth and to those responsible for having committed crimes against the Venezuelan people will face justice.

[James Menendez]

What price have you and your family paid, though, for that time you spent in prison? The fact that you had to make your escape from Venezuela and ended up in exile and remain in exile?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Yes. Well, I spent seven years in prison, four of them in solitary confinement. Then I escaped and went to the Spanish Embassy, where I stayed a year and a half. And then I escaped and came into exile. But the attacks on my family and myself have remained. Last November, I gave an interview where I supported the buildup of the United States military pressure and the buildup that led to the capture of Maduro. And the reaction of the regime was that they went into my house in Caracas. They stole absolutely everything. The toys of my kids, the pictures, the family albums, everything. Then they tore the house down, the walls, the ceilings. They killed my dogs. I had two Labrador dogs. And two days after that, they stripped me of my Venezuelan nationality. And this is four months ago. So it's been decades of facing the persecution of the Maduro regime. Not just myself, but my family, our movement. We've had over 700 political prisoners from my movement.

[James Menendez]

So why did you keep doing it? I mean, before you were sent to prison, why? Knowing the risks, why did you keep pushing, keep protesting?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Because we have a purpose, which is to see a free Venezuela. And we are blessed to wake up every day with a purpose. And I thought about this a lot when I was in prison. I mean, imagine what solitary confinement is. I mean, I invite the people who are listening to us to think of spending, maybe do the exercise, spend 10 minutes without your phone in a room that you don't have books, you don't have anything, and then project that to a day. Project that to a week. Week becomes months without anything. It's just you, your thoughts, your internal presence. So I thought a lot about why I was there. And I ended up in prison because I was leading the protest against Maduro for a free Venezuela. So I thought a lot about what freedom means. And it became very clear to me that freedom is not one thing. Freedom is the sum of many things. All of them that have been taken away from me and millions of Venezuelans. The freedom to speak, the freedom to assemble, the freedom to move, the freedom to own property, the freedom to be equal to the law. And all of those freedoms were taken away from us. So for me, it became very clear that all of our fight was for that dream, for a free and democratic Venezuela. And it is a blessing to live life with a purpose. When you live with purpose, you can just live every day with a sense that you are building towards something you

[James Menendez]

believe in, and a life without anger and without bitterness, as you said. But when you saw those images of Nicolas Maduro being taken to a jail in New York in handcuffs, what was going through your mind?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Well, I was happy to see that finally justice came. I was a sense of relief that what we have been saying for more than 10 years was true. We were the first movement that called Maduro a dictator. Back in 2014, we were the first people saying that Maduro was anarco. Back in 2014, people said that we were exaggerating. I remember coming to Europe, going to the US Saying, Maduro, and before him, Chavez. These are criminals. They have entrenched a criminal organization that has taken over the Venezuelan state. Many people thought we were exaggerating. Many people thought we were exaggerating. When we said that there were links with the Colombian and the Mexican cartels or with Hezbollah. All of that is proven. All of that information about the Crimes that they committed is registered at the un, at the icc, but none that was clear when we called for protest. So in a way, it's a revindication of what we always said. And seeing Maduro facing justice, it's a relief for the Venezuelan people.

[James Menendez]

And yet Hugo Chavez, Nicolas Maduro's predecessor, he won elections. People had great hopes for him. People who had been neglected in the past by the politicians of the past. I mean, is that something that you've thought about going forward in the sense that the opposition now needs to recognize a huge swathe of Venezuelan society, had hope that their lives would be improved, their lives would be recognized, and what they don't want to see is a return to what many regarded as the oligarchy of the past.

[Leopoldo Lopez]

There are lessons learned about what were the mistakes before Chavez, back in the 90s, back in the 80s, many mistakes from that period. But of course, there are more lessons learned from the past two decades. That meant the killing of democracy from within, because that's what Chavez did. As you say, Chavez was elected with a vote, but what he did when he was elected was to kill democracy from within. He packed the institutions, changed the constitution, closed the media, strangled civil society and managed the resources with a level of corruption never seen in recorded history.

[James Menendez]

So it's a huge task to rebuild the country and rebuild those institutions. Is that something that you want to be involved in, you hope to be involved in?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Absolutely. Like in what capacity? In whatever capacity the circumstances allow me. I want to go.

[James Menendez]

Well, I mean, you define your own destiny, don't you?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Well, in a way, but, you know, first I want. I need to be back in Venezuela.

[James Menendez]

But you need a Venezuelan passport, right?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Yeah, I don't have. They took away my Venezuelan.

[James Menendez]

I mean, just. I mean, that's an interesting. I mean, how's that going to happen then? I mean, are you going to.

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Well, that's. Those are things.

[James Menendez]

Are you applying for one?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

It just goes to show, right, how many things need to happen for this transition to actually be launched. But there are many Venezuelans that are in exile that want to go back. There are many Venezuelans that are in Venezuela that want to work in the, in the build up and in the recovery. And it's actually a very exciting challenge for us Venezuelans because this is the first time that Venezuela as a nation has so many of our nationals living outside our country.

[James Menendez]

But how important is it that the majority of those come back? Because without it, it's going to be difficult to build a country. I mean, you need that human capital, don't you?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

If you look at what happens with large migration, not all people go back. And it's natural because, I mean, people go out, they have kids, they have stable jobs. So going back is not that easy. In the best case scenario, from what I've seen of other migration cases, maybe a third of the people would be able to go back. But even those that don't go back would go back with their capital or will go back with their connections. We have seen that there are today billions of dollars that are being transferred from Venezuelans living abroad to their families living in Venezuela. And that will continue and that will continue to grow. If Venezuela opens to opportunities, opens to a functioning market economy, many of those Venezuelans will be able to invest in many industries in Venezuela to create their own startups, to think of ways of connecting what they are doing here in the UK or in whatever they may be to things that are needed in Venezuela.

[James Menendez]

We've veered off a bit towards everybody else and whether they'll return and what they'll do. But what about you? I mean, do you still harbor ambitions to be president of your country? Is that what you want?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Well, I have the hope to go back to Venezuela. We don't even have an election called yet. We will have an election.

[James Menendez]

But you must be thinking about these things.

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Well, we have a clear candidate now that it's Maria Machado.

[James Menendez]

And you'd support her?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Oh, absolutely. She's clearly the person who is leading this process. But we need to build the path to that election which is not open yet. And that's what we need to focus on.

[James Menendez]

Yeah, and just to return to, I guess, where we started, I mean, how worried are you that that window may close, that the Trump administration, which as you say is basically calling the shots in Venezuel, may lose interest, that momentum may be lost, the Republicans may lose in the midterms and President Trump becomes a lame duck president. How are you going to ensure that that window stays open and that that momentum, even if it's not from Washington, but from within Venezuela, continues?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

There is no way that the hopes for democracy, and that means elections of the Venezuelan people will fade away. That won't happen.

[James Menendez]

But you know how these things can sometimes happen. We have an interim president, Delcio Rodriguez. There are multiple reports that she has been pushing some people out from the Maduro era and putting her own people in place. Isn't there a danger that that new interim in inverted commas administration becomes more entrenched and those people have less reason to leave.

[Leopoldo Lopez]

I think that's what they have in mind.

[James Menendez]

You think that's what they're trying to do?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

Oh, absolutely. I think that that's and her brother's plan to stay in power. It's always been that way. But we need to channel that expectation of the Venezuelan people towards an election. And I think we can do that without entering in friction and conflict with the priorities of the agenda of the United States for Venezuela, which are stabilization and economic recovery.

[James Menendez]

When are you going to book your flight to Caracas?

[Leopoldo Lopez]

As soon as I can. This year? Certainly. This year, yeah, certainly, yeah. And the most important thing is to make the decision, say I want to go back and to reinforce that idea. And I have made that decision with my family. My family went through a lot. I have three kids. For four years they only saw me in prison once in a while. Then they left and I didn't see them for two years. Now we are together. So for us, like for many, it's a family decision too. And it's part of what many families are living through. It's very interesting to talk to many other Venezuelans that they are also having this conversation. Are you going to go back? When are you going to go back? What will you be doing if you go back? So that conversation that I'm having with my wife and my kids is the same conversation that many Venezuelan families are having today.

[James Menendez]

Thank you for listening to the interview. For more compelling conversations, search for the interview. Wherever you get your BBC podcasts, you'll find episodes from the Venezuelan opposition leader and Nobel Prize winner Maria Corina Machado, director Chloe Zhao and musical icon Ringo Starr, plus many others. Until the next time, bye for now. Premier hosts on VRBO deliver quality vacation

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