Podcast Summary: The Interview – Melanie Perkins, Canva CEO: From Information to Imagination

BBC World Service | Host: Zoe Kleinman | Date: December 5, 2025

Overview

This episode features a conversation with Melanie Perkins, CEO and co-founder of Canva, exploring her journey from starting a tech company in Perth, Australia, to building a global platform that empowers millions of people to design. Perkins reflects on Canva’s impact, the evolution from the information era to the imagination era, how technology is reshaping education and work, her views on philanthropy and wealth, and her ambitions for Canva and society at large.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. From Information to Imagination Era

• Melanie Perkins articulates a paradigm shift in how we learn and work, moving from the "information era" of knowledge management to an "imagination era" demanding creativity and problem-solving.

• She argues that students and workers must focus less on memorizing facts and more on asking the right questions and leveraging technology.

  Quote:
  “The information era is what we really built many of our schools around, which is learning knowledge, reciting knowledge... But I think that the world that our students are going to be going in is a very different world... Rather than it being about what can you learn and what questions can you know the answers to, it's actually about what questions can you ask and how can you find out those answers with the tools and technology that we have available?”
  — Melanie Perkins (02:39)

2. Building Canva: Overcoming Early Rejection

• Perkins recounts the early struggles, being rejected by over 100 investors before success.

• Those setbacks prompted her to refine and clarify her pitch, contributing to Canva’s clarity and eventual success.

• Canva now boasts around 250 million users a month, but Perkins highlights a continuous journey, citing milestones from their first users to seeing strangers excitedly recognize Canva "swag" in public.

  Quote:
  “The hundred investor rejections I got were extremely painful at the time. But I also used it to refine our pitch... Those rejections, we really used to fuel the clarity of our pitch deck.”
  — Melanie Perkins (18:17)

3. Canva’s Global Team & the Australian Tech Scene

• Although Canva started in Perth, it has grown into a global company with over 5,000 employees (including 4,150 in Europe).

• Perkins describes Australia’s tech vibe as “great,” distinctly different from Silicon Valley, developed in part thanks to early government support programs.

  Quote:
  “There is a burgeoning tech scene. There is an incredible amount of investors and startups and larger companies... so it's certainly changed in the last decade.”
  — Melanie Perkins (05:31)

4. Philanthropy & Social Responsibility

• Perkins expresses discomfort with the label "billionaire," saying she feels like a custodian of wealth, responsible for directing it to meaningful causes.

• Canva’s two-step plan: “Build one of the world’s most valuable companies and do the most good we can do” (07:37).

• Canva has given over $1 billion in free products to nonprofits and schools and pledged $100 million to combat extreme poverty in the next three years.

  Quote:
  “The word billionaire has never sat right with me whatsoever because I feel like we're just custodians of that, and our job is to use that money to help in the most meaningful way we can during our lifetime.”
  — Melanie Perkins (08:42)

5. AI, Disruption, & the Future of Work

• Perkins acknowledges AI’s volatility but stresses Canva focuses on enduring value and profitability over trend-chasing.

• She resists prophesying about an AI "bubble" but recognizes both real value creation and risk in the current climate.

  Quote:
  “We are building an enduring company that solves real problems for real people. So it doesn't matter too much to us what happens in the wider macroeconomic environment.”
  — Melanie Perkins (09:15)

• On AI’s impact on jobs:

  • Perkins believes all professions undergo radical tool changes every few decades, but their end goals persist.
  • Design is proliferating, not disappearing; Canva democratizes design while also empowering professionals.

  Quote:
  “The tools change. Absolutely. We're continuously needing to tool up and learn new skills. But the actual... The end goal of each profession, I think, actually stays remarkably similar.”
  — Melanie Perkins (13:50)

6. AI, Copyright, and Creators

• Perkins describes Canva’s opt-in approach to using creators’ work for AI training, emphasizing consent and compensation.

• She discusses “AI slop”—low-quality outputs from generative tools—and sees it as a necessary phase in learning to use new technology well.

  Quote:
  “Maybe everyone goes through the AI slop phase where they're kind of learning how to use it... I think it's a process for everyone.”
  — Melanie Perkins (16:56)

7. Education & Lifelong Learning

• Perkins repeats her argument that schools should move from memorization to equipping students with problem-solving and empathy.

• Lifelong learning is crucial as technology and required skills continuously evolve.

  Quote:
  “If you learn how to solve a problem and you learn how to use the best of technology and putting it to good use, it doesn't really matter what happens in the world. You'll be ready for it.”
  — Melanie Perkins (11:27)

8. Personal Routines, Boundaries & Long-Term Goals

• Perkins describes attempts to foster healthy work-life boundaries: disabling email and Slack on her phone, aspiring to finish work at 7 PM, and fully disconnecting outside work hours.

• She discusses her “2050 wall,” a visualized list of long-term societal goals with an emphasis on strong communities, purpose, and collective action.

  Quote:
  “There's a quote that I love which is everything good was once imagined. And so if we don't imagine it, then it literally can't be the reality that we live in.”
  — Melanie Perkins (19:54)

• For Canva, “empowering the world to design” is broken down into mission pillars, with annual objectives addressing each.

Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On changing education:
  “...it's actually about what questions can you ask and how can you find out those answers with the tools and technology that we have available?” (02:39)

• On early rejections:
  “The hundred investor rejections I got were extremely painful at the time. But I also used it to refine our pitch.” (18:17)

• On wealth:
  “It’s not what I am because it's the amount of money that Canva has is valued at that we... It's not money for me to go and buy things with. It's literally to give away. And we've committed to giving it all away over our lifetime.” (08:48)

• On the future of design work:
  “Design is every single touch point with a company... The tools change consistently, but... the end goal of each profession, I think, actually stays remarkably similar.” (13:50)

• On lifelong learning and AI:
  “That's only because it's a continuous journey and... we're continuously learning and honing our skills and I think that's something that we all need to be learners in this new world.” (17:40)

• On visualizing the future:
  "If we don't imagine it then it literally can't be the reality that we live in." (19:54)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Canva’s mission and origins (02:39–04:43)
• Australian tech scene vs. Silicon Valley (05:08–05:55)
• Philanthropy and giving pledge (07:35–08:48)
• Profitability, AI “bubble”, and company strategy (09:04–09:56)
• Rethinking education for the imagination era (10:18–11:27)
• AI’s impact on jobs and design industry (13:31–15:19)
• Copyright, creators, and AI training (16:04–16:50)
• Learning to use AI and the “AI slop” phase (16:56–17:40)
• Rejection and advice to founders (18:07–19:35)
• 2050 vision and future goals (19:47–21:13)
• Work-life balance and personal digital boundaries (21:47–23:33)

Conclusion

Melanie Perkins shares a vision for a future shaped by creativity, empathy, and collective action, both at the level of individual empowerment through Canva and larger societal challenges. Her journey underscores resilience through rejection, the importance of values-driven leadership, and a conviction that technological change demands continual personal and systemic adaptation.

This episode offers inspiration and practical insight for entrepreneurs, educators, and anyone interested in the role of technology in shaping the future.