The Interview – Nicholas Opiyo, Human Rights Lawyer: Ugandans Want Change
Date: January 26, 2026
Host: Katherine Biarahanga, BBC World Service
Guest: Nicholas Opiyo, Ugandan human rights lawyer and activist
Episode Overview
In this episode of The Interview, BBC's Katherine Biarahanga speaks with Nicholas Opiyo, a leading Ugandan human rights lawyer who has played a pivotal role in many landmark legal and constitutional cases. Now living in exile in Washington D.C. due to threats against his safety, Opiyo shares candid reflections on Uganda’s political trajectory under President Yoweri Museveni’s 40-year rule, the deep challenges to democracy and justice in Uganda, and what change might look like for a nation with one of Africa’s youngest populations.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Museveni’s 40-Year Rule: Achievements and Consequences
- Background and Contrast of Eras
- First 20 years: Marked by "rebellion and bloodshed."
- Later 20 years: "Fairly peaceful," ending large-scale internal conflict ([03:03]).
- Achievement with Caveats
- “[Museveni’s] ascent to power was on the background of a very bloody conflict...we’ve got to give him credit for that...there is no active rebel in the country fighting the government of Uganda.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([12:44])
- “[Museveni’s] ascent to power was on the background of a very bloody conflict...we’ve got to give him credit for that...there is no active rebel in the country fighting the government of Uganda.”
- Critique: Stagnation and Power Consolidation
- Long rule has “created the state in the image of the individual who is leading the country...the bureaucratic state, the political state, the citizenry is all shaped...to think about him as indispensable.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([06:28]) - Lack of peaceful transfer of power is “undermining his achievements by seeking to cling on to power by seeking to use brute violent means to stay in power.” ([03:03], [13:32])
- Long rule has “created the state in the image of the individual who is leading the country...the bureaucratic state, the political state, the citizenry is all shaped...to think about him as indispensable.”
The Psychology of a Nation Ruled by One Man
- Uganda’s Youthful Demographics
- 75% of population under age 35 – have only ever known Museveni as president ([06:28]).
- Leads to impatience and disconnection: “They have no idea about what Museveni claims he went to fight for in the bush…they’ve only seen 40-year rule resulting into high unemployment rates, poor services…increased violation of human rights.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([06:28])
- Risks of Politically Excluded Youth
- “When you don’t have the possibility of a transfer of power...you risk radicalizing people. People begin to see other ways of changing government other than by the ballot.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([06:28])
- “When you don’t have the possibility of a transfer of power...you risk radicalizing people. People begin to see other ways of changing government other than by the ballot.”
Elections: Ritual Without Choice
- 2026 Election and Voter Disillusionment
- “Only 53% of voters turned out…because the vast majority know that an election is a full-on exercise. It's a waste of time because the winner is predetermined.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([16:20]) - Reports of “voter suppression using technical means” and delayed polling in opposition areas ([16:20])
- “Only 53% of voters turned out…because the vast majority know that an election is a full-on exercise. It's a waste of time because the winner is predetermined.”
- Escalation of Repression
- “Main challenges [to Museveni] have either been in prison or facing serious charges or living threats of their life...the same thing to Bobby Wine.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([19:08]) - “There is always a fear of post-election violence and the response of the regime is to lock up or keep leaders under house arrest.” ([19:08])
- “Main challenges [to Museveni] have either been in prison or facing serious charges or living threats of their life...the same thing to Bobby Wine.”
The Legacy of Conflict and the Need for Justice
- Personal Experience of Civil War
- Opiyo recounts, “Growing up as a child [in northern Uganda], I witnessed these atrocities...revenge killing...atrocities have been documented by Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International.” ([09:58])
- Historical Trauma and Unresolved Grievances
- “We must address the question of historical injustice and come to terms with our dirty past, provide at least acknowledgement for the suffering...provide some measure of restitution and allow people to heal.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([21:57])
- “We must address the question of historical injustice and come to terms with our dirty past, provide at least acknowledgement for the suffering...provide some measure of restitution and allow people to heal.”
The Hope and Challenge of Change
- Signs of Hope
- “There’s now collective agreement across the divide in the country, that Museveni is now on his way out...how we deal with that process will determine whether this country will move forward peacefully or not.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([21:14])
- “There’s now collective agreement across the divide in the country, that Museveni is now on his way out...how we deal with that process will determine whether this country will move forward peacefully or not.”
- Need for Power Devolution
- “What we have done in Uganda is concentrate power at the center. We have an imperial presidency...we must devolve power and allow for people to engage in their own self-governance.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([23:12]) - Central government should “retain power over a few things...but must allow people in their own locality to manage themselves.” ([23:12])
- “What we have done in Uganda is concentrate power at the center. We have an imperial presidency...we must devolve power and allow for people to engage in their own self-governance.”
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
On Living in Exile
- “This is the first time I’ve had to sit out an election cycle and watch it from a distance...being removed from it is deeply upsetting, at a personal and professional level.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([04:06])
On the Reality of Ugandan Elections
- “Voting was supposed to begin at about 7am so there was some measure of voter suppression using technical means.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([16:20])
On the Cost of Dissent
- “The actions taken against Bobi Wine, his supporters, are actions calculated to suppress any discontent with the outcome of the election results.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([19:08])
On the Path Forward
- “Unless we address the question of historical injustice, we’ll have grievances now and again simmering and causing tensions in the country.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([21:57]) - “If you devolve power and allow people to manage themselves, you actually will solve a lot of the problems of governing Uganda.”
– Nicholas Opiyo ([23:12])
Key Timestamps
- 03:03 – Opiyo assesses Museveni's legacy: peace vs. lack of democratic progress
- 04:06 – Personal impact of forced exile during Ugandan elections
- 06:28 – The psychological effect on Uganda's young generation
- 09:58 – Revisiting the brutality and trauma of northern Uganda’s wars
- 12:44 – Balancing peaceful era with lack of power transfer
- 16:20 – Analysis of the 2026 election and the legitimacy crisis
- 19:08 – Suppression and arrest of opposition leaders and implications for democracy
- 21:14 – Signs of hope and consensus on need for transition
- 21:57 – The necessity of justice and healing for the nation’s future
- 23:12 – The call for devolution and participatory governance
Conclusion
Nicholas Opiyo delivers a powerful, deeply informed critique of Uganda’s political trajectory under Museveni while offering a path forward grounded in justice, devolution, and healing. For both personal and national reasons, he insists, change is not only necessary but inevitable—what remains uncertain is whether Uganda can achieve this peacefully and inclusively.