The Interview from BBC World Service

Episode: Sir Nick Clegg: Social Media’s Power Paradox (Nov 26, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode features a conversation between Sir Nick Clegg—former UK Deputy Prime Minister and recently President of Global Affairs at Meta (Facebook’s parent company)—and BBC presenter Amol Rajan.
The focus is on the paradoxical nature of power in social media and AI: modern technology empowers individuals and small entities to reach the world, yet it also funnels massive power into the hands of a few companies and their leaders. Clegg provides inside perspectives from both politics and big tech, reflecting on the future of digital society, the risks and benefits of social media, and the coming impacts of artificial intelligence.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power Paradox in Social Media & Technology

• Definition: Social media and smartphones have decentralized the ability to reach global audiences, empowering anyone. Simultaneously, power and wealth have become highly concentrated within a few tech giants.
• Clegg on network effects:
  • "The more human beings use them, the more useful they are... And at the same time, it aggregates this astonishing amount of power and wealth in the hands of... a small number of men in, in Silicon Valley..." (05:03)
• The rise of platforms like TikTok, despite dominance by earlier giants, shows tech is fluid, but the same network effects quickly re-concentrate power.
• Quote:
  • “You can have a sort of fragmented landscape tends not to pan out like that when human beings start using new communication tools at scale.” (05:03)

2. Should Big Tech be Broken Up?

• Clegg is skeptical of trust-busting as a solution:
  • “Don’t rely on this idea that you can sort of chop them up into nice neat little bits and they'll sort of stay like that. It’s such a liquid fast moving technology. I just don’t think that would work.” (06:42)
• Instead, he emphasizes more transparency, user rights, and control, rather than breakup.

3. Social Media’s Impact on Kids and Society

• The host notes the “messy” evidence about social media’s effect on youth mental health, especially teenage girls (09:08–10:04).
• Clegg advises caution against sweeping tech bans and urges nuance:
  • “At a societal level, it is exceptionally difficult to assert with real clarity and confidence that there is a causal link between the use of social media... and mental well being.” (09:08)
• He supports:
  • Age-appropriate experiences enforced by tech firms.
  • Schools as phone-free (not tech-free) zones.
  • “You want to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater, which is where I think quite a lot of the debate’s heading now.” (10:21)

4. Reflections on Mark Zuckerberg and Silicon Valley Culture

• Clegg describes Zuckerberg as “very immersed in engineering... remorselessly competitive... but he retains an unusual ability to listen.” (14:20)
• Critiques the myth of the “philosopher king” CEO:
  • “They are great technologists... but I wouldn’t look to them... for [moral leadership], which is why I remain firmly of the view that governments should remain absolutely in the driving seat on the big judgments...” (16:04)
• On companies’ motivations: “Their first duty... is that their company should prevail.” (16:31)

5. Why Clegg Left Meta

• He left due to a shifting political/tech atmosphere, especially Silicon Valley’s deeper entanglement with politics post-2020 and the rise of political polarization:
  • “It was a massive vibe shift... When I saw that the whole of Silicon Valley... was just going to go really go massively into politics... I remain of the view that private sector enterprise and innovation flourishes best when it’s at a respectable distance from political power.” (17:24–18:44)

6. The Future: From Human-Centric to AI-Centric Platforms

• Clegg predicts a shift from platforms for human expression/connection to pipelines of algorithmically and synthetically generated content:
  • “These great platforms... will increasingly become pipelines for algorithmically recommended entertainment content, where we as humans become... more passive recipients... of both synthetically generated content...” (03:34; repeated at 19:28)
• Echoing the host’s concern:
  • “We’re becoming slave to the algorithm.” (20:23–20:30)
• Clegg notes that earlier critiques of social media underestimated human agency, but in the AI era, “it’s a critique that... will come into its own.” (20:30)

7. Rise of Agentic Artificial Intelligence and the Next Power Paradox

• The proliferation of highly personalized AI “agents” (virtual assistants) will increase user dependence, while the ability to produce and deliver these systems will still be restricted to a handful of extremely wealthy corporations.
  • “To build these foundation models in the first place is only something that... a very, very small number of private sector entities [can do].” (21:35–22:30)
• The financial might:
  • “Microsoft... worth around $3 trillion... going to spend $40 billion... $50, $100 billion on [AI]... Meanwhile... the UK government can’t find $5 billion of welfare savings.” (22:30)

8. US–China Tech Rivalry and Open Source Irony

• US political leaders increasingly view AI as a zero-sum race to defeat China, aiming for a “Berlin Wall moment” in AGI (23:07).
• Clegg argues this is mistaken. The “greatest autocracy” (China) is actually democratizing AI via open source more than the “greatest democracy” (USA).
  • “You’ve got the world’s greatest autocracy that is... in its competition against the world’s greatest democracy, America doing more to democratize the technology... I don’t think America is going to beat China like that.” (23:07–24:42)
• US must relearn “leadership through partnership,” not just domination.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Social Media Power:
  • “It has a great democratizing effect, empowers people in an unprecedented way... And at the same time, it aggregates this astonishing amount of power and wealth in the hands of... a small number of men in... Silicon Valley.”
    — Sir Nick Clegg (05:03)
• On Breaking Up Big Tech:
  • “It’s such a liquid fast moving technology. I just don’t think [breakup] would work.”
    — Sir Nick Clegg (06:42)
• On Youth and Tech:
  • “You want to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater, which is where I think quite a lot of the debate’s heading now.”
    — Sir Nick Clegg (10:21)
• Mark Zuckerberg’s character:
  • “He retains an unusual ability to listen... But he has this sort of almost technologist view. If he doesn’t understand something, he needs to learn all about it... then come to a view.”
    — Sir Nick Clegg (14:20)
• On tech CEOs’ obligations:
  • “They’re not philosopher kings, they’re not moral leaders. Don’t look to them for that... Their first duty... is that their company should prevail.”
    — Sir Nick Clegg (16:04 & 16:31)
• On Why He Left Meta:
  • “I was always the advocate of... rebuilding relationships with governments... I actually argued even that getting out of the business of running political ads on Facebook, altogether, globally... it was a massive vibe shift... when I saw that... Silicon Valley... was just going to go really go massively into politics.”
    — Sir Nick Clegg (17:24-18:44)
• AI & the Next Power Paradox:
  • “We as humans become, if you like, more passive recipients of both synthetically generated content, which is then automatically recommended to us.”
    — Sir Nick Clegg (19:28)
• On US–China rivalry and open source:
  • “You’ve got the world’s greatest autocracy... doing more to democratize the technology... competing over. And so I think at some point the American political and economic establishment will realize that they’re not going to win... on this current trajectory.”
    — Sir Nick Clegg (24:42)

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote Summary | |-----------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:59–03:34 | Clegg's background, journey from politics to tech | | 03:34–04:59 | Rise of algorithm-driven vs. human-driven platforms, power paradox explained | | 05:03–07:57 | The problem with network effects and power concentration | | 09:08–10:21 | Evidence and nuance on social media's effect on children/youth | | 14:20–16:04 | Reflections on Mark Zuckerberg’s leadership and Silicon Valley culture | | 17:24–18:44 | Why Clegg left Meta and concerns about tech/politics entanglement | | 19:28–20:51 | Shift towards synthetically generated, AI-driven content and its dangers | | 21:33–23:07 | Personalized AI, economic/technical barriers to access, US–China rivalry | | 23:07–25:41 | Clegg’s warnings about US strategy and open source paradox |

Tone & Style

The conversation is reflective, frank, and analytical—anchored in Clegg’s rare perspective as both a top politician and senior tech executive. The tone is thoughtful, world-weary at times, but ultimately seeking to introduce nuance in a field crowded by hype, fears, and doctrinal positions. Both interviewer and guest avoid simplistic answers, instead grappling with the messy, paradoxical realities of modern digital power.

Summary: Why Listen?

This episode offers a nuanced, insider view of the intersection between tech and politics at a moment of global transformation. Sir Nick Clegg sharpens the ongoing debate about social media, youth mental health, the concentration of digital power, and the looming changes AI will bring. He punctures myths about tech CEOs, warns governments not to cede responsibility, and urges listeners to resist zero-sum thinking in the coming era of AI.
Essentially, Clegg calls for informed, balanced approaches—not panicked reactions or blind faith in industry self-regulation—if society is to truly "save the internet."