Victor Glover, astronaut: We went into sci-fi

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Interview – Victor Glover, Astronaut: "We Went Into Sci-fi"

Date: July 5, 2026
Host: Paddy O'Connell, BBC World Service
Guest: Victor Glover, NASA Astronaut, Artemis 2 Crew Member

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Interview, astronaut Victor Glover discusses his experiences as a member of the Artemis 2 mission — humanity’s first crewed journey to the Moon in over 50 years. Glover shares profound insights into seeing Earth from deep space, the awe of witnessing a unique lunar eclipse, the significance of teamwork and global unity, and the philosophical shifts that come with space travel. He addresses future lunar and Martian exploration, diversity in space, and the lessons spaceflight offers for life and society back on Earth.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. A Sense of Wonder: Miracles in Space (01:45–02:35, 14:04–15:12)

• Glover describes the profound sense of wonder and awe experienced during the Artemis 2 mission and the power of those emotions to change perspectives on humanity and the planet.
  • Quote: "If I explain [these experiences] in detail to most people, they would summarize them as magic or a miracle. My advice is... it's that wonder and awe and amazement exist. And it's not just out there in the cosmos. It's here. Your story, my story. There's wonder and amazement in all of us." – Victor Glover (01:45)

2. The Experience of Leaving Earth for the Moon (03:44–06:01)

• Glover recounts the surprise and childlike joy of actually launching, despite years of training and simulations.
  • Quote: "We were giggling like school kids, like, it's really happening." – Victor Glover (03:57)
• Describes the physical sensations of launch, rocket separation ("like a car crash"), and the unique bond formed with the Orion spacecraft, which the crew affectionately named "Integrity".

3. Awe-Inspiring Lunar Sights and "Earthshine" (07:12–10:31)

• Details the crew's emotional experiences while traveling around the far side of the Moon, including witnessing an extended lunar eclipse and observing "Earthshine"—the Earth illuminating the Moon with a blue glow.
  • Quote: "I don't think our brains are evolved to understand what we're seeing. And I called Houston and I said, I think we've just gone into sci-fi." – Victor Glover (08:47)
• The moving moment of naming lunar craters, including one after the late Carol Taylor Wiseman; Glover recounts the tears and meaning attached to these moments.
  • Quote: "The one we named Carol... it was a very bright white crater. You could tell how new it was because it was a bright spot. And... he wasn't talking about the physical characteristics... he was talking about the Carol that he knew very well, that she was a bright spot. By that time, all of us were in tears." – Victor Glover (09:47)

4. The "Overview Effect" and Earth as a Shared Ship (02:41–03:27)

• Reflects on the perspective gained from seeing the whole Earth in one view and the vast emptiness of space, leading to thoughts about humanity’s shared journey and interconnectedness.
  • Quote: "We're on a spaceship and we're a crew, and I think that perspective is something we should think about more." – Victor Glover (03:26)

5. Teamwork, Collaboration, and Global Unity (15:12–16:17)

• Discusses how major missions unite people—not just crews, but millions watching from Earth—and draws lessons for addressing challenges collaboratively.
  • Quote: "Maybe we should think about that next time we want to argue over the little bits... Fix things, go for things, collaborate, get to destinations. Don't just argue about the launch pad." – Victor Glover & Paddy O'Connell (15:59–16:08)

6. Leadership Lessons from Senator John McCain (16:21–17:17)

• Glover recounts his relationship with the late Senator John McCain and how McCain’s charge and example influenced his leadership style.
  • Quote: "I do try to channel some of what he brought and his leadership and the kind of leader that he was was very instructive to the kind of leader that I want to be." – Victor Glover (17:13)

7. The Potential and Peril of Exploiting the Moon (17:17–18:33)

• Glover warns of the risks of reducing exploration to mere political objectives and insists on maintaining a "responsible presence" beyond Earth.
  • Quote: "If we make this Artemis campaign about political objectives, then when we achieve it, it'll be easy to ramp it down and turn our attention to something else." – Victor Glover (18:01)

8. The Path to Mars (18:33–21:20)

• Glover believes Mars is within reach in 20 years or less, with the Moon as a crucial testing ground for deep space travel.
  • Quote: "We were 25 years from going to Mars in 1972... Artemis 1 happened in 2022... I think we're 20 years or less from going to Mars." – Victor Glover (19:52)
• On Martian colonies and human return: NASA sees returning crews safely as the central measure of mission success; one-way, self-sustaining colonies remain a long-term goal.

9. Life Lessons: Space and Civic Responsibility (21:45–22:49)

• Glover reflects on the responsibility astronauts have as role models and agents of unification in divided times, invoking the metaphor of running a relay race for progress.
  • Quote: "I'm running a race, not a campaign... If we don't figure out who our team is and build up our team and value the team aspect, then we're going to just drop the baton because there's no one to pass it to." – Victor Glover (21:45)

10. Diversity and Representation in Space (23:20–24:58)

• Speaks candidly about the significance of participating as an African American astronaut and the broader meaning of representation, but emphasizes the ultimate goal is excellence and mission achievement.
  • Quote: "Little brown kids should also look at Christina and Reed and Jeremy and see a piece of themselves, if we're doing our jobs right... The goal is excellence. The goal is to accomplish these missions, to say we're going to do this and then to meet that standard." – Victor Glover (23:28–24:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We might treat each other differently and we might treat the planet differently. This place is special and the people who inhabit it." – Victor Glover (01:45)
• "We were giggling like school kids." – Victor Glover (03:57)
• "I think we've just gone into sci-fi." – Victor Glover (08:47)
• "Maybe we should think about that next time we want to argue over the little bits." – Victor Glover (15:59)
• "If we make this Artemis campaign about political objectives, then when we achieve it, it'll be easy to ramp it down and turn our attention to something else." – Victor Glover (18:01)
• "I'm running a race, not a campaign... this race requires us to receive the baton... and then to hand off this baton." – Victor Glover (21:45)
• "The goal is excellence. The goal is to accomplish these missions, to say we're going to do this and then to meet that standard." – Victor Glover (24:48)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:45 – Glover on wonder, awe, and treating each other/planet differently
• 02:41 – The "overview effect": seeing all of Earth from the Moon
• 03:54 – Emotional launch experience
• 05:25 – Physical sensation of rocket separation ("like a car crash")
• 06:13 – Relationship with the Orion capsule ("Integrity")
• 07:12–09:31 – Far side of moon, lunar eclipse, "Earthshine," naming craters
• 14:04 – Space as a catalyst for philosophy and worldview
• 16:21 – Lessons from working with John McCain
• 17:33 – Risks of lunar exploitation and importance of responsible presence
• 18:33 – The Moon as gateway to Mars; predictions for Martian missions
• 21:45 – Civic responsibility, running the "relay race" for progress
• 23:28 – Diversity and the deeper mission of space exploration

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Tone and Takeaways

Victor Glover’s tone is warm, humble, and philosophical, blending the factual with the poetic. The conversation frequently returns to major themes: the transformative nature of spaceflight, the necessity of global unity and collaboration, the importance of staying focused on humanity’s greater goals, and the responsibility of representation and leadership.

Listeners come away with a sense of awe at space exploration’s technical and emotional challenges, and a strong message about the need for empathy, shared purpose, and excellence both above and on Earth.

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Transcript

[Paddy O'Connell]

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[Paddy O'Connell]

Hello, I'm Paddy O' Connell and this is the interview from the BBC World Service. The best conversations coming out of the BBC. People shaping our world from all over the world.

[Victor Glover]

I want to get freedom.

[Paddy O'Connell]

I like that.

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Freedom.

[Paddy O'Connell]

A gender equal world would be a

[Victor Glover]

better world for men too. We need a ceasefire.

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We need healing.

[Victor Glover]

We need trust.

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[Victor Glover]

This is a war. The first thing that we want is the war to end.

[Paddy O'Connell]

For this episode, I speak to Artemis 2 astronaut Victor Glover. As part of the first mission to the moon in more than 50 years, he and his crewmates traveled further from Earth than any humans ever have. We discuss the extraordinary sights he witnessed on the journey, why he believes we're closer to reaching Mars than many think. And he reflects on how being in space has changed the way he thinks about humanity.

[Victor Glover]

The miracle of being where we were when we saw that eclipse, or of making surviving a launch or surviving re entry, going 40 times the speed of sound and still landing on the spot you're supposed to land in. All of those things are wonderful. If I explain them in detail to most people, they would summarize them as magic or a miracle. My advice is, if you trust me, if people value the words of astronauts, it's that wonder and awe and amazement exist. And it's not just out there in the cosmos. It's here. Your story, my story. There's wonder and amazement in all of us. And if we can just slow down and take the time to appreciate that, we might treat each other differently. And we might treat the planet differently. This place is special and the people who inhabit it, all of us.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Victor Glover.

[Victor Glover]

I lived on the International space station for six months, 167 days, and I saw the Earth. It was about this, like from my perspective, it was about where my elbow is to my elbow. And it always looked that way. Day, night, the place you flew over the ground changed, but it was always this size. And as we got far away from Earth, we pointed the windows back, and when we could see the entire disk of the Earth, this was on the first day, I could see all of Earth in one glance. That was profound. But what was more profound was seeing how much nothing on the space station. It was like equal Earth, nothing of space, and this was little Earth and lots of nothing. And I tell you, we're on a spaceship and we're a crew, and I think that perspective is something we should think about more.

[Paddy O'Connell]

You're telling me we, the human population,

[Victor Glover]

we, the human population, we. But, you know, Americans, British, but everyone,

[Paddy O'Connell]

you know, I want to get to the philosophical part, but I just want you to tell me what it's like to leave the Earth bound for the moon.

[Podcast Advertiser 1]

Well,

[Victor Glover]

interestingly, the moment we launched, no one was more surprised than the crew. You know, you wake up that day and you're prepared, but you don't expect

[Paddy O'Connell]

to launch because there's going to be a breakdown or someone's going to stop it.

[Victor Glover]

And we had a battery fault, and that was like, okay, that's the thing that's going to keep us. And the team worked it and they fixed it. And so. But when we launched, we were surprised. But, hey, we're going to the moon. You know, we better be on. But there's nothing like. We've done all the simulations, we've practiced everything from the science to the flying the spaceship to launch and landing. But when we launched and it was true that we were going to the moon, I will tell you, we are four professionals that were on a very serious mission, a very dangerous, risky mission. But we were giggling like school kids, like, it's really happening. And at one point, Jeremy was like, God, guys, I love this. I just have to say, I love this. He's the first. The one to go to space the first time, our rookie from Canada. And it was a very serious thing, and we were very focused on the mission, but we were also just blown

[Paddy O'Connell]

away listening to you. We've all been at the takeoff of a jet plane, 170 miles an hour. What speed are you doing vertically? And what does it feel like?

[Victor Glover]

You accelerate essentially continuously for almost 10 minutes. You're accelerating straight up. So you start at zero and, you know, we clear the tower going, you know, 100 miles an hour. At 8 minutes and 19 seconds or so, we are going 17,500 miles per hour. We're going fast enough to circle the entire globe in 90 minutes.

[Paddy O'Connell]

What's it like when your little capsule is completely separated from the mechanism that got you there?

[Victor Glover]

The rocket, it's this big rocket, you know, 250 plus feet long and this little spacecraft that's 20ft long. And there's a mass difference, a huge mass difference. And in the simulation you hear the sound of staging cha chunk and then you're, you know, moving, looking at the screens and the dials. The real thing felt like a car crash because the springs that pushed us away were so powerful. And the big rocket, it's so much bigger that the little Orion just ejected off. And the big rocket, you know, probably barely moved. And so when we started separated from the core stage, it was like we got rear ended.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Do you feel protective to the Orion? Is it like your first car? You know, do you think of it like your home? Do you think of it like your mother, your father? Do you learn to think of the Orion like a kind of protector?

[Victor Glover]

Yeah, it's interesting, no one has asked me that yet. And it's interesting because it is somewhere between like a first car or as a pilot, my favorite airplane, and I would say even a relative or a friend. We have a special relationship with that spacecraft, the real one, the one we flew that kept us alive for nine and a half days. We couldn't have survived this mission without Orion. But it also captured so many of the pictures that you saw. It had cameras on it externally. It provided us the water, the bathroom. And so we gave it a name. Integrity. And you'll hear us call each other. Integrity Crew. Integrity Crew introduced. And that word means so much more to us now. It is the name, it's almost like we talk about it almost like a person.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And it also tells us you wanted the mission to have meaning.

[Victor Glover]

This was not a flight very much

[Paddy O'Connell]

so this was a mission, a journey. And you went to the dark side of the moon. So you're at the point where you can't see anything, you can't see the sun.

[Victor Glover]

That was one of the more awe inspiring moments. I mean the human awe just we say that word, we say awesome so much.

[Paddy O'Connell]

We say it about, about a lovely tea cake.

[Victor Glover]

Yes, yeah. And that's probably a really good tea cake. But when we were behind, when we were on the farthest side of the moon and the Earth is way off in the distance, the Earth had gone by behind the moon. The Earth set and then the Earth rose And it went out of view. And then the sun comes in the distance from the Earth to the Sun. It's so far away that when we were at the Moon, we're essentially the same distance from the sun. So the sun still looks like it does in the sky from here, but the Moon is so much bigger because we're close and the sun goes behind the Moon. The moon appeared 35 times larger than the sun. And because of that, the eclipse wasn't instantaneous. It didn't like, start and then go away right away. It lasted for 20 minutes. When we took off our glasses, I. Our eyes were adjusting. And so first we saw a black hole. Then we could see this glow, a halo around the Moon. And then we could see stars in that halo. And then the last thing to come into view was this blue glow. And we could see craters, the surface of the Moon, but the sun is on the other side. So what was lighting the moon? It was Earth shine. It was the Earth, the light of the Earth reflecting off of the near side of the Moon. And we were just blown away. I said to one of my crewmates, just look at this. They floated up to the window, and two of them said, oh, my God. Oh, my God. And Reed, my crewmate, says, I don't think our brains are evolved to understand what we're seeing. And I called Houston and I said, I think we've just gone into sci fi. It's hard to describe what we were actually seeing. It was so amazing.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Except that you are describing it very vividly. And I think that phrase. You've just coined a phrase, I'm going to hear that, see it in movies. Earthshine.

[Victor Glover]

Earthshine.

[Paddy O'Connell]

That's going to be a big thing, that phrase you've just used.

[Victor Glover]

That was one of the most hard to believe things. I was in a spacecraft a quarter of a million miles from home, floating, right. And of all the unbelievable things happening, the blue glow on the Moon was one of the most amazing things to see the Earth lighting up the Moon, because you usually see things lit by the sun and, well, I guess it was reflecting the sun too.

[Paddy O'Connell]

You talked about the craters you could see. Commander Wiseman's late wife, Carol Taylor Wiseman, who passed away in 2020, the crew named a new lunar crater. Carol?

[Victor Glover]

Yes.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Were you there? Were you looking out of the window? Did you spot the crater?

[Victor Glover]

Yes. When humans see it in daylight, you get to name it. And so the Apollo astronauts, when they flew by that part of the moon, it was dark. And because of the day, we launched on a part of the moon that had never been seen in daylight, was in daylight. And. And so we named one Integrity and one Carol. The one we named Carol. It was new, it was fresh. And so it was a very bright white crater. You could tell how new it was because it was a bright spot. And that when Jeremy said those words, but he wasn't talking about the physical characteristics of the crater, he was talking about the Carol that he knew very well that she was a bright spot. That, I mean, by that time, all of us were in tears.

[Paddy O'Connell]

You're listening to the interview from the BBC World Service with me, Paddy o'.

[Victor Glover]

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[Paddy O'Connell]

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[Paddy O'Connell]

so when I met Victor Glover, it's not the first time I've touched the hand of a man who's been in space and shook him once warmly by the hand to thank him for giving me time and reflections. Years ago, as a young man, I met John Glenn, the pioneering American explorer of space. And he became a senator for Ohio. And I was working at the time in American government as an intern. I didn't have very much experience. I spoke to him, I shook his hand. I asked him about being above Earth and what it does to you. And also the strange link there is between astronauts running for office. It's obviously not the first time that we're going to ask Victor, I think, what his future may be. Anyway, the interesting thing to me was Victor, who's got this historic place now in space exploration, wanted to talk to me about John Glenn. What was he like? Where did I meet him? What did he say? And he asked to shake my hand, saying, I want to shake the hand of the man who shook John Glenn's hand. I said, no, no, Victor, I wanted to meet you. We wanted to meet you. It's your view we want. And I suppose I was bluntly just charmed by this man who had been all the way out into the heavens and retained a sort of humanity and humility about him. And I am intrigued. Having met John Glenn, I'm intrigued to think, does Victor Glover have a future in public life? And with that sort of charisma that you can hear for yourself, I suppose I'm going to have to say the chances are that he has a big role down here on Earth. Okay, let's return to my conversation with Victor Glover. I'm just wondering what it does to a man. I mean, did it change your politics, your philosophy, your religion? Have you got advice for us based on what you saw?

[Victor Glover]

Well, I think space is like a catalyst. It can encourage a thing, but it's not consumed in the thing. And it mostly nudges. It moves everyone, I think. But it can move you in either direction. It can move you closer to God, further away from God. And so I would say the miracle of being where we were when we saw that eclipse, or of making surviving a launch or surviving re entry, going 40 times the speed of sound and still landing on the spot you're supposed to land in. All of those things are wonderful, Matt. If I explain them in detail to most people, they. They would summarize them as magic or a miracle. My advice is, if you trust me, if people value the words of astronauts, it's that wonder and awe and amazement exist. And it's not just out there in the cosmos. It's here we. Your story, my story. There's wonder and amazement in all of us. And if we can just slow down and take the time to appreciate that, we might treat each other differently and we might treat the planet differently. This place is special. And the people who inhabit it all. The earlier we that I was talking about, all of us, but we're always arguing. Yeah.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And then I go into my little bit, which is only one atom away. When you look at it from space, it's only one atom away. But then I hate your little bit. And that's the atom next to my little bit.

[Victor Glover]

That's the thing we can choose. So here's the thing that I find amazing. People ask us as the crew to come talk about the mission. But when we show up, what's obvious is during the mission, it wasn't just us doing something different. It was the whole world, the countries that we came from. And even here in the uk, people were telling me how they were glued to the tv, their kids would drag them to the tv. That is us doing something different. And for me, we call things moonshots. When humans do something great, maybe we need to think about that more. What the crew did, we understand that. But what the rest of the world did, that's different. And maybe we should think about that next time we want to argue over the little bits.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Fix things to fix things, go for things, collaborate, get to destinations. Don't just argue about the launch pad.

[Victor Glover]

Yes, take us, go do something amazing. And on the way, we're going to disagree, but that's just the cost of doing business.

[Paddy O'Connell]

But the guy I disagree with may be the best scientist to help me get there.

[Victor Glover]

Yes.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So a guy who encapsulated a lot of across the aisle ism is Senator John McCain, the late senator. And you worked for him. Do you feel that you're talking with his language when you tell me about kind of collaboration and cooperation?

[Victor Glover]

I hope so. You know, he. I learned a lot watching him work and I have a ton of respect for him and I wish he was around when I launched my first time. I wanted him to be at the launch. He gave me a charge when I got selected. I was working for him when I got chosen to be an astronaut and. And he gave me a charge and he said, go. And I want you to help NASA fly American spaceships. And it's amazing. Some of my colleagues fly spacecraft made in other countries. I've flown twice and both of my missions were on American spacecraft. And I'm very proud of that. And I think I do try to channel some of what he brought and his leadership and the kind of leader that he was was very instructive to the kind of leader that I want to be.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Let me ask you about the stars and stripes on the moon. Do you think that the Moon could be exploited by nation states in the future? Are we going to have a space race for the mineral rights on the moon? You're going to take a glass of water.

[Victor Glover]

No, no. Can the Moon be exploited? It can. And so, you know, we talk about a sustainable presence around the moon, something you'll hear us crew say is also a responsible presence. It could be exploited. So here's what I will say. That reality is already there. We know that there's some geopolitical tensions, but if we think about why we ended the Apollo program, at the end of the day, the simple answer is politics. We achieved a political objective.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Get to the moon.

[Victor Glover]

If we make this Artemis campaign about political objectives, then when we achieve it, it'll be easy to ramp it down and turn our attention to something else. I'll say the NASA mission here, we explore the unknown in air and space. We innovate for the benefit of humanity and we inspire the world through discovery. If we make that the mission, as we learn and turn the unknown into the known, there's new unknown beyond that. That's the mission. And if we focus on that, we don't get to drop the ball as easily as we did for the Apollo

[Paddy O'Connell]

program and going to Mars. Are we going to use the moon to get to Mars and how soon? I spoke to Tom Hanks, who's obsessed about this, I love Tom Hanks. And he said to me, patty, people are going to get conceived on the moon. In fact, he used a different phrase to that.

[Victor Glover]

Yeah, I've heard him tell that, and I think he's right. He is right. At some point that will be the case. I don't like the word using the moon. The moon is already a waypoint on the way to Mars. We're learning how to fly in deep space again. One of the things we learned on this mission, not just how to make the spacecraft better, we've learned some lessons. Our deep space network, the satellites, stations at work to support communication with those assets that are really far from Earth. That needs to be upgraded.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Do we need people born on the moon to get to Mars?

[Victor Glover]

Do we need that? No. But is that likely to happen eventually? Very likely. If we spend a lot of time there, at some point, it won't just be NASA folks, it'll be people that go because they choose to just like cruise ships and airplanes. Now it's not just the military and the postal service like it was in the beginning. Mars is going to happen. And here's the point I wanted to make. We were 25 years from going to Mars in 1972 when we left the moon, when Gene Cernan was the last person to walk on the moon. We've been 25 years since because we stopped going deep space.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So we caught up.

[Victor Glover]

Artemis 1 happened in 2022. It's 2026 now. So I think we're 20 years or less from going to Mars.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And on Mars is success. A human colony and do those people know they're never coming off Mars?

[Podcast Advertiser 3]

Success.

[Victor Glover]

We are not done figuring out what that mission is going to look like. We've got objectives, we got plans, but as we learn more about living on the moon, we're going to adapt those plans. Success is saying this is what we're going to do and then doing that. And for NASA, that involves bringing them home safely. My favorite part of all of this mission was splashdown. So if those crew members launch, they know that they have a safe return. If we get to the point where we can sustain human life there indefinitely, that is a huge barrier. We will get there eventually, but that's what's going to take a generation to do. Then one day there will be a trip one way and that might be safety. At some point this will change. But as of today, every space mission's ultimate destination is Earth.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And is that possible with Mars?

[Victor Glover]

It has to be. We won't send the first group without a possibility of getting them safely back to Earth.

[Paddy O'Connell]

They might be a lot older by the time they come back.

[Victor Glover]

They will be, they will be. It may be a two year mission, it may be a five year mission. I mean the trip, one way to get there and then to get back without the moon being on the other side of the sun. It's six to nine months of one way travel. So that just the trip is a year to a year and a half.

[Paddy O'Connell]

I told you when I met you that I'd met Senator John Glenn, who turned his astronaut life into his pioneer life into politics. In America. You're angry, you're polarized. You've got this big problem in the United States of America. You've asked me to zoom out and see the whole world. Do you think you're gonna have to come down to Earth, Victor, and run?

[Victor Glover]

Well, I think I'm running. I'm running, but I'm running a race, not a campaign. Right I'm running a race, and I recognize very clearly to me, it's a relay race. You can't win a relay race by yourself. And so this race requires us to receive the baton from the person running before you, to run your best leg, and then to hand off this baton. And I'm running this leg now. But if we don't figure out who our team is and build up our team and value the team aspect of this, then we're going to. We're going to just drop the baton because there's no one to pass it to.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So America is in a perilous state, then.

[Victor Glover]

Babies are higher, likely to survive when they're born. Teenagers are having less babies. More people can read now than ever in history. The sky has not fallen, but our choices, our actions, and our inaction are going to drive us to where we're going. So it's not a perilous state. It's a state that we've let it get to, and we have to take responsibility. We did this, and let's drive us to a better place.

[Paddy O'Connell]

The sky's not fallen. You've been through the sky. You've been up through the sky.

[Victor Glover]

Literally.

[Paddy O'Connell]

The younger Victor. If I said, Victor, we would you go and live on Mars? You'd have to go for fly for nine months. You have to live there for two years. What would you say?

[Victor Glover]

Younger Victor might have said yes, because he had never flown in space. The one who's been there and spent six months in space and two years on aircraft carriers away from home, by the way, would say no, thank you. In that relay race, I've run my leg. I want to hand the baton off to a very strong next generation. I want them to be ready, and so my job now is to help get them ready.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Can I ask if it's important to you? Do you represent anyone? Because you don't look like a lot of the other people who went to the moon. Is that important to you?

[Victor Glover]

Oh, very. Of course. You know, there are young people that see themselves because of my role. You know, little brown kids. But you know what? Little girls should look at me as well and see the connection to what they do, because I try to honor the human dignity in all of them. Little brown kids should also look at Christina and Reed and Jeremy and see a piece of themselves if we're doing our jobs right. But there are kids who maybe connect to this only because I'm there or only because Christina is there or only because a Canadian is there. And so I value that. I also value my grandfather's service in the Korean conflict in a time when it was very challenging for a man who looked like me to serve his country but not have the full rights of being an American citizen. I value Ed Dwight. He could have been an Apollo astronaut. He could have been the first man who looks like me to go to the moon. But also, like I talked about the space race. If our objective is only to beat China, when we do, it'll be easy to drop the ball if we only end this conversation at flying men of color and women to the moon. When we accomplish that, when we land on the moon with this diverse crew, it'll be easy to drop the ball. The goal is excellence. The goal is to accomplish these missions, to say we're going to do this and then to meet that standard. And if we focus on the right things, it will be a lot harder for us to lose interest. So it's important to me, but it is not the mission. It's not the only thing. I'm glad we did it. I'm glad crews are more diverse because our office is more diverse. But we're not only flying for that reason.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Thank you for listening to the interview. You'll find more in depth conversations on the Interview wherever you get your BBC podcasts, including conversations with with Google's CEO Sundar Pichai, as well as interviews with the former Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard and many others. Until the next time. Bye for now.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Podcast Advertiser 1]

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