Vitali Klitschko, Mayor of Kyiv: ‘We're fighting to survive’

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Interview – Vitali Klitschko, Mayor of Kyiv: “We're fighting to survive”

Podcast: The Interview
Host: Nick Robinson, BBC World Service
Guest: Vitali Klitschko, Mayor of Kyiv
Date: January 30, 2026
Episode Theme:
A candid conversation with Kyiv's mayor, Vitali Klitschko, on leadership during war, the resilience of Ukrainians under siege, and the shifting nature of Ukraine’s fight for survival, independence, and a European future.

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Main Episode Overview

This episode features Vitali Klitschko, former world heavyweight boxing champion and the Mayor of Kyiv, joining Nick Robinson via video link from his city’s embattled administration. The discussion covers Ukraine’s endurance through years of Russian invasion, the increasing hardships facing Kyiv’s citizens, Klitschko’s motivations for entering politics, and his vision for Ukraine’s future — all delivered with directness and emotion. Throughout, listeners gain unique insight into his leadership philosophy, the challenges of wartime governance, and the personal stakes for him and his people.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Target: Kyiv and the Ukrainian Will to Resist

[02:46–03:44]

• Klitschko argues that Putin's true aim is not just territory, but to “break the will to fight” among Ukrainians by targeting Kyiv, the nation’s heart.

  • Quote: “The main goal of Putin… the main target [is] heart of this country, the Capital of Ukraine… to destroy resistance... to bring the population in [a] depressive mood.” — Klitschko [02:46]

• Maintaining stability in Kyiv is crucial for the rest of the country.

  • Quote: “From stability in [the] heart of the country depends stability in every region in Ukraine. That’s why we are responsible not just for our hometown [but the] whole country.” [03:18]

2. Surviving the War – and the Cold

[03:49–06:15]

• Constant missile, drone, and ballistic attacks have killed over 300 civilians and damaged nearly 2,000 buildings in Kyiv.

  • Quote: “Every night Russians try to descend ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, kamikaze drones to our hometown… From beginning the war in our city killed more than 300 citizens, more than 30 children.” — Klitschko [03:49]

• The ongoing winter, with temperatures below -20°C, threatens basic survival if infrastructure fails. Klitschko urges citizens without access to stable utilities to temporarily leave the city.

  • Quote: “If you have friends, relatives somewhere outside… where you have basic services… please do that. It’s not so much pressure to our infrastructure and make our job much easier.” [05:24]

• Admitting the difficulty, Klitschko describes this as “just [the] worst advice to temporary leaving the city for this cold period of time if you don’t have services” [06:22]

3. War of Attrition and Psychological Pressure

[07:12–08:51]

• The war has shifted to one of attrition, not quick conquest.
• Klitschko sees psychological warfare as a key Russian tactic: persistent bombardment aims to wear down civilian resolve.

4. From Boxing to Politics: A Tougher Fight

[08:51–09:42]

• Politics is harder than boxing, says Klitschko. He entered public life to transform Ukraine into a “second Germany or second California,” seeing the country as part of “the European family.”
  • Quote: “I want to build a second Germany or second California from Ukraine… to make a democratic country. The main goal of Putin [is] to bring Ukraine back to [the] Russian empire.” [09:03]

5. Soviet Upbringing to European Vision

[09:46–10:52]

• Klitschko recounts his Soviet “propaganda” upbringing and how traveling during perestroika revealed another world.
  • Quote: “My father was officer… in Soviet army. I was prepared… fighting against Americans, against capitalistic system. We truly believe in this propaganda… But many years later… I told [my father]: it’s everything what we listen from our media – it’s liar, it’s not true.” [09:46]

6. Why Stay? Attachment to Homeland

[11:19–12:26]

• Despite a successful international career, Klitschko’s bond to Ukraine was unbreakable.
  • Quote: “It’s my homeland. It’s very difficult to explain... this country will be lifelong in my heart.” [11:19]
• Tells a story of an elderly man returning to Ukraine to die “because they want to be together with his parents, with relatives… it's a very sensitive connection.” [11:19]

7. Leadership in Wartime: No Elections Until Peace

[12:49–13:25]

• Rejects the idea of elections during war; says intra-national competition would weaken Ukraine.
  • Quote: “Election during the war, it's poison for the country... First of all, we have to bring the peace back… then we can talk about election or political ambition.” [12:49]

8. Relationship with Zelensky and National Unity

[13:25–13:59]

• Klitschko and Zelensky “are not friends,” but urges unity over division in crisis.

9. The Prospect of Victory – and the Costs of Peace

[14:45–17:11]

• Both sides are locked in a struggle with no end in sight.
• Klitschko is grateful for Western support but acknowledges that “alone, it’s very difficult.” [16:14–16:57]
• On peace talks, he insists guarantees must be concrete; otherwise Russia could “take a break for a short time and start the war again.” [17:11]

10. No Compromise On Territorial Integrity

[18:14–19:17]

• Klitschko refuses compromise on ceding Ukrainian territory as a peace deal.

  • Quote: “To occupy a big part of Ukraine… and accept this territory as part of Russia… it’s not compromise.” [18:39]

• Fears phased concessions would only embolden further Russian aggression: “Where’s the guarantee? The Russians make short break and starting the war again… then accept the next part of our territory as [new Russian] territory.” [19:17]

11. The “Trump Factor,” American Support, and Geopolitics

[20:01–21:45]

• On inviting Donald Trump to Kyiv: “It will be very strong signal if Trump comes... It’s a strong signal to Russia.” [20:14]
• Business ties aren’t a priority now: “Right now, the main question [is] not about the business, about the peace.” [20:49]
• On U.S. involvement: Ukraine’s fate impacts the stability of all Europe.

12. On Personal Connections and Vision for Ukraine’s Future

[21:45–24:11]

• Klitschko and Trump knew each other from boxing days, but are not friends: “I can say we are friends. We know the shows, we talk jazz.” [22:35]
• Dreams for Kyiv and Ukraine: A thriving, green, European city with great potential.
  • Quote: “Kyiv is unique… very green… we have a lot of potential to develop our hometown. I enjoy my job to change life.” [23:06]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We fighting to survive in our hometown, in our country. And the same time we fighting for our future, for our independence…” — Klitschko [04:36]
• “Politics harder [than boxing]? To be honest… Before I was a little bit naive… But the main goal of Putin is to bring Ukraine back to the Russian Empire… We don’t want back to USSR.” — Klitschko [09:03]
• “Election during the war, it's poison for the country.” — Klitschko [12:49]
• “It’s not about just Ukrainian people. It’s whole Europe… a geopolitical question.” — Klitschko [21:20]

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Key Timestamps

• 02:46 — Klitschko on Putin's real target: Kyiv, and the goal to break Ukrainian resistance.
• 03:49 — The impact of daily attacks: civilian deaths and infrastructural destruction.
• 05:24 — Advising citizens to temporarily leave Kyiv due to cold and destroyed infrastructure.
• 09:03–09:46 — Comparing the challenges of politics vs. boxing, and his European ambitions.
• 11:19 — Why Klitschko remains in Ukraine despite easier options abroad.
• 12:49 — Risks of elections during wartime.
• 14:45 — Klitschko’s view on the media, unity, and reporting on suffering.
• 16:14 — Four years of resistance against Russia: gratitude for international support.
• 18:39 — Refusal to concede territory and compromise on Ukraine’s borders.
• 20:14 — The symbolism of a potential Trump visit to Kyiv.
• 23:06 — Klitschko’s vision for Kyiv’s future.

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Tone and Style

Klitschko speaks with a blend of determination, urgency, and pride. His language is direct, sometimes emotional, marked by occasional grammatical slips but always clear in intent. Nick Robinson’s questioning is probing yet respectful, drawing out both personal reflection and political assessment.

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Final Summary

Vitali Klitschko, as Kyiv’s mayor, embodies Ukraine’s struggle for not just survival, but dignity and European integration. He details the daily horrors of war and the psychological strategies of his adversary, but also the unbreakable attachment he and many others feel to their homeland. He accepts the hardship of difficult decisions—such as advising citizens to temporarily evacuate—and calls for unity, resilience, and unwavering commitment to Ukraine’s independence. His closing vision is of a revived, modern city and a democratic European nation: “I enjoy my job to change life.” [23:06]

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This summary captures the core content and most memorable moments of the BBC World Service interview, omitting all advertisements and non-content sections for maximum clarity and continuity.

Transcript

[BBC Podcast Advertiser]

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[Helena Merriman]

If journalism is the first draft of history, what happens if that draft is flawed? In 1999, four Russian apartment buildings were bombed, hundreds killed. But even now we still don't know for sure who did it. It's a mystery that sparked chilling theories. I'm Helena Merriman and in a new BBC series, I'm talking to the reporters who first covered this story. What did they miss the first time? The History Bureau Putin and the apartment bombs. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nick Robinson]

Hello, I'm BBC presenter Nick Robinson and this is the interview from the BBC World Service. The best conversations coming out of the BBC People shaping our world from all over the world. If you're not a little bit afraid, then you're not paying attention. We have never seen a people so united.

[Helena Merriman]

Do not make that boat crossing. Do not make that journey.

[Nick Robinson]

Being born in America, feeling American, having people treat me like I'm not. We're more popular than populism for this interview, I meet the mayor of Kyiv, Vitaly Klitschko, via video link from his office. Born behind the iron curtain in 1971, he's arguably best known as a former heavyweight boxing world champion, as well as the older brother of fellow heavyweight boxing world champ Wladimir. After making his name in the ring during the 1990s and 2000s, Vitaly hung up his gloves following a series of injuries when his native Ukraine endured political upheaval through the Orange Revolution. When hundreds of thousands took to the streets to protest against Russian electoral interference, Vitaly's attentions turned to the political arena. Following a short stint in the Ukrainian parliament, where he aligned with pro Europeans, Vitaly was elected mayor of Ukraine's capital Kyiv in 2014 after heavily campaigning against corruption. But his greatest challenge in politics, and indeed even greater than becoming a world champion boxer, came when Vladimir Putin ordered the full scale Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

The main goal of Putin it's not Donetsk, Lugansk or Krim. The main goal and main target heart of this country, the Capital of Ukraine. And that's why the Russians sent we have so much attack to our hometown. The reason to destroy resistance of Ukrainian to bring the population in depressive mood. Yeah. The main goal of of Putin to break the will to fight.

[Nick Robinson]

And you worry that he might succeed.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

That's why we working day and night. And also here, also the front to make stability in capital of Ukraine. Because from stability in heart of the country in capital depends stability in every region in Ukraine. And that's why we are responsible not just for our hometown. We're responsible for who whole country.

[Nick Robinson]

Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Vitaly Klutchko.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

Every evening we keep our finger cross for our air defense. Because right now it's a lot of depend from our military, air forces air defense. Because every night Russians try to descend ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, kamikaze drones to our hometown and destroyed life of our citizens. From beginning the war in our city killed more than 300 citizens, more than 30 children from ballistic missiles from explosion what have our city. I talking just about civilian in our hometown and a lot of damages. Almost 2000 apartment buildings was destroyed in our hometown. And it's huge challenges. I'm actually right now almost 12 years mayor of Kyiv. I never expect we have so big challenges in this position. We fighting to survive in our hometown, in our country. And the same time we fighting for our future, for our independence, fighting to.

[Nick Robinson]

Survive now because of a new enemy, because of the cold. I was looking a few days ago, it was below minus 20. I think that is the forecast for next week as well. You've told people to leave the city. Is that what's necessary now?

[Vitaly Klitschko]

We are responsible for services to the people in our hometown. I want to remind Kiev, biggest city in East Europe. 3.5 million million citizens in our hometown. And we're responsible for services. And if Russia destroyed our infrastructure and try to freezing people to let people living without electricity, heating without water. If we will be not available to give the basic services to everyone. I asking to our citizens, if you have friends, relatives somewhere outside of the city where you have basic services, heating water, please do that. It's not so much pressure to our infrastructure and make our job much easier.

[Nick Robinson]

How did you feel as mayor of Ukraine's capital city, having to advise people to leave?

[Vitaly Klitschko]

It's not. I give advice temporarily for this cold period of time. And actually my advice. If you don't have services and you have another option, please use them. But anyway, is the main goal of Russians of Putin. They have an idea they don't need us Ukrainian. They need property. They need territory of Ukraine. The best dream. We leave some to another country, but we stay. We fighting. We fighting for our future. And it's just worth advice to temporary leaving the city for this cold period of time. If you don't have services for a long time.

[Nick Robinson]

The analysts said that Russia was losing this war because after four years they have not taken the territory that they want to have. Do you worry that this is a new war, A war of attrition in which they try to persuade the people of Ukraine that it is not worth fighting anymore?

[Vitaly Klitschko]

Yes, of course. The clear answer from beginning. I not understand where the reason to fighting against civilians. But the main goal of Putin it's not Donetsk, Lugansk or Krym. The main goal and main target heart of this country, the capital of Ukraine. And that's why the Russians sent we have so much attack to our hometown. The reason to destroy resistance of Ukrainian to bring the population in depressive mood. Yeah. Is the main goal of Putin to break the will to fight.

[Nick Robinson]

And do you worry that he might succeed?

[Vitaly Klitschko]

That's why we working day and night. And also here also the front to make stability in capital of Ukraine. Because from stability in heart of the country and capital depends stability in every region in Ukraine. And that why we are responsible not just for our hometown. We're responsible for whole country. And that why we fighting is big challenge. A lot of challenges for us. And we have to show the power and united our activity to fix every challenges what we have right now.

[Nick Robinson]

Now many people know you first and foremost for being a boxer, for being the world heavyweight champion. Politics harder or easier than boxing.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

To be honest, I am not first day in politics. I am already 12 years as mayor of Kyiv of capital of Ukraine. Before I was a little bit naive because I want to build a second Germany or second California from Ukraine. Is to make our country part of European family. To make a democratic country. Because the main goal of Putin to bring Ukraine back to Russian empire. We was in Russia in Soviet empire. And we don't want back to ussr. We see our future as part of European family. We fighting for our future.

[Nick Robinson]

You grew up of course in the Soviet Union. You know what this is like.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

I know that I came from communist family. My father was officer of air force, officer in Soviet army. And I was prepared and growing up with ideas we have to fighting against Americans against capitalistic system. Because they want to occupy us to make from us slaves. And we truly believe in this propaganda. What we listen Every day. But many years later, if perestroika came, I have a chance to travel outside of the country. And if I come back, I have interesting discussion with my father, who truly believe on communistic system. And I told him, listen, father, it's everything what we live listen from our media. It's liar, it's not true, it's life quality. It's in capitalistic world. It's pretty well, the people is happy, they have a lot of services, they have a lot of option. The system is not so bad as we listen years long.

[Nick Robinson]

I'm interested. What made you come back to Ukraine? You had made a fortune as a boxer, some say $60 billion. You had lived there, you had brought up your children in the United States. You knew Europe well and love you say Germany, for example. What made you return to your country? Were you not tempted to say, I'm better off making a new life elsewhere.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

It's my homeland. It's my homeland. It's very difficult to explain. Explain the feeling. I grown up here, I have Ukrainian mentality. I have a lot of friends. I growing up in this country, this country will be lifelong in my heart. And that why I feel me comfortable in my hometown, in my home country. And yes, of course, the lives in Germany or United States, in Los Angeles was much better. But it's different feeling. Explain some interesting story. I meet some man, we fly together in the plane, we sit together. Old men, they spend lifelong in Europe, in Canada. And they fly back to Ukraine. I was shocked to die, to die. Because they want to be together with his parents, with relatives. And it's homeland. It's difficult, very sensitive connection.

[Nick Robinson]

And that's what you fight for now. Now it's almost 20 years, isn't it, since you first fought an election to be mayor of Kiev. You fought a presidential election, or you almost did back in 2014. You stood aside. Do you still think that having elections before peace would be poison for our homeland? That's what you said in the past.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

Every election is competition. Competition between political parties in the same time. When we have enem enemies, where we defend our country to make fight inside the country is can destroy the country from inside. And that why it's bad idea, not smart idea to do it. Election during the war, it's poison for the country. And that's why first of all, we have to bring the peace back to the country. And just after that we can talk about election or political ambition. Right now it's not right time to talk about that.

[Nick Robinson]

It's no secret that you and President Zelensky are not friends. What should we talk of you as? Are you rivals? Are you enemies?

[Vitaly Klitschko]

No, it's we from different parties and always was not easy relationship between central government and local government. We have to be united and defend our country to make senergy to fighting against each other. It's not smart, especially in this difficult situation.

[Nick Robinson]

You're listening to the interview from the BBC World Service.

[Helena Merriman]

If journalism is the first draft of history, what happens if that draft is flawed? In 1999, four Russian apartment buildings were bombed, hundreds killed. But even now we still don't know for sure who did it. It's a mystery that sparked chilling theories. I'm Helena Merriman and in a new BBC series, I'm talking to the reporters who first covered this story. What did they miss the first time? The History Bureau Putin and the apartment bombs. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nick Robinson]

Vitaly Klitschko used to be a tour guide to his home city of Kyiv. He is now its mayor. I visited that city only once. I arrived just two days before the full scale attack launched by Vladimir Putin back in February 2022. He said to me that it was only when you'd seen the city, when you'd witnessed what it was going through, that you really had an idea of what was at stake. That, he says, is very different from seeing it on the TV news, listening to radio, or looking at images online or in a newspaper. This is a man who is not comfortable, not comfortable at all with his own president, President Zelensky. But in this interview, you could sense he was determined not to show too much of that disagreement, to present a united face to the world for ukra. For now at least, one day he might be the man who replaces him. Ok, let's return to my conversation with Vitaly Klitschko. One difference is that in boxing you almost always knocked out your opponents and you were never knocked out. Isn't the truth that in this war it's hard to see there being a winner, isn't it? It is hard to see either Ukraine knocking out Putin or Putin knocking out Ukraine.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

We actually fighting against Russia, successfully fighting Putin. Do you remember? I remember everyone in beginning this war. 22. A lot of world experts give to Ukraine couple of days, maybe a couple of weeks to fighting against one of the strongest and biggest army in the world, Russian army. But we successfully defend our homeland already four years. I want to say thank you very much to everyone who support Ukraine, because the support of Ukraine is very Important alone. It's very difficult to do that. And that's why we very thankful to support and to help from our partners.

[Nick Robinson]

Now we get more talks. Mayor Klitschko, talks between Russia and Ukraine and the United States. Are you hopeful that those talks will produce any result? Is there any point in them?

[Vitaly Klitschko]

It's not easy task. The question of we're talking about the peace. If you go to the street and talking to the people in the street, they asking to everyone which biggest wish you have? And everyone tell you exactly the same answer. The war. We dream of the peace and the war had to be stopped. But we're talking about the peace. But the peace condition. It's very important to have guarantee because Russians take the break for a short time and starting the war again. The peace guarantee. First point, the second point. We have to save our national interest in our independency, in our wish to be the part of European family and also for question of territorial integrity. We have a lot of question. And this negotiation. I'm not involved in this negotiation, but it's very important to give the answer, clear answer for every question.

[Nick Robinson]

What I mean to each of those areas. You want a clear answer. Let me ask you about the most difficult one, which is territory. Steve Witkoff, who is Donald Trump's envoy, he says we've got it down to one issue, land. There is no compromise though, is there? At the moment you want to keep Ukrainian land, Putin wants to take it.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

It's a difficult question to occupy a big part of Ukraine and all this compromise and never accept the territory as part of Ukraine and accept this territory of part of Russia. My personal point of view, it's not compromise. We have to talk about that and to find solution between different points of view. I mean, Ukrainian side and Russian side.

[Nick Robinson]

You might have to accept in the short term that Russia continues to occupy that land.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

If we're talking about our terrible integrity and to accept it's not more Ukraine, it's Russia. Where's the guarantee? The Russians make short break and starting the war again. Make next step occupied more territory. And after that told the solution to accept the next part of our territory as territory of Ukraine. It's also not secret. Putin never accept Ukraine as independent country. They told Ukraine was always part of Russia. We don't want back to ussr. We're independent country and we see our future as part of European family.

[Nick Robinson]

There's a third party in this talks. President Trump and his envoy, Steve Witkoff. You invited the president to visit you in Kiev. Does he say that he might come.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

It will be very strong signal if Trump come to Kiev. President of United States in Kiev. It's a strong signal to Russia.

[Nick Robinson]

Have you ever talked to him or his team?

[Vitaly Klitschko]

I talked to member of of team from Trump about invitation. Yes, of course. We'll be very happy. We will be very happy to see president of United States in our hometown.

[Nick Robinson]

Do you trust him? Many people think the talks in Moscow are not about Ukraine. They're about American property deals and financial deals.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

We will be ready to do it business with United States and from business case from both sides. We have to find the best way for United States, for Ukraine. And why not ready to talk about that. But right now, the main question not about the business, about the peace. Peace not just in Kiev, peace not just in Ukraine. Because I want to remind Ukraine was one of the largest country in Europe. And the stability in one of the largest countries in Europe can bring the stability in whole region. And that's why this peace we not just Ukrainian need that it's whole Europe is a question, geopolitical question, Not a question just Ukrainian people.

[Nick Robinson]

Do you think Donald Trump would find it easier to deal with a former professional boxer than a comedian?

[Vitaly Klitschko]

We know the shadows and we meet each other before many times. And Donald Trump was in boxing hall as audience by Taj Mahal in his arena in Atlantic City. And we know each other and in in pastime as president. If Donald Trump became the position as president of United States, we doesn't have a chance to talk to him. Vladimir talked to him couple of times.

[Nick Robinson]

Vladimir, your brother we should say, not Vladimir Putin. My.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

My brother Vladimir? Yeah. Vladimir.

[Nick Robinson]

Yeah. Just to be clear, that was who met and spoke to Donald Trump alongside you. Did you become friends with Donald Trump then, before the war, when you were fighting in the ring?

[Vitaly Klitschko]

I can say we are friends. We know the shows, we talk to jazz. We meet a couple of times.

[Nick Robinson]

You still got his phone number?

[Vitaly Klitschko]

No.

[Nick Robinson]

Maybe I get him to call you. We'll see what we can do. You've talked passionately about how you want Ukraine to be a European nation. Your first job I was reading was a tour guide in your city in Kyiv when you were just 16 years old. Imagine a future 10, 20 years. What do you want your city, what do you want your country to be like when this is all over?

[Vitaly Klitschko]

To be honest, I use my skills as tour guide when people come into my hometown. It's many people coming to Kyiv and sometimes afraid the wild East. And I'm enjoy really to present the European city and everyone actually was surprised. How beautiful city, how, how peaceful people friendly people gas friendly people living in our hometown. And Kiev is unique city. It's very green city. We have a lot of parks. We have huge, huge river. We have a lot of islands. We have a lot of potential to develop our hometown. And I have a job as mayor of Kyiv to change. I enjoy my job to change life.

[Nick Robinson]

I was last in Kyiv in February 2022. I hope to be back in more peaceful times, perhaps when I return. Mayor Klitschko, you could be my tour guide.

[Vitaly Klitschko]

I promise I will be happy to do that.

[Nick Robinson]

Thank you for listening to the interview. For more compelling conversations, search for the interview. Wherever you get your BBC podcasts, you'll find episodes from Columbia's President Gustav Petro, free speech campaigner Maria ressa, and the UK's ambassador to Russia, Nigel Casey, and many, many more. Until the next time, goodbye for now.

[Helena Merriman]

If journalism is the first draft of history, what happens if that draft is flawed? In 1999, four Russian apartment buildings were bombed, hundreds killed. But even now, we still don't know for sure who did it. It's a mystery that sparked chilling theories. I'm Helena Merriman, and in a new BBC series, I'm talking to the reporters who first covered this story. What did they miss the first time? The History Bureau, Putin and the apartment bombs. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcast.