Yurii Tokar: Russia deployed Kenyans to death zone

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Interview – Yurii Tokar: Russia Deployed Kenyans to Death Zone

Podcast: The Interview
Host: BBC World Service (Wahiga Moura)
Guest: Yurii Tokar, Ukraine’s Ambassador to Kenya
Date: May 12, 2026
Episode Theme:
A candid discussion with Ambassador Yurii Tokar focusing on explosive allegations that Russia has recruited and deployed Kenyan nationals, as well as other African citizens, to the most dangerous zones of the Ukraine war. The episode delves into the diplomatic aftermath, wider humanitarian implications, the “I Want to Live” desertion project, and Ukraine-Africa relations.

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Main Theme & Purpose

The episode centers on Ambassador Tokar’s claim that Russia has coerced Kenyans into frontline military service in Ukraine’s conflict zones, particularly just before a key Kenyan diplomatic visit to Moscow. The interview explores how these actions affect diplomatic relations, the safety of African nationals, and official responses from the Kenyan and Russian governments. Wahiga Moura investigates both the facts and the uncertainty driving this high-tension situation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Allegations of Russian Recruitment of Kenyans

• Ambassador Tokar’s Claim: Russia deployed conscripted Kenyans to frontline “death zones,” allegedly to cover up any trace of their presence before Kenya’s foreign minister arrived in Moscow.
• Quote:

  “So they were sent to the front line, to the most dangerous parts, to the most dangerous places with aim to do the job and to disappear.” – Tokar (03:20)

• Verification:
  • Russian Embassy in Kenya previously denied government involvement, labeling such accusations as “propaganda.”
  • Kenyan authorities stated they are unaware of verified cases but committed to citizen safety.

2. Impact of War on Africa

• Humanitarian Effects:
  • Food prices globally, especially in Africa, have risen due to the conflict.

  “The prices for food all over the world had grown significantly and it again influenced people in Africa.” – Tokar (03:49)

• Prediction:
  • Tokar cautions against predictions but insists Ukraine “cannot capitulate” and any end to war must hold the aggressor accountable.

  “…not for the price of our capitulation. We want the war to be ended… with consequences to the aggressor who broke the international law.” (04:03)

3. Diplomacy and the Moscow Meeting

• Kenya-Russia Talks:
  • Kenya’s foreign minister and Russia’s Lavrov agreed that recruitment of Kenyans should end, but evidence suggests otherwise.
  • Tokar:

    “We are very appreciative to the Kenyan government that it pays attention to this… because we are very concerned to see Kenyan friends, Kenyan people on the front line…” (05:07)

4. Evidence and the “I Want to Live” Project

• Intelligence Source:
  • Information came from Ukrainian-backed desertion project “I Want to Live.”
  • Ukrainian and Kenyan press cited cases of coerced recruitment and forced deployment.

  “We have this project… so everybody who joined Russian army and wants to leave he can give up and Ukraine will arrange his safe escape from Russian army keeping under Geneva Conventions.” (06:35)

• Reliability & Propaganda Risk:
  • Tokar insists:

    “Personally I heard this information from two different sources so this is not definitely propaganda.” (07:59)

• Motive:
  • Russia ramped up attacks requiring more manpower and allegedly needed to remove Africans from its ranks before the Kenyan diplomatic visit.

  “The number of attacks had grown… so attacks are growing and therefore they need people for that.” (08:33)

5. African Prisoners of War in Ukraine

• Numbers:
  • Over 200 foreign (non-Russian) nationals detained as POWs, including Africans.

  “There is more than 200 prisoners of war taken in Ukraine… not by nationality but only as the prisoners of war…” (09:14)

• Repatriation Complexity:
  • Exchanges possible only with Russia, not for direct return to home countries, due to Geneva Convention rules.

  “The law predicts that it can be exchanged with the other side… but it does not predict that we can release those people.” (10:44)

  • Ongoing negotiations with Kenya and Ghana for their repatriation.

6. “I Want to Live” – Surrender & Survival

• How it Works:
  • Safe surrender is promised; prisoners treated humanely as per international law.

  “Unlike Russians, we keep our word… they’ll stay alive and they’ll be kept in good conditions.” (11:51)

• Hard Reality:
  • Uncertainty over how long POWs may remain in captivity—possibly years.
  • Stark contrast drawn with the high death toll for those remaining in Russian ranks.

  “Almost 1,000 people die a day on the Russian side.” (12:46)

• Moral of the Project:

  “Your deal to the African nationals is to avoid being part of that statistic. Turn yourself in?”
  “Absolutely.” (13:06)

7. Recruitment for Ukrainian Army

• Host Asks About Kenyan Nationals for Ukraine:
  • Reports that some agencies even offer recruitment to Ukraine.
  • Tokar unequivocally denies coercion:

    “I can tell you that Ukrainian doesn’t take, doesn’t recruit foreigners to the army unless they want to join voluntarily.” (18:52)

8. Message to African Families

• Assurances:
  • Prisoners of war are “alive, well kept, and they are good.” International monitors (Red Cross) are allowed access.

  “We strictly adhere to international law. We allow Red Cross to check their conditions…” (19:20)

• Timeline Uncertain:
  • Release is uncertain, dependent on end of war or future negotiations.

  “As soon as the war ends… and let’s pray together for that war to end as soon as possible.” (19:59)

9. Conditions for African Recruits in Russian Army

• Lack of Training, Extreme Danger:
  • Many received inadequate preparation and were treated as expendable.

  “They are considered as, I don’t want to say that word, but as expendables. So they were sent… to disappear.” (21:12)

• Tokar’s Warning:
  • Participation is illegal, dangerous, and driven by Russian deception.

  “They are forced, coerced or lured… to become part of this criminal gang.” (22:53)

10. Ukraine’s Evolving Diplomatic and Military Position in Africa

• Diplomatic Activity:
  • Ukraine values every international expression of support and is ramping up engagement due to the scale of foreign recruitment by Russia.
• Technology Exports:
  • For the first time, Ukraine may export defensive military technology to Africa (e.g., drones), developed and refined in battle.

  “During the last year, I guess we finally managed to get to the level that we could export our technologies… because they are being checked every day on the front line.” (23:37)

11. War vs. “Conflict”

• Ambassador’s Clarification:
  • Firm correction of terminology; insists on calling it a “war of aggression” rather than a “conflict.”

  “It’s not conflict, it’s a war, war of aggression against Ukraine.” (24:43)

• Desire for Peace:
  • Ukraine is open to peace but not at the cost of surrender; blames Russia for obstructing ceasefires, including during religious holidays.

  “The only country that doesn’t want peace is the Russian Federation… Ukraine is interested. We want the peace, but we don’t want to surrender.” (24:43)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Kenyan deployment:

  “They were sent to the front line, to the most dangerous parts of the front line, to the most dangerous places with aim to do the job and to disappear.” – Tokar (03:20)

• On the brutality of the front line:

  “Almost 1,000 people die a day on the Russian side.” – Tokar (12:46)

• On Ukraine’s position:

  “We want the war to be ended fiery and with consequences to the aggressor who broke international law.” – Tokar (04:03)

• On forced recruitment:

  “They are forced, coerced or lured to join Russian army and to become part of this criminal gang.” – Tokar (22:53)

• On international law and prisoners:

  “We strictly adhere to international law. We allow Red Cross to check their conditions…they are alive, they are well kept and they are good.” – Tokar (19:20)

• On the “I Want to Live” project:

  “First of all, they’ll be granted life and that’s the main thing. Unlike Russians, we keep our word.” – Tokar (11:51)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Allegations of Kenyan deployment: 03:20, 05:07, 05:44
• “I Want to Live” project explained: 06:35, 11:51
• Discussion of African POWs and legal context: 09:14–11:35
• Specifics on Ukraine recruitment (or lack thereof): 17:50, 18:52
• Dangers faced by African recruits in Russian ranks: 20:38, 21:12
• Ukraine’s evolving diplomatic/tech posture: 23:19–24:40
• Clarification on “war” vs. “conflict” and calls for peace: 24:43
• Message to African families: 19:20, 19:59

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Language & Tone Reflection

The ambassador’s language is forthright and urgent, marked by expressions of grave concern for the fate of African conscripts and a defensive, at times accusatory, stance against Russian actions. Wahiga Moura maintains a probing, careful journalistic tone, revisiting the need for verification and the risk of propaganda while providing context for African listeners.

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In Summary

This episode provides rare, detailed insight into the clandestine recruitment of African nationals in the Russia-Ukraine war and the precarious situation facing their families and their host countries’ governments. It’s underscored by Ambassador Tokar’s strong claims, somber statistics on casualties, and a recurring demand for diplomatic accountability—all set against the broader backdrop of ongoing high-stakes conflict and attempts at international mediation.

Transcript

[Wahiga Moura]

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[Wahiga Moura]

Hello, I'm Wahiga Moura, presenter of Focus on Africa and this is the interview from the BBC World. The best conversations coming out of the BBC People shaping our world from all over the world.

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If you're not a little bit afraid

[Interviewer/Journalist]

then you're not paying attention. We have never seen a people so united.

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

Do not make that boat crossing.

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[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

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[Wahiga Moura]

For this interview I met with Ukraine's Ambassador to Kenya, Yuri Toka. He claimed that Russia deliberately deployed many conscripted Kenyans to the frontline shortly before Kenya's Foreign minister visited Moscow with the aim of halting such recruitment of Kenyans to the Russia Ukraine war. He said the claim is based on information from a Ukrainian backed project that is encouraging soldiers to desert the Russian army. The Russian Embassy in Kenya did not immediately respond to the BBC's request for comment. It has previously denied any government involvement in the illegal recruitment of Kenyan citizens. A representative of Kenya's Ministry of Foreign affairs told the BBC that the government is not aware of such allegations and treats them as possible rumors and propaganda. Kenya's Foreign Minister recently told a parliamentary committee that they are working to ensure the safety of nationals and to prevent further further illegal recruitment. But Ambassador Tokar claims that Kenyans are being treated as expendable.

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

So they were sent to the front line, to the most dangerous parts of the front line, to the most dangerous places with aim to do the job and to disappear.

[Wahiga Moura]

Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Ambassador Yuri Toka. In a conversation I recorded last month

[Interviewer/Journalist]

from where you sit here on the African continent, what impact do you think these conflicts have had here?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

The prices for food all over the world had grown significantly and it again influenced people in Africa.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

How much worse might it get if these wars continue? What are your predictions?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

It's hard to predict. It's not a good thing. So let me focus more on Ukraine. So we live life with the focus on war, which is happening every day, which is bringing victims, civilian victims, children, women, every day. And we live with that. And we live with aim to initiate the end of the war as soon as possible. But again, not for the price of our capitulation. We want the war to be ended fiery and with consequences to the aggressor who broke the international law.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

I mean, you must have followed developments recently in Moscow. A meeting was held between Kenya's Minister Musalia Mudavadi and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. When they came out of that meeting, Kenya announced that it had agreed with Russia that they would no longer recruit Kenyan Kenyans or Kenyans would no longer be eligible to fight in that war with Ukraine. What did you make of that meeting and the developments thereafter?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

First of all, we are very appreciative to the Kenyan government that it pays attention to this very important issue because we are very concerned to see Kenyan friends, Kenyan people on the front line that they were recruited by Russian Federation in the war of aggression and that that war of aggression which are leading to hostilities in Ukraine.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

Even though the Russian Federation denied that they directly recruit a lot of those soldiers or recruited by third parties.

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

Well, the Russian Federation during that visit mentioned different things. They mentioned that they take only voluntarily. But we see hundreds of publications in Kenyan press that the people were lured, that people were coerced with aim to join the Russian army. Secondly, it was published by Ukrainian media that at the time of visit of Moodyvadi, Russians collected all Kenyans and did everything for them to go to the front line, to go to the death zone with AIM to neutralize them to have no Kenyans in the army which is very painful to see this information needs to be checked.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

Where did the Ukrainian media get that information from?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

We got it from our sources from reliable sources. We have this project. I want to live where the project is made with AIM that everybody who joined Russian army and wants to leave he can give up and Ukraine will arrange his safe escape from Russian army keeping under the Geneva Conventions law.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

So what you're telling us is that according to this Ukrainian government sponsored project and sources that they discovered that while Kenya's minister was going to meet Russia's foreign minister Kenyan troops within the Russian army were all being sent to the front line. Is that something you can definitively confirm?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

That's the information that we have received. That information should be checked but that's very serious information and we took it very seriously and so we even have the names of the victims that Kenyans didn't want to join the attacks therefore they were seriously had serious consequences for such.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

We live in a time when propaganda about wars is really out there. Again I'm trying to confirm this is not propaganda this is something that you're positive your sources would not get wrong.

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

Personally I heard this information from two different sources so this is not definitely propaganda. In Ukraine we say every joke has a part of the joke so this information has a very high level of probability.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

Did the sources also speak to why would Russia do this at a time when a minister is coming from a country and there's an agreement being made why would you do something that could potentially jeopardize relations between these countries?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

Our sources do not say that so the only thing we have is that information. The other thing is that they are doing a strong attack now on Ukraine. They started after winter campaign with a new wave of attack against Ukraine and we feel it on the front line. So the number of attacks had grown some places up to more than 50% so attacks are growing and therefore they need people for that.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

Tell me about the number of troops from the Russia side who have been caught by Ukraine African nationals that is. Do you have those numbers?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

We have general number we have general numbers that there is more than 200 prisoners of war taken in Ukraine that are kept in Ukraine as a prisoners of war from the foreign countries with not Russian citizens citizenship but again we treat them not by nationality but only as the prisoners of war as representatives of the foreign army.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

Ghana's foreign minister recently had a meeting I believe with Ukraine's foreign minister over that And Kenya here as well. The foreign Minister has spoken to talks with Ukraine as well on the release of the prisoners of war. When might this happen?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

This is the issue that it is being discussed at the intergovernmental level. So we have designated two persons to negotiate that issue and the negotiations are underway. So at the moment we have not released any prisoners of war due to the international legislation, especially Geneva Convention that do not really allow that. But anyway, we are working on that and we are engaged with the Kenyan government on that issue and with Ghana, our government.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

I struggle to understand that because I've seen prison exchanges. I think recently Russia and Ukraine exchanged prisoners. So clearly that was able to happen. So why can't you allow African countries that want their nationalities back to be returned?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

The law predicts that it can be exchanged with the other side. That is exchanged, okay, but it does not predict that we can release those people. So this. They are.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

You are not holding those people to barter them. There are some who feel you're holding them so that you can exchange them later for your benefit.

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

It's not about the things that we are holding them because that's the law. So the law predicts that we can do the exchange for Ukrainians that taken prisoners of war in Russia, but it doesn't predict the possibility to release those people to the country of origin. But there are other possibilities that within the international law that might allow it.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

You have this project called the I want to Live project that you mentioned earlier and it's sponsored by the government. How will it work? So if someone hears your advert and surrenders to Ukraine, are they going to be sent whole? How does that work?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

First of all, they'll be granted life and that's the main thing. Unlike Russians, we keep our word. So we promise that they'll stay alive and they'll be kept in good conditions. According to international law, they were taken as prisoners of war. They according to this international law and the prisoners of war situations and can be released after the end of the

[Interviewer/Journalist]

war, which no one knows when that might. They might end up being prisoners of war for another five years. That doesn't sound like a very good deal, Ambassador.

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

But anyways, they'll stay alive. They'll have good conditions for life. They'll stay alive. But in case you are on the front line on the Russian side. So that's the battlefield where almost 1,000 people die a day on the Russian side.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

Almost 1,000 people die a day on the Russian side, yes. So those are the statistics you are pointing out yes.

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

So you understand what I mean. In case you are in Russian army, you have a huge chance to be among those 1,000.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

So your deal to the African nationals is to avoid being part of that statistic. Turn yourself in?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

But no guarantee of when you might get home. Depending on when the war ends or if something happens diplomatically, that's the choice

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

between the life and the death, or to be left without. Well, that's the war and that's the front line. And the front line is very cruel. It is, you know, it is very rapid. Actions are taken. So we are not able to. We are defending our country and the guys from that side, they are the part of aggression, they part of aggressive war against the sovereign country. So in case they were lured, they were coerced, they were taken to the army in some other way or even if they joined voluntarily for some reason. So. But they see the horrible things that happen on the front line and not all people can live with that. That's why they have the chance to give up.

[Wahiga Moura]

You're listening to the interview from the BBC World.

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[Wahiga Moura]

now. I was quite surprised to hear Ukraine's ambassador make such strong allegations against Russia because typically most ambassadors prefer to work behind the scenes and when in front of the camera, often give general diplomatic statements which, which rarely arouse controversy. It's been difficult to verify the claims he made, partly because Russian authorities did not respond to our request for information. But we also reached out to one family that confirmed that they had not been able to reach their son since March, roughly the same time when Kenya's foreign minister visited Russia. Some of the other families we spoke to were disappointed that the meeting between Kenya and Russia had not yet yielded a quick exit for their loved ones caught up in the war on the front lines of the Russia Ukraine conflict. Okay, let's return to my conversation with Ambassador Yuri Toka.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

How many foreign nationals are fighting for Ukraine?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

There is no statistics about that. There is no statistics. And mainly these were the people that came not for the, not for the money. There is a lot of people from Georgia, from Chechen, from Belarus that want to fight against, that do not agree with this war of aggression and they want to resist to this Russian war of aggression against Ukraine. Even Russian people.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

Do you have any promises? And I want to refer to an investigative piece that was done by a media house here in Kenya where a recruiter spoke about their experience recruiting, you know, Kenyans to go and fight for Russia. But at the end of the piece, the recruiter also said, if you're interested in going to fight for Ukraine, that's also possible. Do you know if that is possible, that people could also be recruited to fight for Ukraine?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

I will tell you honestly from my heart, because this is the narrative that is being very hardly disseminated by Russian propaganda that we are taking the Ukrainians, are also taking people to the army, but let's split the idea. So if the Russian army is the aggressor army, they do the hostilities. Ukrainian army is a defensive army and we are defending our country, we're defending our sovereignty and we are defending our right to live. Secondly, so I was trying to find a number of Africans in Ukrainian army and I couldn't find that number. There is not much of them. We do not recruit people, you know, from the point of view of coercion or, you know, lie or promise some other job and sending people to the front line.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

So you can say that on record that that doesn't happen.

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

Yes, I can tell you that Ukrainian doesn't take, doesn't recruit foreigners to the army unless they want to join voluntarily.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

What is your message to the families here in Kenya and this is happening across Africa because many were recruited from different African countries. What's your message to the families who know that their loved ones are prisoners of war in Ukraine and they don't know how they're going to get them back? What would you tell them, Ambassador?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

Well, first of all, rest assured that their conditions of stay in Ukraine are good because we strictly adhere to the international law. We allow Red Cross to check their conditions of stay, to check if they are fine, if they have, you know, all the necessary things. So from that point of view, they are alive, they are well kept and they are good. That's the first thing that should be mentioned.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

Unlike and as to when they might get home,

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

that's a question I cannot answer at the moment. First of all, as soon as the war ends and let's pray together for that war to end as soon as possible. And secondly, the negotiations are underway even

[Interviewer/Journalist]

as we wind down this interview. What sense do you get of conditions at the front line? Some of the recruits who eventually got back spoke to how little training they received. How dangerous is it for a recruit who's been poorly trained to be deployed? I mean, it's an obvious question, but I'd just like to hear your experience, your thoughts on that.

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

My point is that do not join Russian army at all, first of all. So doesn't matter if you'll be prepared or not. So first of thing, you will join aggression, you will join illegal war, and even according to Kenyan law, you will become a criminal. Secondly, that of course, the level of

[Interviewer/Journalist]

preparation, how dangerous is it out there? Give us that sense.

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

It is. Well, from the point of view we see it is not the case because they are considered as, I don't want to say that word, but as expendables. So they were sent to the front line, to the most dangerous parts of the front line, to the most dangerous places with aim to do the job and to disappear more broadly.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

Now, how has Ukraine's diplomatic engagement here on the African continent shifted? We are now four years into this conflict. How have your diplomatic engagements changed over that period?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

Well, we have. Our diplomatic activities are the same. So we are highly appreciating every support from every country that is given to Ukraine and that every support that is when an international organization is provided, every call for stopping this war is very important for us. Secondly, of course, we highly appreciate that reaction to finding because this campaign Recruitment campaign, illegal recruitment campaign is very active. From Russian side, they were taking people from Central Asia, from India, from China, from a lot of other countries. And the system is the same. So they just switched to African continent. And regretfully, they find vulnerable people here not telling them the truth about the conditions of war, promising them other places, other type of work. But again, when they arrive to Russia, they. They are forced, coerced or lured to join Russian army and to become part of this criminal gang.

[Interviewer/Journalist]

Finally, at a time when conflict is raging in the Middle East, Ukraine's drone development capability has come to the fore. I believe Ukraine is providing support to Saudi Arabia, to Qatar and other countries as well. What sort of security cooperation does your country have with African countries?

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

Well, let's be honest. So until recently, Ukrainian technologies were not for export because we could hardly manage with the waves of attacks we were receiving. But at the same time, Ukraine was developing our armed forces and our production of those different types of defensive weapon. And that is why. So during the last year, I guess we finally managed to get to the level that we could export our technologies, which are, let's be honest, one of the best because they are being checked every day on the front line. So in case something bad is happening, we have a direct line between the army and the producers. And they are telling that that should be improved or that should be improved. And that's why it went to the one of the highest level in the world. From the point of view of effectiveness,

[Interviewer/Journalist]

any sense of when this conflict in Ukraine might end.

[Ambassador Yuri Toka]

It's not conflict, it's a war, war of aggression against Ukraine. And Ukraine wants to end it as soon, as soon as possible. So everybody in Ukraine wants to end it now. And we will be happy about that very seriously. And we are glad that those negotiations with the support of the United States States are going on now. But at the same time, we see that the only country that doesn't want peace is the Russian Federation. It clearly show, for example, we had our president put the initiative of making a ceasefire for Easter celebration, but Russia refused. So negotiations are going on. As soon as negotiations teams are meeting the attack, the attacks are growing. So that's. Well, Ukraine is interested. We want the peace, but we don't want to surrender.

[Wahiga Moura]

Thank you for listening to the interview. For more compelling conversations, you can search for the interview. Wherever you get your BBC podcasts. You'll find episodes from the UK Defense Secretary John Healy, EIB President Nadia Calvino and Vladimir Zelensky, the President of Ukraine, plus many others. Until next time, it's bye for now.

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