Podcast Summary

The Interview (The New York Times)

Episode: “A Terrifying Line Is Being Crossed”: Mayor Jacob Frey on the Turmoil in Minneapolis
Date: January 31, 2026
Hosts: Lulu Garcia-Navarro
Guest: Mayor Jacob Frey, Minneapolis

Episode Overview

This episode explores the ongoing crisis in Minneapolis following a surge of federal immigration enforcement agencies (ICE and CBP) as part of "Operation Metro." Mayor Jacob Frey offers his perspective on the federal crackdown, aggressive ICE actions, the deaths of American citizens at the hands of federal agents, widespread local protests, and the deepening rift between city, state, and federal authorities. The conversation delves into the limits of local authority, the rule of law, and the impact on Minneapolis communities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Call with President Trump (02:27–05:09)

• Unexpected Conversation: Mayor Frey discusses his surprise at speaking directly with President Trump regarding the federal operation in Minneapolis.
  • “Never in a million years did I think that I would be having a phone call with President Trump about this large scale invasion...” (02:56)
• Nature of the Call: The initial tone was unexpectedly collegial, Trump even complimented Frey.
  • “He said that I was impressive on the television…We talked just initially about the East Coast.” (03:47)
• Frey’s Clear Ask: Frey insisted that Operation Metro Surge needed to end, citing the devastation wrought on the city by aggressive federal actions.
  • “This operation needs to end because it has been devastating to the people that I care about and love in my city.” (05:09)

2. Federal-State Conflict over Immigration Enforcement (05:09–09:35)

• Jurisdictional Boundaries: Frey defends Minneapolis's refusal to have local police enforce federal immigration law:
  • “I want our police officers doing the important work of keeping Minneapolis residents safe, responding to 911 calls...not...hunting down a father...who happens to be from Ecuador.” (05:28)
  • He references even Rudy Giuliani’s policies for context and bipartisan support.
• Negotiations with Federal Officials: Upon Tom Homan replacing Bevino as local federal lead, “de-escalation” was promised, but Frey remains skeptical.
  • “As far as massive changes in this operation, I'll believe it when I see it.” (04:37)
  • "What we have seen feels like an invasion." (09:14)
• Lopsided Numbers: Frey highlights disparity—Minneapolis: ~600 police; Feds: up to 4,000 federal agents. (08:36)

3. Rule of Law and Federal Overreach (09:35–11:33)

• ICE Violating Court Orders: A local judge found ICE in violation of ~100 court orders.
• Frey’s Alarm:
  • “This is not optional. You follow the law, a court order comes down. That's what this is about. And we should have everybody, Democrat and Republicans, losing it.” (10:27)
• Foundation at Stake: Frey issues dire warnings if court orders are ignored: “If court orders themselves are literally disregarded...” (11:19)

4. Origins and Expansion of the Crisis (11:33–14:57)

• Becoming the 'Face' of Resistance: Frey describes the realization that Minneapolis is now nationally symbolic of the blue state–federal government clash.
• Targeting Communities: Discusses initial federal focus on Somali community (due to a fraud investigation), then redirected to Latinos and Southeast Asians when it was found many Somali residents were legal citizens.
  • “They diverted and started targeting our Latino community and our Southeast Asian community. And next thing you know, you've got thousands of federal agents in Minneapolis...to create a political narrative, to have this political retribution...” (14:20)

5. Protests, Police, and Community Response (15:12–18:44)

• Videotaping as Protest: Frey supports public recording of ICE activity.
  • “Sunlight is the best disinfectant...Do I support people actively recording what's taking place in public? Yeah, I support that. Absolutely.” (15:12)
• Protest Tactics: Differentiates between legal observation and illegal interference (“difference between impeding and videotaping”). (16:22)
  • Expresses desire for a “moral impediment.” (16:27)
• Limits of Local Power: Responds to fears of helplessness voiced by residents.
  • “Of course, there are limitations on what we're able to do at any level of government...Not going to outgun the federal government...We can fight in a legal one. We can have the law be the court and the battlefield.” (17:14–18:22)

6. Scale and Impact of Federal Operation (18:44–19:36)

• Unclear Numbers: The city doesn’t know how many people have been apprehended or affected.
  • “To say that it is disconcerting would be a massive understatement.” (19:24)

7. Federal Narratives, Use of Force & The Weaponization of DOJ (19:36–21:25)

• Smear Campaign Against Protesters: Frey criticizes the use of labels like “domestic terrorists.”
  • “We are seeing the Department of Justice weaponized against people that have done nothing wrong...they try to concoct a narrative that just is false.” (19:59)
• Shooting of Alex Preddy: Responds to claims that past minor incidents justified his killing.
  • “Are we saying that something that happened 11 days prior justified a fatal shooting? 11 days? That doesn't make a lot of sense.” (21:14)

8. Abolishing ICE and Lessons from Police Reform (22:06–23:45)

• History of Early, Unpopular Positions: Frey’s stances on police reform were once controversial, then widely adopted.
• On Calls to Abolish ICE:
  • Supports “top-to-bottom shift” in ICE, not outright abolition:
  • “Unless the argument is that we should get rid of immigration law entirely…then you do need some mechanism to enforce.” (22:47)
  • Advocates shifting ICE to DOJ and for wholesale conduct/personnel change.

9. Being Targeted by Federal Investigation (24:20–29:09)

• Personal and Political Risk: Frey reveals DOJ has opened a criminal investigation into him and Governor Walz for allegedly conspiring to impede federal agents.
  • “I'd be lying if I told you that it wasn't disconcerting…It’s garbage. It's complete bs.” (24:20, 28:42)
  • “I am confident. And at the same time, of course, I have concerns. Look, I’m a dad...” (28:42)
  • Shares the burden this puts on his family and his intent to stand unbowed.

10. Rebuilding Trust Amid Fear (29:29–31:51)

• The Challenge: Many residents are “terrified,” not leaving homes, children not going to school. Restoring community trust will be a long process.
• Community Resilience: Frey finds hope and inspiration in how residents support each other:
  • “The kind of grit and perseverance that they have collectively shown…is beautiful. And the pride that is emanating from a city that hasn't always felt it, is something that is special in this moment.” (30:56)
  • Notes improved trust in local police versus the Feds.

11. Historical Parallels and Warnings (31:51–34:00)

• Comparisons to Civil War-Era Clashes: Governor Walz compared the situation to Fort Sumter; Frey sees it as “a significant and terrifying line is being crossed.”
  • “We need to unify as a country...love this nation more than you love your respective ideology.” (32:18)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On local police and ICE demands:
  “I want our police officers…not spending a single minute hunting down a father that just dropped his kids off at daycare, who’s about to go work a 12-hour shift, who happens to be from Ecuador…” — Mayor Jacob Frey (05:28)

• On following the law:
  “You follow the law, a court order comes down. That's what this is about. And we should have everybody, Democrat and Republicans, losing it.” — Mayor Jacob Frey (10:27)

• On protests and videotaping:
  “Sunlight is the best disinfectant…Do I support people actively recording what's taking place in public? Yeah, I support that. Absolutely.” — Mayor Jacob Frey (15:12)

• On community resilience:
  “The kind of grit and perseverance that they have collectively shown…is beautiful.” — Mayor Jacob Frey (30:56)

• On the potential violation of norms:
  “A significant and terrifying line is being crossed. And I would agree with that.” — Mayor Jacob Frey (32:18)

• On demands for voter rolls:
  “Why are those two things connected?…That is wildly unconstitutional. That serves no place in America.” — Mayor Jacob Frey (25:59)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening overview (context) – 00:33
• Call with President Trump – 02:27–05:09
• Jurisdiction, policing, ICE demands – 05:09–09:35
• Rule of law and ICE court violations – 09:35–11:33
• Origins: targeting Somali community – 11:33–14:57
• On videotaping and protests – 15:12–16:45
• Limits of mayoral power – 16:46–18:44
• Unclear human impact numbers – 18:44–19:36
• Federal narratives, shootings, and protester portrayal – 19:36–21:25
• Abolish ICE and police reform reflections – 22:06–23:45
• Federal investigation into Frey and Walz – 24:20–29:09
• Restoring trust and praise for Minneapolis' resilience – 29:29–31:51
• Civil War analogies, national unity warning – 31:51–34:00

Conclusion

This episode captures an inflection point in American politics as seen from the ground in Minneapolis. Mayor Frey paints an urgent picture of a city under siege—caught between federal demands, legal boundaries, and the needs of its diverse, fearful population. The conversation is marked by candid emotion, a fierce defense of lawful governance, and an abiding faith in the power of community. Frey's warnings about the direction of federal action—“a terrifying line is being crossed”—offer a clear call to attention for listeners across the country.