Ben Stiller on 'Severance,' Selling Out and Being Jewish Today [Re-Run]

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ben Stiller on 'Severance,' Selling Out and Being Jewish Today

Podcast: The Interview (The New York Times)
Episode Aired: October 11, 2025
Hosts: David Marchese
Guest: Ben Stiller

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Episode Overview

This episode features a deep and wide-ranging conversation between David Marchese and Ben Stiller, touching on the Emmy-winning series Severance (as Stiller returns with its anticipated second season), his shifting career from comedy stardom to creative control as a director, personal topics such as family and Jewish identity, and evolving attitudes toward comedy and success. The discussion flows candidly between career retrospection, thoughts on creative fear, generational change, and how the current cultural landscape reshapes the meaning of selling out, fame, and self-acceptance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Comedy’s Influence on Severance and Its Evolution

• Workplace Comedy DNA:
  • Stiller considers Severance as rooted in the tradition of workplace comedies, though the series veers into stranger, darker places (03:25–04:07).
  • “The show has its basis in the workplace comedy like The Office or Office Space, but where it goes off... we probably went to some stranger places.” – Ben Stiller (03:25)
• Season Two's Tone Shift:
  • Acknowledges the second season gets “a little bit stranger” while retaining the core—people working jobs they don’t understand (04:07–04:30).

2. The Difficulties and Dynamics of Making Severance

• Production Challenges:
  • Addresses media reports about delays and creative tensions.
  • “It's not always perfect. We went through patches where there were difficulties, but... it all came out of everybody wanting something to be as good as it could be.” – Ben Stiller (05:00)
• Endgame Vision:
  • He confirms the team has a planned ending and set arc for the show—though he’s careful not to spoil anything (06:02–06:36).
  • “The series has always been about Mark... what happens with his Innie and his Outie...” – Ben Stiller (06:36)

3. Parallels Between Hollywood and Lumon’s Corporate Mystery

• Industry Power Structures:
  • Draws comparisons between real-life Hollywood and Severance’s Lumen—both are places where power and control are opaque (07:22–08:35).
  • “There's always somebody making a decision who is not making it to your face... and it can be really, really frustrating.” – Ben Stiller (07:22)

4. Stiller’s Movie Star Era and Audience Perception

• Typecasting and Audience Affection:
  • Discusses being typecast as the likable underdog and reflects humorously on public fatigue (“Dear God, stop putting Ben Stiller in comedies.”) (08:35–09:59).
• Navigating Success:
  • Explains that he made career choices based on passion (e.g., Night at the Museum stemmed from his childhood love of museums), not strategic planning (11:16–12:35).

5. Creative Tension and Fear as Motivation

• Opportunities vs. Aspirations:
  • Balancing “big offers” and desire to direct resulted in internal tension (12:35–13:24).
  • “Fear is always a big thing as an actor… sometimes [it motivates you] to jump into something, sometimes to go away from something.” – Ben Stiller (12:57)
• Regrets and Evolving Courage:
  • Aging has lessened his fear of failure; he values taking risks over being “the winner” (13:57–15:30).
  • “As you get older… you care a little bit less about [bad results].” – Ben Stiller (13:57)

6. The Shifting Concept of 'Selling Out'

• Generation X and Selling Out Anxiety:
  • Reality Bites is unpacked as a Gen X artifact—its obsession with “selling out” feels outdated in the influencer era (17:42–18:30).
  • “If you're not selling out, you're not doing what you should be doing.” – Ben Stiller (18:43)
• Social Media’s Impact:
  • Discussion on how modern youth are pressured to project curated versions of themselves online—now “selling out” is almost required (18:30–19:31).

7. Jewish Identity in Hollywood, Today and Historically

• What Makes Sammy Run? and Jewish Stereotypes:
  • Stiller describes the resistance to adapting this “self-hating Jew” story, especially in the current climate (20:15–21:38).
• Jewishness Post-October 7:
  • Speaks candidly about rising antisemitism and navigating Jewish identity in the public eye post-Israel attacks (21:48–24:16).
  • “I never experienced antisemitism. I heard about it, but I was never around it… to start feeling that now… is something I never thought I'd experience.” – Ben Stiller (21:48)

8. Personal Growth and Family

• Career Shift and Priorities After 2010:
  • Describes moving back to New York, reevaluating priorities, especially after Zoolander 2 flopped (25:10–26:31).
  • “Zoolander 2 gave me the gift of nobody offering me Zoolander 3 because nobody wanted it.” – Ben Stiller (25:10)
• Marriage and Reconciliation:
  • On separating and reconciling with Christine Taylor: COVID lockdown as a catalyst for healing and greater appreciation (26:31–28:09).
• Making a Doc About His Parents:
  • Stiller’s upcoming documentary about Jerry Stiller and Anne Meara becomes a vehicle for self-reflection (28:51–31:27).
  • “I see my father. I love my father, but also that tension of not wanting to be my father…” – Ben Stiller (29:30)
• Mother's Influence:
  • Anne Meara was a more critical audience, more serious and literary (32:18–33:21).

9. Self-Understanding and Motivation

• Lorne Michaels & SNL Departure:
  • Walked away from SNL because his creative instincts weren’t a fit (34:44–36:00).
• Reflecting on Why He Performs:
  • Jerry Stiller’s advice: “See past the hype and... ask yourself why you want to perform.”
  • “I think it’s about trying to get closer to expressing my true self… make something that feels truthful and real…” – Ben Stiller (36:44)

10. Memorable Roles and Humor

• Iconic Comic Villains:
  • Confirms Tony Perkis (Heavyweights) and White Goodman (Dodgeball) are essentially the same character:
    • “No, they're not. They're totally different. One has blonde hair, and one has really dark hair.” – Ben Stiller (38:41)
    • On recycling a comedic voice: "I kind of just went into that voice... I never thought anybody would really, like, 30 years later, be talking about [this]." (39:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On making Severance:

  “Creatively it's been questions of, like, which way do we go… different perspectives, but… all those different points of view ended up making the show what it is.” — Ben Stiller (05:00)

• On life and creative fear:

  “Fear is what drives you sometimes to go away from something or… to jump into something…” — Ben Stiller (12:57)

• On generational attitudes:

  “The concept of selling out is a total phantom that doesn’t exist for people anymore.” — David Marchese (18:27) “If you’re not selling out, you’re not doing what you should be doing.” — Ben Stiller (18:43)

• On aging and priorities:

  “I just want to have this experience while I'm still here.” — Ben Stiller (15:28)

• On fatherhood and legacy:

  “I love my father, but also that tension of not wanting to be my father. But everybody loves my father. And so I would love to be loved as my father is loved, because he was a lovely person. But then there's also the thing of, 'Oh, but I'm me.'” — Ben Stiller (29:30)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:25 – Ben Stiller defines Severance's comedic influences and evolution
• 05:00 – Honest take on production challenges and creative collaboration
• 06:36 – Stiller discusses series arc and the focus on Mark’s character
• 08:35 – Discussion on audience perceptions and star image
• 12:57 – Fear as both a motivator and an obstacle in creative decisions
• 17:42 – Generation X, Reality Bites, and the selling-out concept
• 21:48 – Jewish identity and rising antisemitism post-October 7
• 25:10 – Stiller’s post-2010 career transition and lessons from Zoolander 2
• 29:30 – Self-reflection on family, inheritance, and wanting to be one’s own person
• 36:44 – On his motivation to create and perform, inspired by father’s wisdom
• 38:41 – Playful exchange about Tony Perkis and White Goodman as the same character
• 43:08 (Follow-up call) – Oblique Severance teasers involving Gordon Lightfoot
• 46:10 – On how the freedom of comedy in the 2000s differs from today

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Follow-up Segment Highlights ("The Little Follow-up")

• Gordon Lightfoot Reference in Severance:
  • Yes, the song melody appears, but Stiller (playfully) refuses to confirm its importance to the plot (43:08–43:32).
• Would He Do Another Fockers Movie?:
  • Open if the project is right, but sees his creative instincts pulled more toward directing and dramas now (44:11–45:50).
• What's Changed in Comedy Since the 2000s?:
  • There was more “freedom to not worry about how something was going to get interpreted”—less analysis, less anxiety about offense (46:10).
• On Ambition and Influence:
  • He still strives to achieve the creative honesty of his idols, especially Albert Brooks (47:55–48:59).

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Takeaways

• Ben Stiller is both self-critical and self-aware, increasingly driven by the search for honest expression rather than commercial success or audience approval.
• Severance resonates as a metaphor not just for the modern workplace but for show business itself—and for the divided selves we all manage in personal and professional life.
• The episode investigates generational change regarding “selling out,” the nature of creative risk, and the evolving boundaries and expectations around comedy.
• Family legacy, especially complicated relationships to parents and children, underpins Stiller's personal and professional introspection.
• Jewish identity, social change, and new anxieties are openly discussed, with Stiller reflecting on feeling more exposed than ever in adulthood.

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For fans and the uninitiated alike, this episode offers rare insight into not just Ben Stiller's public persona and creative process, but also his private self.

Transcript

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[David Marchese]

Hey, it's David. We'll be back with a new episode next week, but in the meantime we're bringing you a conversation that I had with Ben Stiller from this year. We talked about the latest season of Severance. The show since won a bunch of Emmys, and we also talked about his relationship with his parents, the comedians Jerry Stiller and Anne Mera. Ben has made a new documentary about them called Stiller and Mira Nothing Is Lost, which will be in theaters and on Apple TV later this month. Enjoy the conversation and we'll see you next week with a new episode of the Interview from the New York Times. This is the Interview. I'm David Marchese. The long awaited Emmy award winning series Severance returns for its second season next week. I've seen a bunch of the new episodes which have some real surprises in them and I can say that I'm very eager to see other fans reaction to how the show has moved forward with its story. By way of a reminder, that story is about a rebellious group of employees at the mysterious and probably malevolent Lumen Industries. Those employees are office drones whose consciousness has been artificially separated between their work selves, also known as their innies, and and their outies, their selves away from the office. That sense of a divided self is one to which Ben Stiller, who co directed and co executive produces the series, can probably relate. It's actually one of the things that's most intriguing to me about him. He's a hugely successful comedic actor from mainstream hits like Meet the Parents and Night at the Museum, who's gradually stepped away from acting in favor of his first love, directing. As a director, he's a much more subversive and distinctive stylist than his biggest acting roles might suggest. Take, for example, more serious projects like his crime drama series Escape at Dannemora, as well as Severance, of course, and also his off the wall comedy satires like Cable Guy and Zoolander, the latter of which he also starred in. So I don't think I'm Overreaching in suggesting that there is some Innie outie, Severin style tension, if you will, running through Stiller's own story. As I found out while speaking with him at his Manhattan office, that's something he was trying to make sense of too. Here's my conversation with Ben Stiller. You know, I was thinking about Severance and sort of where it fits in the arc of your career. Are there specific things that working on comedy gave you the tools for when it comes to working on something like severance, which I would describe as maybe comedy adjacent?

[Ben Stiller]

It's funny because I just, you know, I don't categorize it specifically and I think I find that stuff very funny. I mean, I think whenever anything is very specific, it's always funny. And I feel like the show sort of has its basis in the workplace comedy like the Office or Office Space or Parks and Rec, but where it goes off, I think this season we probably went to some like, stranger places, but I felt like that was also just part of what the show is. The show has to continue on its journey and can't just stay and doing the same thing. But I love that stuff.

[David Marchese]

You think of the second season as still in the vein of a workplace comedy.

[Ben Stiller]

The second season probably gets a little bit stranger than that. Yeah, but it is, but it is based in the idea that started the show that these people are in a workplace doing a job that they don't understand. They don't know who they are or what they're doing or why they're there. And that to me has always been sort of the, you know, that's the sort of like the blueprint for the show.

[David Marchese]

You know, there were a couple news stories that came out about severance being a difficult production with delays and creative differences. Was it a particularly difficult production? And do you find that there is any link between how difficult something is to make and the uniqueness of that thing? Because Severance is sort of a unique show and I wonder if it just is going to be trickier than if you're doing like a traditional sitcom or something.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, I've never really believed that idea of like, you know, you have to have friction or something on a set or, you know, I've heard directors talk about that to keep sort of tension on set. I think just the nature of making this show over the last, I mean, it's five years now has been a learning experience. And yeah, sometimes, you know, creatively it's been the questions of, like, which way do we go with it? And I really believe that the show comes out of the different creative perspectives of the people who work on it. And so, yeah, it's not always perfect. We went through patches where there were difficulties, but it's also. I think it all came out of everybody wanting something to be as good as it could be. And I really believe that all those different points of view ended up making the show what it is. So, yeah, there was some stuff that happened, but it wasn't a big deal.

[David Marchese]

Do you know how the series ends? Do you have the arc all plotted out?

[Ben Stiller]

We have the end, yes.

[David Marchese]

Would it be a spoiler to tell me the ending?

[Ben Stiller]

Yes, of course.

[David Marchese]

You know the answer. You know what you're working towards.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes, we definitely have an end. I think we now know exactly how many seasons, which I won't say at this point, but, yeah.

[David Marchese]

Can you say something enigmatic that seems like it reveals a clue to the ending?

[Ben Stiller]

I mean, in my mind, the series has always been about Mark and, you know, his Innie and his Audi and what happens with his Innie and his Audi and what is the ultimate sort of destination for both of them.

[David Marchese]

I knew it.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[David Marchese]

So what you were saying a beat before about people being at work and on some level, sort of mystified about the fact that, you know, things seem opaque. You don't really feel like you have control. You don't know who's really making the decisions. I was thinking that maybe Hollywood is like that. In some ways, it's not clear who's calling the shots or where the power really lies. Did your work experience inform the show in any way?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I do think, you know, what you said is true, that at a certain point, there's always somebody making a decision who is not making it to your face or telling you or you even know who that person is. And it can be really, really frustrating. I think in show business, even probably more than. I mean, just from my own experience, the. You know, how something happens, why it happens, why someone gets rejected, why a decision is made is never explained to the artist or the creative person. Or if it is, it's usually not the truth. You know, it's a cliche in Hollywood, but it's kind of true, is that everybody will say yes. And it doesn't mean yes, it means no. Or, let me think about it, or, yeah, great, this was a great meeting. And then like a day later, yeah, they're passing more than ever, honestly, these days, because it's very, you know, it's a Very tough environment now to get things made. I think just with post the strike, post Covid, it's more expensive to make things. And I think the decision makers are, you know, trying to keep their jobs and trying to figure out how to make things work for them, which make means constriction and choices that are safer.

[David Marchese]

You know, hearing you say that brings to mind sort of in the late 90s into the 2000s, sort of your bread and butter were these big Hollywood comedies. And in a lot of those films you played, it was kind of a type. You were sort of a well meaning, often outsider in some sense who is made to suffer a bunch of indignities but ultimately kind of comes out on top at the end. Was there any part of you that felt like you understood why audiences responded to you in that role? In particular? Like, what? Was there any part where you're like, why do they want to see me get.

[Ben Stiller]

Honestly? Yeah, I never. I had no. I mean, it's funny because at the time, I remember like a moment in time when like people started having that reaction. Like, I would like open up a newspaper and be like, why is Ben Stiller in every movie? I remember opening up the LA Times and a guy wrote, he was actually a funny inside joke with Ricky Gervais for a long time because there was this writer who wrote a letter to God, dear God, stop putting Ben Stiller in comedies. And it was like, yeah, but I wasn't thinking. I was just like, I don't know, I'm here, I'm doing it. I love doing what I do.

[David Marchese]

But.

[Ben Stiller]

But, you know, it's only in retrospect more to look back and go, oh, yeah, that was like, wow. There was like, you know, a thing happening there that, you know, I was very fortunate to be a part of. But I don't know what the zeitgeist was or what, you know. And you can look at 2000s comedies now and go, okay, they were a specific kind of thing, a tone. And there were a lot of great things in those comedies too that we don't have now. But I don't know if you can recreate that now. But at the time I really wasn't analyzing it too much. I was kind of just trying to figure out how to navigate it.

[David Marchese]

You know, you did have this real string of big movies from like Something About Mary, sort of like through the night at the museum. Did you feel like, because those movies were hitting you kind of got swept up in something that was sort of out of your control a little bit like, what was your thinking about the work in that period?

[Ben Stiller]

It's not something when you're in it that you are really able to analyze, you know, because it's happening.

[David Marchese]

And I sort of don't believe you when you wanted to say that, because I suspect you were very strategic throughout your career thinking about what was going to potentially work at different times. But I. What do I know?

[Ben Stiller]

I don't think so, because I don't think I'm that smart, really. I think I would make decisions based on, like. I remember very clearly night at the Museum was a decision because I grew up near the Natural History Museum, and I thought, oh, I love this. Like, if I was a kid, I'd love this and it'd be fun to do.

[David Marchese]

But then the Night at the Museum 3 decision is a little different, right?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. But it's also, you know, at that point, you know, you've got a team together, and those were all fun to do. And, like, you know, I'm not gonna not wanna work with Robin Williams or, you know, Shawn Levy getting this group together. But, you know, when I was in that period, I don't think had the ability to kind of like, hover over it and go, like, how am I looking at? And a lot of actors and filmmakers do have that ability. I just wasn't at that place. So, you know, the only part of it that was sort of like, nagging at me was like, I like to do other kinds of movies as a filmmaker, and I just never really stopped to make the time to do that. I was directing a lot of those movies myself, directing myself in them. And a lot of times getting movies made as a director because I was in them, they say, well, if you would be in it, then we'll make it. And also, I think it's just sort of like something that happened and you don't have control over that.

[David Marchese]

The tension between knowing that there were movies that you wanted to make and then you also had opportunities to be in other movies. How alive was that tension for you at the time? Like, do you remember experiences where you might have been thinking, like, oh, I. I want to make this, but this offer to do.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, right.

[David Marchese]

Where there's Along Came Polly or whatever.

[Ben Stiller]

The movie might have been.

[David Marchese]

I'm going to go with that one.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, sure. And that's a personal choice you make at the time. I mean, I think fear is always a big thing as an actor. I think I saw a Q and A with Jeremy Strong, that movie the Apprentice, and somebody asked him, why did you Want to do this role. He said fear. And I totally identify with that because, you know, fear is what drives you sometimes to go away from something or sometimes to jump into something, depending on where you're at.

[David Marchese]

So what was a fear driven decision?

[Ben Stiller]

I mean, I think so many decisions are based in. It's underneath, it's like whether or not the fear is going to push you away from something or you're going to jump off the cliff with it. I had a chance to do Glengarry Glen Ross on Broadway. Probably around that long came poly time. I decided not to do that. I look back, oh, maybe it would have like to have done that. But it's also just where I was at at the time.

[David Marchese]

And has what you're afraid of changed over time?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, I mean, I think as you get older, it changes everything in terms of, you know, what you look at as what's ahead of you in terms of the things that you think you want to do then really looking at, okay, well, I'm at this point in my life, I'm at this age. You have to think more about, well, do I really want to take this chance right now? How much do I care about what the bad result is? And I think as you get older, for me, it's like you care a little bit less about that if you want to do something because you're like, well, why am I letting this intangible thing, which is fear of what? It's fear of people saying I suck. Fear of people not going to see it or saying, I mean, what is that? That's still like. And I've experienced that because, as you know, I've had successes and failures and you know, the day after something doesn't do well or if it, you know, gets bad reviews or people don't go. It's not like anything in your literal life has changed, you know, your real life, your tangible life. It's just how you feel, you know, maybe you feel embarrassed or you feel like, I, I, you know, I damn, I wasn't, you know, I wanted to be the winner. But you know, winning doesn't always happen, usually doesn't happen. So, you know, how do you live with that? And when you take the chance, it's still important that you took the leap and you went for it. And failure can be in not taking the chance. And as, as you get older, I think that's something that you start to feel. It's like, well, I just want to have this experience while I'm still here.

[David Marchese]

Just hearing you talk about Your thinking in the context of the audience and also what you want to do. I was just. In my mind, I remember how I did one of these interviews with Eddie Murphy and he said he only wants to do projects that he knows will work. Like he's not interested really in doing something that might be off putting or alienating. If he's going to spend time on doing something, he wants to feel confident that it's going to work. Which doesn't quite sound like how you think about it.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, I mean, sometimes the audience has to sort of have time to. I feel like this has happened with a bunch of movies I've done, which is it takes the audience a few years to get it. Like Zoolander or something like that, you know, Zoolander, when it came out, was not a big hit because what a weird world, what a weird character. But once they became acclimated to it, then it became something that they really liked.

[David Marchese]

Reality Bites was the first film you directed. That's a film that really seemed to speak to Gen X, both then and still continues to speak to them. Do you think that film is representative of any specific generational values that you hold?

[Ben Stiller]

I feel like the film is a timepiece of where we were at that moment in time, as put through a kind of a pop culture lens. And it was written by Helen Childress, who was taking her experience and trying to kind of encapsulate, you know, the issues that she was dealing with. I think I was coming to add it more as my character, honestly. You know, the Michael character, who was the guy kind kind of trying to commodify it a little bit and was outside of it a little bit. So in a way, I feel like that's what the movie is like. Helen was Lalaina and I was Michael, and we improvised a lot as she was rewriting the script when we were working on it. So that was my experience of making that movie. I do feel like generationally, though, the issues in that movie are kind of evergreen sort of issues.

[David Marchese]

Oh, I strongly disagree, but. Really? Yeah, really. Well, why do you think they're evergreen?

[Ben Stiller]

Well, I just think it's that moment in time where you're having to figure out how to. If you have parents who've supported you or whatever, that you're having to cut the cord and figure out how to go out into the world and find yourself.

[David Marchese]

Tell me your truth. No, I 100% agree with that aspect of it. The aspect of the film that, to me, feels very much like a time capsule and representative of a specific Gen X attitude that has basically disappeared is the anxiety about the possibility of selling out. And I think now young creative people, it's like, maybe it's just because they've realized it's so hard to actually make a living. The concept of selling out is a total phantom that doesn't exist for people.

[Ben Stiller]

Anymore because it's almost like it's like.

[David Marchese]

Anybody'S gonna give me money, of course I'll take it.

[Ben Stiller]

But I think a lot of that is because of how social media has changed, how people can upload their lives to everyone directly, you know, And I.

[David Marchese]

Think I know what's the connection.

[Ben Stiller]

I don't. Just that she was making a little documentary on her video camera that then she had to give to Michael to put on, you know, the MTV version of what that was. And now you just go straight to the Internet. And I think young people are expected to do that now and to create their own movie and get it out into the world. I think it plays into what you're saying, which is it's almost like if you're not selling out, you're not doing what you should be doing.

[David Marchese]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And I feel that with my kids. I see that pressure on them when I see their friends and what they post and their image of what they put out to the world. And it's a responsibility, and if you don't do that, you're not part of what's going on. So I feel like there's almost pressure to have to do that.

[David Marchese]

And, you know, another project I think you wanted to make for a long time was an adaptation of what Makes Sammy Run Bud Schulberg novel. You tried for years to get that made, and I thought this. So for people who don't know the book, it's a story about a Jewish character named Sammy Glick, who's sort of a conniving, amoral striver in Hollywood and his unquenchable thirst to succeed in that world. And I thought that's an interesting movie for a young, successful Jewish man in Hollywood to want to make. What was it about that book that resonated with you?

[Ben Stiller]

Well, I thought the story was kind of, you know, it's this prototypical story of a guy who comes from nothing to do whatever it takes to get to the top. And I think Bud Schulberg always saw it as kind of a metaphor for anybody who wants to get to the top. That mindset of it doesn't matter, you just do whatever it takes. That's why I think the novel resonates. I think there's always been a resistance to it and I can understand why. For a long time I was very frustrated because I felt like, well, this story should be made. But the flip side of it is that it can be looked at as you're shining a spotlight on a Jewish character who is this self hating Jew who is willing to do whatever. And, you know.

[David Marchese]

Do you think that was the resistance to.

[Ben Stiller]

I think so, I think. I mean, partly. I think so. I think it's always been hard to make show business stories, you know, in Hollywood because people in the business feel like the outside world isn't interested in the inside baseball of it. Though I've always been attracted to those kinds of stories and I do. You know, it's funny, I think about it now and I would love to see that story made. What I worry about is how people would interpret it on the outside, you know, and that's. As a Jewish person, do you think.

[David Marchese]

There are ways in which after October 7, being Jewish in Hollywood has been trickier to navigate or have things felt different?

[Ben Stiller]

I think just being a Jewish person feels different. And I think it's an environment that growing up, I grew up in an incredibly sheltered Upper west side environment. I never experienced anti Semitism. I heard about it, but I was, you know, never around it. So the reality of that, to start feeling that now where other people have felt it their whole lives in other parts of the world and, you know, in other parts of our country and to see the spike and the rise in anti Semitic violence is, you know, something that I never thought I'd experience in my lifetime. And feeling what my kids are feeling too, and how incredibly politicized it all is and how complicated it is because with the social media universe and all of it, it's almost impossible to really talk about it in a really level headed sort of way where you can hear other people's ideas because people are just kind of like shouting at each other on social media. But the reality of it is really frightening.

[David Marchese]

Yeah, but has any of that reality in any way filtered into your working life?

[Ben Stiller]

I don't know. I mean, I think it's also a choice of as a creative person where you want to put your energy, you know, in terms of the business. I think there have always been those misconceptions of like, you know, of what? Of how, you know, Jews are involved in Hollywood. And that's always been a thing. And a lot of that also is, I think, a result of the fact that there were a lot of successful Jewish people who started the Hollywood movie industry. And so it's sort of like folded in on itself. But the reality of that world now is so completely different. It's just, you know, the Jewish population is so small, you know, I. It took me a long time to even realize that in my sheltered world. You know, what is it, 20 million Jews in the whole world or something like that? So the, the proportion of success, I mean, it's, it's a very tough thing to navigate. And I feel like right now in the world there's just so much hate and antipathy that's out there. And it's not limited to anti Semitism, but that, that's a, you know, that's something Jewish people are feeling, but people are feeling it all over too.

[David Marchese]

I have no smooth segue to get out of the antisemitism portion of this.

[Ben Stiller]

Conversation, so I'm just going to take a hard left. All right.

[David Marchese]

In my reading of your career around 2010, there's a real change happens. Starting 2010, you really did a lot fewer of kind of like the big broad comedies and. And you started to do films like you did, I think three Noah Baumbach movies. You did Secret Life of Walter Mitte, Brad Status, and these are all movies that are really about middle aged guys working through the big questions. Was doing those films the result of a conscious decision that you wanted to start doing a different kind of film and stop doing what you had been doing before?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, I think around that time I moved back to New York. I'd been living in LA for 20 years and we decided to move back here where I grew up. And I wanted to try to spend more time at home. But also it was, yeah, it was like a point where for me, really, where it kind of changed in terms of my outlook was after Zoolander 2, it was the feeling of like, oh, okay, this is what everybody wants. This. All right, I'm gonna do it. And I had fun doing it. And then nobody wanted it. And I was like, well, but you said you wanted it and really, was it that bad? That was where I really was like, oh, I have to make a choice here where I'm not gonna do that. If I wanna do these other things and wait for the right opportunity to come up and not go off and oh, if somebody's offering me Zoolander 3, then I'm gonna go do that. But Zoolander 2 gave me the gift of nobody offering me Zoolander 3 because nobody wanted was like, okay, here's some space. I have to live with that feeling. The feeling of not winning. And also, my marriage wasn't in a great place, and there's a lot going on that really, for me, kind of. I think I got a little bit clearer on what I wanted and what my priorities were. But I think 2010 was sort of like the beginning of that. Moving out of la.

[David Marchese]

Yeah. You mentioned your marriage was in a bad place, and you and your wife, Christine Taylor, separated for a while and reconciled. And I saw her talking on Drew Barrymore's talk show, and she brought up the idea of sort of the separation reconciliation being the result of what she called adult growth spurts, which I thought was a nice way of putting it. What was your growth spurt during that time?

[Ben Stiller]

Well, when we separated, it was just, you know, having space to see what our relationship was, what my life felt like when we weren't in that relationship, how much I cared about my family, how much I loved our family unit. I think we both, as she said, we both kind of took care of ourselves separately and. And eventually it was. I don't know, it was like three or four years, really, that we weren't together. But we always were connected. And in my mind, I never didn't want us to be together. And I don't know where Christine was. You'd have to ask her. But Covid put us all together in the same house.

[David Marchese]

It was an act of God.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And it was almost like a year of living in the same house before we were actually together. But I'm so grateful for it. And not that many people do come back together when they separate. I mean, a lot of people do, I'm sure. But there's nothing like that when you do come back, because you really do have so much more of an appreciation for what you have, because we know we could not have it, too.

[David Marchese]

My understanding is you're working on a documentary about hero parents Ann Meera and Jerry Stiller, the comedy team. People don't know the comedy team. They certainly know that your dad played George Costanza's dad on Seinfeld. And I was thinking about the fact you're working on a documentary about them. And it sort of occurred to me that kind of, outside of, like, a therapeutic setting, there aren't a lot of opportunities for people to sort of, in a structured way, sit and think about their parents. So what has working on the documentary revealed to you about your understanding of your parents?

[Ben Stiller]

Well, I think it's really made me look at my own relationship to my parents more than anything. Every time I want to make the movie about them. I'm realizing it's all kind of reflecting back on my own issues that I have with them and how much, you know, I mean, you're right. Like, I feel so fortunate that I have all this footage of my parents and our family from these Super 8 movies that my dad took and then I took. And recordings my dad made. Hours and hours and hours talking into a tape machine, talking with my mother as they were writing sketches. Or sometimes he'd just record us just cause he wanted to have our voices. But I see the world I grew up in. I see my father. I was just thinking about it this morning just how much of I love my father, but also that tension of not wanting to be my father. But everybody loves my father. And so I would love to be loved as my father is loved, because he was a lovely person. But then there's also the thing of, oh, but I'm me. And that was something I was feeling since I was, you know, a teenager. And I.

[David Marchese]

And I really. The conflict between understanding that people had affection for your father and also your not wanting to be your father, but wanting people's affection.

[Ben Stiller]

I think, no, I think it was more just wanting to individuate for my father. Wanting to be my own person, you know, like not being into their comedy and their thing, you know, I wanted to be a serious director. And then when I discovered comedy, it was. Well, it wasn't like what they did. It was like I like SCTV or Saturday Night Live, you know, and not until I was older was I able to really just appreciate, you know, what they did. But all the while my parents were so supportive, especially my dad. My mom was a little bit of a tougher audience. And I think my dad was very overprotective and concerned about the rejection in show business that you have to deal with. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's a hard thing when you look up to a parent so much in terms of just what their essence is. Jerry's essence was so sweet that I look at myself and go, am I that person? Am I as good as he was? And maybe that's a good thing to want to aspire to, but I feel like that's what he was.

[David Marchese]

Are you.

[Ben Stiller]

I don't know. I mean, I try, I try. But you know, also, by the way, he obviously wasn't perfect, but he, you.

[David Marchese]

Know, he wasn't one of those guys.

[Ben Stiller]

Who was like, you know, win, win, win. That wasn't his drive. His drive was just to kind of create and to try to Protect his family and to be loved. Because he came from a background of parents who were very poor. And there was a lot of fighting between his parents and the depression. And he wasn't nurtured like that. But he didn't go on to not nurture his children. He went the opposite way. He was so nurturing. So, you know, that that's what he was.

[David Marchese]

Wait, so you're. You're sitting on a couch. So this is all appropriate for this kind of.

[Ben Stiller]

I'm going to lie down now.

[David Marchese]

But that was your dad?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[David Marchese]

Your mom was a tougher critic.

[Ben Stiller]

She was. She was. She was, you know, Irish Catholic. Very funny. I think I actually share more of my mom's sense of humor than my dad's. She was a serious actor who then my dad drew into comedy, who came up with the idea for them to do their comedy act to make money after they'd been married for five or six years in the 50s. And I think she never loved comedy. She was very good at it. I think she was more naturally adept at it than my dad, actually. My dad was funny, but his dream was to be Eddie Cantor or Jack Benny. My mother was more of, like, a polished stage, you know, like a nightclub. She really just knew how to work a comedy.

[David Marchese]

And she wrote plays and she wrote.

[Ben Stiller]

Plays, and she was more interested in writing and reading and acting and different kinds of things. She, I think, always was, like, when she saw me doing comedy, she was like, oh, that's great. But I like. You know, I liked Greenberg or I liked Permanent Midnight. Yeah.

[David Marchese]

Yeah. There's a New Yorker profile of you from around the time of Walter Mitty. And the writer mentioned that you had been developing a project. I want to say it was called the Mirror, about a Hollywood success who was worried he was a sellout and wanted to become like a truth teller or something. And kind of the writer made hey. Of this as like, a parallel for you, but the little tidbit in there is that your mom vetoed the project.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, right.

[David Marchese]

What was that about?

[Ben Stiller]

Well, in the idea of the movie was, that's funny. I'd forgotten about that. My family had to play my family. And also there was a psychiatrist who sort of like kicks off the whole thing, I think, gives my character a pill or something. But I wanted Gene Wilder to play that guy, and I sent it to my mom and to Gene Wilder, and they both nixed it. Gene Wilder, he's like, I think you're great, but I do not like this project. I thought it was really good. My Mother didn't want to go there. Now, that's very atypical of her. Because when I was starting out, like, audition tapes or I did an audition reel for Saturday Night Live where I had my parents in it. And they were in so many things that I did, it was never a thing. But for some reason, that specific role. And maybe it was. What? I don't know. I wish I could ask her.

[David Marchese]

Just. You mentioned Saturday Night Live. You were on it sort of famously or infamously for about four episodes or something like that, because you kind of wanted to make short films for them. And you could tell it wasn't going to work out. But the thing that I'm curious about is what is the conversation like when you go into Lorne Michaels office and tell him I'm leaving the show that every young comedian in the country aspires to being on? What was his response?

[Ben Stiller]

He was like, okay, that's my lore. Men's gonna do what men's going to do. It wasn't great, but I knew that I couldn't do well there. Cause I wasn't great at live performing. My mom would have been better on that show. I got too nervous. I didn't enjoy it. And I wanted to be making the short film. So in the moment, there were reasons why. And I had this opportunity to do this MTV show. And it had been a dream to be on Saturday Night Live. But, like, looking back on it, I don't remember exactly how I had the, you know.

[David Marchese]

Fortitude, Gumption.

[Ben Stiller]

I was gonna say.

[David Marchese]

Yeah, I know the word you were gonna say.

[Ben Stiller]

The gumption. Thank you very much. To do that. But for whatever reason, I followed that instinct.

[David Marchese]

Sorry to jump around, but I read your dad's memoir.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[David Marchese]

Oh, wow.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Married to Laughter.

[David Marchese]

Married to Laughter. And there was a little segment in there that I wanted to read to you. And I have a question about.

[Ben Stiller]

It's nothing weird.

[David Marchese]

This is supposed to be heartwarming and sort of whimsical. Here at the end, he wrote, what words of wisdom can I give my children? See past the hype and the glitz and ask yourself why you want to perform. It may take years to arrive at the answers, but understanding the reasons will help you to keep the dream alive and reach your goals. Do you feel like you understand your reasons for why you do what you do?

[Ben Stiller]

That's interesting, because when I hear that, I know that my dad knew why he wanted to perform. That's a good question. I think so. I mean, for me, I think it's about trying to get closer to expressing my true self. Trying to somehow make something that feels truthful and real and maybe is just, yeah, more opening up myself in a way that's closer to the bone. And trying to have the sort of courage to kind of go, keep going for that. For me, it's figuring it out is like, just what life is about. It's the big question, like, what are we here for?

[David Marchese]

I don't.

[Ben Stiller]

I haven't figured that out yet. And I think as I continue to try to figure that out while I'm still here, I feel like that's what I want to try to make the work that I do about, too.

[David Marchese]

I probably should have brought this up. One is more thematically appropriate, but I thought maybe it's a good place to end also. But I love a movie you made mid-90s called Heavyweights, which is about a lunatic named Tony Purkis.

[Ben Stiller]

Purkis, yeah.

[David Marchese]

Played by you. Who buys, for lack of a better term, a fat camp.

[Ben Stiller]

And, you know, this is a Disney movie, by the way.

[David Marchese]

A Disney movie they're not making. It essentially tries to torture the kids into losing weight. My sister and I used to watch the movie over and over again. We had the VHS tape. I still remember lines from it, which I'm not gonna subject you to. And then about 10 years later, dodgeball. You did a character named White Goodman, who's also the bad guy who's trying to sort of professionalize a dodgeball league. Those are the. It's essentially the same character you transposed from one film into the other, right?

[Ben Stiller]

No, they're not. They're totally different. One has blonde hair, and one has really dark hair. One has a mustache, even.

[David Marchese]

The voice is the same.

[Ben Stiller]

The voice is basically the same.

Yeah.

[David Marchese]

So it's not just me.

[Ben Stiller]

Thank you. No, I. I mean, it was like, you know, like, those are two, like, the most fun experiences I've ever had on movies, playing those characters. And we did the reading for Dodgeball Ross, and Thurber had written the movie and was directing it. And I was like, I don't know, like, what voice I get to do. I don't want to have that many different voices. And I kind of just went into that voice, and he's like, that's great. I was like, well, I kind of did that in Heavy. It's just like, oh, it's all right.

[Narrator]

Whatever.

[Ben Stiller]

And I honestly never thought. Not that I was like, trying to pull one over. It's just like, I never thought anybody would really, like, you know, 30 years later, be talking to me on the New York Times about calling out heavyweights in dodgeball. It just wasn't in my. Really?

[David Marchese]

You didn't think about that?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Or long term thinking if I could go back. But no, yeah, it was just sort of like, all right, I'll just go for it and do this one.

[David Marchese]

Well, thank you very much for taking all the time today. I appreciate it.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, it was great talking to you, man.

[David Marchese]

And you know, we're supposed to talk again. We do two. We are.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, yeah, right. You do the little follow up. Yeah, right.

[David Marchese]

Yeah, yeah, great. Please don't refer to it as the little follow up.

[Ben Stiller]

Isn't it usually like a phone call or something?

[David Marchese]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I take. I really think about it.

[Ben Stiller]

Sorry.

[David Marchese]

After the break, I called Ben back with a few more questions about how comedy has changed.

[Ben Stiller]

I think it was just like kind of a. I don't want to say a more innocent time 20 years ago because it wasn't that innocent, but weirdly, kind of it was.

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[David Marchese]

Hi Ben, how are you?

[Ben Stiller]

Hey. That's the follow up. The little follow up.

[David Marchese]

Just because you said little follow up, gonna Rake you over the coals, Ben. I'm determined to elicit a nugget of severance information that'll make the obsessives on the Internet go nutty. So, without giving too much away, there's an episode in the season, in the upcoming season, where someone, and it's not clear who, is walking and whistling a melody, which I believe is the melody of Gordon Lightfoot's the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Is that correct?

[Ben Stiller]

I don't think that's a spoiler to say that.

[David Marchese]

Wait, but do you deny. Do you deny that that song's lyrics are perhaps a Rosetta stone for deciphering exactly what Severance and Lumen are up to?

[Ben Stiller]

I'm not going to say anything, and, you know, I want to leave all. All options open, but also know I'm a Gordon Lightfoot fan, I think.

[David Marchese]

Oh, really?

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, my God, yes. And I used Carefree highway at the end of Escape at Dannemora. And I will hopefully always be able to use his music in movies because I think he's just one of the great artists of our time.

[David Marchese]

Let me shift gears. I was thinking about how when you came back to a certain kind of comedy with Zoolander 2, the way you put it was, you know, that was an example of you thinking people wanted something, you gave it to them, and then it turned out they didn't want it. And it made me curious if, sort of, despite Zoolander 2, if you have gotten or still get pitches for a new Fockers movie.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes, yes. The interesting thing, because it was, you know, came out a couple years ago, I think that I was, like, the same age that De Niro was when we did the first movie and kind of like, what would have evolved in that, you know, that now that I. My character, that Greg would have kids or maybe one of them is getting married. So it kind of, you know, was an interesting sort of mirror to the first movie. But for me, I guess I look at it differently as a director than as an actor. And if there was something that came together on Fockers that everybody liked, that was fun, you know, I'm open to that, but I think maybe for me, as a director, it's. My head is in a different place, you know, probably even post Dannemora and Severance and stuff, basically.

[David Marchese]

Are you saying sort of the stakes feel a little bit lower when you're just acting in it?

[Ben Stiller]

No, it's just a. Well, no, it's just different. Like a different creative experience for me, I think. You know, like, it's it's really more like my. My personal interest as a filmmaker, I think, right now is like, kind of like, I don't know, like, I think it's. I think it's really hard to. It's really hard to make a comedy, you know. You know, in a way, like when I'm. As a. You know, when you're directing, I kind of like the freedom also of not having to direct a comedy where you can. Any comedy that comes into something that's dramatic is usually welcome if the tone is clear, but it's sort of like a bonus, you know, and not an expectation. And if I'm really being honest, like, that's. That's part of it too.

[David Marchese]

And I was thinking about how when we were talking about your comedies from the 2000s, you said there were a lot of great things in them that we don't have now, and also that you don't know if that can be recreated. But what don't we have now in comedy that we did have back then?

[Ben Stiller]

I think it's just the freedom, the freedom to not worry about how something was going to get interpreted. And I do think it was sort of, in a weird way, it was a freer time because there was less analysis given even to the people who were making the comedy. I think it was just like kind of a. I don't want to say a more innocent time 20 years ago because it wasn't that innocent, but. But weirdly, kind of it was, you know.

[David Marchese]

You know, I, I just was thinking about this lately in a different context, but, and, and thinking about how there's like this whole universe of comedy podcasts now where people are saying whatever the hell they want to say, seemingly with no regard for who's going to be upset about it or not. I just wondering, is it, is it your experience that. That, like, comedy feels trickier?

[Ben Stiller]

Well, I can only speak from my own. Yeah, you know, my own experience, which is I, I definitely am aware of that. But again, I also never really thought about it that way back in the 2000s too. I don't think I was ever. I think I'm the same person I was on that regard. Like, in terms of, you know, I wasn't as. I wasn't the guy who was going to go out there and, you know, say whatever. And like, I think I always had that self awareness that probably just was, you know, part of who I am.

[David Marchese]

Let me try, and I'm trying to sort of wrap things up with a bit of a bow here, but I saw somewhere that your ambition early on was to try to make movies as good as Albert Brooks's movies. Have you lived up to that?

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, God, no. I mean, he, you know, he. He just basically, you know, like, created it all on his own. And I think he had a Persona that he, you know, developed. And I think, I guess, you know, you could say Woody Allen did it too. But for me, there is just something about the tone of his humor that is so unique. So, yeah, for me, the answer is no. I mean, I think I've been able to make some things that I feel proud of, and I love being a movie director and actor and all that, but I feel like what he did is unique and really has not ever been equaled.

[David Marchese]

Do you have specific ambitions for what you do with your career?

[Ben Stiller]

I mean, I really just want to keep on getting closer to, like, making something that I feel is as good as, you know, it can be and that and is as honest as it can be. That, to me, is, you know, really satisfying.

[David Marchese]

Ben, thank you very much for taking all the time to talk with me. I appreciate it.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, I've enjoyed it. And this, this was a good follow up. I feel like it wasn't like a little whatever, you know.

[David Marchese]

Well, good luck with. Good luck with your little TV show.

[Ben Stiller]

My little thing. Your little New York Times thing. You got Dave. Good for you.

[David Marchese]

That's Ben Stiller. The second season of Severance airs January 17th on Apple TV. This conversation was produced by Wyatt or it was. Edited by Annabelle Bacon, mixing by Sophia Landman, original music by Dan Powell, Diane Wong and Marian Lozano. Photography by Philip Montgomery. Our senior booker is Priya Matthew and Seth Kelly is our senior producer. Our executive producer is Alison Benedict. Special thanks to Rory Walsh, Renan Borelli, Jeffrey Miranda, Nick Pittman, Matty Masiello, Jake Silverstein, Paula Schumann and Sam Dolnick. If you like what you're hearing, follow or subscribe to the interview wherever you get your podcasts. To read or listen to any of our conversations, you can always go to nytimes.com theinterview and you can email us anytime@the interviewytimes.com I'm David Marchese and this is the interview from the New York Times.

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[Narrator]

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