From Modern Love: Bridget Everett Says a Best Friend Can Be Your Greatest Love

Summary

Podcast Summary: "From Modern Love: Bridget Everett Says a Best Friend Can Be Your Greatest Love"

Introduction In this insightful episode of The Interview, hosted by The New York Times, actress, singer, and comedian Bridget Everett joins Anna Martin to delve deep into the themes of platonic love and the profound impact of best friendships. Drawing parallels between Bridget's character in the HBO series Somebody Somewhere and real-life experiences, the conversation explores the nuances of maintaining meaningful friendships amidst life's complexities.

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1. Exploring Somebody Somewhere and Its Genre

Bridget Everett discusses her role as Sam Pyre in the HBO series Somebody Somewhere, highlighting the show's unique blend of genres.

• Genre Classification: Bridget admits the challenge in categorizing the show, noting its mix of romantic comedy, ensemble slice of life, musical elements, and genuine moments of humor and intimacy.

  "I think of it as, you know, people say dramedy, but kind of just a slice of life. Some tender moments, some, you know, and maybe a fart." [03:24]

• Authenticity in Storytelling: The inclusion of real-life elements, such as humorous and awkward moments, adds authenticity to the narrative.

  "Because that's real life... Maybe not for you, but for people I know." [03:44]

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2. The Centrality of Friendship in Sam and Joel’s Relationship

The heart of the conversation revolves around the deep friendship between Sam and Joel, portrayed by Jeff Hiller.

• Sam and Joel’s Bond: Bridget emphasizes the warmth and unwavering support in their friendship, illustrating how Joel helps Sam rediscover her love for singing.

  "She's kind of like a little, like, you know, got a little more of an edge. But most importantly, there's a really wonderful, warm chemistry between the two of them." [08:56]

• Defying the "No New People" (NNP) Rule: Sam initially adopts a protective stance against forming new relationships but gradually opens up, mirroring Bridget's own efforts to embrace new connections.

  "I just love it... And it's a real primary thing for Sam. Her friends are her people, and it's not like she's looking for a romantic love. She's looking for her person." [09:38]

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3. Personal Reflections on Friendship and Self-Worth

Bridget shares her personal experiences with self-doubt and the importance of feeling valued in friendships.

• Connecting Through Shared Passions: Bridget relates to Sam’s connection to singing, describing it as a vital link to her emotions and self-expression.

  "There's a way that I can connect to my emotions when I'm doing that that I can't sometimes do otherwise." [04:45]

• Navigating Changing Dynamics: Reflecting on her own life, Bridget discusses the challenges of remaining a central figure in a friend's life when they enter new relationships.

  "Sometimes you need your friend to let you know that they have this new, wonderful, romantic relationship. And... I am happy for my friend, and Sam is happy for Joel." [31:26]

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4. Reading and Reflecting on Victor Lodato’s Essay

Bridget reads Victor Lodato’s essay, "When Your Greatest Romance Is a Friendship," which resonates deeply with her and the themes of the show.

• Essence of Platonic Romance: The essay narrates a profound platonic relationship between Victor and Austin, highlighting that some of the most significant romances are rooted in friendship rather than romance.

  "Some of the greatest romances of my life have been friendships. And these friendships have been, in many ways, more mysterious than erotic love." [25:08]

• Impact on Bridget: She expresses how the essay reinforced her belief in the depth and significance of platonic relationships, offering hope and validation for those seeking meaningful friendships.

  "I just think about the possibility of keeping yourself open and... it reminds me to stay open." [26:24]

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5. The Intersection of Friendship and Romantic Relationships

The discussion delves into how friendships evolve when one or both parties enter romantic relationships.

• Balancing Act: Bridget explains the emotional complexity of maintaining friendships when life brings new romantic entanglements, acknowledging feelings of being second fiddle but also recognizing the enduring value of platonic bonds.

  "You have to kind of acclimate and adjust. And sometimes you need your friend to let you know that they have this new, wonderful, romantic relationship." [31:27]

• Finding Validation and Acceptance: Emphasizing the importance of being reassured in friendships, Bridget highlights how affirmations from friends help in feeling valued and necessary.

  "It's to be reminded... It's like looking someone in the eyes and saying, you matter." [32:40]

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6. Cultivating Close Friendships in Adulthood

The conversation addresses the challenges of fostering deep friendships amid adult responsibilities and societal expectations.

• Prioritizing Relationships: Bridget admits the difficulty in maintaining central roles in each other’s lives but expresses a desire to be a more integral part of her friends' lives again.

  "My dream is to have a central. You know, be central in a friend's life again." [35:22]

• Hope and Inspiration: Drawing inspiration from Sam and Joel's relationship, Bridget advocates for staying open to unexpected yet fulfilling friendships.

  "Seeing something like this is like. It just is a dream, and it gives me a lot of hope." [32:28]

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7. The Language of Friendship and Romance

Bridget and Anna discuss the appropriateness of using romantic terminology to describe deep friendships.

• Embracing the Term "Romance": Bridget is comfortable with describing profound friendships as romances, suggesting that love doesn't always have to be romantic or sexual.

  "I love it. I say that all the time. I'm like... you are in love with them in some degree." [37:27]

• Need for Nuanced Language: The conversation hints at the possibility that our existing language may not fully capture the depth of platonic relationships, advocating for a broader understanding of love.

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Conclusion Bridget Everett’s candid discussion on The Interview sheds light on the invaluable role of friendships in our lives. By intertwining her experiences with her character Sam’s journey in Somebody Somewhere and reflecting on Victor Lodato’s poignant essay, Bridget eloquently conveys that the deepest romances often reside in the bonds of friendship. This episode serves as a heartfelt reminder of the profound connections that enrich our lives beyond the realm of romantic love.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Some of the greatest romances of my life have been friendships." — Bridget Everett [25:08]
• "It's to be reminded... You matter to me." — Anna Martin & Bridget Everett [32:40]
• "I just think about the possibility of keeping yourself open and... it reminds me to stay open." — Bridget Everett [26:24]
• "I love it... you are in love with them in some degree." — Bridget Everett [37:27]

Transcript

[Bridget Everett]

This podcast is supported by Google Gemini.

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With the Gemini app, you can talk live and have a real time conversation with an AI assistant. It's great for all kinds of things, like if you want to practice for an upcoming interview, ask for advice on things to do in a new city, or brainstorm creative ideas. And by the way, this script was actually read by Gemini. Download the Gemini app for iOS and Android today. Must be 18 to use Gemini Live.

[Lulu]

Hi there, it's Lulu. We're taking this week off for Thanksgiving, but we'll be back with a new episode next when David interviews actress Tilda Swinton. In the meantime, I wanted to share with you a conversation I deeply enjoyed from our colleagues at the Modern Love Podcast. Host Anna Martin spoke with Bridget Everett, who stars in the HBO series Somebody Somewhere about the power of platonic love.

[Bridget Everett]

Love now and did you fall in love last fella? I love her Love is stronger than anything you love for the love love can I love you more than anything anything there's to love love.

[Anna Martin]

From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. Every week we bring you stories and conversations inspired by the Modern Love column. We talk about lovers, families, friends, and all the messiness of human relationships. Today, I talk to the actor, singer and comedian Bridget Everett on the Peabody Award winning HBO series Somebody Somewhere. Now in its third and final season, Bridget stars as a 40 woman named Sam. Sam has always loved to sing, but over time she's lost her self confidence and she's given up on music entirely. It's only after Sam becomes best friends with a sweet, supportive man named Joel that she starts to build herself back up. He even pushes her to sing again.

[Bridget Everett]

One of my favorite singers in the entire world is here with us tonight. Sam Pyre. Come on up here. No. In this proud land we grew up strong. We were wanted all along.

[Anna Martin]

The two of them become so close they even call each other from the toilet after eating a questionable hors d'oeuvre called St. Louis sushi.

[Bridget Everett]

If you ever tell anybody what just happened to my asshole, I will come over. Oh no, Joel. This is a new level of intimacy.

[Anna Martin]

To watch Somebody Somewhere is to fall in love with these two friends and to hope that nothing gets in the way of what they share together. So I wanted to talk to Bridget about how central a best friendship can be if we're willing to make the space for it in our lives. And Bridget reads an essay about two friends with a bond so close, maybe we need a new word to define it. Bridget Everett, welcome to Modern Love.

[Bridget Everett]

Hi.

[Anna Martin]

I'm so happy you're in the studio with us. So the show you star on, Somebody Somewhere is currently on its third and final season. I love this show, but I'm really struggling with something. I hope you'll help me out. I find it tough to categorize the show in terms of genre. I'm like, I wanna call it a romantic comedy, but it's also sort of like an ensemble slice of life. At times, it's a musical. How would you describe the show?

[Bridget Everett]

Well, I have a terrible time describing it too. So maybe that's why. Such an intimate audience. I don't know. I think of it as, you know, people say dramedy, but kind of just a slice of life. Some tender moments, some, you know, and maybe a fart.

[Anna Martin]

I was gonna say some tender moments. And then like a big diarrhea scene in season two.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah, because that's real life.

[Anna Martin]

Of course it's real life.

[Bridget Everett]

Maybe not for you, but for people I know.

[Anna Martin]

St. Louis sushi. Is that a real thing?

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah, my friend Larry Crone, it's one of his signature dishes. At parties, you know, he always passes around his little canopy or whatever, but it's basically ha. Wrapped around cream cheese, wrapped around a pickle. And you know what? It's always a hit.

[Anna Martin]

No, it sounds so good is the thing.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah, but, you know, on the show, we had to kind of make it fun.

[Anna Martin]

You had to make it fun. And by that you mean you had to fill it with a lot of farts. Okay. Your character on somebody somewhere is a woman named Sam who is somewhat inspired by your own life. Like you, Sam grew up in Manhattan, Kansas, where the show takes place. Sam loves singing, but she has a lot of fear and self doubt around it. Whereas you, Bridget, a cabaret song where you proudly describe all the shapes and sizes boobs come in. I love that song. You just seem fearless on stage. Have you ever had any of Sam's self doubt in your own life?

[Bridget Everett]

Sure. I mean, a lot of what I have in common with Sam is obviously the love of singing. And Sam really comes alive when she sings. And I feel the same way. I feel like I connect. I kind of plug into life when I'm singing. There's a way that I can connect to my emotions when I'm doing that that I can't sometimes do otherwise. And I also struggle with self worth like she does. So over the course of these three seasons, as she is acknowledged kind of to herself, what she's working through, I mean, she doesn't Say, oh, I'm Sam and I have self doubt. You know, we sort of see her trying to push through some of that. And I've learned a lot from her. Like, sometimes we write the scenes and I'm like, man, I wish I could be like Sam.

[Anna Martin]

Have you ever applied? I mean, I know it's like loosely autobiographical, but of course the show is a work of fiction. But you're saying that you've learned things from Sam. Have you ever found yourself, quite literally, applying a lesson that she's learned in the show to your own life? Do you ever do something in your own life and think, wow, I learned this from Sam, my character in Somebody somewhere?

[Bridget Everett]

Absolutely. There's something that Sam says in season two. She's like, nnp, no new people. And that's kind of like me. I have a lot of friends, my life is full enough, and I'm socially anxious. Many people are. So I just rather not. But Sam, especially in season three, is allowing more people into her life and into her heart. And I think that I have honestly been trying to work on that myself.

[Anna Martin]

Interesting. Okay, so what you're saying is in season two, Sam kind of adopts this, yeah, life ethos, I don't know, mantra. No new people, meaning no new friends. But then in season three, we see her sort of open back up again. And you're saying that you're trying to do the same thing in your life right now.

[Bridget Everett]

Because I think for me and for Sam, it's like, you know, if you're somebody that does struggle with self worth, every time you meet somebody, you're like, they're gonna see the cracks.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, totally.

[Bridget Everett]

Or that they'll just see what I don't like about myself, you know? And I think Sam feels that way. So she's like, I've got this person that makes me feel good. This person makes me feel safe. And that was why it was so devastating in season one, why her sister died. Because her sister loved her warts and all, you know, And Joel, he loves her warts and all. And, you know, I think it's just something that not everybody walks into a room and thinks people are gonna like him.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bridget Everett]

Maybe most people don't. I really don't know.

[Anna Martin]

I don't think most people do. I certainly don't. But you're so right. In season three, this current season of Somebody somewhere, we see that sort of protective shield start to crack in the best way.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. And she's terrified, but she does it anyway. Which is the theme of the season is growth against all odds. And I think that that is.

[Anna Martin]

I love that. Is that something you said in, like, the writer's room? Growth against all odds?

[Bridget Everett]

It is. And I do have the necklace now, and I'm not wearing it right now. Wait, stop.

[Anna Martin]

You should have worn it. Wait, is it a necklace that says Growth against all odds? That's a lot to put on.

[Bridget Everett]

No, it's gaao. I have on one necklace. I also have a golden toilet, which is obviously from season two. And then from season one, I have a one. Cause I'm number one on the call sheet. And I was like, this may never happen again. So I'm buying myself a necklace.

[Anna Martin]

I am so sad that you didn't wear all three.

[Bridget Everett]

I know I normally do, but I just. I don't know. I don't know why I didn't do it today. I was. You know, I got my news started kind of early.

[Anna Martin]

You got a lot of things going on. I also wanna say I love it. There's a lot of acronyms. I'm realizing no new people. Nnp.

[Bridget Everett]

There's agg. There's all Glory to God, which is something that kind of goes by pretty quick. But I talk that way. That's kind of my.

[Anna Martin]

You're an acronym. Gal.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. DDHD is my theme. You know. Got that from LL Cool J. Dreams don't have deadlines.

[Anna Martin]

This is such a fun thing to figure out about you.

[Bridget Everett]

Murray Hill and I text each other every day. Rfb. Ready for bed.

[Anna Martin]

Murray Hill also stars on the show as Fred. I love Ready for Bed. RF yeah. You've talked a bit about the relationship between Sam and her best friend Joel, played by Jeff Hiller. For people who have not had the pleasure of seeing somebody somewhere, how would you explain who Sam and Joel are to each other? It's a friendship, but there's so much more there.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. I think, you know, Sam has lost her sister, and it was everything to her. And then Joel kind of sneaks in, and he's so undeniable. He's so charismatic and charming, and he's got a smile.

[Anna Martin]

Just lights. Lights everyone up.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. And he's got a great giggle. And he's kind. And she's kind of like a little, like, you know, got a little more of an edge. But most importantly, there's a really wonderful, warm chemistry between the two of them. And even when she kind of gets reactive or reactionary, he still loves her. He's not gonna dump her, which she thinks that he's gonna do. So. And she's so, you know, she's such a raw nerve, and, I don't know, just the way that Joel takes care of her is very moving to me. And what I love about the relationship is, you know, sometimes you don't expect that you're gonna meet such a central relationship to your life in your 40s, and I think that's incredible. Goes against the NNP. No new people, but I just love it. And I also love that it's a real primary thing for Sam. Her friends are her people, and it's not like she's looking for a romantic love. She's looking for her person, and that's kind of what she's. Is finding Angel.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, her person. I mean, I think it's a really. I don't know if I. I'll say, like, kind of radical. Reframe the idea that your person can be a friend.

[Bridget Everett]

Absolutely. And it doesn't mean you can't have, you know, romantic relationships, and you can't, you know, have a couple rolls in the hay and a little, you know, a little smoochy smooch in the alley after a couple drinks at a bar. But. But I think that for me, it was really important that this show be about the friendship and not about, like, girl meets boy boy in the way that you meet a guy and all of a sudden he thinks you're beautiful, you fall in love in that way. This is a different kind of love. Which is why I love the essay that we're talking about later, but.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, yeah, and we're going to go to the essay reading in just a bit. But before we do, I want to talk about a moment on the show that I think is the epitome of this kind of love between friends that you're talking about. Early in this new season, Sam helps Joel's boyfriend, whose name is Brad, write a love song as a. As a secret surprise for Joel. And first of all, that's already a nice enough gesture from Sam, but it means even more because we've seen her really struggle with the fact that Joel is now in a couple and isn't around for her as much. Can you tell us what happens when they're all at the party and Bradley gets up to sing this love song for Joel?

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. The character of Brad, played by the wonderful and underutilized Tim Bagley.

[Anna Martin]

That's Joel's boyfriend.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah, that plays. Joel's boyfriend gets up to sing this song, and he loves Joel, but he hasn't really been able to or had the need to say that publicly. And he's doing it in front of Joel's friends and his church friends. And as soon as he starts to try to speak, he's so overwhelmed. And it reminds me of. It's a very Midwestern thing, and probably other places, too. But when my brother did the toast at his daughter's wedding, he was like, okay, I just wanna. And he, like. It's just like. You know, that thing, like. And he couldn't talk. It was just like. You know, when you get that huge.

[Anna Martin]

The emotion is caught in the throat.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah, that's exactly the thing when it's too much. And what I love about it is, like, that Sam is right there with him, and she's like, I'm gonna help you get through this. Because she knows what it's gonna mean to Joel.

[Anna Martin]

And she jumps in and she starts singing for him.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. She knows how special Joel is. And so anytime she can communicate that, share that, especially through music, she's gonna do it.

[Anna Martin]

Bridget, would you mind. If you want. It would be amazing to hear, like, a line, but I don't know if you're prepared to sing today.

[Bridget Everett]

Um. Do you like the beginning of the song?

[Anna Martin]

I would love to.

[Bridget Everett]

Okay, sure. I wake in the morning and I see your face I'm the luckiest guy in the entire human race A cup of coffee or a trip to the store I'll take forever and then I'll take some more but oh, oh the way you look at me I can't explain it But I know it's love oh, love, love That's. First one.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, my gosh. Don't do this to me right now. I don't know what it is, so. God. And you wrote these lyrics? It is so simple, and it's perfect. Of course, this is a love song, ostensibly for, you know, one man to another man, you know, between two men who love each. But also, I don't know, like, I.

[Bridget Everett]

Really feel Sam's love for Joel and.

[Anna Martin]

The way that she's looking at him. Absolutely.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah, absolutely. I 100% agree.

[Anna Martin]

Thank you so much for singing that. I really feel grateful to be in the room when you do that. I'm serious. Okay. That's a tough act to follow. You are also here to do us another favor, which is to read a modern love essay. Do you want to say anything about this essay before you get into it? Why you chose it?

[Bridget Everett]

Well, I chose it because you know the title when you Greatest Romance Is a Friendship. Because it's something that I can relate to, and I read it. I thought it was such a sweet and moving examination of two people not romantically linked. I don't know, I just thought it was really special.

[Anna Martin]

We'll be back in just a minute with Bridget Everett reading today's Modern Love essay. Stay with us.

[Bridget Everett]

This podcast is supported by Google Gemini.

[Google Gemini Ad]

For anyone new to Gemini, it's an AI assistant you can have real conversations with. Whether you want to brainstorm something, prep for a presentation or interview, or just learn something new, Gemini can help you do it smarter and faster. And by the way, this script was actually read by Gemini. You can download the Gemini app for free on iOS or Android. Must be 18 to use Gemini live.

[Bridget Everett]

I use New York Times cooking at least three to four times a week.

[Anna Martin]

I love Sheet Pan bibimbap. It said 35 minutes. It was 35 minutes.

[Bridget Everett]

The cucumber salad with soy, ginger and garlic. Oh my God, that is just to die for. This turkey chili has over 17,000 five star ratings. So easy, so delicious. The instructions are so clear, so simple. And it just works. Hey, it's Eric Kim from New York Times Cooking. Come cook with us. Go to nytcooking.com.

[Anna Martin]

Okay, Bridget, you are about to read a modern love essay for us by the novelist Victor Lodato. Whenever you're ready.

[Bridget Everett]

When your greatest romance is a friendship. Is this your grandson? People sometimes ask Austin when she's out with me. No honey, he's my friend. At this point, folks usually smile tightly and turn away, perhaps worried there is more than friendship going on between the old lady and the younger man seated at the bar, giggling like teenagers. Why we're giggling, I couldn't tell you. Often our mirth seems fueled by some deep celled delight at being together. When I met Austin, I was in my early 40s and not looking for a friend, I'd come alone to this small Oregon town to finish a book. So when a bony blue eyed stranger knocked at my door, introducing herself as the lady from across the way and wondering if I might like to come over and see her garden, maybe have a gin and tonic, I politely declined. Watching her walk away, though, in her velvet slip ons and wrinkled blouse, I felt a strange pang, a slow pin of sadness that I suppose could be best described as loneliness. Suddenly I was dashing into the dirt road to say that I was sorry that she had caught me in the middle of work, but that yes, I would enjoy seeing her garden. Not the gin and sonic, she said. Oh sure, that too, I answered, blushing. And before I could suggest a visit the next week, she said, so I'll see you in a few hours, then. Shall we say 4:30? I had to admire her sense of time. Next week is for someone who can afford to put things off. Austin, in her 80s, surely felt no such luxury. I liked your face, she admitted later, telling me she had spotted me at the mailbox. As she poured the gin, I told her that I had seen her at the mailbox as well, and I liked her face, too. I wish I had better eyebrows, she said. They used to be fabulous. Her garden was astounding, like something dreamed rather than planted, a Mad Hatter Gothic in which a lawless grace prevailed. At dusk the deer arrived, nibbling the crab apple blossoms. We had been talking for hours, slightly tipsy, and then we were in the kitchen cooking dinner. A retired psychologist, Austin had traveled extensively, spoke terrible Spanish and worse, French, and was a painter. Now she had two husbands, the second of whom died in this house in a small bed in the living room. That's what I'll do, austin told me. This room gets the best light. We turned to the windows, but the light was already gone. That we could be quiet together so soon and without strain felt auspicious. So you've run away from home, she said at one point. There was something about our interaction that reminded me of friendships from my childhood, in which, no question was off limits on religion. She claimed to be an atheist. I admitted to being haunted by the ghosts of a Roman Catholic upbringing. She said her sisters believed in hell and worried about her soul. Austin, though, seemed afraid of nothing, least of all death. I said I was still afraid of the dark. Living alone, she said, it can make you funny. I laughed but changed the subject, telling her I would like to see her paintings. Later, crossing the road back to my Craigslist sublet, I wondered what I was doing. I reminded myself of my plan. Hiding out, staying in the dream of the book. I wasn't here to socialize. I could finish a draft in a few months and head back home. Besides, if I wanted a friend during my retreat, I would find someone my age to throw back beers with gin and tonics with an old lady in her garden. That was not the plan. But there I was the next weekend, having dinner with her. And then it was every weekend. Austin's older friends seemed confused. Is he helping you with a computer? One asked when I first started talking about Austin to my out of town friends. They assumed I'd found a new boyfriend. Austin's a woman, I would say. Besides, she's in her 80s. She's just a pal. Even as they replied, that's cool, I could almost hear them thinking, must be Slim Pickens out in Oregon. What was perplexing, I suppose, was not that two people of such different ages had become friends, but that we had essentially become best friends. Others regarded our devotion as either strange or quaint, like one of those unlikely animal friendships. A monkey and a pigeon, perhaps. Admittedly, when I would spot us in a mirror, I saw how peculiar we were. This vivacious white haired imp in her bright colors and chunky style jewelry sitting with a dark haired man in his drab earth tone sweaters and Clark Kent glasses. Maybe I looked like some nerdy gigolo or this woman's attentive secretary. If we made no sense from the outside, it didn't matter. We were mostly looking at each other. One night Austin chatted about her life as a middle aged wife in academia. I completely missed out on the wildness of the 60s, she said. I told her I'd missed out too. You weren't born yet, she said. Or hardly. Often we cooked together as we had that first night, after which she would show me whatever painting she was working on. At her request, I also started reading to her from my book in progress. We gave each other feedback. Our work improved. When my six month lease was up, I renewed it. The novel wasn't finished, plus I couldn't imagine a better neighbor. Before I knew it, three years had passed. I was writing seven days a week and spending most evenings with Austin. Sometimes she had spells of vertigo now, and when we walked together she held my arm. Often she couldn't find the right word for something. When she wanted to keep away visitors so she could paint, she hung a sign on her studio door. Do not destroy. Soon the headaches came and more jumbled language. I need to screw my calls, she said, meaning she needed to screen them. We laughed, then sobered. Tests were scheduled. Now she is eight months into what the doctors say is a quick ravaging illness. Deep in her brain. They say there is no stopping it. A year more if she's lucky. Even as I refuse to believe this, I prepare for it. How? By keeping my promise to her. A few months before her diagnosis, Austin had attended a wedding. She showed me a copy of the vows, which had been distributed at the ceremony. A detailed list. I read it carefully, at Austin's bidding. We were sitting in a car waiting for our favorite Thai restaurant to open. I never had anything like that with the men in my life, she said, pointing to the vows. We loved each other, but we didn't have that she was crying now, something she rarely did. I took her hand and said, well, you have it with me. Everything but the sex. At which point the monkey kissed the pigeon. That night, I had an odd realization. Some of the greatest romances of my life have been friendships. And these friendships have been, in many ways, more mysterious than erotic love. More subtle, less selfish. More attuned to kindness. Of course, Austin was going to die long before I did. That's not what this is about. This, I have come to understand, is a love story. Austin continued to paint for several months. More fractured, psychedelic self portraits in scorching colors. Her best work lately, Though she is tired and hardly leaves a couch. I sit with her at the opposite end, our legs intertwined. Read to me, she says. When I tell her the book is finished, she tells me to read her something new. But whenever I do, she promptly falls asleep. I don't leave, though. I stare out the window. Austin was right. This room does get the best light recently. Her hair is thinned, but she has a shock of white up front that a friend's daughter has died. With a streak of fuchsia. She looks like some punk girl I might have dated in high school. She had a bit more energy the last time I came to visit and said, oh, Victor, I had the most wonderful dessert today. Peaches in Connecticut. Have you ever had it? No, I said, smiling. I love the idea of it. Two things that don't seem to go together. Monkeys and pigeons. Peaches in Connecticut. Unlikely, yes, but delicious beyond measure.

[Anna Martin]

Mmm.

[Bridget Everett]

Such a beautiful, beautiful essay.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. Tell me your thoughts. How did that feel to. To read?

[Bridget Everett]

Well, I. You know, I think that for me, as I mentioned before, you know, when you read about great loves, it always seems to be about a romantic relationship. And I just love that these are two people that have found each other and. And they just. And they're the one for each other. I don't know. I think what's so great about this relationship is they just sort of slip into kind of a life together, and. I don't know, I just. I want that.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Bridget Everett]

I'm surrounded by people in romantic relationships, and it's not what I'm looking for. At least not right now. And so when I see somebody that finds. First of all, it gives me hope that you can always find somebody. They may not look like what you think you're gonna. What you're gonna want or what you're gonna need. It reminds me to stay open. You know the part where they talk about sitting on the couch and their Legs intertwined. It's like to have that kind of intimacy with somebody without the expectation of a romance is. It's just. It just hits me right in my heart. I don't know. I'm moved. And I have this new neighbor, and she's great, and I can tell that she really misses the person that lived there before me. And not that she's Austin or anything like that, but I just think about the possibility of keeping yourself open and. And not running away from it. Because look at the great reward. Look at the great reward between Victor and Austin. And it is a thing, too. It's like when all your friends are in relationships, you sort of. And you're like, nobody's emergency contact. You know, it can feel a little lonely. But there are other people out there that might be the same and looking for this.

[Anna Martin]

Totally.

[Bridget Everett]

You know, there might be a lid for my pot. I'm like. I hate that expression. But, you know, maybe my lid comes in the version of a lady with some comfortable slip on shoes checking me out at my mailbox.

[Anna Martin]

Your new neighbor. I was gonna say that. The fact that you are keeping yourself open to this friendship with your neighbor lady.

[Bridget Everett]

No, I'm trying.

[Anna Martin]

You're trying. But that's breaking the end. The no new people rule. You're breaking the no new people rule, which is beautiful and amazing and brave and human and all of those things.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. And I just love that, you know, that. That she's like, okay, 4:30, you know, like, she's.

[Anna Martin]

She's bringing him in.

[Bridget Everett]

And what does she say? You know, you don't have the luxury, you know, like, later is for people who have time. Who have time. And honestly, like, the amount of loss I've experienced over the last few years, it's. We don't always have time. So.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, you know what?

[Bridget Everett]

So have the gin and tonic.

[Anna Martin]

Have the gin and tonic while you can. Absolutely. We'll be right back. You know, you're speaking about this neighbor, and I want to ask, too, like, reading this essay. Obviously, the friendship between Victor and Austin feels very similar to the. Or not similar, but it reminds me that's. Resonances of the friendship between Sam, your character, and somebody somewhere, and Joel, her best friend. And I wonder, too, like, is there anyone in your real life where you read this essay and you're thinking about, you know, this friend?

[Bridget Everett]

Um, specifically. No. I mean, there's somebody when it comes to Joel. That reminds me, you know, I did have what I thought was this person, and then, you know, they. And they're still you know, we're still very close, you know, still one of my best friends, but, you know. But I miss that, you know? Cause then, you know, he's in a relationship now, and it just changes. And Sam says that to Joel, like, it's never gonna. It's not gonna be the same. And it doesn't mean that you can't. That, you know, we still have a very valuable relationship. But. But I just think this was that.

[Anna Martin]

Huh? And it changed.

[Bridget Everett]

And it changed.

[Anna Martin]

You know, it's so interesting that you said.

[Bridget Everett]

And that's okay.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. I was gonna say. How did you. Yeah, of course it's okay. And it was awful when it did. But it's so interesting what you're saying, because as much as you're willing to share, I feel like that's something I can relate to. I think many listeners can relate to. And you said, it's really freaking hard.

[Bridget Everett]

It is.

[Anna Martin]

How did you get through that? Like, what did you tell yourself?

[Bridget Everett]

I mean, it took me a long time. I was really reactionary and immature. But he. And, you know. And at first, they kind of disappeared together. And that's also okay. Like, I understand both sides of it, like, why you want to get lost in a romantic relationship. And, you know, you think your friends are always gonna be there. But I've kind of always been that person for people. I've always kind of been like, she'll be there. And after a while, you start to kind of. It affects you. And, like, it's like, you don't want to feel like the second or third string. You know, it's just, like, you can't help but feel that way. But I also don't think that just because somebody's in a romantic relationship, that that means that you can't be a focal, you know, a. I'm trying to think of the right way. Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

A focal point in the right way. A focal point.

[Bridget Everett]

Right.

[Anna Martin]

You're just not the only one anymore.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. And so you have to kind of acclimate and adjust. And sometimes you need your friend to let you know that they have this new, wonderful, romantic relationship. And. Great. And I am happy for my friend, and Sam is happy for Joel. But sometimes you need to know that you matter.

[Anna Martin]

It's accepting that you might not always be as primary to someone as they are to you.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. And that's the truth, is, a lot of my friendships are like, you know, if I ask them to do something, they're like, well, let me check with, you know, so and so first. And I understand that you have a life together, of course. But it does make. If everybody's around you is kind of like that, then you start to feel like, well, I'm just like, yeah, you know, I'm here when it's convenient for other people. And it hurts. So seeing something like this is like. It just is a dream, and it gives me a lot of hope.

[Anna Martin]

I love what you said that, you know, I asked you what can you do as the friend who feels like the backup or whatever? And what you said is, it's really good for them to let you know you matter. It's to be reminded.

[Bridget Everett]

It feels like it's always up to the person that's, like, unattached. That's unattached. To kind of adapt and sort of. And you do, and you should, obviously. But I don't know. I'm probably being selfish, but I do.

[Anna Martin]

Not think you're being selfish at all. I mean, there's all these people and. Refresh it. Yeah. Put it on. Be like I said it. No, but I think that's so. It's kind of a perfect distillation. I mean, a simple one, but I think a true one of what friendship can be. It's just looking someone in the eyes and saying, you matter. You matter to me. You will always matter to me. Yeah. That feels to me like that is what friendship is.

[Bridget Everett]

You've just. Yeah. And I think there, you know, something like that happens in this season with Sam and Joel and, like. And she needs it.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. Can you describe a moment where you really felt sure that you mattered to a friend? Like, was there something someone did or said where you felt that?

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah, I think my friends know that I. You know, they tell me they love me. I know they do. I know that. I know that they do. But it's also up to me to hear it, you know, and that's.

[Anna Martin]

What do you mean by that?

[Bridget Everett]

Well, I mean, I have to be able to take it in. And it's, you know, it's. It's challenging sometimes.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Bridget Everett]

I was just with Mary Catherine, who plays Trisha, my sister on the show, and we used to be roommates, and, you know, and. And she said something to me. She's like, you know, I love you. Right. And I was like, you know, I'd had a couple margarinis, and I was like, don't try to unpack my. Me right now. But she's, you know, she's a great friend, and she's always done a lot. My friend Zach has really invested a lot of time into making me hear it. So. And I think that's kind of the most important part, that you have to. You have to let it in. Yeah. It's not easy.

[Anna Martin]

You know what I'm thinking, too, with, you know, people have expectations when we get older and we enter into romantic relationships that, like, friendship will become less important. Right. It's just, like, lower down on the hierarchy. It's less important than, you know, your spouse or your kids or your job or whatever.

[Bridget Everett]

A whole host of things.

[Anna Martin]

Right. How can we cultivate close friendships in our adulthood when there's so much else competing for our time or for our friends time?

[Bridget Everett]

I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I guess that the. You know, my dream is to have a central. You know, be central in a friend's life again. And I don't know. I just. I love all my friends. I don't want to, you know, I don't want them to listen. I don't want them to listen to this and think anything, you know, less than that. But. Well, my friends are making me a priority. It matters.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Bridget Everett]

Because it is like all those things you say, like, there's just life sweeps people up, and sometimes the friendships, you know, they become a backseat. And it's not that way for Sam and Joel. And that's what I love. I feel like it's fantasy.

[Anna Martin]

And it's so true that it's so clear, rather, that it's not that way for you. And I think. I mean, not to get a bit cheesy with it, but I think there are a lot of people who feel that way about friendships. And I do think that somebody somewhere helps those people feel very seen, as you say, those stories are. We have so many romantic comedies where it's, you know, girl meets guy or girl meets girl, guy meets guy, whatever. But it's romantic love. And the connective thing about your show is that that love story is a friendship.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. And learning to. And that it is central. But it's also just then how you can both go about your lives with keeping each other at the forefront. At the core. At the core. Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

My final question to you near the end of this essay. Victor tells Austin that their relationship has everything but sex. And he realizes that, quote, the greatest romances of my life have been friendships. What do you think about the idea of using romance to describe a friendship? That word, does it work? Do we need better words?

[Bridget Everett]

Oh, I love it. I love it. I say that all the time. I'm like, you know, with Sam and Joel, like they they fall in love with each other and it is a romance. It is like you can get swept off your feet by a friend and you don't have just because there may not be the sex involved. You are in love with them in some degree.

[Anna Martin]

Bridget Everett, thank you so much. This was such a lovely and affirming conversation. I really appreciate it.

[Bridget Everett]

Thank you. I appreciate you having me in.

[Anna Martin]

Don't miss Bridget Everett in season three of Somebody Somewhere now streaming on Max, and you can find a link to Victor Lodato's essay When youn Greatest Romance Is a Friendship in our show. Notes Modern Love is produced by Reeva Goldberg, Davis Land, Emily Lang and Amy Pearl. It's edited by Lynn Levy and our executive producer, Jen Poyant. Production management by Christina Josa. The Modern Love theme music is by Dan Powell. Original music in this episode by Rowan Niemisto, Dan Powell, Amen Sahota and Diane Wong. This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez with studio support from Matty Masiello and Nick Pittman. Special thanks to Mihima Chablani, Nell Galogly and Jeffrey Miranda and to our video team, Brooke Minters, Sawyer Roquet and Eddie Costas. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects. If you want to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've got the instructions in our show Notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.

[Bridget Everett]

This podcast is supported by Google Gemini.

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Imagine an AI assistant that doesn't just spit out answers, but that you can have a real conversation with. You can use Gemini to brainstorm ideas, prepare for something big like a test or presentation, or to just learn something new. And the best part is, it's easy to use to get started. All you need to do is start talking. And by the way, this script was actually read by Gemini. You can download the Gemini app on iOS or Android free of charge. Must be 18 to use Gemini Live.