Podcast Summary: Jonathan Greenblatt on Antisemitism, Anti-Zionism, and Free Speech

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Interview by The New York Times, hosts David Marchese and Lulu Garcia-Navarro engage in a deep conversation with Jonathan Greenblatt, the head of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL). Released on August 9, 2025, the episode delves into pressing issues surrounding antisemitism, anti-Zionism, free speech, and the evolving role of the ADL in contemporary America.

Rise of Antisemitism in America

Jonathan Greenblatt opens the discussion by highlighting a troubling surge in antisemitic incidents across the United States. He states:

“Elevated or intense antisemitic attitudes as a percent of the population have more than doubled in the last five years... 2024 was the worst year we had ever recorded in terms of acts of harassment, vandalism, and violence directed at Jewish people or Jewish institutions.” (02:15)

Under his leadership since 2015, the ADL has observed a tenfold increase in antisemitic incidents compared to when he assumed the role. This alarming trend underscores the urgent need for vigilant monitoring and proactive measures to protect Jewish communities.

Distinguishing Antisemitism from Anti-Zionism

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around differentiating legitimate criticism of Israel from antisemitism. Greenblatt asserts:

“Criticism of Israel is not antisemitic. There is a robust debate in the Jewish community... When it crosses a line, such as demonizing all Israeli people or delegitimizing the state itself, that becomes antisemitism.” (16:25)

He further elaborates on anti-Zionism, defining Zionism as the right of the Jewish people to self-determination in their ancestral homeland. Conversely, he equates anti-Zionism with denying this right, labeling it as inherently antisemitic:

“Anti-Zionism is the belief that Jews do not have that right... it is an ideology which is committed to saying we will do what we can to prevent Jewish self-determination in their homeland.” (17:38)

ADL's Actions and Campus Initiatives

Greenblatt discusses the ADL’s targeted efforts on college campuses, particularly focusing on the Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) group. He explains the ADL's concerns regarding material support for terrorism:

“We identified extraordinarily concerning behavior from SJP... handing out Hamas literature, pamphlets that said Hamas Media Office on it...” (29:35)

In collaboration with the Brandeis Center, the ADL sent a letter to nearly 200 universities urging investigations into SJP for potential material support of terrorist activities. Greenblatt defends this stance despite criticisms, emphasizing the alignment of SJP’s actions with extremist organizations.

Interaction with Political Administrations

The conversation shifts to the ADL’s engagement with different political administrations. Greenblatt acknowledges the ADL's collaboration with both the Biden and Trump administrations in combating antisemitism:

“We worked with the Biden administration on the National Strategy to Counter Antisemitism... I give credit to the Trump administration for implementing aspects of the plan.” (48:36)

He addresses criticisms alleging that the ADL is aligning too closely with the Trump administration, clarifying that the organization maintains its independence and collaborates where common ground exists.

Impact on Young Jewish Communities

Addressing concerns about the ADL's relationship with younger, possibly anti-Zionist Jews, Greenblatt references polling data indicating strong support for Israel among American Jews:

“90% of Jews in the polling that I've seen believe in the right of the state of Israel to exist. They are Zionist... I think the majority of them appreciate the work that ADL does for them and their communities.” (53:18)

He acknowledges that while some young Jews may hold critical views of Israeli policies, the broader Jewish community continues to support Zionism and the ADL's mission.

Use of Terminology in Conflict

The hosts and Greenblatt engage in a nuanced discussion about the use of charged terms like "genocide" in the context of the Israel-Gaza conflict. Greenblatt argues against labeling Israel's actions as genocide:

“I don't believe the Israeli government is committing genocide. I don't think they are intentionally trying to destroy or annihilate a group of people.” (42:46)

He emphasizes the importance of precise language and the consequences that words can have on public perception and safety for Jewish individuals.

ADL's State-by-State Assessment

Introducing the ADL’s new initiative, Greenblatt explains the creation of the Jewish Policy Index, which evaluates how different states are addressing antisemitism through policies and practices. This data-driven approach categorizes states into tiers—Better and Best—to guide improvements:

“We tier the states into three different categories... so a state that is okay can see the path forward to do better.” (46:25)

Advice for Combating Antisemitism

Towards the end of the interview, Greenblatt offers actionable advice for individuals aiming to combat antisemitism:

1. Speak Up: Confront antisemitic behavior when witnessed.
2. Educate Yourself: Stay informed through multiple sources to understand the issues deeply.
3. Show Up: Support Jewish communities by attending events and being present.

He shares a poignant example of solidarity when he attended a memorial service in a Black church, receiving positive feedback for his presence:

“Showing up in unexpected ways can be incredibly meaningful.” (57:18)

Future Outlook and ADL’s Role

Greenblatt concludes with his concerns about the normalization of antisemitism and the challenges ahead:

“I worry that increased anti-Jewish hate is now part of the norm... Turning things around and restoring a sense of security for Jewish communities is going to take a long time.” (60:04)

He underscores the ADL’s commitment to fostering safe environments and building stronger communal ties amidst ongoing tensions.

Conclusion

Jonathan Greenblatt’s insightful conversation with Lulu Garcia-Navarro provides a comprehensive overview of the current state of antisemitism in America, the delicate balance between free speech and combating hate, and the evolving strategies of the ADL in addressing these challenges. Through clear definitions, proactive measures, and community engagement, the ADL strives to protect Jewish communities while navigating the complex interplay of politics, identity, and free expression.

Notable Quotes

• "2024 was the worst year we had ever recorded in terms of acts of harassment, vandalism, and violence directed at Jewish people or Jewish institutions." (02:15)
• "Criticism of Israel is not antisemitic... When it crosses a line, such as demonizing all Israeli people or delegitimizing the state itself, that becomes antisemitism." (16:25)
• "Anti-Zionism is the belief that Jews do not have that right... it is an ideology which is committed to saying we will do what we can to prevent Jewish self-determination in their homeland." (17:38)
• "Showing up in unexpected ways can be incredibly meaningful." (57:18)

This episode serves as a crucial exploration of the intersections between antisemitism, political discourse, and the responsibilities of organizations like the ADL in safeguarding vulnerable communities.