Episode Summary: "Misty Copeland Changed Ballet. Now She's Ready to Move On."
In the June 7, 2025 episode of The Interview by The New York Times, host David Marchese engages in a profound conversation with Misty Copeland, the trailblazing ballet dancer renowned for breaking racial barriers in the traditionally Eurocentric world of ballet. This episode delves deep into Copeland's decision to retire from the American Ballet Theatre (ABT) after a storied 25-year career, exploring her personal journey, the challenges she faced in promoting diversity, and her reflections on legacy and future aspirations.
1. Announcing Retirement and Its Significance
Timestamp: [02:26]
Key Points:
- Copeland announces her retirement from ABT, marking the end of a remarkable chapter.
- Discusses the necessity of an official farewell to encapsulate her legacy and transition smoothly into her next endeavors.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “I can’t just disappear. I think there has to be an official closing to my time at American Ballet Theatre... I’ve already kind of moved on to that next place of what I want to be doing.” [02:42]
2. Reflecting on the 2019 Turning Point
Timestamp: [04:00]
Key Points:
- In 2019, Copeland experienced a profound sense of fulfillment, realizing she had achieved all she could on stage.
- Describes her final performances of Swan Lake as the pinnacle of her artistic expression, unburdened by external criticisms.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “I brought in a new teacher that was literally retraining me because I was striving to reach other people's standards... that final performance I let go. And it was an incredible last Swan Lake.” [04:00]
3. Balancing Introversion with the Spotlight
Timestamp: [05:43]
Key Points:
- Despite her introverted nature, Copeland's upbringing amidst instability drove her to seek solace and identity in dance.
- Ballet became her sanctuary, providing the consistency and discipline she craved during her tumultuous childhood.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “I was craving consistency. I was craving discipline... ballet helped me to develop.” [05:57]
4. Legacy and Diversity in Ballet
Timestamp: [07:04]
Key Points:
- Copeland emphasizes that her journey was never about her alone but about paving the way for future black and brown dancers.
- Highlights the importance of representation in inspiring communities to engage with ballet beyond being mere spectators.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “It should have been about a broader understanding that people from our community... are interested and do want to be in these spaces.” [07:37]
5. Navigating Aesthetic Exclusivity in Choreography
Timestamp: [09:24]
Key Points:
- Discusses the challenges of exclusive aesthetic standards in ballet and how they often unintentionally marginalize dancers of color.
- Advocates for choreographers to broaden their perspectives and embrace diverse body types to enrich the art form.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “Black people have been told for generations... it’s not all bad anyways.” [10:20]
6. Commitment Amidst Societal Challenges
Timestamp: [10:58]
Key Points:
- Amidst political attacks on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI), Copeland remains steadfast in her commitment to these values.
- Believes in the intrinsic power of art to bridge divides and foster community, irrespective of external political climates.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “Art is the most incredible way to build bridges, no matter what political party you're in.” [10:58]
7. The Future of Ballet and Audience Engagement
Timestamp: [13:16]
Key Points:
- Copeland challenges the traditional programming of ballet companies, advocating for innovative performances that may initially risk ticket sales but ultimately broaden the art form's appeal.
- Emphasizes the necessity of evolving audience tastes through intentional and risk-taking programming.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “It's about taking the leap... to see if that's all they know, if that's all they see.” [13:51]
8. Personal Struggles and Growth
Timestamp: [17:24]
Key Points:
- Reflects on how ballet provided stability and personal growth during her chaotic childhood.
- Contrasts her experience with many dancers who may lose their sense of identity amidst the rigorous demands of ballet.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “It helped me to understand myself more... how I approach everything in my life.” [17:24]
9. Understanding Her Mother and Personal Relationships
Timestamp: [19:16]
Key Points:
- Shares insights from her memoir about her evolving understanding of her mother's sacrifices and challenges.
- Highlights the empathy she has developed towards her mother's struggles as a single parent.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “I have just more of an understanding that she never really got to grow up... I have a lot more empathy.” [19:16]
10. Beyond the Rags-to-Riches Narrative
Timestamp: [21:07]
Key Points:
- Addresses the simplistic portrayal of her story as a straightforward "rags to riches" narrative.
- Delves into the complexities of her experience, including shifting body standards and public perceptions.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “It's so complex... The narrative that just continues that we really have to pay attention to.” [21:07]
11. Physical Challenges and Final Preparations
Timestamp: [22:56]
Key Points:
- Discusses the physical toll of returning to ballet after a five-year hiatus, including dealing with old injuries and adapting to her aging body.
- Emphasizes finding joy and control in her final performances, focusing less on perfection and more on personal fulfillment.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “This is the new body I'm in. So it's very humbling.” [22:56]
12. Embracing Motherhood and Identity Beyond Ballet
Timestamp: [26:03]
Key Points:
- Shares a heartfelt diary entry reflecting on the birth of her son, highlighting the profound impact of motherhood on her identity.
- Illustrates how motherhood has allowed her to embrace new facets of herself beyond being a ballerina.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “The love I feel for him is overwhelming. It’s deep, pure, and bigger than anything I’ve ever known.” [26:09]
13. The Undervalued Art of Dance in American Culture
Timestamp: [37:53]
Key Points:
- Expresses frustration over dance being undervalued compared to other art forms like music and film.
- Advocates for authentic representation and storytelling to elevate dance's status and relevance in contemporary culture.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “I’m constantly having these conversations... it's mind blowing in the fact that I sit on call after call and pitch after pitch trying to prove that dance is such a big integral part of every culture.” [37:53]
14. Responding to Skepticism About Ballet's Future
Timestamp: [39:56]
Key Points:
- Counters the argument that ballet is a dying art form by emphasizing the timeless beauty and discipline inherent in ballet technique.
- Stresses the importance of evolving representation to maintain ballet's vitality and appeal.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “I truly believe that it’s not a dying art form if we handle it with care moving forward.” [39:56]
15. Concluding Reflections and Final Performance Aspirations
Timestamp: [41:30]
Key Points:
- As she prepares for her final performance, Copeland hopes to feel in control and find joy in her dance, embracing her evolved identity.
- Shares her struggle with feeling like a "fraud" without pointe shoes and the journey towards accepting her current self.
Notable Quote:
Misty Copeland: “I want to allow myself the freedom to do what feels right and feels good because I want to enjoy myself.” [41:43]
Conclusion
Throughout this heartfelt and insightful interview, Misty Copeland offers an intimate glimpse into her extraordinary career, personal battles, and unwavering commitment to diversity in ballet. Her reflections not only celebrate her achievements but also underscore the ongoing challenges and responsibilities that come with trailblazing in a legacy-rich yet evolving art form. As she steps away from the stage, Copeland's words resonate as a powerful testament to resilience, authenticity, and the transformative power of dance.