Podcast Summary: "Tilda Swinton Would Like a Word With Trump About His Mother"

The Interview by The New York Times features a compelling conversation between host David Marchese and Academy Award-winning actress Tilda Swinton. Released on December 7, 2024, this episode delves deep into personal experiences, the interplay between art and politics, and the profound themes presented in Swinton's upcoming film, The Room Next Door.

1. Unexpected Connections and Preparations for the Interview

David Marchese begins by sharing two significant, unexpected connections that shaped his anticipation for the interview with Tilda Swinton:

• John Berger’s Bento's Sketchbook: Marchese was mesmerized by a sketch labeled "Tilda," illustrating an androgynous, compassionate face. Discovering that Swinton co-directed a documentary about Berger revealed a shared admiration, setting a positive tone for their upcoming discussion.
  “I couldn't help but take that as a good omen for the interview.” [00:28]

• Personal Encounter with Assisted Suicide Themes: Marchese's recent personal experiences with medical aid in dying and Swinton's film addressing similar themes created a complex emotional backdrop. He candidly recounts attending a screening of The Room Next Door, only to realize its poignant relevance to his life.
  “I wasn’t exactly eager to explore it either.” [04:43]

2. Exploring The Room Next Door: Themes of Friendship and Coexistence

Swinton introduces her film, emphasizing its exploration of profound human connections and moral questions:

• Philosophical Underpinnings: The film is inspired by Sigrid Nunez's novel, which draws from Simone Weil’s philosophy on neighborly love and coexistence.
  “The idea of bearing witness and the question of what is friendship?” [02:51]

• Political Dimensions: Swinton views the film as a political statement on coexistence, urging audiences not to look away from pressing societal issues.
  “It's like a balloon that we launched above people's heads. How is it possible to coexist?” [02:51]

3. Personal Reflections on Assisted Suicide and Mortality

A significant portion of the conversation delves into personal experiences with death and the philosophical contemplation of mortality:

• Host’s Emotional Journey: Marchese shares the emotional impact of his mother's decision for medical assistance in dying and how viewing Swinton's film provided a cathartic experience.
  “I did feel some catharsis in sort of revisiting the emotions through having seen them depicted in the film.” [05:15]

• Swinton’s Lived Experiences: Swinton discusses her long-standing role as a supporter for friends and family facing terminal illness, drawing from her relationship with Derek Jarman, who lived openly with his illness until his death.
  “He was the first person that I met who was looking down the barrel and did not look away.” [06:53]

• Mortality vs. Immortality: Swinton philosophizes on the nature of life and death, rejecting the glorification of death and emphasizing the importance of the manner in which one lives and dies.
  “Immortality and mortality are basically the same thing.” [09:55]
  “The point of being alive is that we know it's limited.” [10:38]

4. Tilda Swinton’s Personal Background and Artistic Evolution

The conversation shifts to Swinton's upbringing and her journey from aspiring writer to acclaimed actress:

• Aristocratic Heritage and Artistic Lineage: Swinton reveals her aristocratic Scottish military family background and discovers her artistic lineage through her great-grandmother’s connection with artist John Singer Sargent.
  “I have the custody of two extraordinary drawings by Sargent of her.” [12:10]

• Rebellion Through Art: Contrary to feeling a rebellious urge, Swinton describes her artistic path as a quest for connection, emphasizing the communal and collective nature of her creative endeavors.
  “I work as a performer in concert, in communication, in conversation with my colleagues.” [41:35]

• Shift from Writing to Acting: Swinton narrates her traumatic transition from writing to acting during her time at Cambridge, highlighting her struggle with confidence and the influence of her peers in embracing performance arts.
  “I was a writer. I was a poet as a child, and I invested my energies in that.” [17:20]

5. The Role of Art in Society and Politics

Swinton and Marchese engage in a profound discussion about the influence and purpose of art in the modern socio-political landscape:

• Art as an Empathy Machine: Swinton posits that art serves as a conduit for empathy, allowing individuals to connect deeply with others' experiences and fostering innate goodness.
  “Art is a massive empathy machine.” [34:51]

• Art’s Political Power: She underscores the necessity of art in political activism, advocating for connectivity without walls between artistic practice and political engagement.
  “There ain't no walls between any of them.” [31:18]

• Challenging Skepticism About Art's Efficacy: Addressing Marchese's skepticism, Swinton argues that art facilitates a space for introspection and connection, which can subtly influence political and personal transformation.
  “Art offers us an opportunity to be quiet and to be still.” [27:23]

6. Confronting Societal Meanness and Reconnecting with Goodness

The dialogue ventures into the darker aspects of society, examining the rise of right-wing politics and human meanness:

• Innate Goodness vs. Societal Meanness: Swinton advocates for recognizing the innate goodness within individuals, suggesting that even those who exhibit meanness have layers rooted in their own vulnerabilities and pasts.
  “They were all little children once.” [36:53]

• Art as a Bridge for Connection: She emphasizes the role of art in maintaining human connections amidst societal shifts towards cynicism and self-serving attitudes encouraged by far-right ideologies.
  “We have to find agreements now.” [48:54]

• Personal Anecdotes on Connection: Swinton shares childhood memories that highlight her lifelong quest for connection, reinforcing her belief in the power of art and empathy to bridge divides.
  “Connection is what I'm driven by and I was lucky enough to notice it when I was sub 6.” [52:43]

7. Conclusion and Future Discussions

The episode concludes with hints of future conversations and complementary discussions on the power of art, leaving listeners anticipating continued exploration of these profound themes.

Notable Quotes

• Tilda Swinton [02:51]: “I'm enjoying right now the attention to that question and the fact that our film puts that question into the air.”

• David Marchese [05:15]: “I did feel some catharsis in sort of revisiting the emotions through having seen them depicted in the film.”

• Tilda Swinton [09:55]: “Immortality and mortality are basically the same thing.”

• Tilda Swinton [27:23]: “Art offers us an opportunity to be quiet and to be still and not necessarily to go inward, but to allow in that gesture of stillness for the sort of reverberation of whatever we're witnessing to a connection to form.”

• Tilda Swinton [34:51]: “The thing I want to talk about, and we'll talk about it tomorrow, is people's innate goodness.”

Final Thoughts

This episode of The Interview offers an intimate glimpse into Tilda Swinton's artistic philosophy, personal experiences with mortality, and her unwavering belief in the power of art to foster empathy and societal connection. Through thoughtful dialogue, Marchese and Swinton explore the intricate balance between personal turmoil and artistic expression, providing listeners with profound insights into navigating life's most challenging questions.

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