A (4:08)

Walk us through some of the more unique encounters that maybe you've had with Jesus along all of your craziest adventures. Yeah. I grew up in the mountains of Colorado just outside of Denver. And we often liked to say when we were growing up that we always felt closest to God when we were surrounded in his creation by the beautiful mountains and rivers and the experiences we had in the outdoors. Does anything stand out to you throughout your career of moments where you poignantly felt that connection to God?

B (4:36)

Yeah, I mean, it's like I don't want to kind of over spiritualize it of like, oh, you know, you stand on the top of the world on a big mountain and sort of feel that kind of. Because actually a lot of the time you're in the battle. Yeah. And often in those times you're not feeling that. You know, I really do have as many doubts nowadays as ever in my life. It's not like something that like, and now have it all together. You know, I really do feel my journey of faith is up and down. But luckily I've learned over the years it's not about me. You know, we're human and we, you know, we wobble and wave this way and that, but like we're held. Through it all that's been. The lesson is like you turn around, it's like the footprints in the sand. You turn around and you see that times where you've been held. And that has been unquestionable for me in my life of like, that presence is always there. It doesn't mean stuff is easy or you don't have doubts or struggles, but like there's a presence always there. And I think there have been moments that like really stick with me. And I mean, you know, often it's the stuff that people don't know about. You know, I think of like, I remember an expedition I took to cross the Arctic Ocean in a small, rigid inflatable boat years ago. Nobody really knows about this sort of one. You know, it wasn't for TV. It was like before my time at TV. Five of us in a little boat 500 miles offshore in sort of gale force winds with icebergs being turned over in these storms. And my best friend was on that boat with me and he wasn't a guy of faith. And he said in the heart of that storm he saw an angel on the front of our little boat and it sat there and it wouldn't go. And he kept thinking he's hallucinating and he kept kind of hitting himself and he said it never left. And meanwhile, I wasn't seeing any angel. I was like just fighting to keep this thing upright and stop us being turned over, knowing that we're going to die if this thing goes over. And he found a faith ever since we came through that storm, we survived. And he's still like a best buddy to me all these years on and his faith is beautiful. And I don't know, there's a hundred moments like that I've had and they're not always the glamorous things. And you know, sometimes just the battles of life, losing people close to you or doubts and struggles with work or relationships. And it's like the great thing about faith is that it doesn't have to be like rooted in church on a Sunday. I find as much church as in just my friendships and connections and little things every day. So I don't know, it's a long winded way of saying it's a journey and we're on it and the light has been the best thing in my life.

A (7:27)

Let's parse out a little bit something you said there that really stuck out to me that it's not about you. There's a fascinating generational paradigm shift I'm seeing in American culture right now with young people really searching for substantive faith. And I find that in very clear juxtaposition to our culture that makes us the center of our own lives, that our careers matter, our social media followings matter. My immediate desires of my day to day life trump everything else around me. And yet we find so much purpose and meaning in lessening of ourselves and making God more of the center of our lives. What has that meant for you throughout your faith journey?

B (8:04)

Well, where you'll put your heart is where your treasure is. You know, if you, if you build your foundations on things like that in all of our lives, it's going to let us down. And it's so tempting, it's so easy and we ride high on something and you kind of put trust in that. But I just learned over a lifetime of adventure and so many things like build on solid foundations, hold those things lightly, you know, because they're transient, they come and go and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but they're shallow masters to have. And I think it's a. One thing to be try and be disciplined about in your life is like build your values and your life on rock, you know, and, and faith has been that for me, you know, and otherwise you're all over the place. And also it's never enough. You know, if it's on social media or fame or money, it's like that beast is never fillable, it's never enough. So, you know, it's the thing of. There's a really beautiful verse in the message version, just says self confidence is no confidence. And it's so true, you know, don't rely. It's like we live in this culture where it's all about find your own empowerment. But ultimately, many adventures and many extremes of the world has told me that it's actually a weak place to look, you know, plug into something bigger than you. The great stories through history, the great survival stories of unbreakable courage and strength and resilience on your own, it's not enough. They're drawing from a deeper well. So I think this thing, and I say it to myself as much as anyone else, like draw from a well that is deep. Don't drop your bucket and pull up sand and mud. It's not enough. You Know, go to the deep well. And Christ has always been that for me, you know, so it's a bottomless well. You know, I love that story of Jesus at the Samaritan woman at the well. You know, it's like she was not a religious great person, you know, and yet she said, just give me this living water you're talking about. And that's pretty cool. Two thousand years later that we can learn through life. Give me that living water. So I think, you know, and I spoke yesterday at Liberty University about this, you know, 18,000 people, young people there, and to be able to say, like, self confidence is no confidence, you know, that's a verse, you know, it's like, you know, lean on me, he says. That's what Jesus says. So it's like, I'm a soldier. I'm like, I'm good at following orders. I'm just gonna do what he says, you know, I've learned that through this process of writing the book. You know, it's the greatest story ever told. There's so many incredible examples, and I've written as eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus. You know, what was it actually like for them time and time again, from Mary to whoever it was like, just do what he says. I mean, it's probably my favorite bit in the book. The first time Jesus starts to do a miracle, the wedding at Cana, you know, and he's spend all his age 30, and that clock is ticking, and he's resisted the urge to start because he knows once he starts, this road is leading to Calvary. He must be scared. He almost wants to delay it. And then he set this wedding and his mum sees the problem, and his mum is going, go on, go on. You know, like, only a mother sometimes can help your son to fly. And he's resisting it. He's going, mum, is not my time. She's going, just go on. It's not my time. And it's one of my favorite bits of the whole Jesus story. It's the only time she doesn't listen to him. And she just turns to the servers, says, do whatever he says. Just do whatever he says. She knows. And he relinquish. He gonna. He gives in. And he says, fill them. Fill the. Fill the things. And the wine gets made and the journey begins, you know, So I try and live like that, just like those words. Do whatever he says. And it's a good foundation then for your life. I fail often, by the way, as we all do. It's great to have that goal and then it's your sort of guidelines for life.

A (12:21)

Yeah. Over the years on various episodes of Running Wild or Man versus Wild, I have watched Bear Grylls sleep in some crazy places and your girl is not a stranger to sleep on a rocky mountainside. But these days, especially as a new mom and traveling all over the country all the time, it is incredible to crawl into bed with a Helix mattress. It has transformed my family's sleep and been a total game changer to make sure we are well rested and ready for the adventure ahead. You can get your own Helix mattress and take their sleep quiz that will match you with the perfect mattress based on your sleep preferences in just a few minutes. They have something for hot or cold sleepers, mattresses that are firm, soft or any. They also offer kids mattresses, mattress toppers, bed bases and so much more. I am not getting a lot of sleep these days, hence the massive bags that should be oversized baggage under my eyes. But the little sleep that I am getting with a six month old on a sleep strike is so much better and of the highest quality possible thanks to our Helix mattress. You can go to helixsleep.com Isabelle for 20% off site wide that is helixsleep.com Isabelle For 20% off sitewide make sure you enter our show name after checkout so that they know we sent you the Isabel Brown Show. Helixsleep.com Isabelle you know, I saw a clip the other day of Russell Brand describing his brand of Christianity, for lack of a better term, and he said, I'm whatever type of Christian it is when Bear Gryll shows up to your house and pulls you into the river in the backyard and baptizes you right there on the spot. It has been so cool to see his faith journey inspire so many people on social media and on his show in particular. But he's the only one. And you're not the only one coming from television and more of a celebrity lifestyle. In sharing your reignited or maybe even newfound journey of faith, we're seeing Mark Wahlberg do prayer vigils on apps like Hallow. Chris Pratt has begun sharing his faith journey on social media. Why do you think there's this newfound courage in the public eye for people with platforms to be so open and authentic about it?

B (14:28)

I think courage inspires courage, you know, and the harvest is ripe. You know, what do you want to live for? Do you want to live to gain more, to get more? Or do you reach a point where you think, hold on, this fire is burning bright and like you can't contain it. I mean, it's another beautiful bit in the Jesus story, you know, at the end of his journey, you know, when he's come back and he's chatting to his disciples before eventually he's going to disappear. You know, he said, I don't put a light under a. You know, I don't hide it. You put it on a hillside for people to see, you know, be salt in the earth. And I think that's for all of us. It's like you don't light a light to cover it up, you know. And it's not that we've got our lives together because life is still a battleground, but we need each other. And like. And it's courage. It's good to be. Have the courage to stand up. I really admire when you speak of those people, I admire that. That's good. That's called courage. You know. The other thing I learned through this greatest story ever told was like. I mean, one thing I did was three times read the Bible cover to cover to make sure we get this right and work with amazing theologians who helped and guided me. But one thing I learned reading it cover to cover, which is quite a labor of love, I gotta be honest, and not easy. Where there's one commandment that was repeated more than any other commandment through the whole Bible, and it was 365 times, which is a lot, which was be courageous. You know, be brave. And it's like, again, I'm a soldier, you know, I might fail, but I'm good with an order. So don't hide the lamp under. Under something. Be salt and try and be brave. So. And I feel it's a great thing to be able to be brave about because a who doesn't need it, everybody needs it. You know, people don't need religion as such. But I don't care whether I'm with a, you know, with an atheist or a Muslim or an Indian or a Chinese person or whatever cultural faith you are. I never meet anyone I go would. Are you trying to find peace in your life? Home in your life? Do you want to be empowered by something greater than you do you want to have calm in your heart and strong relationships and have an assurance of the rest of your future beyond this earth as well? You never mean nobody's going to say no? You know, the stuff we say no to is a religion is the division is the thing that kind of feels like it's restricting or, you know, but Jesus was never those things. He was always liberating and free and affirming. So I feel it's good to be brave. It's good to share the truth, and not the religious side, but the truth of Jesus, that he's about life. And it's part of the calling, isn't it? Is to try and be brave. So it's a journey. But also if you can't be brave about that.

A (17:28)

Yeah.

B (17:28)

Like, people go, you're very. It's very brave. Standing up for faith. And I'm thinking, what, to stand up for the Almighty? What an honour. I mean, I'm not being asked to stand up for somebody who's bad in a court of law, you know, and trying to like, oh, this is tricky, you know, you're standing up for love personified. What a privilege to be an ambassador and stand up for that in some way.

A (17:51)

I love that perspective because we often treat God as a dirty word, I think, in our postmodern society.

B (17:58)

Well, there's a religion that's a dirty bathwater, you know, and all of us get clouded and blinded by that. And I've been in that boat as well. I didn't. I threw faith out when I was a young man as a. I didn't want anything to do with it because all I saw was all the people at school telling me to stop smoking behind the bike shed. And, like, you know, I didn't want any of that stuff. So I kind of threw the whole thing out. Bath water, dirty, begone. When actually the baby was amazing. We throw the baby out with the bathwater. It all goes. And it's been a lifetime journey to realize once you get rid of religion, stick with Jesus, who was the least religious person. You know, it's pretty interesting to think the period of greatest church growth in history was between 33 A.D. and 350 A.D. they didn't have a Bible, they didn't have a church. They never sung a song and there was never a sermon. Take those things away from your culture and your church, what are you left with? I'm not saying we should get rid of all of that, but it's interesting. The heart of faith is none of those things. The heart of faith has been that thief on the cross next to Jesus and saying in desperation, remember me.

A (19:12)

You know, that's an interesting perspective that I never really had considered, because I think what you're seeing right now with the re. Explosion of Christianity across Western civilization and this concept of revival, I think we're seeing led by young men more than any other demographic, has been rooted in a more traditional Religious sense of practicing Christianity. Here in America, young men are seeking out Catholicism in record numbers. That's been happening in the last year or so. And I'm hearing from most of the students I interact with on college campuses across all religious persuasions and different denominations of Christianity that they want something really substantive. They want that traditional sense of a tie to Jesus that's existing.

B (19:48)

Those are a framework. And I'm not saying the framework is bad, but it wasn't what Jesus offered people. Jesus wasn't coming saying, I'm going to sort your life out on Sunday or I'm going to make you dress like this or help you to smile more. It's like, be nice. And he wasn't. He was just bringing life, life and forgiveness. John the Baptist said the thing, he said, repent, repent and find life. And then Jesus came along and just said, come to me. Just come to me. Not say, come to church. Not saying come to a set of rules, not a set of behaviors, just come to me. You don't need a church, you don't need a building. You don't need a song or a sermon. I'm not saying they're wrong, but they're the dressing around it. Just come to me. It's all we need. It's not like most of what we need. It is all we need. You know, that thief on the cross didn't have most of it. He had all of it. And once then you reach that point, then it's great. I love to sing the odd song and I love to go in the old church and that's great. But it's not where my salvation's come from. My salvation has been on that cross next to Jesus and in desperation, looking into his eyes and saying, remember me, Jesus. I need nothing beyond that, that falling.

A (21:06)

To our knees in front of him, which is so missing from society but so, so needed, I think, and why people everywhere are so hungry for this message. You are not a first time author. You've written several books, but this is a pretty big departure from the last few books that you've written. Why tell this story now?

B (21:22)

Because there's such a hunger for not the religious side, but for truth and love and connection. And like I said, I've written lots of books. I'd give every single one up. I'd give every me all the stuff. I'd give it up in a heartbeat to have done this. Because it is what it says. It is the greatest story ever told. And most people don't know it. I mean, most people And I really mean 99.9% of the world, first of all, have never read the Bible and might know stories like the Nativity or that this guy called Jesus was crucified or the Good Samaritan, but they don't know the story, the real story, the actual why was everyday people so they would fight through crowds just to touch his cloak. Why? And why would the religious elite fear him so much? What was really going on? What was he really like? What would it have really been like to have seen and lived and followed and traveled and been. I mean, the amount of time Jesus spent, like preaching, I would put it, I would say is like 1%. I would put 99% of Jesus time spent walking with his friends and having fires alongside the Lake of Galilee and fishing and laughing, teasing each other, you know, and it's this story what was so magnetic about him. And I've written it because people don't know that story. And the reason I'm getting so much response from it from Muslims and all these different faiths is that they all say the same thing. I had no idea. I had no idea of actually what he was like as a person. And once you encounter it, it's why I've used his Aramaic names for everyone, you know, Yeshua and, you know, all these local names. Because I want people to come at it afresh without their expectations, you know, to not see it through our sanitized religious version of Jesus. It's all very nice when actually he was pretty ferocious at times, challenging, totally unpredictable.

A (23:35)

Must have been tough to follow. For sure. There is a TV show that has really broken the brains of many people in this country over the past few years, and that's called the Chosen. And in a similar way is somewhat editorializing without changing the message or the truth of the gospel, what it must have been like to see all of these things unfold in real time. And it has been a powerful transformation of how so many people envision Jesus and imagine those walking alongside the lake moments or those quiet preaching moments that he had with the apostles. Why choose to write this in an eyewitness perspective in that same way?

B (24:10)

Because first of all, the Chosen have been really kind to us. We've done a whole season of shows called Chosen in the Wild, where I took the chosen characters away on running Wild Star Journeys. So that partnership with them was. Came at a beautiful time with the book, the Come and See Foundation. And the theologians around the Chosen really helped me with this book, you know, crafted and make sure we get this absolutely right. But the key for me is that I didn't want to change a single word that Jesus spoke.

A (24:36)

Yeah.

B (24:36)

So in this, the. The bit when I really had such a strong feeling, like, clear the decks in your life and write this book. Nobody's ever done this before. Write it like the Jesus story is a Tom Clancy novel, you know, so. Okay, here we go. But I didn't want to make anything up. I didn't want to change a single word that Jesus said. So I lift from different versions of the. Of the New Testament and. And set the scenes with. But I don't change a single word. And that was kind of really important for me. And. And I think it's one of the things that's really working with it so people can authentically feel like they are recommending this is really. Is a Jesus story. But the Chosen is so great because we all have different roles. I think their thing was to point people towards the light, you know, so they've gone wider and broader. And it serves a brilliant purpose. And I think one of the most powerful things with the Chosen is actually just. It's not so much what he's saying and what they're all doing. It's like you feel him, feel his character, and Jonathan's like that. He portrays Jesus so beautifully. You sort of feel it. And I think that's one of the most powerful bits. As you watch it, regardless of what he's doing, you kind of feel like, I'd want to hang out with this guy. And again, it's so different from what we often grow up with, this kind of version of Jesus that it's just.

A (25:58)

Kind of not quite right and feels removed too. I think one of the reasons the Chosen has been so powerful, especially for young people in reimagining who Jesus is to them personally, is there is the visual element. You're not just reading words on a page, but you're seeing this story come to life. And that's one of the reasons I love your book too. You know, you mentioned it as a Tom Clancy novel, but it has this ability to be a page turner in many ways that I think sitting down to read the Bible can often feel like a chore instead.

B (26:27)

Very hard. And it's very hard to recommend to people.

A (26:30)

Yeah, it is.

B (26:30)

There's one thing, if you're someone of faith to say, this is really gonna be a good idea. Read maybe through the New Testament over a year or, you know, that's sort of legit. But it's hard when you're trying to share Your faith with people to say, read the Bible. And I've done that a few times said to people, and it's like they go. And it's hard. So this really sort of. I think what it's working as. And again, I hadn't anticipated the response to this. It's just so easy bridge for people into faith of saying, like, whatever you think you know about Jesus, read this as it will surprise you. And it's sort of short, sharp. Every chapter is two pages rather than 20. You know, I wrote it like I like to read, which is. I kind of read for two minutes and then fall asleep.

A (27:14)

It's a. It's a beautiful first spark and catalyst to get people to say, okay, now I have to read Scripture because I have to know the bigger story of all of this. And that's really what's been missing.

B (27:23)

Well, also. But at the end. But also it stands up. I think it sort of does both ends of the spectrum because I've had amazing, like, theologians from around the world write to me going, I open this thinking, oh, here we go, and finish going, wow, good job. And that's really down. And the chosen have been such a big part of that to really craft this right. So there are no kind of holes and inaccuracies in it. But it's like I say, I've never had a response to anything that I've done.

A (27:48)

Tell us more about that.

B (27:49)

Well, it's like, you know, you do TV shows. That's been. I love that. It's my day job, you know, like I said, I'm still doing it. That's. That's the day job. But this is different because it's like, this isn't my story. This is his story. This is history. That's what history is, his story. It's like. And it affects all of our lives. That's the thing. It's not. It's everyone viewing this now. It's your story. You know, all of our stories are wrapped up in his story. That's what's so amazing about Jesus is like, that's why I write it from these different perspectives. Because whether we're the broken or the nervous or the skeptic, you know, one of the sections is from Thomas, who's very skeptical, especially at the start of the journey when he meets this guy Yeshua, very kind of skeptical of a lot of it, through to Mary Magdalene at the end, who was so broken and so healed by this encounter with Jesus. Because it's all of our stories. And I like that because it's bigger than your stuff or my stuff. It's like bigger and better and it's like lasting and legacy stuff. By the way, this is a beautiful sight.

A (28:58)

It is. They did an amazing job.

B (28:59)

I mean, one of my dreams was like always to go to the Holy Land and I got to do it the year before I wrote this book and it was such a humbling journey. I actually got to skydive in to the sea again. No way. That is so cool. I get very nervous jumping still. Years ago I broke my back in a free fall accident when I was a soldier. And ever since then I still obviously skydive a lot for my job. In demand versus world and running rod and all these things. But I find it really scary. And every time I jump, jungles, deserts, mountains, I always quietly say in the back of, I go like this and I say, jesus, fly with me. Fly with me. And it gives me real confidence. And I go out that door and it's great. And I've done it for years. Fly with me. But here I got to. I had a, like, I didn't anticipate. I really sort of thought it was just a busy day. And then at the end we skydive, grabbed the shoe, went up, opened that door, looked down, see a Galileo like that, boom. Capernaum, you know, you know all these places like, oh, wow. And I went, Jesus, fly with me. And it was like tears. Like, this is one of the greatest moments of my life. Little moment. But like, so I don't know. For me, faith is undeniable. And then the next day I wake up and it's like, no, it's mad. I can't be right.

A (30:18)

Which is the journey. Right? Of course. I think everyone does. And you know, St. Augustine said centuries ago that the real journey of faith is knowing the deeper your faith is, the more questions you're going to have. And the more questions you have, the more faith you're going to have. And that's the cycle that you have for the rest of your life. It's always deeper and more powerful.

B (30:36)

The more you have, the more questions.

A (30:38)

Always it's just a never ending journey.

B (30:39)

But I feel that.

A (30:40)

I feel that I will never forget watching bear Grylls eat a live tree frog and live spiders and the craziest things out in the wilderness. But these days I am so grateful that even though we all deal with that annoying bloating and gut discomfort that just won't go away after e anything in America, you know, the usual advice, eat slower, walk after meals avoid processed foods and that helps sometimes, but most of the time we feel so gross. Thank God we have Colostrum and Cowboy Colostrum specifically. It's that liquid gold first milk that is packed with proteins, growth factors and antimicrobial peptides that all work together to boost your immunity, reduce your inflammation and actually repair your gut lining. To cut down on bloating, today's sponsor, Cowboy Colostrum offers the highest quality bovine colostrum available. Available here in the United States, Cowboy colostrum is 100% made in America from grass fed cows. And here's what makes it really different. They don't over process or strip their colostrum like other brands do. They keep it whole and full fat for maximum nutrient density. Just add a scoop of their chocolate, vanilla or strawberry flavor to your coffee or smoothie and you'll get all of those natural growth factors that can help keep your hair and skin looking amazing. I have loved taking a scoop of their vanilla flavor in particular and adding it to my coffee in the mornings. It's made a world of difference where I I need all the help I can get with my hair and my skin. As a new mom who frankly could use a lot more hours of sleep for a limited time, our listeners could get up to 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboycolostrum.com Isabelle and use code ISABEL at checkout. That is 25% a big chunk off your order when you use code isabel@cowboycolostrum.com Isabelle after you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them and who sent you. So please support our show and let them know the Isabel Brown show sent you. You know, I'm curious to get your perspective on the Holy Land. The first time that I saw the Sea of Galilee and many of the other biblical sites, obviously it's awe inspiring and you see the Bible come to life in three dimensions and color and it feels so tangible versus some words that you're reading on a piece of paper that you've always seen for your entire life. But I also was very struck at how small some of the sites were. Right. The Sea of Galilee, you picture this massive unending body of water and it's a natural LAKE that's about 8 miles long. CAPERNAUM is a stone's throw from all of the other villages that you read about in the New Testament. You could walk there very easily, relatively speaking. And I thought that actually despite being smaller and bringing things more humbling back down to earth, that deepened my faith in really powerful ways when I visited the Holy Land for the first time because it was real. It wasn't this fantastical story far into the realm of fiction that humanity could never begin to touch. These were real places that you can still visit and touch today.

B (33:27)

So true. And you can feel it. You can feel it. You know, it's. And, and that he just walked. They walked everywhere. And I had like special moments. We were there a week before October 7th. Wow. And it was just like felt meant to be in, you know, and that we got it done at that time. But I got baptized in the River Jordan.

A (33:50)

I've been to that site, it's beautiful.

B (33:52)

And that water, like, you know, it's like that. That was moving for me, but it's pretty incredible. And it almost feels like yesterday that he would have walked along that. I mean, I got, you know, I took a motorbike, a tent, a parachute and a couple of buddies and we, we did a show called to for TBN called Refugee Renegade Redeemer where we sort of followed the footsteps of Jesus and told the stories. And you know, it's. I loved really ignited and was the start of the book really. But just to sit on the shores of Sea of Galilee swimming in. We lit fires and cooked fish and. It's hard to explain.

A (34:35)

It is. Unless you have the privilege to visit, which I hope every, every person who follows the story of Christ gets a chance to at some point. I love how your story is rooted in the idea of thrill seeking adventure and putting yourself in almost dangerous situations to challenge the limits of human beings. What we can handle, what we're capable of and what we can survive in. Western culture in America and the UK and really across Europe and Canada and Australia, New Zealand. We're comfortable in everything that we do. It's extremely comfortable. You can have your favorite pharmaceutical drug delivered to your door in two hours from Amazon these days in America, but we're getting a crash course really lately in the last year or so in the idea that Christianity is supposed to be dangerous. And it was promised to us that it's supposed to be dangerous. That element of persecution and being willing to lay your life down for others and for your faith. How have you learned more about that and the story of Christ through writing this book?

B (35:32)

Well, I think we're not called to comfort. We're called to follow wherever. You know, sometimes it might be in good times and sometimes bad times, but I don't know. I just think I've learned in the wild over the years, there's time for comfort for sure. But in the, if you're static nature, everything decays. You know, water needs movement, little pools of the jungles, bacteria, you know, needs. There's no, you know, you need that in life. I think we're designed like that. We're designed, all of us, men, women, we're designed to thrive and challenge, you know, and to be out of that comfort zone. I mean, I call it a comfort pit. You've got to get out of the pit fast. You know, it's a time for a little bit of pit, time to recover and rest, which is important. But we're designed to be warriors, all of us. We're designed, it's how we've survived and thrived over millennia. You know, we're our best when we're stretched, when we're facing those fears head on, side by side together, moving forward towards the difficult stuff. And I think faith is part of that as well. We're not called to sit and just get comfy. And we have the best examples of that. I mean, look at Christ, how his life, you look at the disciples. I mean, the other thing, by the way, about the disciples, it was shocking for me. Researching the greatest story ever told was realising their ages. The average age of the disciples was like 15 to 25. You always think they're like old bearded men, which I suppose they did eventually become. But their disciples were like young, you know, and they're in at the deep end, totally ill prepared. But like how they then lived their lives. I mean, one of the things people love in the book is I do a thing at the end of what happened to all the disciples, you followed them and then it's, you know, they were not comfortable, they traveled the world and they were all, to a man, you know, martyred for their faith. You know, they were courage personified, all in Paul. I mean, look at his life. I mean, he, they say was unrecognizable at the end of his life because he was so broken from the beatings and the torture. You know, I don't know, just I look through the centuries, the courage of men and women standing up not for religion, but for the way of love. And that's what sets our faith apart. We're a faith rooted in kindness and humility and sacrifice and love and that's, you know, it's world changing.

A (38:14)

Just like you jumping out of a helicopter or an airplane thinking this is so against human nature. I love that about our faith, that we are called to lay down our lives when our immediate instinct is to Protect them by any means necessary, and to run away from danger. It makes me think of the Gospel of John, how it ends with Jesus looking after he's been resurrected at the apostles and saying, follow me. And it's going to get really uncomfortable in this process. You know exactly where you're going. You're going to have a fate a lot like mine. And as you mentioned, all of them but one were brutally martyred for their faith. What can we learn from them? How can we become comfortable with being uncomfortable and get out of that pit to fearlessly defend truth and love in a world that often attacks it?

B (38:58)

I think just again, it goes back to what we said at the start. Know where your foundations are. Know where your anchor is. You're not going to get courage from putting your foundations in fame or social media or success or any of that stuff. It's not going to give you courage, not real courage, you know, so having deep foundations and going to the right, well, draw, draw from the water where it's really going to be good and living and give you courage, you know, so these are all simple things. And we're preaching, both of us to ourselves as well, because that's a daily thing to try and find that, you know, and like I say, sort of fail often, you know, I really very sort of conscious and not doing sort of religious programs and podcasts that kind of like, are just sort of an echo chamber of like, we're great, you know, I really, really struggle with many, many things, you know, and we need each other. And like, I really try not to complicate my faith more than just, you know, again, like I say, being that thief on the cross, reach out the hand. And, you know, and the hope for the book is that people kind of find that part of the real part of faith, the stuff that really inspires human hearts for life, not for religion, but for life.

A (40:14)

In researching and writing the greatest story ever told, did you learn anything unexpected? What leapt out at you as maybe something you hadn't considered before when reading scripture or a story that you'd read a million times before but never thought about from a different vantage point?

B (40:28)

I think just how human both Jesus was and the disciples were and how clueless and also the elements of doubt that was there. You know, if you think one of the things I found really interesting is that John the Baptist, nobody knew Jesus better than John the Baptist. You know, they were friends from the beginning, even in each other's mother's womb. It says that when Mary walked in, John the John, he Was kicking.

A (40:54)

Boom.

B (40:55)

This guy, mom, this guy, you know, like, they were thick as thieves from the beginning. And Jesus said, there has never been a prophet greater than John. You know, we always think of great prophets, but actually the. The wild one in the desert, Jesus saying, there's never been a greater man than John the Baptist. And yet when John was in that dungeon facing torture and death before being beheaded, and he got one chance to see his followers, the one thing he wanted them to go back to Jesus, back to his best friend and cousin. Go to Jesus and just ask him once more, are you the one? Even John the Baptist had doubts. For me, it's so reassuring, you know, and then Jesus is like, this is my son. The clouds part. And, you know, so little moments like that touch me. The centurion at the end. At the end of the crucifixion, the first ever convert to Christianity after Jesus is killed is a Roman. First Roman to find Jesus is the centurion who crucified him, who looks at him and goes, truly, this guy is the son of God. It's pretty amazing, you know, little moments like that that I never knew. These moments growing up, I always kind of hear just the big stories, but it's the little stories that have moved me through this book.

A (42:29)

That concept of martyrdom, I think, is ringing around in a lot of people's heads lately. We're hearing some news stories out of Nigeria that tens of thousands of Christians are being killed for their faith and currently martyred. That hasn't gone away 2000 years later. I think we often associate martyrdom with the John the Baptist or people in the early church, the early Roman Empire. We watched a young man defend the gospel here on a college campus in America and be violently assassinated just a few weeks ago. And that has spurred something in people to be more bold, to be more courageous, to tell the greatest story ever told. How can we continue tapping into that? And what message of encouragement do you have for young people across the west today?

B (43:09)

There's such power in finding courage within and standing up. You know, that doesn't mean like getting super religious or having to sort of, you know, shout about anything, but love is courageous. Sharing love and light and friendship. And that's how Jesus did it. Broke bread with people, loved them, laughed with them, affirmed them, and shared truth with them gently. And that's a great thing, you know? Yes, it's courage, but that's okay to be courageous in life, you know, what is courage? Being scared and then doing it anyway. All these people you've mentioned heroes. You know, look at all those stories in Nigeria. I mean, the world is full of incredible, brave, unknown stories of quiet courage, people standing up for their faith, and it's inspiring and incredible. Yeah, heroes.

A (44:06)

Heroes indeed. Just as you are to many people around the world. And thank you so much for sharing your testimony of faith and the greatest Story ever told. Where can people buy the book and make sure that they still catch you in your day job too, Bear?

B (44:19)

Yeah, well, the day job continues. People find the book. The book doesn't need. The nice thing is it doesn't need any. Doesn't need pointing to anywhere. People find it, share it, and it's been a blessing.

A (44:31)

Thank you. God bless you and thank you so much for joining us on the show.

B (44:34)

Thank you guys.

A (44:35)

Thank you again, Bear, for joining us here on set in our beautiful holy land setting. We are praying for you through every single second of this exciting adventure of yours. And do not forget to pick up your copy of the Greatest Story Ever Told.

B (44:48)

Sure.

A (44:48)

That we're linking that in the description of today's episode. Hit that subscribe button wherever you are watching or listening to catch tomorrow's episode of the Isabelle Brown Show.

B (45:09)

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