Don Lemon Harasses Church & Michael Knowles Debunks Christian Zionism

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Isabel Brown Show

Episode: Don Lemon Harasses Church & Michael Knowles Debunks Christian Zionism
Date: January 20, 2026
Host: Isabel Brown (The Daily Wire)
Guests: Michael Knowles, Daniel Apollos, Don Lemon (clips), Harmeet Dhillon (clips)

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Overview

This episode of The Isabel Brown Show explores two intense cultural and religious flashpoints:

1. The controversial protest led by Don Lemon and left-wing activists at a Minneapolis church, and
2. The uproar surrounding a joint statement by Christian leaders in Jerusalem denouncing Christian Zionism as false theology—an issue clarified and debated with guest Michael Knowles.

The show blends on-the-ground reporting, legal/constitutional analysis, and in-depth theological discussion, culminating in a comparison of how religious and political identities shape the current American and Christian landscape.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Don Lemon and the Minneapolis Church Protest

• Background:
  Don Lemon attended and reported on a disruptive protest targeting City’s Church, a Southern Baptist congregation in Minneapolis, after rumors that one of its pastors was secretly an ICE officer. Protestors made accusations, shouted slogans, and interrupted the worship service, demanding congregants ‘stand up’ for “Somali and Latino communities.”
  ([00:21]–[04:53])

• Escalation:
  Lemon is seen confronting the lead pastor, Jonathan Parnell, and justifies the protest with First Amendment arguments, even as frightened families and children flee the church. ([04:53]–[12:31])

• Notable Quotes:

  • "Protesting is all about creating trauma for people, making trauma for children in the middle of their church."
    — Don Lemon ([12:07])
  • "My job is to take care of my congregation. Respectfully, you need to leave. This is not an appropriate venue."
    — Jonathan Parnell, Lead Pastor ([08:34])

• Host Commentary (Isabel):
  Isabel decries the “toxic empathy” motivating such protests, mocking Lemon’s self-presentation as a Christian, and sharply distinguishes between lawful protest and religious harassment.

• Double Standards & First Amendment:
  Isabel critiques Lemon for weaponizing free speech, highlighting the contradiction: Pro-lifers praying outside abortion clinics are prosecuted, but churchgoers aren’t protected from similar disruptions.

  • "Your free speech does not get to trample upon someone else's free speech."
    — Isabel Brown ([08:47])

• Legal & Federal Response:
  Harmeet Dhillon (Assistant Attorney General) announces on the Benny Johnson show that federal charges—including potential FACE Act and Ku Klux Klan Act violations—will be pursued against those involved in harassing worshippers, possibly including Lemon. ([42:35])

• Key Moment:
  Protestors at one point mistake Lemon for an ICE supporter and shout “white supremacist” at him before realizing he is on their side—highlighting the chaos and confusion within the activist ranks.
  ([18:19]–[18:50])

Timestamps of Interest

• [07:51] Lemon’s on-site confrontation with Pastor Parnell
• [12:07] Lemon declares, “That’s what protesting is about.”
• [14:53] Lemon’s defensive selfie video
• [18:19] Protest confusion; Lemon called “white supremacist”
• [42:35] DOJ and Harmeet Dhillon announce federal investigation

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2. The Christian Zionism Controversy

• Event:
  Patriarchs and heads of the historic churches in Jerusalem issue a joint statement denouncing Christian Zionism as a damaging ideology and clarifying that only the historic churches represent Christians in the Holy Land.
  ([44:00]–[52:58])

• Full Denominational Backing:
  Signatories include Greek Orthodox, Latin (Catholic), Armenian, Coptic, Maronite, Melkite, Anglican, Lutheran, among others.

• Key Statement Excerpt:
  "Recent activities… who advance damaging ideologies such as Christian Zionism… mislead the public, sow confusion, and harm the unity of our flock… Such actions constitute interference in the internal life of the churches."
  — Joint Letter ([44:00])

Michael Knowles Debunks Christian Zionism

• Context & Reaction:
  Knowles explains this is a reaffirmation of ancient Christian teaching, not a new anti-Semitic or anti-Israel stance. He distinguishes religious support for Israel (which the Church does not teach) from political alliances (which are legitimate based on international law).
  ([53:55]–[65:23])

• Notable Quotes:

  • "Support for the state of Israel is just like I support the state of Italy."
    — Michael Knowles ([54:55])
  • "Zionism as an ideology… is just not persuasive… It’s not part of our theology."
    — Michael Knowles ([57:26})
  • "Rather than try to condemn the patriarchs as anti-Semitic… I think it really behooves the state of Israel to give Christians an alternative to this very particular 19th-century heresy."
    — Michael Knowles ([59:18])

• Theology Discussion:

  • Isabel and Michael discuss how Christianity sees itself as the fulfillment of Judaism, and how Christian Zionism is historically a Protestant (not Catholic/Orthodox) innovation—rooted in 19th-century dispensationalism, not traditional doctrine.
  • Michael explains layered biblical understanding: literal, allegorical, moral, and anagogical. ([65:23]–[72:56])

Secular/Political Support for Israel

• Both agree it is legitimate to support Israel as a pragmatic Western ally and custodian of Christian sites, but theological claims about divine right are outside historic Christian teaching.
• J.D. Vance example cited: “It is in our best interest to have a relationship with a country that preserves Christian heritage sites.”
  ([74:03])

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3. Further Discussion & Perspectives

Daniel Apollos (the "Jewish Catholic") on Pints with Aquinas

• Apollos traces the biblical and theological reasons why Christian Zionism and dispensationalism are unfounded, emphasizing God’s always “one people” under covenant, not a permanent dualism between Jews and Gentiles.
  ([81:10]–[87:51])

  • "God has always had one people… Christian Zionism promotes the concept of there being multiple peoples of God when it’s not the case."
    — Daniel Apollos ([81:28])

Broader Themes

• Toxic Empathy & Secular Religion:
  Isabel reiterates the dangers of “toxic empathy” and “ism-based” replacement religions, warning that fervor for political causes is supplanting foundational Judeo-Christian values in the American public square.

• Persecution Double Standard:
  Federal law (FACE Act) is inconsistently applied, with pro-lifers penalized for peaceful prayer but agitators against churches facing, until now, little response.

• Pop-Culture Reaction:
  Notably, even pop star Nicki Minaj calls for Lemon’s prosecution—illustrating how the protest transcended political lines.

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Notable Quotes Summary

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 08:47 | Isabel Brown | “Your free speech does not get to trample upon someone else’s free speech.” | | 12:07 | Don Lemon | “That’s what protesting is all about... creating trauma for people… for children in the middle of their church.” | | 14:53 | Don Lemon | (on criticism) “We did an act of journalism... It’s called Journalism First Amendment, all that stuff.…” | | 18:36 | Protestor to Lemon | “White supremacist agenda!” (before realizing who he is) | | 57:26 | Michael Knowles | “Zionism as an ideology is just not very persuasive, I think…” | | 67:02 | Michael Knowles | “[Christian Zionism] is a Protestant thing... It’s based on the theological innovations of the 19th century.” | | 81:28 | Daniel Apollos | “God has always had one people. Christian Zionism... is wrong because these ideas promote the concept of there being multiple peoples of God.” |

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:35] Protestors demand congregants explain why they're not “protecting Somali and Latino communities.”
• [07:51] Pastor Parnell calmly withstands Lemon’s on-camera challenge.
• [12:07] Don Lemon explicitly connects protest to intentionally causing trauma.
• [14:53] Lemon defends himself, shifts blame, and calls it “journalism.”
• [18:36] Protestors call Lemon a “white supremacist.”
• [42:35] Harmeet Dhillon on federal prosecution, FACE Act, and Klan Act.
• [53:55] Michael Knowles debunks misconceptions about the Jerusalem church statement and Christian Zionism.
• [62:06] Knowles outlines secular vs. religious reasons for supporting Israel.
• [67:02] In-depth Catholic/Orthodox interpretation of new vs. old covenant.
• [81:28] Daniel Apollos (Jewish Catholic) rebuts dispensationalism, details “one people of God” theology.

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Memorable, Character-Setting Moments

• Don Lemon’s “journalistic” confrontation with Pastor Parnell and Lemon being mistaken for an enemy by other protestors are both highlighted as moments underscoring the confusion and radicalism of modern activism.
• Isabel’s sharp, sometimes sarcastic commentary lampoons the self-righteousness and “NPC” mentality of left-wing protesters.
• Knowles’ humorous and practical analogy of choosing “pastrami sandwiches over shawarma” as a metaphor for American Jewish affinity and Middle East pragmatism.
• Daniel Apollos’ biblical and historical deep dive—countering the idea of dual-covenant theology.
• Isabel’s comparison of Christian Zionism with land acknowledgment rituals at college graduation, connecting identity politics and modern theological discourse.

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Conclusion

Isabel Brown closes by affirming the need for nuanced, open conversation about faith, politics, and society—especially on divisive issues like church protests and Christian Zionism. She previews upcoming coverage on the Trump administration's second year, and encourages defending the space for complex debate.

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For listeners:
This episode explores not only constitutional and religious freedoms being tested in America, but also the contours of Christian theological identity and its intersection with modern politics. Isabel, Michael Knowles, and Daniel Apollos collectively push back against simplistic narratives—placing respect for tradition, reasoned debate, and honest theological nuance at the show’s core.

Transcript

[Isabelle Brown]

When you want your spring break to feel like and your kids pool day to feel like and your hotel bed to feel like.

[Michael Knowles]

Ooh.

[Isabelle Brown]

And room service to feel like. Because at Hilton hospitality feels like your cabana's ready.

[Daniel Apollos]

Would you like fresh towels?

[Isabelle Brown]

It matters where you stay. Book [e-mail] Hilton for this day is Ben Shapiro set to fire Michael Knowles from the Daily Wire after he covered Christian Zionism in a shocking way yesterday on his show, as did, by the way, Matt Frad, our newest Daily Wire host of Pints with Aquinas. Michael joins us later to talk all about his thoughts on Christian Zionism and his future on the Internet. Plus, turns out you might not even be able to go to church in America anymore, at least not in if Don Lemon, bastion of Christianity and journalistic integrity, has anything to say about it. Everything we know about what happened over the weekend in Minneapolis and what the Department of Justice is doing about it today on the Isabelle Brown Show. Before we get to the insane controversy of Christian zionism and where Mr. Michael Knowles and others were at in breaking the Internet yesterday, I'm sure you guys have probably seen at this point that Don Lemon, bastion of virtue and journalistic integrity, just one of the nicest, most quality people you will ever meet in your life, also happened to break the Internet in the last few days because because of his behavior taking part in an anti iced protest that just stormed a Minneapolis church on Sunday morning and threatened the congregation by screaming all of the classic slogans, justice for Renee Good. Hands up, don't shoot all of it. Again. I'm sure you've all seen these videos by now because they are everywhere. But in case you missed it or you just need the refresher, this was going viral over the past few days on Twitter of this mob of anti ice extremists storming a church in Minneapolis called Cities Church. I believe this is a Baptist church, although don't quote me on that. Feel free to fact check me. Where they just disrupted the worship service and started hurling accusations at the leadership of the church that one of the pastors is also an ICE agent, which is why this church in particular was targeted. This video has 1.3 million views and I can only imagine how scary it was and in the moment. Watch this. Renee good. Renee good. Renee good. Where are you? Where are you? Where are you? Where are your people? Why are you not at Wibble every day fighting for the humanity, standing for our people? Where are you?

[Michael Knowles]

You drink your coffee, you got your.

[Isabelle Brown]

Jewelry, you have your nice clothes, but what do you do what. What do you do to stand for.

[Michael Knowles]

Your Somali and Latino communities? I'm not going to comment. You have no comment. Exactly.

[Isabelle Brown]

Say your name. Say your name. Say your name.

[Daniel Apollos]

Renee.

[Isabelle Brown]

Good. Say your name, Renee. Okay. So they just walk into church, they interrupt the entire service. They start harassing the pastor, the lead pastor of this church, as some sort of evil white supremacist guy, targeting him. And then they start targeting all of the people sitting in the congregation, asking and demanding, why aren't you out in the streets protecting your Somali brothers and sisters? And they're like, dude, I'm literally just at church on Sunday morning. I'm just here to worship God. I don't. This is not the venue for that. There's another video taken from a different point of view as one of these people protesting, even want to use the word protesting. I. I would much rather call this harassment. One of these people harassing these churchgoers is explaining in real time, actually what they're doing. This is again from the city's church in Minneapolis on Sunday morning. Ahaha, here we go. It's a Southern Baptist Convention church. I was right. It is a Baptist church. And they are alleging that the church's. One of the church's lead pastors is secretly an ICE agent.

[Don Lemon]

So you can see the protesters here are. Have gathered over here. They're in the middle of the church. During the beginning of the service, the pastor was speaking and Nakima stood up and said her piece, and then the protesters surrounded her. But this is a clandestine mission. I think they found out one of. According to them, this is, according to Operation Pull up, that one of the pastors here is a member of ice. And so here we go.

[Isabelle Brown]

So you can hear over all of the screaming there, the person explaining what's going on calls this a clandestine mission, which is insane behavior, by the way, where they're doing the Lord's work, clearly in exposing just how evil this church congregation is. And they express their position that the people interrupting church services are doing so to just say their peace. Michael Knowles articulated this beautifully, and he's going to be on the show later today. But he articulated this yesterday on his podcast that if you believe In Christianity, this 100% makes sense to you. And if you are not a Christian and you don't believe in Jesus Christ, you might be thinking, how on earth is this happening? It is so obvious to me why they are targeting these churches and calling it clandestine missions. Because 100% this is initiated from the enemy in an attempt to foment. Chaos and so division and create violence in our society, targeting Christians specifically. And this is bad enough, right? This is one of these organized left wing funded groups. I guarantee you these people were probably being paid to be at this particular point protest, which again is really just harassing people going to church on Sunday morning as if that's going to radically transform our government policy related to immigration and customs enforcement. But what was really weird about this specific protest is that journalist, and I hesitate even calling him that at this point because I think he's lost any remote shred of credibility that a single cell in his body had left. Journalist Don Lemon was a hallmark face of this harassment, of this terrorism. Many are arguing, getting in the face in the middle of this protest of Jonathan Parnell, who is the lead pastor at city's church in Minneapolis. And he harasses this pastor saying, well, did you try to talk to any of these people? Did you ask them what their grievances are? And then has the audacity to yell at the pastor not to touch him as he's like getting in the pastor's face. I wish I, I could even articulate this better myself. But watching it yourself is going to be the best possible way to understand this. So in case you have missed this clip, Here you go.

[Don Lemon]

What do you think of it?

[Jonathan Parnell]

I mean, this is unacceptable. It's shameful. It's shameful to, to interrupt a public gathering of Christians in worship.

[Michael Knowles]

So.

[Jonathan Parnell]

But there were folks who I have to take care of my flock. Okay, but listen, we live in a.

[Don Lemon]

There's a constitution in the first Amendment to freedom of speech and freedom to assemble and protest.

[Jonathan Parnell]

We're here to worship. We're here to worsh Jesus because that's the hope of these cities, that's the hope of the world is Jesus Christ. I'm gonna be very respectful.

[Don Lemon]

Please don't push me though.

[Jonathan Parnell]

We're here. We're here to worship Jesus. That's why we're here. Okay? That's why we're here. That's what we're about.

[Don Lemon]

Don't you think Jesus would be understanding?

[Jonathan Parnell]

And we're about love these folks, we're about spreading the love of Jesus.

[Don Lemon]

But did you try to talk to them as a Christ?

[Jonathan Parnell]

One is willing to talk, okay? I have to take care of my church and my family. So I asked that you actually would also leave this building. You don't want us to chronicle unless you're here to worship.

[Don Lemon]

I'm always worship. I'm a Christian.

[Jonathan Parnell]

We're here. Well, we're here to worship.

[Isabelle Brown]

We're here to worship.

[Jonathan Parnell]

Okay, thank you very much.

[Isabelle Brown]

I'm a Christian, says Don Lemon. Are you? I will never judge someone's personal faith journey, but I think it begs an interesting question. Are you? And as the alleged spokesperson of Christianity, Don Lemon, is getting in the face of this Baptist pastor, Jonathan Parnell, the lead pastor at City's Church, Minneapolis, saying, well, as a Christian, don't you think Jesus would love people enough to let them illegally immigrate to other countries? As a Christian, don't you think Jesus would go talk to the people screaming in your congregant's face and physically threatening them as a Christian? Da, da, da, da, da. Of course, this pastor handles this beautifully. He has a lot more grace than the average person, certainly probably more than I would have in this particular situation. And you can see the Holy Spirit working through this moment. He says, look politely. It is my job to take care of my congregation. And respectfully, you need to leave. And this is not an appropriate venue for something like this happening. This is Sunday morning worship service. I have to take care of my family. I have to take care of this church. I'm asking respectfully, that you leave the building. And you see Don Lemon recoil in, like, horror. Don't push me, dude. You're the one getting in a pastor's face, screaming at him about what a real Christian would actually do in the middle of Sunday worship. And you probably heard in the middle there that Don Lemon specifically cites the First Amendment as his reasoning for doing this. Well, we live in a country, Pastor, with a constitution that tells us we have the right to protest these things in society. By definition, the First Amendment to the Constitution covers your right to protest the government, to air your grievances against the government, but it does not mean that you can interrupt someone else's First Amendment rights to freedom of religion and freedom of assembly and freedom of speech, as they are protected to do so and call it your own First Amendment rights. That has literally always been a hallmark trait of constitutional law, and specifically free speech law. Your free speech does not get to trample upon someone else's free speech. Really, what you're doing here in interrupting a church service to protest the government, is it so much called a protest? It's really called domestic terrorism, honestly. And the Department of Justice seems to agree. We'll get to that in a second. But Don Lemon not only gets in this pastor's face and is screaming at him about constitutional law and what Jesus. What would Jesus do? What would Jesus Obviously do. He actually films himself and then puts these videos out, thinking this is going to be like a good look for him. I guess somebody desperately needs to be hired as a better PR manager for this man, especially if he's trying to rebrand himself as the spokesperson of Christianity. This clip shows him literally watching children flee the church in the middle of this so called protest. And he says protesting is all about creating trauma for people, making trauma for children in the middle of their church. Don't take my word for it. This is Don Lemon saying this himself.

[Don Lemon]

Watch this guy here, look, hugging his kid. And you know, I imagine it's uncomfortable and traumatic for the people here, but again, careful, it's very slippery right here. It's uncomfortable and traumatic for the people here. But that's what. Really careful, please. Really slippery. Not kidding. That's what protesting is about. And so.

[Isabelle Brown]

That'S what protesting is all about. Out there with his beanie and his puffy coat and his little DJI microphone, can someone say, you're trying to be the new Nick Shirley without having to say it like, good luck, buddy, you're still the establishment media. No one trusts you for a reason. The same way that we all trust someone like Nick Shirley. And then he gets in his car and. And not only does he not apologize for saying that trauma, creating trauma for children is what protesting is all about, he goes even further, he doubles down, he triples down and says that protesting is all about making people uncomfortable. You might not like it, but getting in someone's face and screaming at them in the middle of their Sunday morning worship service is what the First Amendment is all about. Apparently you heard what some of the.

[Don Lemon]

Folks said in there. You know, that this is, they shouldn't be there and, you know, they shouldn't be uncomfortable. And this is our house. And whatever that's what protesting is about is to make people uncomfortable. You may not like it, but I mean, if they went into a church, you know, any church, you might not like it.

[Isabelle Brown]

You might not like it, but it's our job as protesters as good people to go harass, threaten and terrify people as they exhibit their First Amendment rights on Sunday morning at church. Because real history is made when you make people uncomfortable. Naturally, this elicited quite the response from people all across the political spectrum saying, yeah, no, not on board with this. This is not how we handle these situations. Whether people are all in on what the Trump administration is doing with mass deportations, or they're wildly uncomfortable with ICE and they're out in the Streets protesting these things across the board. Luckily, most Americans have enough moral clarity to be like, that wasn't it Don Lemon? But instead of apologizing, homeboy sits down and he starts making a selfie video of himself again wearing his beanie, trying so hard to be like the new Nick Shirley. I'm selfie recording myself with a handheld microphone. I'm so cool as an independent journalist and the bastion of Christianity to doesn't apologize, doubles down and triples down. Listen to this.

[Don Lemon]

MAGA administration and the fake news magazine are losing their mind over something that's not even true. So let me just make it clear because this a assistant Attorney General, I don't know, gosh, what's her name, something Hemet.

[Isabelle Brown]

Dylan or whatever.

[Michael Knowles]

So.

[Don Lemon]

I have no affiliation to that organization. I didn't even know they were going to this church until we followed them there. We were there chronicling protests. Once the protest started in the church, we did an act of journalism, which was report on it and talk to the people who were involved, which included the pastor, members of the church, and members of the organization.

[Michael Knowles]

That's it.

[Don Lemon]

It's called Journalism First Amendment, all that stuff. All of you people who believe in the First Amendment, absolutist, there you go. So why don't you talk to the actual person who is in charge of the organization and whose idea it was to have the protest at the church before you start blaming me for stuff for which you have no idea about. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

[Isabelle Brown]

Yeah, sounds like you're being pretty freaking defensive, Don Lemon, and acting like you're so, so street. So like casual, independent, non establishment journalist not knowing the Assistant Attorney General's name, but you know her position. I'm not buying that for a second that you don't know who Harmeet Dylan is. Again, you have been part of the legacy political establishment media for a very long time. This man is 59 years old. This is a literal 60 year old trying to replicate what 22 year olds are doing wearing their hoodies and going around door to door doing actual investigative journalism, trying to be like, I didn't even know this was happening. I just did an act of journalism, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean, and followed these people into a church. It's not my fault. Don't blame me. But while you're at it, if you're a free speech absolutist, you have to talk about these things. You have to believe in my right to do all of this stuff. Yeah, this is the same guy who Just a few years ago, was interviewing Elon Musk when he purchased X and grilling him about free speech absolutism, saying that we desperately need more restrictions on free speech, that we should be prosecuting people for misinformation and hate speech. Literally says that verbatim while interviewing Elon Musk. And then a few years later, when he's fallen out of grace from the mainstream media and is desperately trying to cling to relevance as the literal definition of, okay, Boomer is now like, oh, I'm a free speech absolutist, and all of you guys have to defend my right to go harass people at church on Sunday morning because the First Amendment, because I'm just doing an act of journalism. Sadly, though, there are people who are defending this behavior from Don Lemon. And the amazing thing is, these people don't even know who they are protesting. There's another clip going viral of the protesters, the harassers, the arguably domestic terrorists, running up to Don Lemon and conflating him with somebody not on their side. They're saying, clearly they thought Don Lemon was an ICE supporter, and they start screaming F off in his face before they realize that he's actually on their side and he's there to give credibility to their movement. Watch this, because this is absolutely amazing.

[Don Lemon]

So now this is where we have been in that lot, and they blocked it off. Do we know why? I don't know why they blocked that off because we were able to come through and park there. So I don't know how.

[Isabelle Brown]

White supremacist.

[Don Lemon]

What's that gonna mean?

[Isabelle Brown]

White supremacist agenda.

[Don Lemon]

Why do you say that? No, me, dude.

[Isabelle Brown]

I'm. I'm. I'm here.

[Michael Knowles]

Whose team are you on?

[Don Lemon]

Come on, man. This is Don Lemon.

[Isabelle Brown]

All right.

[Michael Knowles]

Sorry, brother.

[Isabelle Brown]

I am dying. I'm dying. Literally screams in his face to a black guy that he's a white supremacist and is part of a white supremacist agenda. Some of his fellow comrades at this protest are like, no, no, this is Don Lemon. Don't you know? He's on our team. He's on our team. Oh, sorry, brother. Let me clap you on the arm. These people are such NPCs, they have no original thoughts for themselves whatsoever. They're all just comrade communist foot soldiers that are paid more often than not to propagandize to the point that they're just, like, violently reactive at all times. They genuinely just want to punch you in the face at all times. And I have no doubt in my mind that that probably would have happened if these church congregants hadn't just left their own congregation on Sunday morning. Somebody probably would have been harassed, violently hurt, punched in the face, destruction of property. Who knows? That is where this is escalating to at all times. Because this level of twisting of empathy to a point that is toxic empathy as beautifully articulated by Ali Beth Stuckey or suicidal empathy if you're more of a gad sad person, which I'm so excited for his book on this subject, by the way. I think it's going to be really interesting. We have gaslit an entire generation of people mostly who are in their 40s and 50s, which is really embarrassing for them to genuinely believe that the only way to be a good person is to literally be a bad person. Like that's the simplest way you could possibly articulate this. And now they're so proud of this behavior. They're so unapologetic about the things that they are doing. They don't realize that they're just outing themselves for being a part of this harassment and this clear violation of other people's First Amendment rights. These people are bragging about it on Facebook. The Facebook grandmas are out there making posts like this one from Nakima Levy Armstrong friends she posts on Facebook. Here is a clip of our demonstration this morning at city's church in St. Paul. David Easterwood is a pastor at this church and the acting field director for the ICE office in St. Paul. It is time for judgment to begin and it will begin in the house of of God. Three exclamation points. Thank you to all of the activists who showed up and independent journalists and then tags all these people. Georgia Fort Don Lemon Dook Farmer 2 Brixton Hughes Special thanks to Monique Cuers, Doty Chantill Allen Satara Strong Allen for co organizing this mission from oh shocking Color me surprised. Black Lives Matter Minnesota and and Black Lives Matter Twin Cities Metro along with Racial Justice Network, Black Fist, Black Prayer Hands, Purple Heart. No wonder they're screaming hands up, don't shoot. Because of course it is the same agitators and so called independent activists and independent journalists who were paid years ago in places like Minneapolis to create chaos and sow distrust and create violence for people to confront all the white people at that time over George Floyd who are now making all of this about Renee Good and so called protecting the Somalis in the community and individuals of minority races who are clearly being targeted by the big bad ICE officers who are just indiscriminately killing people in the streets of Minneapolis. They're tagging these people. They're so unapologetic about it. They genuinely believe that they are on the path to sainthood doing this stuff that they don't care who sees that they're doing it. It's not even like a secret anymore. They're not hiding their faces, they're not wearing ski masks and all the blow up antifa costumes like they used to be in Portland or Seattle. 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So this is a subject I'm really, really passionate about, and I am blown away at the impact that crowd health is having this open enrollment season. You can take your power back. Join Crowd Health to get started today for $99 for your first three months, using code ISABELLE@Join Crowd Health.com. again, that is Join Crowd Health.com using the code ISABEL for that discount. Just a disclaimer. Crowd health is not insurance. It is in lieu of insurance. You can opt out and take your power back. This is how we win one more time. That is join CrowdHealth.com code Isabel. And there's another clip that kind of ties into this that happened over the weekend in Minneapolis. One of these ICE officers rolls down his window and starts communicating with one of these wine mom protesters. God, I cannot stand the freaking wine moms and their allegiance to some of all this insanity. He tells them, do you guys even know what you're protesting? Like, genuinely why I am here as an ICE officer is to arrest child sex offenders. That's literally why I'm here. I'm after one specific person who is a convicted child sex offender to remove him from society and deport him out of our country so that he is not threatening your children and. And your grandchildren. That's who you guys are protecting. Listen to this reporting. We're here to arrest a child sex offender, and you guys are out here honking. No, we're press. That vehicle right there is honking and impeding our investigations while we're trying to arrest a child sex offender. That's who you guys are protecting. Insane. That's what we're doing. Insane is right. And then you have people screaming at him to move his car. Get out of the way. We're protesting you. We're here to protest you. He's like, yeah, no, crap, you're here to protest me. But what you're actually protesting is to keep convicted child sex offenders in your suburban neighborhoods. All I kept thinking about over the weekend is how I met your mother, which I know sounds silly, but I'll connect the dots, I promise, because it's one of my favorite TV shows. Sadly, despite how it ended, justice for Tracy. Different conversation for a different time. Does no one remember how Marshall Erickson was like the poster child of Minnesota in this show? And the the running gag throughout the entire show is that Minnesota is so polite, out of their way, nice, white, Midwestern polite people who are the nicest people on the planet that to a fault, Marshall would get himself in bad situations because he was so nice to people. Being from St. Cloud, Minnesota, once he helped robbers rob somebody's apartment in New York City because he thought he was helping them move. Or he like loans money to all the homeless people in New York because he feels bad for them and he's genuinely trying to help people. He just has this huge heart and is so empathetic and is so nice. Lily, his wife ends up saying at one point from St. Cloud, Minnesota, Marshall's high school mascot was a hug, which is so cute, right? And so cliche as to what we generally associate with the nice, polite Midwestern attitude that has been completely hijacked and completely taken over by the radical left to turn that into toxic suicidal empathy that now those same people whose high school mascot was a hug and who would regularly go out of their way to help people actually think have been actually gaslit into believing that they are a good person, they are a better person than everybody else in society worthy of bragging about it on Facebook if they are impeding ICE officers from deporting convicted child rapists, convicted child sex offenders, and especially this week, as we start transitioning into the latter half of the week where we're going to be talking a whole lot more about abortion. With the March for Life happening on Friday, my mind also continued over the last few days to drift to the pro life actually peaceful protesters who over the last several years have been jailed, thrown in prison, violently prosecuted by our government for silently or quietly praying outside of abortion facilities over the past few years, especially under the tyrant behavior of President Joe Biden and the Biden doj who weaponized specifically one federal statute, the FACE act, to go after pro lifers who stand outside of abortion facilities and hand out resources saying there is an opportunity to reverse taking the abortion pill, or who hand you a rosary and say take this, it might make your life so much better. And I am praying for you people who are silently praying or quietly praying gathering outside of abortion facilities have literally been thrown in prison by the Biden DOJ for disrupting the peace in society. But that same piece of legislation allegedly is also supposed to protect houses of worship and churches. And now you're seeing this behavior happen and not a peep, not a peep from Joe Biden, not a peep from Kamala Harris, not a peep from any Democrat member of Congress, not a single member of the Biden doj. No one in the mainstream media is like, hey, remember the Face act that we've been so ridiculously politically obsessed with for the past few years, Especially this week when we're going to be talking a whole lot more about abortion. No one has anything to say about the Face Act. No one on the left, I should say, being used to protect houses of worship. And people are starting to put two and two together here saying there's a really weird double standard happening right now in our American justice system, actually creating two tiers of justice for what is politically expedient versus what is actually morally right. Tony x2 tweeted this. So you're telling me that you can't pray in front of an abortion clinic without going to prison, but you can storm into some churches and shut down their services scot free? Read that again. Someone else also found a clip from a few years ago of pro lifers who were quietly praying at an abortion clinic in the hallway of the building in which this abortion clinic is housed. Reminder that Biden's Department of Justice threw these pro life Christians in prison. And these are just a few of the many who were thrown in prison over the past few years under federal statutes like the Face act for disrupting the peace and how this isn't actually covered under the first Amendment. O glory be to Christ our King O glory be to Christ. All Glory be to Christ. Singing beautifully, quietly, peacefully in a hallway lands you a federal prison sentence. But disrupting those who are freely worshiping Christ in a supposedly Christian country and a free society. Nothing. Not a peep. Not a single prominent left wing individual in this country saying a word. In fact, to the contrary. Look at Don Lemon tripling, quadrupling, quintupling down on this behavior and upholding it as actual empathy, which is insane. It's interesting to think about, by the way, the fact that the Face act was originally intended to go after pro lifers and that was the the original reason for this law being introduced as a bill in Congress. Of course, politically you need to make some concessions here and there. So the only way that this was actually able to be passed is if they also included that it protects people's houses of worship, which seems so unrelated to one another, until you realize that abortion actually is a theology. To many of these people, their religion and their worship just happens to be child sacrifice instead of the sacrifice of the Eucharist. But it's fascinating how those two things alone got thrown into this particular law and now represent such a powerful double standard in our society. But it's becoming so abundantly clear to me, and I hope it is to you as well, that this is point blank a problem of virtue and it is a problem of religion in society. It has never been more obvious to me that without Jesus Christ we lack a common moral code for society, period, full stop. And there is a reason that we see the people who are attempting to foment chaos and foment violence and create division in our society consistently are going to after churches. It might seem initially unrelated when you think about during the BLM Summer of Love, mostly peaceful protests happening all over the country, that St. John's Church here in D.C. was targeted with arson, was burned down by these insane radical protesters, or the mass shooting that we just saw at Annunciation Catholic School in Michigan, specifically targeting Catholic school children, which we now know is inherently reality, based on the manifesto from the trans shooter behind all of the violence. These things might seem unrelated or disconnected or part of different problems happening in society. But this, the targeting of a church to what protest? Ice, to give the middle finger, metaphorically to Donald Trump, to just create chaos for the sake of creating chaos. This is no different. It doesn't matter what issue they're protesting or what the mainstream political problem of the day is. The only thing that matters, the only thing is that the issue they are protesting, whatever that issue be, transgenderism, blm, anti ice, whatever, is more important. It matters more than our common shared humanity that is rooted in Christ. Whether the ism is climate alarmism or racism or sexism, you name it, all of the isms are a theology and they're all wrong, except Catholicism, of course. But, you know, that's just my prerogative. All of the isms are a theology. And I think that's the mentality that we have to start wrapping our head around here is that the religious level of fanaticism that we are seeing from these people is only that way because they treat reverence for this type of behavior as comparable to reverence for Christ. And when we are intentionally removing Jesus from society and we're saying we are not a Christian country. We do not have a common, shared faith. We are not one nation under God. We have stripped away the basic foundation, foundation of a shared moral code, which is why these people actually believe they are being good people. It is inherently creating an idol out of your new theology that is always, always, always rooted in the replacement of our submission to God and our common, shared humanity as made in his image with whatever the latest fad is that elevates the God of self. Because ultimately you're saying my race is more important than my common, shared humanity. My sex is more important than my common shared humanity. The planet is more important than my common, shared humanity. X, Y, Z. And what's really scary is that these people don't actually care at this point. We've seen this escalate over the last few years. They don't care about what the consequences are anymore. They don't care about the damage that it inflicts on other people. Because again, they're the good guys. Anyone who remotely counters their narrative or doesn't embrace the same level of fanaticism as them is a bad guy. All of this got started at this particular church over the weekend when people began doxxing. One of the pastors of this church, and I don't actually know if he is indeed an ICE officer or the lead agent of the local ICE agency in the St. Paul area, the Twin Cities region. I don't know. The mainstream media doesn't seem to know. I think all of that will come to fruition in the next few days. But posts like this one have been going incredibly viral over the past few days from activists. This particular person, Blazin Batty, is just a pharmacy technician or a pharmacy tech probably in Minnesota, who tweeted David Easterwood with a picture of him is one of the pastors at City's Church, a Christian church based in the Twin Cities region. He is listed among the pastoral leadership on the church's official leadership page. David Easterwood is serving in a leadership role with the local ICE agency in Minnesota. He's the Acting Field Office Director for Enforcement and Removal operations for the U.S. immigration and Customs Enforcement in St. Paul, Minnesota, which means he oversees ICE enforcement activity in Minnesota and the surrounding states. You don't get to preach Christianity on Sunday and help terrorize immigrant communities Monday through Saturday without people questioning your morals. Faith that excuses cruelty, fear and state violence isn't faith, it's branding. What do you think the intention of a tweet like that actually is? To raise awareness? I don't think so. And it's not even just about this pastor anymore. You saw in those clips, proudly put out by those protesting a church service, how they treated the congregants in the audience. They don't care what the impact is anymore. The more crazy, the more viral, the more outrageous the outcome of these stunts, the better, actually. And I have a very sinking feeling that this isn't going to be the last time that churches are targeted over this stuff. Even if the church itself, the congregation, the denomination, or just Christianity has anything to do with the thing that you are actually talking about more often than not, I doubt that it does, but again, always stems from these other isms becoming your theology instead of your faith in God. Matt Van Swell, who has been doing amazing work by the way, tweeted out a few days ago about his experience dealing with all of these leftist protesters. As a former leftist himself, and he said this I'm always saddened when people ask me where I go to church because I know I can't tell them the church and congregation would be targeted by the left like this, like what we just saw in Minneapolis, and it wouldn't be fair to them. If you are barging into churches screaming at people, you are not the good guy. He's right, tragically. And I shudder to think about how many other congregations are going to be targeted because a certain Congressman happens to go there and they don't like the fact that he's a Republican or they're largely pro life. My church, my beautiful parish that I go to here in the D.C. area is incredibly rooted in our Catholic faith and prayed multiple times during Mass over the weekend about the March for Life happening on Friday? That our country embrace a culture of life and find common dignity in all humanity created in the image of God. How long until radical pro abortion protesters start infiltrating churches and attacking pro life congregants at Catholic parishes around the country? I think this is going to be a whole lot more normal and it certainly isn't going away in pop culture or the mainstream conversation anytime soon. Nicki Minaj herself is even starting to weigh in on all of this, regardless of whether you agree with her or not, tweeted this Don Lemon is disgusting. How dare you. I want that thug in jail. You. He would never do that to any other religion. Lock him up. All in caps with a whole lot of exclamation points. So I'm anxious to see what church looks like this Sunday. Interestingly, how the government is responding is one totally rooted in reality, and I am incredibly grateful for how the DOJ is going after this thing. As of yesterday, the DOJ said that they will be going after these protesters and Don Lemon specifically with the fullest extent, extent of the law. Pam Bondi tweeted this yesterday. I just spoke to the pastor in Minnesota whose church was targeted. Attacks against law enforcement and the intimidation of Christians are being met with the full force of federal law. If state leaders refuse to act responsibly to prevent lawlessness, the Department of Justice will remain mobilized to prosecute federal crimes and ensure that the rule of law prevails. And don't we love a good bit of irony. Harmeet Dhillon, the Assistant Attorney General, joined the Benny Johnson show yesterday. I think it's just. It's called Benny, actually. But joined Benny Johnson on his show to announce that they would be prosecuting Don Lemon in some capacity under federal law, more likely than not under the Ku Klux Klan act, which is just poetic justice if I've ever heard it myself. Take a listen to this.

[Harmeet Dhillon]

We will pursue charges in this case. I see, I see various crimes that have occurred. Exactly what they are, I'm not going to flag, but the Face act has been mentioned as one of the predicates there. In other cases, the Biden DOJ used the Klan act conspiracy charges tacked onto the Face act in the case of protests outside abortion clinics to bring much longer sentences. So the Klan act is a law that makes it illegal to terrorize citizens to violate their civil rights, to get together and conspire to violate the civil rights. It is often used against law enforcement, but is now used against others as well. So whenever anyone conspires to violate the protected civil rights of American citizens, the Klan act can be used to bring a conspiracy charge. We in the federal law enforcement Parlance Call this 241 and 242 civil and criminal conspiracies. And so what the Biden administration did is if three grandmas got together to pray outside an abortion clinic for the souls of the people inside and including unborn children, they would say, oh, that's not just a violation of the Klan act. That's a conspiracy to violate the civil rights of women going in there to get abortions. And so we're going to add additional charges and punish that more and make it from a misdemeanor under the Face act to a felony under the Klan Act.

[Isabelle Brown]

Switching gears a bit to our next topic, I want to round out this one by saying this. Greg Price summed up this problem that we're seeing in Minnesota. So So beautifully. And I want this to reign true for anyone who might be watching the show today. Whether you liked what happened over the weekend or you didn't like what happened over the weekend, and you have a really big problem with it. He tweeted this. I'm no historian, but I don't think there has ever been a situation in the last 100 years where the people storming the churches were the good guys. Think about that for a few minutes and do a little bit of research as to all of the times that radical, insane protesters or government regimes went after the churches. There was usually a specific reason for that. And I think all of it is rooted in the fact that our Christian faith, our identity in Christ, our ability to submit everything we have to something bigger than us, which is what our faith is all about, right? Regularly saying, less of me, God, more of you. I am broken without you. I am in desperate need as a broken, evil sinner of your sanctifying grace. That represents such a threat to people who want their ism to be the biggest issue in society. Because all of a sudden, when we can submit humanity to something bigger than ourselves, we realize that our problems are all solved and through the sanctifying grace of Christ. And when we remove that conversation from society, it is a huge threat to those attempting to seek power for their political narrative of the day. Crazy stuff. And wildly controversial, but not quite as controversial as another Christian story we saw break over the weekend that's rolling some heads, especially in the Twitter sphere. So let's switch gears a little bit in Jerusalem. The patriarchs and heads of the churches in Jerusalem, which represent generally the more traditional liturgies of the faith, put out a joint statement over the weekend related to Christian Zionism. And this has a whole lot of people really, really, really upset. So I thought it was important for us to spend a few minutes and try to unpack some of this together for clarification, because I know there's some confusion on social media. This is not a fake letter. It has slightly different letterhead than what you've previously seen, maybe from some other statements put out by the patriarchs and the heads of churches in the Holy Land. But if you go to their website, their direct website, they published this on the 18th, so over the weekend as a joint statement from all of the patriarchs and the heads of the churches in Jerusalem about unity and representation of Christian communities in the Holy Land. Now, before I read you the actual statement, because I think it's interesting, I want to tell you all of the people that have signed on to this letter. We're talking the Greek Orthodox Patriarch, the Latin Patriarch, the Armenian Patriarch, the Franciscan Custody of the Holy Land, the Coptic Christian Orthodox Patriarch, the Syrian Orthodox Patriarch, the Ethiopian Orthodox Patriarch, the Maronite Patriarchal Extracate, the Greek Melkite Catholic Patriarch, the Syrian Catholic Patriarch, the Armenian Catholic Patriarch, the Anglican Episcopal Church in Jerusalem, and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land. So a wide swath of multiple denominations of Christianity, but generally the more traditional liturgies of Orthodoxy and Catholicism, as well as Anglican and the Lutheran Church as well, all signed on together to have a joint letter put out to the world about some concerns they have about the political narrative surrounding Christianity in the Holy Land and what theologically their role of pastoral care for Christians in the Holy Land looks like. Here's what they had to say again, published on their website on the 18th, but this letter was written on the 17th the Patriarchs and heads of churches in the Holy Land affirm before the faithful and before the world that the flock of Christ in this land is entrusted to the apostolic churches by Christ by the way, which have borne their sacred ministry across centuries with steadfast devotion. Recent activities undertaken by local individuals who advance damaging ideologies such as Christian Zionism spicy mislead the public so confusion and harm the unity of our flock. These undertakings have found favor among certain political actors in Israel and beyond who seek to push a political agenda which may harm the Christian presence in the Holy Land and the wider Middle East. Holy Scripture teaches us that we, though many, are one body in Christ in and individually members of one another. In Romans 12:5. To claim authority outside the communion of the Church is to wound the unity of the faithful and burden the pastoral mission entrusted to the historic churches in the very land where our Lord lived, taught, suffered and rose from the debt. The patriarchs and the heads of churches further note with concern that these individuals have been welcomed at official levels, both locally and internationally. Such actions constitute interference in the internal life of the churches and and disregard the pastoral responsibility vested in the patriarchs and heads of churches in Jerusalem. The patriarchs and heads of churches in Jerusalem reiterate that they alone represent the churches and their flock in matters pertaining to Christian religious, communal and pastoral life in the Holy Land. May the Lord, who is the shepherd and Guardian of souls, grant wisdom for the protection of his people and the safeguarding of his witness in this sacred land. Signed the Patriarchs and heads of the Churches in Jerusalem. Basically a beautiful, much more theological and academic way of saying at A whole bunch of politicians in the Middle east, in the United States, in Europe, pretty much everywhere. You do not speak for the church. The church speaks for the church. And we're just gonna like, toss out there a little reminder of what theology has said for the last several hundred years that we still subscribe to. That is not a political statement, but is just theology. This ruffled a whole lot of feathers and people were really upset by this, especially after certain people in politics began sharing this letter over the weekend on X. Specifically, you saw a lot of podcasters sharing it, weighing in with their two cents. Some leadership at the Heritage foundation shared this letter, and that caused a whole stir here in Washington, D.C. but I thought Michael Knowles had a really great take about all of this. That was very nuanced, very balanced. I thought it was beautifully said. He said, worth noting. This has always been the Catholic view. In 1985, the Vatican said the existence of the state and of Israel and its political options should be envisaged not in a perspective which is in itself religious, but in their reference to the common principles of international law. In other words, the idea, the concept of Zionism is not really in line with the theology of the Church. That said, you can politically, from a secular perspective, support the state of Israel for all of the reasons out there related to common principles of international law. That upset a whole lot of people. And everyone is speculating whether there's some sort of internal civil war happening now at the Daily Wire this week. If there is, unbeknownst to me, AKA there's not like, we're all fine. We're all doing great, actually. But an extra layer was added on here when Matt Frad, coincidentally was talking about Christian Zionism with his show Pints with Aquinas yesterday with an amazing guest who on social media goes by the handle the Jewish Catholic. Really interesting guy. I happened to meet him in Rome about six months ago when we were there to meet the Pope for the very first ever Catholic Creator Conference held by the Vatican, which was absolutely amazing. But I wanted to unpack this a little bit more with Michael Knowles as to the political side of this conversation and the theological one, because you might not have your mind made up about the issue of Zionism from a theological perspective or a political perspective you might be wrestling with. Well, yeah, I support the right of Israel to exist, and I support some of their ideas, but I don't really like some of the other things that they've done, and I just don't know what I'm allowed to believe now. Because this is so such a powder keg issue that the moment anyone opens their mouth remotely on this subject, I'm going to be canceled every which way from Sunday. When in reality, it is so much more nuanced than that. This is one of the most nuanced conversations in the history of the world, actually. I don't even think it's exaggeratory or hyperbolic to say that. So to welcome in the man who broke the Internet a bit himself and has a whole lot of people speculating as to what's happening behind the scenes at the Daily Wire. Uh, Michael Knowles joins us today on the show to talk about Christian Zionism. Why the Catholic Church doesn't really believe in it as a theology and what that means for support of the state of Israel. Michael Knowles, host of the Michael Knowles show, joins us today on our show, the Isabel Brown Show. Two of our amazing Catholics here in the Daily Wire building on the same show. Michael, thanks for taking time out of your afternoon.

[Michael Knowles]

It's wonderful to be with you, my dear. And also, I'm marveling at how comfy your set looks. My set is. I love my set. It relaxes me. It's like a monastery or a cigar lounge. But yours looks very comfy and cozy, and I have envy.

[Isabelle Brown]

It is. It is indeed, in the basement of my house. So I curl up with my coffee every afternoon. We talk about all the fun things, and then I go upstairs to play with my baby, which is very fun. So it is indeed very comfy, cozy. Michael, you kind of broke the Internet yesterday, and there's a lot of people talking about your episode of the Michael Null show from Monday, kicking off a crazy week, specifically talking about this letter that came out from Jerusalem over the weekend from the patriarchs and the heads of the churches in the Holy Land denouncing Christian Zionism as bad theology. Specifically, walk us through why people are mad at you and what the heck you had to say yesterday.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, I didn't. I didn't start it, actually. The group that started it, where it was the group of patriarchs and heads of churches in Jerusalem, and they published this document and they said there are some individuals who are creating dissent and confusion and scandal because they are promoting all sorts of unhelpful ideologies, including Christian Zionism. And they don't speak for Christians in the Holy Land. They don't speak for the apostolic churches. And so you basically pay them no heed. Now, when I say that they started this controversy, I wanna point out nothing in that document is new. There is no change whatsoever. This is what the Church has always taught. And specifically when we're talking about the Latin, not just the Latin, the Patriarchs and the heads of churches in Jerusalem, we're talking about the Latin Patriarch who is the Catholic Cardinal Pizzabala. But we're also talking about the heads of the Greek Orthodox, the Syriac Church, the Armenian Church. There are lots of other churches as well. And they all agree with this because this has always been Christian teaching. So I just tried to shed a little clarity here because I noticed when it comes to religious matters, especially as regards the Catholic Church, there's a lot of confusion. Sometimes I'm confused. You know, it's a 2000 year old institution, so there are a lot of questions to be raised. But some people suggested that this was anti Semitic or new or necessarily anti Israel. None of that is true. And so the Vatican reiterated its teaching on this matter in 1985 in a document on how to present the Jews and the state of Israel in catechesis and Catholic teaching. And the point it made is, look, the Jews are great. You know, they've been. They got kicked out of the holy land in 70 AD, but they didn't disappear as a nation, they remained a nation. In the Diaspora they were visible. They often presented a heroic witness, you know, to faith. And so they've come all around and now they're back because of the State of Israel, which you can support if you want to support the State of Israel, but you should not do so on religious grounds. You should do so referring to the principles of international law or your particular affinity for that state. And so there are two separate concepts that people confuse. There is Zionism and there is support for the state of Israel. Support for the state of Israel is just like I support the state of Italy. Well, frankly, I don't even really think Israel's a real country. But that's a topic for another time. You know, it's saying I support this state to exist or to be our ally or whatever. Zionism is an historical and theological ideology which says alternately that the Jewish people by right of a promise from God, have the right to the Holy Land ever and eternal, which Christians reject because Christians view the Church as the new Israel, the spiritual Israel, Christ as the new Covenant. And it's not to say we spurn the Jews, but it's to say that we view Christianity as the fulfillment of the promises that God made to Abraham. So you don't need to give away this plot of sacred land to one nation or another. There is also the national argument. And so this can be made in a secular way, as the founding of Israel was secular, which is to say, well, the Jews were here a long time ago and then they got booted out by the Romans and then the Muslims came in and took over and. And they've kind of held the territory for a long time. Crusaders had it for a little bit, but we didn't make it that long. And so anyway, now in the 20th century, the Jews get to come back because they used to be here a long time ago. That also is not persuasive because if we believe that argument, we would give Mount Rushmore back to the Lakota Sioux. Just because a people were in a territory some time ago doesn't mean they're entitled to that territory now. And so I think this is actually helpful that the Latin heads of the churches and the patriarchs have pointed out that this ideology which people increasingly have been promoting is relatively new. Christian Zionism comes about in really the 19th century. It's based on a reading of the end times that the Catholic Church and other apostolic historical Christian churches just don't buy into. It's not part of our theology. And you can support Israel without believing in all of that. And I say this as someone who broadly supports Israel. Cause I prefer it to the alternatives in the region today. And I'm very philosemitic.

[Isabelle Brown]

You should, frankly.

[Michael Knowles]

You know, I was saying, I was thinking about this the other day. You know, I'm very philosemitic. I really like the Jews. I grew up in New York. Maybe that's part of it. But if you offered me, Michael, you get to sit down and eat a pastrami sandwich with the kind of people who make pastrami sandwiches or you get to eat shawarma with the kind of people who make shawarma. 999 times out of 1000, I'm going for the pastrami sandwich. There's more cultural basis and commonality. And anyway, I say this as someone who really, at a time of rising anti Semitism, I don't have an iota of that, but Zionism as an ideology is just not. It's not very persuasive, I think. And so even more broadly, I think that rather than try to condemn the patriarchs as anti Semitic or whatever nonsense, frankly, I think it really behooves the state of Israel to give Christians an alternative to this very particular 19th century heresy, certainly in my view, for supporting this nation state over say, Hamas.

[Isabelle Brown]

Back to our episode in just a moment. But first The American Dream has always been about building something of your own. A legacy, taking an idea, some hard work and turning it into a thriving business that you can call your own. For generations, entrepreneurship has been at the cornerstone of that dream. But getting started with your own business used to mean huge upfront costs, technical headaches and a mountain of obstacles before you could even begin to open your doors. That's exactly where our friends at Shopify come in. It's the tool that puts the American Dream within reach for anyone who is ready to chase it. Shopify is the commerce platform that's powering millions of businesses worldwide, including 10% of all U.S. e commerce and even our own daily wire shop. The best part is you don't need a web designer to get started. They have beautiful ready to go templates that match your brand right out of the box. Or if you need some extra help along the way, their AI tools can assist everyday tasks like enhancing your product images, writing product descriptions and generating discount codes. And if you're worried about your brand even just getting out there, Shopify makes it so simple to run email and social media campaigns that actually reach your potential customers. Plus, if you ever get stuck, their award winning 24. 7 customer support is always there to help you figure. Whatever you need to figure out this year you can turn your dreams into with Shopify and give them the best shot at success. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com/isabelle again go to shopify.com/isabel. No, I love that. And obviously we could get way into the weeds of the theology behind all of this. I know our friend Matt Frad, host Pints with Aquinas, did that yesterday. I don't think that was intentionally done. By the way, in the midst of this letter going out, that was a pre taped interview. So funny how that ends up happening that later on the show, but providential indeed. I I actually really want to dive in in our couple minutes with you to this more secular argument because I think the delineation between Zionism and the right of a homeland to a specific ethnic group, which is generally the definition historically of political Zionism, is so interesting when you compare it to what we're seeing in America over the last few years with the land grant acknowledgments on college campuses and the idea that we're all on stolen land and so no one is legitimately an American citizen. Obviously that's not true. We want a war of independence. There are 8 million different historical reasons from a secular perspective. America deserves to exist as a country. And similarly, you could say the same thing about Israel. They've won several wars of independence. They've been recognized under international law, if you believe in that sort of thing and subscribe to that sort of thing, if that's your cup of tea and 8 million other reasons as well. So can you just touch on that a little bit more? Because I think you articulate this so, so powerfully and very uniquely compared to other political commentators.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, thank you. That's very kind. Yes, I think this is the key. First of all, you just have to go back to the context of when the state of Israel was founded and even earlier, when this ideology of Zionism, not Christian Zionism, just regular old Zionism, came about. It comes about in the 19th century, not a mere coincidence that it comes about with the rise of other forms of nationalism, which you saw in the middle of the 19th century. So there's Italian nationalism in the Risorgimento, there's all sorts of nationalism, and there's Jewish nationalism in the form of Zionism. So there are all sorts of arguments to buttress that, be they divine promises or a kind of particular interpretation of scripture, or just to your point, the land acknowledgments. To say we were here a long time ago, I just don't find any of those things all that persuasive, whether we're talking about Jewish nationalism or Italian nationalism, for that matter. And so I think the better grounding for support or distaste, even for the state of Israel has to come on more solid footing and a reminder that Theodore Herzl, founder of Zionism, he did not envision a particularly religious state. He was really looking at a secular state. And so to me, as you mentioned, Isabel, let's say, what was going on in the land beforehand? Well, you had. The Ottoman Empire controlled it. And then after the First World War, that was over, the British inherit this territory as Mandatory Palestine, and the British, as the imperial power, make a promise to Jews, to Lord Balfour, to. To say, okay, you're gonna get some of this land as a fulfillment of your aspirations. Because the Jews now, for almost 2,000 years, have said at their Passover Seder, you know, next year in Jerusalem, and we long to return to the land of our forefathers. So we're gonna give you a little bit of it. It's very concrete. That's realpolitik. Then, after the Second World War, the United nations recognizes Israel's right to exist as a nation state. And then the state of Israel wins a war of conquest or a war of independence, depending on how you look at it. And what's delightful, I think, about, analyzing those features is that is exactly the grounds on which we would judge the legitimacy of any other state. Whether we're talking about a state in Central Europe or we're talking about a state in Latin America. Those are the bases that we would apply to everyone. And I think it would be fair to apply the same bases to the state of Israel. Unfortunately, I think some defenders of the state of Israel, they talk past the sale. They're trying to argue too much. And it does work when we're talking about Christian Zionism. I mean, that whole letter from the patriarchs came about because there was this one evangelical Protestant pastor who was going viral for his very particular support of the nation state of Israel. And I think it turned off a lot of Christians. And so if you were to double down on that, you might win over a subsection of evangelical Protestants, and. But you would turn off basically the rest of Christendom. And so, you know, even just as a practical matter for our friends of the ancient nomadic tribe, I don't think that's a very good thing to do. You know, prudentially, it's not very effective, and it's just not persuasive to the reason, especially as we move past these passions of the 19th and 20th centuries.

[Isabelle Brown]

I could spend like five hours talking to you about all of this, Michael, and we'll have to over dinner, obviously, and a cigar. But I do want to zoom in a little bit on the theology with you as well, because I find it really interesting. This letter went out over the weekend, and I don't know what your homily sounded like at Mass on Sunday, but ours was really interesting about what real worship actually is in the fulfillment of the Old Covenant in the New Covenant. And our priest talked beautifully about Jesus as the Lamb of God and what that means sacrificially, as we understand sacrifice to be worshiped in the Old Covenant. For ancient Judaism, at the time of Jesus, where worship was sacrifice of an animal, which was a huge deal in society, that was a really big placing of your trust in God and limiting of your own resources in an attempt to worship him in the temple. And I just thought it was really powerful to understand that. The more I've studied this as an adult and the more books I've read on it, the more I'm learning in my master's program in theology, the more I have such a beautiful appreciation for Judaism fulfilled in Christianity and fulfilled in Catholicism in particular, that we watch the continuation of sacrificial worship. We watch the continuation of sacred tradition as we saw it in the Old Covenant and now manifested in the New Covenant. It's just so, so powerful to see that direct line in history. And I think it's interesting that generally speaking, Christian Zionism tends to be a lot more popular in the evangelical and Protestant worldview side of things. You're certainly seeing that in a lot of the pushback to this letter from the patriarchs and the heads of churches and the more traditional Christian traditions that we see in the Middle East. Talk to me a little bit about that dichotomy and how we can encourage people that Judaism has been beautifully fulfilled in the Catholic Church.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes, well, you're right. Just as an historical matter of religion and theology, Christian Zionism is a Protestant thing. You know, it's a derivation of some of the theological innovations of John Nelson Darby and as popularized in the Scofield Bible in the 19th century, as I mentioned. So it's not really a Catholic thing. You can support the state of Israel. We've had diplomatic relations between the Vatican and the State of Israel since the early 90s just to recognize the political reality that this exists as a nation state. But it's more complex. It's worth pointing out the document I referenced earlier on how to view the state of Israel comes from 1985. That's 20 years after the Second Vatican Council. So this is not as some modern people who misunderstand the great Catholic faith and tradition. They seem to think that after Vatican II everything changed. That's not true. The liturgy was deformed. Unfortunately, we're working on restoring that. But that's not really true. You have to view the council as all councils through a hermeneutic of continuity. The church cannot contradict herself. And so what does the Church say in the Second Vatican Council? Says, hey look, we like the Jews. More importantly, God really likes the Jews. And you even see echoes of this in the church fathers, that at the time of the nativity of the Incarnation, the Passion and the Resurrection, you see a number of Jews convert. They believe in Christ and these are the early Christians. And you see some Jews don't convert and they persecute the early Christians. And you know, wasn't a great way to get started in inter religious relationships. But over time you see the church take on this role as recognizing a difference between Judaism and Christianity, but also taking on a role as kind of protecting Judaism. You know, they view the Jews as differently than they would view other religious groups, certainly the Muslims, who have been trying to take over our civilization for 1400 years. So it's this complex relationship that is, you know, particularly addressed most recently in the Second Vatican Council. But you see, as you just alluded to, Isabel, this fulfillment of the Old Testament. Because Christians read the Old Testament as a figure of the New Testament. So, you know, David is a figure of Christ, specifically Christ's kingly role. Moses is a figure of Christ. You see Jonah and the whale as a figure of the Resurrection. You see the Ark of the Covenant as a figure of Mary, the new Ark of the New Covenant Christ. And so we believe that to understand the Old Testament not merely on a literal or historical level, but in the spiritual sense, you have to read it in light of the New Testament and that the New Testament fulfills the Old Testament. So this is why Christ says, you know, I come not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Not a jot or tittle will disappear. Not until all is completed. So this is this wonderful thing. And that means we want the Jews to convert, obviously. You know, I have many, many Jewish friends and I would like for them to convert. Some of them have. But we also don't go out of our way to harass the Jews, which I think some people get the mistaken idea that that's some part of the Christian tradition. We're really not supposed to do that. The church fathers all the way up to guys like St. Thomas Aquinas Point out that, you know, there's actually something beautiful in the unfolding of Providence, that the Jews persist. You know, you don't really see a lot of Zoroastrians hanging around anymore. You don't see a lot of Hittites and Canaanites, you know, marching around. But the Jews as this kind of, I don't know, frozen in amber peoples exist even into modernity as this kind of memory of the particular people of God who are themselves a figure of God's plan of universal salvation, which is a beautiful thing. And you don't wanna take this to an illogical extreme to say that there's some people who don't need Christ or that Christ is the way, the truth and the life most of the time. Or that's. That's not what it means. But it does mean that there is this. How shall I say it? Layered understanding of Scripture and this. I mean, I wish we had much more time to talk about it, but this is really important. Basically, on the first page of the Summa Theologiae Saint Thomas Aquinas points out that when you're trying to interpret Scripture, there are multiple senses. And this he takes from Hugh of St. Victor, that there's the literal or historical sense, there is the figurative sense of Scripture as we were just talking about, there's the moral sense, and there's the anagogical sense, meaning what scripture means in light of eternity and the end of times. And so you have all of these layers. And Thomas Aquinas says something so beautiful, he says, look, when you're interpreting Scripture, words mean things. You know, words are just symbols and they mean things. But because the creation is authored by God, things mean things too. And so the way that we interpret this, and that is really what the, the people of Israel are. Is there this particular nation that reveals to us God's plan for all of the nations, all of that to say, I mean, the Internet controversy that comes about because of this document brings us down to maybe you like the state of Israel, maybe you don't like the state of Israel. I have plenty of criticisms of the state of Israel, though I prefer it to the alternatives. Whatever your view is though, you do not need to embrace a 19th century subsection of Protestant theology in order to have a nuanced opinion of the Middle East. It's always charming when these kinds of theological innovators, they say we have a brand new idea and we're gonna bring Christianity to this part of Christianity's been around there for about 2000 years and actually maybe we ought to have some humility started there. Yes, there's a great line. I always loved a good Clarihue poem. The poem is how odd of God to choose the Jews. And then there is a rejoinder to it which is, but not so odd as those who choose a Jewish God and spurn the Jews. You know, one can have a kind of a prudential, you know, accommodation via media.

[Isabelle Brown]

That middle ground is so important and just operating under the assumption that it's okay for multiple things to be true at the same time. Also, we seem to have lost that in the secular political worldview as well, more increasingly in the last few years than ever before in my lifetime. So last, last question for you is how we embrace this idea that multiple things can be true. J.D. vance articulates this very, very well. Our vice president, and I've seen him asked about this more frequently in the last few months than ever, ever before of any politician of why do you continue to support Israel if you're not really fully bought into to all of the things that some of your colleagues, especially in Capitol Hill, are saying. And he says, look, just one example is that the United States certainly has it in our best interest to have a diplomatic relationship with this country that's going out of their way to preserve Christian heritage sites. And we as a Christian nation want to go visit those things to understand our history and our heritage. And no one else in the Middle east is really doing that. So that's just one example of why our relationship with them might make sense. Can you give any words of encouragement or wisdom to our elected officials on the Hill and in the admin. How to embrace that middle way and to continue finding the truth in all of that?

[Michael Knowles]

Well, I don't need to give advice to the vice president. I think he said it beautifully. And this is one of my chief inducements to support the state of Israel. But what he's exemplifying is keeping it real practical. You know, my support, such as it is, of the state of Israel is not because of some theological belief or because of some historical ideology. You know, that's really akin to, I don't know, you know, indigenous American, you know, land acknowledgements. It's real practical. If the state of Israel were to disappear, then Iran, as of today, with the mullahs still in power, Iran would spread a lot of influence in the Middle East. At the very best, you'd have Palestinian Arab nationalism. That would not be conducive to the good of Christians in the area. I think is pretty clear. You look at what's happened to other holy sites going back to antiquity that were conquered by the Muslims. It hasn't turned out very well. You know, go take a walk in the Hagia Sophia. These days it's not so nice. And so I think rather than embrace what is, to my mind, an hysterical and indefensible theological and historical reading of Zionism, I would say if you wanna support the state of Israel, do so because it's the second best option. You know, we're not probably King Baldwin isn't coming back anytime soon, and so this is the second best. And what do we say about politics? Politics is the art of the possible, the art of inclusion and the art of the second best. That's it. Who would you rather have dinner with after you visit one of the holy sites? Would you rather the pastrami dinner or would you rather the shawarma dinner? I think that in one of those situations your interests are better likely to be preserved. Both your interests for the holy sites and also for your political Project. Who supports America more? I don't think it's all that. All that complicated.

[Isabelle Brown]

No. In fact, all I can think of when you ask that question is walking around Jerusalem and all of the markets where every stall is selling a T shirt saying, don't worry, America, Israel is behind you with fighter jets and tanks, which is hilarious. So there you go. May you have a wonderful pastrami sandwich for lunch today. And we may have to go get one together when I'm in Nashville in a couple of days.

[Michael Knowles]

They're not as good here as they are over in New York, or I assume I've never been to the state of Israel, but I bet they've got pretty good delis over there. But hey, listen, Nashville's second best, so we can get. We can have one here, too.

[Isabelle Brown]

The art of the second best. Michael Knowles. Keep ruffling feathers. Keep going out in pursuit of truth. And thank you so much for joining us today on the show.

[Michael Knowles]

Good to see you.

[Isabelle Brown]

Oh, isn't Michael just the best? I love Knowles for all of the reasons out there, you guys. I've always been a Michael Knowles, Stan, way before I worked at the Daily Wire. He's just one of the most level headed, kind, intelligent individuals I've ever met in my life. He is so, so, so smart. And I wish the world would listen to him a whole lot more, especially on these very, very tricky and nuanced subjects like Christian Zionism. I have to say, when he started talking on his show yesterday about this being tied to Native Americans, I thought that was so fascinating. It's something that's been rattling around in my head for the last couple of years because I certainly am not supportive of this idea that the land is just yours inherently. Based on who? The longest it took me back, though, to when my sister graduated from college when I was in college. And I know we're all talking about like 2016 and 2026 is the new 2016. In 2016, if I recall correctly, I was a campus tour guide for our admissions office. And the idea of land grant acknowledgments, or like we are unstolen land and this land has historically belonged to this tribe and this tribe and this tribe and we're so evil and. And now I'm going to say that out loud. But then I'm just going to go about my life and not actually change anything. That was not really a part of campus related conversation. By the time I graduated, it was becoming a little more popular, but it became huge, like the requirement, at least in Colorado and places throughout the west to start anything on a college campus. By the time my sister graduated from college a few years after me, and I will never forget, at the time, I was just dating my husband, Brock. He was just my boyfriend at the time. We'd been dating a little less than a year, I think, when we went to my sister's college graduation in May in Fort Collins, Colorado. We're both CSU Rams. And the minute we sat down for her graduation ceremony, they started on this land grant acknowledgment or land acknowledgment statement or whatever. That literally took like six, seven minutes. It was embarrassingly long. It was actually hilarious. And everyone in the crowd is like somberly shaking their head, yes, we are so evil. We white people are so evil for having taken the land from Native Americans. And my sweet husband, who grew up in Alabama and went to college in South Carolina is looking around like, what the actual F is going on here? Are you guys okay? Is everybody high? Like, what the hell is happening? And he starts to laugh and I had to smack him and my mom had to smack him because we didn't want to embarrass my sister on her graduation day. But he looked so, so, so confused. And I will never forget that moment. It immediately popped up in my head as soon as Michael was talking about this comparison on his show yesterday. And I hope as we resurrect 2016 as 2026, we can leave the land acknowledgments and all that crap in the past, we're. We're over that. Long gone are those days. I want to leave you with this on the show today. As I mentioned, Matt Fradd in his episode of Pints with Aquinas yesterday, yesterday coincidentally covered the subject of Christian Zionism. I don't think that was planned. I'm pretty sure all of his episodes are pre recorded. But don't take my word for it. He interviewed somebody by the name of the Jewish Catholic on social media. Somebody who I have really, really liked over the past few years. Just such an interesting person who I met in Rome, who I really enjoyed listening to his story and six months ago when we were just hanging out, talking at the Vatican, just such a fascinating person. Daniel Apollos lives in Japan, but joined Matt Frad in Nashville at Matt's new studio for Pints with Aquinas at our beautiful daily Wire studios in Nashville. They did an amazing job with his setup to talk about the fact that he feels more Jewish now as a Catholic than ever before in his Life. And they specifically dive into this issue of Christian Zionism. I thought this was a fake fascinating conversation and wanted to make sure that you guys had a chance to look at it too and hear for yourself what they're talking about over at Pints with Aquinas. And just as a reminder, Matt is part of our Daily Wire family now, which we are so, so excited about. So if you are ever wanting to watch his episodes, which are like three hours long, they're very long, but worth every second or my show or Michael Noel show and you don't want to deal with all of the ads, become a Daily Wire plus subscriber, please. You'll get no ads ever. And we all have exclusive content that only exists for our subscribers. We are also rolling out a new special feature just for our Daily Wire family here in the next couple of weeks, which I'm so excited to share with you a little bit more about in the future. But in the meantime, here's just a couple minutes of Matt Frad's conversation with Daniel, the Jewish Catholic on Pints with Aquinas from this week.

[Michael Knowles]

Tell me, what is Christian Zionism and why is it false? Why is it bad theology? I think a lot of Christians, even maybe Catholics, being influenced by our Protestant brothers and sisters who hold to this bad theology. We saw Ted Cruz got taken to task by Tucker about this. So I want you to answer that.

[Daniel Apollos]

Sure.

[Michael Knowles]

And then maybe talk to me about the era of dispensationalism.

[Daniel Apollos]

Right. I think this goes hand in hand with what we were just talking about, that whole anti Semitism. I feel that for a lot of Christians, because they want to avoid that label of an anti Semite, they go to the extreme of that means that the Jewish people are the special people of God, that, yeah, I'm a Christian, I'm also God's people, but they're also God's people. So God has these two people. This is in essence what this dispensationalism amounts to. It's basically the idea that there are essentially two peoples of God, the gentile crowd and the Jewish crowd, and that God works through these different epochs or breakdowns of time where there are specific missions and things that have to happen and there's an eschatology tied to it which leads all of this into things such as the rapture, the millennialism, where they believe that, you know, Christians will be raptured and then Christ will later on reveal himself to the Jewish people, the second people of God, and then bring them over also into the fold. Why this is wrong, it's because it's theological nonsense. It has never been the case that God has multiple people. It takes just a slight reading through scripture to understand that God has always had one people. Go back to the times of Moses, before Israel became Israel, the nation in the times of Moses. In the Exodus, we have the Hebrew people being freed from Pharaoh. But it's not just Hebrews. There are Egyptians coming along with the group. And you can assume also and deduct that there are people probably from other nations too, because Egypt was a hub, a universal place where people would come for commerce and different things. But a group, and the scriptures tell us plainly a mixed multitude came out. And these people were the same ones that made that covenant with God in which they declared that he will be our God and we will be his people. Not okay, now you have the Hebrew people that are God's people, now the Egyptians that are another separate people, and those other people from another nation, they're going to be. It was a one people thing under a covenant. So you see the same story happen throughout time. Take for example the story of Ruth, where we have her and Boaz, they get married. And she was a Moabite, she was not of the Hebrew stock. But what happens? She ends up coming into the faith. And this is actually where we get King David from, right? So we have Boaz, we have obedience, Jesse, and then we have King David from a Moabite. So what does that mean? It means that it's not necessarily about this physical lineage as much as it is being in covenant with God. It was the case then, it was also the case later on where we have the story of Mordecai and King Esther, where there were some people that when there was an edict proclaimed by the king, where the Jews could defend themselves now against those people that were trying to oppress them. And it says in the scripture that many people then declared themselves Jews. Now there's a debate about this. Whether it was a sincere conversion or if people were just politically and not aligning themselves with the Jews so that they wouldn't get killed or attacked or whatever. That's debatable. The point though is that converting or joining the people of God is not a new thing. This has been the case again since the times of Moses, throughout time until now. There are not two people of God. There is one people of God, and that is Israel. Who is Israel? Israel are whoever is in a proper covenant relationship with God. If you get to the time of Yeshua, Jesus, what does he do? He comes to institute the new and eternal covenant. Covenants are not new to us. We have them since Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, all of these. There's different covenants throughout time. But Christ comes to institute the new and eternal covenant throughout time. It has also been the case that you have the ability of rejecting a covenant and you are cut off from the people. How do you do that? You can just plainly reject it, or you could commit certain sins that would cut you off from being called the people of God. Israel. This is not new. This is in the Torah itself. It says that if you would do certain things like breaking the Shabbat and you were persistent in it, you would be cut off. You're no longer Israel. You could be a Benjamite, you could be even a Levite, you could be from different tribes, but you cease to be Israel if you're not in a proper covenant relationship with God. What does that mean for us nowadays? It means that to be Israel, you need to be in the new and eternal covenant. I, as a Jew, could be a Jew, but I would not be Israel unless I am in that proper covenant relationship with God. And this will hurt people and this will bother people because you have the state and you also have Jewish people that would always want to, you know, equate, I'm a Jew, I'm Israel. Unfortunately, that has never been the reality, and it's not the reality now. You need to be in a proper covenant relationship with God. So when we're talking about millennialism, we're talking about dispensationalism, we're talking about Christian Zionism, why it's wrong, it's because these ideas promote the concept of there being multiple peoples of God when it's not the case.

[Isabelle Brown]

Heavy episode today, and a long one as well, but so important that we talk about these issues and just remind ourselves that it's okay to, to have complicated conversations. Like it's okay for nuance to exist about the First Amendment and whether or not it's appropriate to interrupt people's church services. And it's okay to wrestle with really difficult subjects like Christian Zionism. The important thing is that we fight for these conversations to even exist in the first place, which we will always do here on the Isabel Brown Show. Today is the very first anniversary of the Trump 47 admin. I can't believe it's been a whole year, but at the same time I'm like, it's only only been a year. Like so much has happened in the last 365 days. I am spending a few hours down the street at the White House today talking with some of our cabinet officials about what to expect for the second year of the Trump Admin, which we will be bringing to you on the show tomorrow. I'm so excited for you guys to hear what they have to say and please pray for us and the show as we help to spread the word about those fighting the good fight to serve the American people day in and day out here in Washington D.C. we will be back for year two of the Trump Admin and so much more on the Isabel Brown show tomorrow. See you guys then.

[Michael Knowles]

What was it like, Marlon, to be alone with God? Is that who you think I was alone with?

[Don Lemon]

I knew your father.

[Daniel Apollos]

I am yet convinced that he was.

[Michael Knowles]

Not of this world. All men know of the great Taliesin. Who am I, father, that the gods should war for my soul?

[Isabelle Brown]

Princess Garrus, savior of our people.

[Michael Knowles]

I know what the bull God offered you. I was offered the same. And there is a new power at work in the world. I've seen it. A God who sacrifices what he loves for us.

[Harmeet Dhillon]

We are each given only one life.

[Michael Knowles]

Singer. No, we're given another.

[Isabelle Brown]

I learned of Yazu the Christ and.

[Michael Knowles]

I have become his follower.

[Isabelle Brown]

He's waiting on a miracle.

[Michael Knowles]

And I think you can give him one.

[Isabelle Brown]

Trust in Yezu. He is the only hope for men like us.

[Michael Knowles]

Fate of Britain never rests in the.

[Isabelle Brown]

Hands of the great life. Great light, great darkness. Such things mattered to me then.

[Michael Knowles]

What matters to you now, Mistress of lies, you, nephew.

[Isabelle Brown]

The sword of a high king. How many lives must be lost before you accept the power you were born to wield? So, clinging to the promises of a God who has abandoned you.

[Michael Knowles]

I cannot take up that sword again.

[Isabelle Brown]

You know what you must do.

[Don Lemon]

Great life.

[Isabelle Brown]

Forgive me.

[Michael Knowles]

The time has come to be reborn.

[Isabelle Brown]

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